Age Appropriate Play

well, my girls are 11 and 9 they dress and undress the barbies all the time somethimes they leave the dolls naked for no other reason than they got bored with them before they re dressed the dolls. my girls have also known from day ONE no secrets!

First of all, I understand you needing some time for yourself plus it is good for your daughter to socialize. That being said, I guess if this was me I would put my baby monitor in the room where they were playing and listen in. This behavior does seem odd and the "secret play" thing kind of creeps me out. This may seem sneaky or paranoid, but you are concerned about your daughter's safety.

Hide a baby monitor in the room and peek in often. Go with your gut feeling.

That is a rather large age gap. When my son was 10, he would happily play with the neighboring 5/6 yr old during the summer. Only b/c he was the only boy in the neighborhood and they would play "explorer" or something outside.. digging in the dirt, marching around with backpacks "finding" treasure, stuff like that. Or play Wii at his house. We also have a daughter who is 3 yrs younger than our son, so he is accustomed to playing with younger kids. I wasn't completely happy with it, but they did play nicely a few occasions, and almost always group play with BOTH my kids involved (daughter was 7 at the time) it was ok. (I tried to limit it, just because I was worried my son would do things that the younger one couldn't keep up with and he might get hurt). They no longer live in our neighborhood, so it isn't an issue this summer.

But a 10 yr old and a 4 year old... there is SUCH a big gap in growth/development/maturity between 4 and 5/6... there really really is.

I would only allow it if they play in areas of the house that YOU can see them easily. If they play in her room, the door MUST be open at all times and you should be popping in OFTEN. Encourage them to drag a bin of things out into the family area of the house to play. I don't necessarily think that the clothes being removed is a BIG deal... but in conjunction with the "secret" play... that is very very bothersome.
Supervise, supervise, supervise.

First of all, trust your instincts.

I see nothing wrong with the naked dolls. My daughter (now 15) was not into Barbies as much as she was into Bratz.. Most of the time, they went back in the bin naked ready for the next time they were pulled out by girls.

Next, we have no secrets around here. I would start now with wide open communication with your daughter and make sure she knows she can come to you with anything. My daughter and I talk about everything and she knows we will not judged her by her feelings or opinions.

A 10 yr old is old enough to know that you do not keep secrets from parents. Also, lying is not tolerated around here. Maybe that is tolerated in her home, just make sure she knows to follow rules under YOUR roof. You are within all your rights to discuss this with the 10 yr old (and possibly include her mom) Yes, it is a help to you that she is around, maybe she can be a mom's helper and get a little $ IF she abides by your rules.

My daughter is an only child , well adjusted, far being non-social and would have horror if she thought for 1 minute she would have a sibling. There is a stigma regarding only children but that's just it....I know MANY only's who do not fit into the "sterotype" placed upon them.

Most of the time kids are begging to come here to get away from their own siblings, etc and have peace, play, food, etc. I have no problem with people being here because I am one of the moms who makes sure whatever they are doing is on the up and up. I don't snoop, I just check in every so often and say "how's it going".

You are right to have a red flag, especially at the "secret" remark.

Hang in there and good luck.

My daughter and her friends almost never put her Barbie's away clothed.
It never occured to me there was anything weird about it. She had so many dolls and so many outfits, my main rule was that they all had to be put back in the case she kept them in and not scattered all over the place. There's not a lot to see on a naked Barbie so I don't know that I would be concerned about that part.
My kids are 10 years apart so I always had kids of all ages at my house. We lived in plenty of places where there were literally only two families with kids in a neighborhood and kids will usually like to socialize with each other or just have somewhere to go for a visit. Looking back at my own personal experiences, I would have to say that an age gap itself was never really a concern.
You say that the girl lies though. And the whatever they play is a "secret" thing...I wouldn't like that either.
I was always a pretty blunt mom and it sounds like you have talked to your daughter about keeping secrets, etc. This is something ALL children need to learn and understand and it's never too young in my opinion.
Next time the girl comes over, I would just say that you want them playing in the living room (or wherever) and then you can non-chalantly keep an eye on them. I know other moms mentioned putting baby monitors in the bedroom, but I would be more proactive about it I think. At least so you can get a sense of how they interact, how they play with the dolls, if there is a lot of whispering going on, if the girl continuously wants to play in the bedroom even though you've said you want them playing where you can see them.
A). If nothing weird is going on, they will be happy playing wherever you tell them to play.
B). You won't have to wonder what's going on or worry about it because you will be supervising them.

If the older girl asks why they can't play in your daughter's room, you can simply tell her that you've noticed they like playing with the Barbies, but they have been getting put away without any outfits on. You want to be able to give a 5 minute countdown so the Barbies can be dressed before being put away and you're trying to teach your daughter to be responsible with them. Or, "I'd really like it if you girls sat at the table and drew pictures or played with crayons and coloring books today." (Or sat on the floor and did puzzles or played Candyland or whatever). If the 10 year old isn't into it, she'll likely go home. It's your house, your daughter is 4, and even though girls of all ages can enjoy Barbies, there are other things to do too.
I know it sounds mean, but there have been lots of kids that weren't allowed to play in my kids' rooms. Period. It's not because they were really bad kids or anything, but they would come over and want to drag everything out, but when it was time to put things away, they would just leave and leave the mess. I was up front with them. I told them they liked to play with my kids toys, but didn't like helping clean up, so they had a choice of playing with this OR that, at the table or wherever else I said, but NOT in the bedroom and if they didn't like it, they could just go home. Some moms would make their kids get their butts back over or tell them ahead of time, "You better help and make sure whatever gets played with is cleaned up"....other moms had the attitude that toys will be toys and they get scattered all over, no big deal. Those were the kids not allowed in my kids rooms. Or my house at all if they didn't want to go along with my program.
I've come across more than a few kids, I hate to say, that were just down right sneaky. Or they'd put my kids up to asking for things that I clearly had already said no to. Trust me, once a sneaky kid knows you're on to them, they either do every single thing you say to the letter because they know you're watching, or, they know they've been busted and they stay away.

