Are We Getting Ripped Off?

I ditto what ⊱♥Christy♥Lee♥⊰ said. My SO is a professional photographer and people really have no idea how much time goes into processing good quailty photos. I reiterate--good quality photos!

That being said, I would have an issue being forced to pay for portraits in order for my daugter to participate in a dance recital considering we invested money in paying for dance lessons and costumes. Photographs should be optional.

Makes me wonder if the dance studio and the photo studio are owned by family members or friends that are planning it that way or getting "kick-backs"
Sounds major steep to me and I have done photography and know several who are portrait photographers. One near me has zero sitting fee if you at least buy the cd. She doesn't even charge for location shots. The CD is $100 and that is with touch ups. She will do both of my daughters and me seperatly and grouped and it is all one fee for the CD (more if she prints them)

I'd let her sit for the group photo if she HAS to be in the photo in order to be in the recital (why is that exactly?), but decline the individuals. But I wouldn't pay the sitting fee. I'd go to Portrait Innovations or somewhere much less expensive, get a couple of poses and be done with it.

I do not think the $100 sitting fee, plus a free photo cd is a rip off. Professional photographers that have done our family photos charge $75 for ONE digital picture on a CD PLUS a $100+ sitting fee. (more based on people, location, etc).

That said, what I think is fishy (as others have said) is the fact you HAVE to pay for her to be in any group shots or to be in the program. That, however, is not the photographer, that is your studio.

good luck!

Yes, you're getting ripped off. The fact that there is a sitting fee is ridiculous. Our dance pictures are on Saturday and for $19 we get a 5x7, a couple 3.5x5 and a couple wallets and this is in an extremely affluent area. I would also be very upset at being blackmailed into having to do pictures in order to do the recital. Our pictures are optional for those who are participating in the recital and for those who chose not to do the recital. I would seriously reconsider this studio.

The photographer's price seems fair and reasonable. What does NOT seem fair is the dance studio requiring your daughter to be in the photo to be in the recital. That's what I would have an issue with. Her name could still be in the program even if her photo was not.
My daughter danced with an excellent school a few years back and even though she was photographed as part of the group we were not charged a sitting fee for that. We had the option of buying the group photo if we wanted, and also had the option of paying a sitting fee if we wanted individual photos. The key word here is "option." I just don't see how a photo is at all necessary to the performance.
Does the dance director have some kind of deal or special relationship with the photographer?

I have talked to numerous professional photographers and am friends with a couple of them. I've learned that the average person has no idea how much work goes into professional pictures. It's NOT just point-and-shoot and here you go, here's your photos.

I don't think you're getting ripped off. I think $100 is fair for 1/2 hour and a CD with print rights, due to all the work that goes into processing each photo. You can take a LOT of photos in 30 minutes with a professional camera.

But the real work in digital photography begins in the studio with editing, color correction, and retouch. She has to go through every single photo and figure out what is being kept and what's being deleted. Then she has to edit and retouch each one that is kept. Again, that means looking at every single photo that was taken.

If she takes 100 photos per kid, and keeps just 25% of them, that's still 1500 photos to edit and retouch. And if she's a real pro, she's going to probably take at LEAST 10-15 minutes per photo for color correction, sizing/cropping, etc.

So let's do the math: Let's say she keeps 25 great photos of your kid, and spends 15 minutes editing each. Heck, let's go conservative and say she's really fast and can edit each in 10 minutes.

25 x 10 = 250 minutes / 60 = 4.16 hours (spent JUST on YOUR child's photos). So how's she making her money? $100 / (4.16min editing + .5hr sitting) = $21.45 per hour.

I don't think $21.45 per hour for a professional photographer is a ripoff AT ALL.

Also, just for fun: Based on the numbers above, your photographer will spend about 250 hours editing photos for 60 girls. That doesn't include the sitting.

ETA: Also, the difference between an exceptional pro and a franchise photo mill is night and day. IMHO.

ETA2: I'm a little distracted today, apparently. Just reread this: "There are 10 girls in a class, and each class has 30 minutes to take group and selfies."

Okay, if they don't each get their OWN 30 minutes sitting, sans the group, then yes...I'd say it's a ripoff. Yep.

Yeah, you're getting ripped off. But you're kinda screwed, aren't you? At this point, you're either paying the whole amount and proudly watching your child dance, or you're disappointing her and STILL being out the $200 you already paid for costumes, etc. They've got you good.

