Alcoholic Family Member with Signs of Liver Cirrhosis

The only way you'll get info is if he gets confused and is unable to make his own medical decisions, which unfortunately might not be far off. Liver failure leads to hepatic encephalopathy causing lethargy and confusion.
He needs an intervention and a transplant. You can't get on the transplant list if you're a current drinker. You need to be sober for a year. His time is running out. Liver failure is brutal. You're in my thoughts and prayers.

I'm so sorry that you are facing this.... its a very difficult situation. My mother died from this. If you insist that he allow you (by signing documents) to speak to his Dr. that would be a very important first step. You need access to information that is not tainted by his interpretation of the facts. There may be ways in which your Mom enables him (thus her being easily fooled) the chances that she actually does not know what is going on are slim. She might be seeing hidden bottles, smelling his skin as he comes off a drinking binge, etc. SHe might actually know. Maybe she is trying to protect you.

He is an addict and he can't simply stop drinking. He needs to be in the hospital, with medical support for withdrawal. Many hospitals have units that supervise alcohol withdrawal and make it safer. I'm sure he WANTS to stop drinking on some level but has little control over it. In my mother's case, once the liver stops working blood can't pass through it. Pressure builds up and then there is a break in the portal artery that feeds the liver blood. That is a critical emergency and not easily survivable. He may be just weeks away from this event - his Dr. can tell you.

His being defensive and argumentative is part of his alcoholism and also his fear of dying. This is a COMPLEX dynamic that is years entrenched I would guess. I would not engage in that with him, I'd try to take control by demanding that he allow you access to his Dr. bypassing him and your Mom. DOn't argue or apply logic to him - just keep asking for him to allow you to speak to the Dr. so you can understand the options and help him make the best decisions possible.

I am so sorry you are facing this. It is painful and stressful. Please keep in mind that you have no control here, and no responsibility. Take good care of yourself and deal with the emotions involved - I had lots of feelings about my mother not wanting to be healthy and stay in my life... etc. It's hard.

Best of luck to you all.

I don't think there is any way to legally get his information without his permission. Your mom could insist on going to his next appointment, which is what I would do.

It is very frustrating when a family member doesn't properly take care of themselves. My grandmother was diagnosed with emphysema a few years ago and refuses to accept it. She tells everyone she has asthma, and "secretly" smokes in her bathroom. (I say secretly b/c it's the only room in the house without a window and every surface is soot covered. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do since your dad is a grown up accept worry and hope for the best. It sounds like pushing it will alienate him.

My dad was/is an alcoholic, too, and I've also worked in addiction rehab as therapist. I can understand the trepidation of confronting him directly about his problem and his health (e.g., your plan to call his doctor about his condition to find out about his prognosis rather than address him directly). Having said that, I think your only options are 1) to continue letting him play your family so he can continue doing as he likes, thus likely leading to a premature, unpleasant death, or 2) confronting him as a family, doing a serious intervention to try to help him get healthy.

That being said, even if you choose option 2, you cannot make him do anything. It's his choice. So you have to choose consequences for him refusing to address his drinking and health problems that will make it very difficult for him to go that route. And let me honest with you, even if you go option 2, that's no easy road -- even if he quits drinking, he probably will not suddenly recover (physically or psychologically) and be the Old Dad everyone wants him to be. There's a reason he drinks, and he has to find a way to cope with that without using alcohol or anything else that hurts him. The fact that he's likely now got a liver condition is not going to make life any easier for him to deal with than when he started drinking. He will need a lot of support from people he feels he can trust, but who will also hold him accountable for his behavior.

If you do an intervention, prepare yourselves as a family (however that's defined--including friends and other important people in your dad's life), and be united in your approach. Remind him and yourselves that you are doing this because you love him, and not to punish him. A good interventionist will help you all find ways to express this to him effectively.

Good luck, I know it's a really difficult place to be in.

Hi H.,

Most medical professionals are not able to provide personal information to family members unless the individual being treated signed a release which sounds unlikely in your father's case. It might be possible for your mother (his next of kin and likely emergency contact on medical forms) to call and at the very least inform the office of your father's lack of communication regarding his medical prognosis. The doctor can then decide whether or not s/he will speak with your mom and/or whether s/he will speak with your father about maybe sharing some information. Patient rights are strictly protected so if the doctor does share information and your father gets upset he could sue them for the disclosure--translation unlikely they will tell you anything. However, if you and/or your mother suspect that his mental status has changed and he is no longer coherent or able to make informed decisions regarding his care you can contact the doctor and find out if your father can be examined by a mental health professional to determine his mental state. If they find he is not able to make appropriate decisions then your family might be able to take over decision making and have records released. This is a difficult and lengthy process so not a very likely choice. Sorry...I hope your father realizes he needs support and help. You might want to speak to other people your father might trust (friends or drinking buddies) and see if they know anything you don't...however be prepared for them not to share or for your father to get upset. Good luck!

