This is just a general question to see what y'all would do in the same situation. My niece is five and a little insomniac. She's ALWAYS had trouble sleeping. I was the only one who could put her to sleep in just a few minutes (others it took hours even as a baby). She is a rocker when it comes to putting herself to sleep (literally rocks on her head). Daddy is a police officer and Mommy works for a loans agency. She has an older brother who is 7. Mommy gets to be home with them when they get up for school and come home. Daddy is there at night. They have tried everything to get her to sleep. They've tried puttiing her in her room and letting her cry it out or eventually zonk herself out. They've tried incentives and punishments. Neither worked. They've put on her cartoons or music as noise and that didn't help. She sleeps with a fan on (she loves to be cool while sleeping so she can bundle up nice and tight). She does have a night light. They've tried wearing her out by putting her in dance (she wanted to do it), swim lessons (again her choice and loves it). They've given her a routine (supper, bath, story, lay down at 7:30 with brother) and she does the routine, but doesn't wear down at all. She finally rocks herself to sleep between 1 and 6 in the morning. She is cranky in the morning, but goes to school and is up the rest of the night. No naps whatsoever. She hasn't taken naps since she was 2. There are no problems in the home. She's doing great in school. She plays well with her brother and her little friends. She doesn't take medicine very well (liquid or pill or even crushing the pill into apple sauce, etc). She is on a gluten free diet and is lactose intolerent. She doesn't like sweets (she will rarely touch a cookie or candy or soda). She drinks only water (she refuses to drink anything else except apple juice). They feel as if they've tried everything. I'm not sure what to suggest to them either. Anyone have any helpful suggestions?
I'm going to talk to my sister about it again. I live about 2.5 hours away from my brother and sister-in-law. They did talk to her pediatrician several times and he kept saying she'd out grow it. Well she hasn't since she was a baby so I'm not sure why he hasn't done anything for her since. I'll talk to them about seeing another pediatrician since they're around Kansas City. And when they would put her in her room to let her cry it out or zonk, it wasn't a punishment. It was more of a last resort as to nothing else was working. She was keeping her brother up by running around the house and being noisy so they put her in her room that was opposite of where her brother's room was. They didn't do it nightly, but once in a while that technique was used. But that melatonin in the drops sounds awesome. I'll have my sister talk to the pediatrician about that too. Thank you everyone who has helped!
1. She sounds like she could be on the spectrum. I advise a full evaluation. My ex's son had Asperger's and he really struggled with getting to sleep. He also rocked and had to be wrapped tight. This is very "aspie" behavior. As is all the extreme pickiness.
2. Melatonin. You can get it in drops. Put it in her water or apple juice and don't tell her it's there.
I have come back to this question a couple of times now and think I can answer with a couple of suggestions.
I found it hard to imagine punishing a 5 year old child for not being sleepy or letting them cry in their room for a lengthy period of time. Did they punish her as a baby for not going to sleep when they wanted her to go to sleep? Of course not. So why in the world would they assume she is just choosing, in a naughty way, to stay awake. Obviously her 7:30 bedtime is way too early. The fact that she's still awake at 1am and even up to 6am says this is biological and not emotional or a choice she has any control over. So the punishment has to stop.
To me it seems this is not a choice. Seriously, when you are tired can you make yourself stay away for hours and hours, hours and hours? Of course not, your body always wins out and you eventually pass out exhausted.
This child is not doing that in a normal way. She is most likely not producing melatonin or some other chemical that puts us to sleep normally. She needs to see a doc for this.
If this were my child I would have already had her to the doc. If that doc blew me off then I would find another until one listened.
Here are some links about the sleep/awake cycle our bodies go through. It may offer some insight as to what is going on with her body.
http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/sleep-topics/melat...
http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/tc/melatonin-overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin
This little child is unable to go to sleep on her own, her body is telling itself that it doesn't need it so she never feels sleepy. So by putting her down at 7:30pm they are basically setting themselves up for almost 10 hours of battle each night. A doc needs to do a sleep study on this child and they need to get her treated for this in a medical way so she can start having a better sleep/awake cycle.
Sleep study!!!
Time & past.
There are a lot of physiological things that can be going on (from mini seizures to heart rhythm issues to ... Well, like I said: Many. Which in med usually equals 80).
If NOTHING shows up physically... Then insomnia is a high predictor for 1 of several neurological disorders (giftedness, ADHD, ASD, SPD, etc.).
There is so much that could be causing this. This needs to be elevated to high priority with her pediatrician. If this were my child, she would have been to the pediatric sleep disorders unit at our local children's hospital (which happens to be Children's Hospital Boston, home of Dr. Ferber and Dr. Brazelton so we're a little spoiled) a year or two ago for a sleep evaluation. She could have a vitamin deficiency (like D), be deficient in melatonin, have sleep apnea, have GERD, have mini-seizures, etc. It is so not normal or healthy for this poor child to not be able to get the restorative rest that she needs for her body and brain to stay healthy and function well.
If your sister lives in the same area that you do, is a local resource:
http://www.freemanhealth.com/sleepdisorders
And one farther away, if she's closer to St. Louis:
http://www.stlouischildrens.org/our-services/sleep-diagno...
Please encourage your sister to have this treated as the major medical disorder that it is. Sleep is as important as food and air and five years is far too long for this to have gone on.