I'd seriously consider NOT having her dance in the recital next year. Those are excessive fees. I'd be bummed, too. And I'd be really disappointed in that dance school for pulling this stunt.

Sounds like the dance studio and the photographer are conniving together. I bet they share the $100 fee and probably some of the price of the photos. I had photographers approach me at Disney World and they weren't as expensive as this guy.

I'd contact another photographer and ask them what they would charge and then I'd bring it up with all the moms standing around.

Good luck to you and yours.

Sounds like a rip off to me! I am sure photography takes work, but $6000 in sitting fees? WTH? And you HAVE to do it or they will exclude your kid from the recital she has been working towards. Thats rediculous. I would throw a fit. Everyone should be included inthe group photo AT NO COST. If you want to buy one, then buy one, but it should not cost anything for her to be in the group photo. You absolutely should be able to decline the individual photos without having to pull her from the recital. Sounds like your dance company and this photographer have a great scam... oops I mean deal.... going on!

WHOA! You stopped me cold at the statement, "If our children want to be in the recital then they have to sit for pictures."

Ballet mom of many years here and I'm plenty mad on your behalf.

Don't let the fee and the photographer's income blind you to the real issue: Why on Earth deny a child a place she earned in a recital because she didn't have some photos made? This studio does not care about the kids' dancing, but it cares about these photos this much? Find a studio that puts dancing first. The junk about the program? Easily fixed,they just put a line in the caption saying, "Not pictured: Sally Smith, a first grader at.... who has danced for X years..." They are more focused on their program than on the show itself and yeah, it steams me.

The photos have nothing to do with your child's hard work learning dances and practicing and turning up for her classes. Nothing. I agree with the person who posted that it gives a strong whiff of the dance studio and the photographer being in cahoots on this photo package and the studio getting cut of this huge sitting fee. There is no, repeat, no reason the studio should REQUIRE a child to have photos made as a condition of participation in a recital intended to demonstrate the child's dance achievements. Basically they're saying that your child's year of work -- and your year of paying tuition, hauling your kid there to dance, etc. -- do not count, but a lousy set of expensive photos does.

Have you asked point blank: "What happens if I say my child is not going to participate in photos? Are you actually intending to stand there on recital day and tell my child, 'You cannot perform'?" Do it. See what the studio director says. I bet no one has ever put the director or owner on the spot like that. They are using the threat of "no photos, no recital" to force people to spend money. They are probably going to be scared if you bring it up because they fear if one parent rebels, more will.

Does the studio itself display the photos taken in these sessions? Here's why I ask: My daughter's studio has up years and years worth of great photos from shoots done before their Nutcracker and spring shows--professional shoots, done at the dance school. But the studio says quite clearly that NO one is required to be in these photos, and the studio would never dream of making performance dependent on photos.

And our studio uses photos in its programs as well, but doesn't try to have every child shown and named in every program.

If you dance school's owner says, "Well, we need the photos to put up here" (if they do that) I would just respond that it's not your business to pay for their studio's decoration. Geez.

And the $100 sitting fee, even if you weren't being blackmailed into paying it, is excessive. Our students do not pay a sitting fee at all. We pay a flat fee for each set of photos we want -- kids have multiple parts in some ballets/recitals but we can choose if we want individual photos of our child in just one part, two, three, whatever. We can get individual shots done and we just send in our order with our kid on picture day. We also can buy copies of the group shots, which are the ones the studio uses on its walls. But we're not required to buy a single thing. And a kid whose parents do not purchase any photos? Those kids are still very welcome to turn up and be in the group shots, since those shots go on the studio walls as a record for years to come.

What you describe is simply blackmail. Call them on it. Don't bring up how much the photographer is making. But tell the dance school owner that you question what the relationship is between the photos and the printed program, and the dance studio's ability to teach and desire to show its' students' efforts in a recital.

It does sound extremely expensive and ridiculous to me. I've been a dance teacher since I was in high school and am doing the whole performance thing as a mommy for the first time this year. No studio I've ever known has charged a sitting fee for pictures nor have any of them required pictures to participate in the performance. I think you really need to talk to the studio director about it. Sounds like she may be getting a kick back from the photographer (why else would it be required?). I would also look around at other dance studios for next year. Any studio that really cares about your child learning to dance will not have such ridiculous fees and requirements. Plus, with only 6 classes total, it doesn't sound like you daughter has much room to grow. I say do what you have to do this year and then run unless something changes next year!