I'm sorry you're going through this with your dad. He's sick. He's an addict. You already know this. If he won't admit he has a problem I'm afraid there's not much you can do for him. He needs to acknowledge it and be willing to get help. An intervention MIGHT help, but you need to communicate serious bottom lines to him AND be willing to stick to them, if he does not agree to get help.
Without treatment and recovery, there are only two outcomes for addicts, death or institutions (hospitals, jails).
What you CAN do is to get help for yourself. Please go to an Alanon meeting. Most likely he has cut everyone else out of his life b/c they are not willing to buy into his denial or fantasy of everything "being ok". You don't have to either. Alanon will teach you how to acknowledge his disease and still love him.
Good luck and God Bless. I will say a prayer for your dad.

I'm sorry that your family is having to deal with this. I was just going to tell you that his doctor will not tell you anything. It's a privacy thing. Unless he's signed a hipa paper stating you as someone that can know his info, then it is illegal to let you know anything.

Hi, H.:
The only thing I can suggest is that you all do a family decision making conference.

Call Sandy at: ###-###-#### International Institute of Restorative Practices and ask if anyone is available in your area to do a FGDM conference. Or e-mail her at: ____@____.com

Good luck. D.

I would call his Dr Monday and leave a urgent msg for him to call you on his voice mail regarding your Dad. Mention to the Dr you are quite concerned about Dad's health and drinking problem. In the same call see where he/she recommends as a close rehab clinic. Next I would try to do a family intervention by getting all of your siblings together with your mom and maybe a licensed social worker, and a member of the clergy if he is a church goer, all of you sit down with your Dad tother and get his problem out in the open. Let him know that you are all aware of his drinking problem and the seriousness of it. He will likely be angry, beligerant and in denial but you all need to insist that he get help asap in an inpatient rehab clinic. If nothing is done you should be concerned for his life. I'm sure you can research his cirrhosis of the liver on some medical web-sites like Web-MD or Mayo-Clinic.com. to see what the prognosis is for your Dad if he continues to drink. These 2 web-sites provide loads of useful information free. If you know of any friends or family members who are in AA you may want to contact them too to have them help out with the intervention.
You can do this, you are a good daughter to be so concerned about your Dad.

If his doctor is following the law, he can not give anyone any information (not even his next appointment time). But, I was wondering.....do you think that he is really going to the doctor. Is he making the decision to go on his own? Or, do you and the other family members insist that he goes? Then, does he agree to go, but only by himself, disappear for a couple of hours, then comes back with no information. From the symptoms that you describe, I would assume that a doctor would have him admitted to the hospital for testing (which would take more than a couple of hours)

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. My father was an alcoholic for most of my life and he eventually died a few years ago. As a RN and someone who has actually been through this with a family member, I can tell you that no part of this is easy. Build a strong support system for yourself (your family and friends, Alanon, etc.) to help you get through this.

First of all, his doctor will not (or should not) give you any information without your father's permission. The HIPAA laws are very strict for patient confidentiality. If you dad signed a HIPAA form at the doctor's office giving permission for anyone else to get his medical information, then the physician can only give information to whoever is listed on that form.

Unfortunately, I agree with you that an intervention may not work at this stage since your dad is still in denial of there being a problem. My father quit drinking a couple times after hitting "rock bottom" only to go back to drinking a few months later. As you know, alcoholism is a disease and it is extremely difficult for an addict to stop drinking and then stay sober- it's not impossible, just difficult, but he has to be willing to do it.

As far as your dad's health, it's hard to say exactly how his disease will progress. Liver failure can happen quickly or take a while. People with end-stage liver failure have very yellow skin and eyes (jaundice), extremely swollen abdomens (they can look 8 or 9 months pregnant!), and will have dark, concentrated urine. In addition, they will usually be confused because of the hepatic encephalopathy. Despite his years of drinking (probably at least 15 years), my dad never developed liver disease. Long-term alcoholism can also cause other problems like dementia that is not related to liver failure, but simply related to the long-term use of alcohol. That was my dad's problem- he had alcohol-related dementia (Korsakoff's dementia). Unfortunately, the only person who can give you a true prognosis is your dad's physician since each patient is different and unique, but it sounds to me like he might be in the earlier stages of the disease.

Again, I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this- I truly know how difficult this type of situation is. If you need anything, please feel free to private message me- I dealt with this for my entire childhood as well as my adult life.