Just be upfront and watchful. Lay out the rules ahead of time.
No playing in the bedroom.
No putting the dolls away without outfits on.
No leaving without all toys being put away.
No keeping secrets about what you play.

That way, your daughter understands your rules and so do other children who come to play.
There may or may not be anything bad going on, but the 10 year old is plenty capable of understanding your rules and if she doesn't like them, she doesn't have to come over. She can understand that you're trying to teach your 4 year old. My honest hope, is that she would be willing to help you out with that in a good way. She'll be old enough to babysit soon so it's very important that she is responsible and conducts herself properly around younger children.

I wouldn't assume anything horrible has happened. But they can't keep secrets in front of you.

Best wishes.

I would say that your daughter and friend need to play in the living room where they can be watched. Who else is in the neighbor for the kids to play with?

Take care
J.

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I like the baby monitor idea. I do not like that a 10 year old plays with a 4 year old. I would not be comfortable with that. Naked dolls are fine, my now older daughter left them naked. 10 is kind of old for barbie thou. We all become sneaky moms when something does not seem right with our kids. I had no problem finding out things. Your a good mom, I hope its nothing.

in school i remember learning sex ed in 5th grade... just so you know

Are they both girls? I have a 9 year old girl who likes to go play with our neighbor boy who is 5, but really b/c they are the only 2 kids on our street. When her friends around the corner are home (7 and 9), then she'd rather play with them. My daughter also likes to play with my 5 year old niece. No biggie. As far as the barbies, kids undress them. Also no biggie.
The lying is not okay, but you can address that. Kids are also sort of secretive about their "special" time. They've gained a little independence and enjoy having their own little life. As long as the older child understands what is and isn't okay to play with a 4 year old, I'd say you're fine.

I think having them play in a more "public" area of the house is a good idea. There were times when my daughter had naked Barbies and I think it was honestly just her not wanting to take the time to dress them before putting them away. But that combined with the "secret" would be a red flag for me too. We also have very few kids in our neighborhood, & none my daughter's age, so there are times when she plays with older or younger kids but they usually don't play for very long, if they're inside, because they run out of things that they have in common. They are more likely to all play together if they're outside (kickball, etc.) where the age doesn't matter as much. But if my daughter has the opportunity to play with a girl her own age from school, she will choose that over the younger neighbors in a minute. I have found that the only children or youngest children are much more tolerant of playing with little ones though. Hopefully this girl is just truly enjoying some time with a younger child that she doesn't get at home. Good Luck and I hope everything turns out OK.

Hard to say. I think I would keep a watchful eye out when the neighbor girl is around. It may be nothing, but then again.....it may not. The main thing that got my attention is the the "secret play". It could be just girls being girls, but I would want to know for certain.

I agree... I think a baby monitor or a nanny cam would be the most expedient way to figure out if what's going on is harmless good fun (10year old girls LOVE secrets... the same way younger boys do with the whole spy thing) or something to be concerned about.

I've noticed 4 groups of children ignore age gaps:

- Only Children (who long for siblings, so they're delighted to be with younger and older kids)

- Children from LARGE families (5+ kids, who are used to being around younger and older kids as a matter of course)

- Homeschool kids (who are used to interacting with kids and adults across the age spectrum, and think nothing of it... the same way I interact with people at work regardless of how young/old they are)

- Montessori / Multiple Age Classroom kids (again, like homeschoolers, these kids don't get the whole awe of older kids or degrading younger kids thing. Montessori kids in particular ignore the age gap, because in Montessori one of the jobs of older kids is to teach the younger ones. So a 6yo sitting with a 3yo counting beads -or naming plant parts/ or going over letters/ etc. is a super common thing)

- Preteen girls who are on their way to babysitting (blame hormones, a really "baby-kick" hits a lot of girls going through puberty... where they reeeally want to be taking care of younger children & babies. When I was growing up, age 10 was mommy's helper age, and 11-13 was babysitter age)

Sounds like your neighbor hit 2 out of these 4 categories (only child and preteen), and might hit 1 of the other 3. So I wouldn't be concerned off the top of my head... but a monitor or nannycam sounds like it would put your mind at ease, or answer your Q's the fastest. Since your instincts are pinging, *I* at least would want to check them out.

((PS... on the upside... at least she's a girl. I feel REALLY bad for my son who is almost 8. He *loves* little kids -only child, and homeschooler but used to be montessori. He'll happily spend an hour at the park with a 1-2 year old playing at their level, and cheering for their "victories"... or helping push the 3-4 year olds on the swing/ holding hands on the equipment when they're scared. He'd make the BEST big brother. But his days are numbered. Because he's a boy, he won't be allowed around little kids very very soon now. It breaks my heart, but some parents are already freaking out that he would want to play with their children.))