I for sure thought I was misreading your sitting fee....a $100.

No way!

My one daughter who figure skates, receives a lovely free shot at each competition, a $25 value, they always add. Then we buy the CD for $40, because they are a business needing to earn a living. The CD has over 50 action shots of her on the ice.

Yes, I think you are being ripped off. Big time. And you should speak to the director how excessive you think the sitting fees are.

If you truly don't have an option then it doesn't matter if you're being ripped off. You have to do it. I suggest that you will be better off if you stop thinking about this. Just do it.

Yes, I do think you're being ripped off. Not because of the price but because she has to have the photos in order to be in the recital. I do wonder if you understand this correctly. Have you talked to the dance studio director to be sure that this is correct? I could understand the pressure to be photographed. I wonder if you're interpreting the pictures this way because you want her picture to be included and to be included you have to pay the sitting fee.

Perhaps, next time you'll know better to ask questions about the total cost of everything before you sign up. A painful lesson to be sure.

After your SWH. What you posted does not say that the sitting fee is mandatory. It says that attending the picture taking session is mandatory. It's possible that you have the choice of also having individual picture taken at which time there would be a $100 sitting fee. Ask the studio about this or give the photographer a call and ask.

As other posts have indicated, what you're thinking is happening is not the usual way of doing business. Ask to be sure before you spend more time being upset.

i wouldnt get them done. i'd let her particpate in a group photo (which you may be able to pay a mom for a copy of) and then if i wanted get an individual one somewhere a lot cheaper.

You are absolutely getting ripped off. There should be NO sitting fee. My daughter has been dancing for 7 years,4 of them competitively, and I've never paid more than $100 for everything.

This year she is getting one of showtroupe memory mat, that is $22.

We are also getting 5 group 5x7's of the other routines she is in. Those are $9 a piece.

$67 total and I'll have one of everything.

I would not take the pictures period
_____________________________________________________________

I also always take group shots of our girls before every routine goes on stage. At competitions, if possible, and always at recital. No way would I pay for any of that.

EDIT: I just read your SWH and I think you should suck it up this year (b/c it's really too late to do anything about it) and find another studio if they want to continue dancing. There's something really wrong about this and after 20+ years of dancing (myself) and my nieces, cousins, friends' children etc... I have never heard of something like this. They can't be in the recital if they don't get their pictures taken? Go with it this year and then find a better run studio.

My sister just went through this with her two girls. She didn't have to pay a sitting fee (that's ridiculous), but the cheapest package was like $200 and included 3 "sheets". They kind of "have you" because if you want the group picture, you have to pay for the whole thing. You have the option of only having her in the group picture and no individual, right? If so, have her there dressed and ready to go for the group shot, but don't take the individual.

I would then (while she's dressed and ready) take her to Sears or JCP and have her individual portraits done. MUCH cheaper and you'll get much more camera time!

ETA - Hey A., your post got me thinking about graduation portraits - I have a junior who will need senior pictures taken this summer. Here is the FAQ page for Root Photography Studios - I'm sending you THIS link of theirs because in the FAQ's, it says NO SITTING FEE! See, folks! Not every studio charges the $100 rip-off fee!! Smiles!

http://hrimaging.com/about-us/f-a-q/#2

Original:
A., I didn't read the other answers, but I would talk to the other parents about this requirement and ask them to complain with you about the requirement. I do think that if your studio went to the owner of the photo studio and argued the point with them, that not only would a deal be struck, but it's possible that the parents would actually order more pictures because the sitting fee isn't as high. I admit that when I feel that someone is ripping me off, I don't reward them by buying extra, EVER.

If the dance folks are personal friends with the photographer, then you are getting doubly screwed. I actually think you should be more irritated with the dance people for not demanding a better deal for their parents.

Whoa - if she wants to be in the recital she HAS TO sit for photos? My kids ahve been in sports teams forever and the deal is always that the group photo is free for every kid - and kids who want to buy a package are photographed seperately. Have you ever asked the dance studio management about not buying the photos? You cannot be the only parent who has a problem with this.

I have to say living in the NY Metro area the $100 sitting fee is expensive even by our standards. I had to look to see where you live - and the only area I thought would be more costly is the Atlanta area - I suspect it's the whole pageant- culture that's pretty non-existant around here.