If she isn't tired at 7:30, the first thing to try is a later bedtime. Try 8:30 or even 9:00 and see how it goes. That might seem late for a 5 year old, but if she is able to fall asleep faster with a later bedtime rather than being up until the wee hours of the morning, then her overall sleep will be better.
Also try having no tv or other screen time (computers, tablets, phones) in the evening for 2 hours before bed. The light from screens interferes with the internal sleepy-time triggers.
It would also be a good idea to talk about this with her pediatrician and perhaps ask about a sleep clinic. Her insomnia sounds like more than a typical kid having sleep troubles, so there could very well be a medical issue that is contributing.
I saw melatonin mentioned below. My son takes it, but he has ADHD and his brain doesn't always produce enough. Melatonin can work wonders if the child actually needs it but don't give it to her without first seeing a doctor.
Even though you can buy it over-the-counter and it is 'natural' the fact is that it is a hormone. Unnecessary or overused melatonin can make sleep issues worse and cause problems with the brain's natural production.
Have you discussed this with your pediatrician?
Otherwise, would you consider trying melatonin? It is an all-natural sleep aid - give it about 30 minutes before bedtime and it might help her to relax enough to fall asleep. Do not let her watch any TV before bed - it can be too stimulating. No TV in the bedroom at all. Sometimes at bedtime my daughter is not totally ready for sleep either - I will let her read and look at books in her bed as long as she stays in bed and doesn't keep bugging us for anything. Usually within 15 minutes she's out like a light.
But maybe you should talk to her doctor, or see if there is a "sleep clinic" or sleep study for children that he/she knows of.
ETA: 7:30 seems really early for a 5 year old - our daughter is also 5 and she's usually in bed between 8 and 9.
I would talk to the pediatrician and see if there's something neurological going on.
I agree that melatonin can be helpful, however, it is a very powerful hormone and I would discuss this with a doctor before relying on it. Some children also have very, very strong reactions to it. I have three nephews who used it from time to time-- two of them can take it, the third has bad episodes of sleepwalking. I have also found that using melatonin give me cramps, and another post-menopausal friend said that using melatonin caused her period to return. All that to say, it's not a magic bullet, but something to be cautious in using.
Have they talked to their pediatrician? If not, they should. Melatonin can help, but you want to work with the pedi. Some people just don't produce as much of the sleep chemical their brain needs. Have them ask their pedi about it. And see what it is that YOU can do that they aren't doing re. getting her to sleep.
She needs to be outdoors and get some sunlight for at least 30 mins (sounds like she might need more than that though) in the morning and again in the afternoon and at least an hour before bedtime. People/kids who stay inside all the time can have trouble sleeping. Sunlight regulates the body clock and helps you go to sleep quicker and deeper.
Maybe a food allergy? My son had a milk allergy that kept him from sleeping. He was 8 , when we found it & I am certain that was the first time he slept through the night :)
7:30 is an appropriate bedtime for a 5 year old. but i can relate to this problem. at that age my daughter didn't sleep. no matter what time of the night i'd go and check on her she would be awake. she wasn't grumpy the next day, but had the under eye circles. she had difficulty staying concentrated in school but still did well. at age 6 i asked her pediatrician about it and he recommended melatonin, 1 hr before bedtime (her bedtime was always 7:30, and still is at 8 almost 9). melatonin worked wonders. i wasn't comfortable giving it to her but her life changed for the better. i gave her melatonin (not every night) for a year then i stopped. it seemed that being on melatonin for a year taught her body how to prepare for sleep. she now sleeps without taking it. she goes to bed at 7:30 and is up between 6:45 and 7 am.
Time to get her assessed.
Be referred to a Specialist.
Their Pediatrician does not seem to suggest anything, pertinent.
Just because a kid never seems to sleep, it doesn't mean they do not need, to sleep. It also means that they are sleep deprived. Continuously. Which, is a condition in itself and causes a myriad of health and mental and behavioral, problems. In children and in adults.
There is melatonin which many seem to try. I personally would not unless directed by a Physician.
There is also "Hylands Calms Forte- for kids."
There is also Chamomile tea, which in Europe is very commonly used.
There is also, calcium supplements with magnesium, which helps some. Its called 'Warm Milk' by Animal Parade. It is for kids.
ie: http://www.naturesplus.com/sourceoflife/products/productD...
And before bed, they should set the stage. Meaning, keeping all things in the house, calmed down. Dark. Leave only 1 light on. No electronics on etc. Some kids are very sensory sensitive. My daughter was when younger. A toilet flushing down the hall, would wake her. And some kids, just get affected by the vibes of others... ie: if others are tense or high strung, they get that way, too. Or cannot, keel down.
I would have them try melatonin like that others have said. It can help with sleep. But if that dosn't work or they don't want to try that they need to see her ped and see what is sugested. I personaly think that 730 is way too early to try to go to bed. Even if she's not going to sleep. She's not wond down enough from her day by then to go to bed. I would also tell them if rocking helps they need to rock her at night before bed. That seems to be what you say worked before.
I second the melatonin idea. I wish we didn't have to use it...it took awhile for me to even think about giving my child something to get him to sleep. At least one, if not two of my boys have high functioning Autism (one diagnosed, the other in the process)...and there are a few other things you mention in there that remind me of my boys. At the time I just thought it was 'quirky'...but I really wish we'd gotten intervention earlier. As far as 7:30 being a late bedtime....I don't know about you guys...but my 3 and 5 year old are generally in bed before that! I guess everybody is different ;)