I would say no way. Google tips for amateur photography read up on it and take your own photos. Read the original contract you signed when you signed up your daughter - and as long as there's nothing in the contract you have no obligation to participate in the photo session and if the dance center gives you a hard time about your child dancing in the recital then threaten to go to a lawyer.

My gut tells me that the dance school gtes a kick-back as the rates is highway robbery...

They need to find a new studio in my opinion. That is a rip-off. In order to even have your daughter in everyone else's group photos, you have to pay a sitting - that's ridiculous. It's a sweet deal for the photographer.
Photography is expensive, but I wonder if the studio is getting some sort of a kickback from them. I would raise a stink and check into other options.
Since my kids have been in sports, they've changed studios a few times through the school, but have NEVER paid a sitting fee and we also did dance with the same thing. My gf does a lot of dance and cheerleading photos and doesn't charge the sitting per family and she still makes good money off those.

I've also set-up those types of sittings through work with several different companies. We scheduled family portraits for them (20 minute increments depending on size of family). There was no sitting fee, they get 1 free 8x10 and can order what they like. Nearly everyone ordered additional fees and they (the photographer) like the set-up. There's two choices of backgrounds and they make a fair bit of money.
Time to find a new company that isn't trying to rake you over the coals.

I haven't read the other answers, but in my opinion, yes you are being ripped off. I have never heard of a sitting fee for "activity" pictures (sports, dance, etc). And I have never heard of a studio requiring it to participate in the recital. The whole thing is wrong, IMO. If I were you, I would be looking for a new studio next year.

yes that is a rip off. the photographer that does the pictures for our dance studio doesn't charge a "sitting" fee.
Only thing you pay for is the pictures.

ppppfffffttttttttt.
i spent far less for my son's college graduation picture.
and the ones i took with my i-phone are dang near as good.
no way would i allow mom-guilt to suck my checkbook dry for something like this.
putting you between a rock and a hard place (your daughter can't perform if you don't cough up the extortion money) would be a zero sum game in my book. if you weren't informed about this upfront, i'd be making lawsuit noises. i hate frivolous lawsuits, but the threat of them can sometimes be useful. and i would never sign my kid up for this again, and i'd let the organizer know that i'd be vocal and public about my reasons why.
khairete
S.

Yes - if you HAVE to participate to be able to be in the recital that is unfair. It should be optional. Then if you don't want to pay, you can take your own pictures.

Yes, it's a steeeeeeeep fee. but analyzing her overhead is pointless. She could always argue other costs. The bottom line is that it's a splurge. Can you afford it or not? If so, splurge. Don't take it personally as a scam. If it's not doable, take a bundle of your own digital pics of your smiling daughter in her outfit. I've done a couple of highway robbery tourist photos despite the thousands of pics I always take. But sometimes it's fun to splurge. We all waste $100 once in a while, and you will like the pics.

My kids are getting some steep fees now that they're getting more advanced in Tae Kwon Do. I'm always feeling like, "should the new uniforms cost THAT much? Should the tournament registration be THAT much, the camp, the photos, the weapons aaaaaack! ??!" But we save and are frugal in so many other areas, I just do it. They are thriving and learning an amazing lifetime skill. None of the other parents are rich either. I just cut costs elsewhere (my own of course-moms are martyrs after all).

I say do it if you can, and don't sweat it if you can't. I mean, what are you going to do, give her attitude and accuse her of robbery? Just treat it like a luxury if you do it.

***AFTER recital, complain to studio about their mandatory photo thing and have some other parents join you.

Sounds suspect to me.

I'm so sorry you're in this situation. Unless it was spelled out up front (as in, before you registered for dance classes) making paying a $100 sitting fee to a photographer a condition for participating in a recital is unacceptable. I wonder if other parents have a problem with this? I certainly would.

I think it's time to start asking questions, and also let the dance studio owner know that you are unhappy with this arrangement. Ask for options. Also ask why this policy exists to begin with, and why parents are not informed up front before the beginning of classes, if indeed you weren't informed. Ask the studio to show you where this policy is written down. If it's in the materials you received with registration, then this time, you're stuck. If it's not, then it should not be a requirement.

If the dance studio will not budge, pay it if you can, for your daughter's sake, and then go find another dance studio. Share your experience with every other parent of a dancer that you know, so they will not be suckered by this unethical arrangement.

For comparison - my daughter took lessons for several years at a locally well-known dance studio here. The fanciest (read "most expensive") photography studio in town did our recital pictures. We pre-ordered pictures, with a minimum of $16 order, and they came to the performance venue and photographed each girl who had a prepaid order during dress rehearsal. The photos were completely unconnected to the children's participation in the recital. There was no sitting fee.

I would be shocked if she had to be in the pictures in order to participate in the recital. In fact if that's true I'd look for another dance company.

My youngest dances and it sounds like our company has a very similar photo plan and cost. She didn't have a professional picture last year and she won't this year either. She was playing softball last year and got invited to go to SF with her friend during this year's picture day.

The group shots are all in a recital "yearbook" like you describe, my daughter just isn't in it. No huge deal, you have to pick and choose in life and pitching a softball game was way more important to her. As for this year who wouldn't prefer to go to the city with her buddy?

My problem with the cost of stuff like this is the pictures are never used in our family other then for memories. My husband is an excellent photographer, his pics are the ones we cherish that really capture our kids beauty and personalities. School, sports and dance photos are for the scrapbook. Find a friend who can take a decent picture, have your own photo shoot and put an extra $100 in her college fund. It won't mean a thing in a few years.

sounds off to me - have to do the pics to be in ... extortion and/or kickback comes to mind...

btw - picture people is no more....oops, it's Picture Me, didn't know there was others so similarly named

What the market will bear. Fact is it is the only way you will get those pictures so you are not getting a good deal but you are getting what the market will bear.

I'd go to target for anything but the group picture. That's a HUGE rip-off.

There is never a sitting fee for pictures at our dance studio and definitely no requirement to be in the picture to perform. Sounds to me like you need to look for a new studio when this season is over.

I think the fees are way too high! I would discuss with other parents and then discuss with the dance studio. Ask if you have to pay a sitting fee to just be included in the group photo?? I'm sure you are already paying high fees for dance lessons, costumes and recitals. I wonder if the photographer is providing the studio with an album of group photos and individual photos for free (and she is bumping the cost to the parents) Then I would take my daughter to a local Target or other place that does photos and get her photos done.

Some of the best pictures I have are the ones I've taken myself. Even my phone takes some really nice shots. I'd skip the professional photographer.

I live in the Chicagoland area and I have never heard of anything even close to this. I have had many dance, sports, communion etc..photos done and have never been charged a sitting fee! That is ridiculous!

So, yes you are getting MAJORLY ripped off! I would schedule an appointment with Sears or Penneys and have them do her pictures. If you don't have time or don't want to go the hassle of that, take your own photos and get enlargements made. If you're not good at it, ask a friend or relative who is to take the photos.

Do not pay that ridiculous sitting fee! That is highway robbery and should be boycotted!

This seems odd to me. We do pictures for sports and dance all the time, and there is never a fee, you just pay for the pictures you want, that is it. There has never been a sitting fee. I would just take my own photos of my child and call it a day, or take her to sears or somewhere like that. I would skip the group shot and just get some shots of the girls just before the recital all together and email copies to the other moms.

I stopped reading when I figured out that you were taking her to a photographer!
Oh my gosh. She's a kid! Whip out your phone or your own camera and take some pictures of your beautiful little girl.
Download them to your computer and save them forever. Take them to Walgreens and make 50 copies at .10 a copy and pay $5!

RIPPED OFF. Completely. It is absurd that your daughter cannot dance (a beneficial physical activity) if you don't pay for the photographer to take pictures (an exercise in narcissism - completely for parents and the studio owner). I understand you have $$ already invested. However, I would discuss this with the studio owner. And then I would LEAVE. I would not give her a penny more if she insists on the pictures. I would also let her know that you have no plans to be quiet about this when you talk to all your friends with dance age children.

I'm late, but holy moly! That is definitely a rip off. That photographer and your dance studio owner are reaping the benefits of "forcing" you to do this.

I work for a dance studio, and pictures are never mandatory. They're optional. And they don't cost $100 for the sitting fee. Our cheapest package costs $40 for 2 5x7, 4- 3x5, 8 wallets and a group shot. Totally reasonable, and they only take about 3 minutes per child, maybe 5-8 minutes for the group shot.

I think it's time you shop around for a new studio for your daughter. You're paying $150 for costumes, over $100 for pictures, $35 for each program, what the heck do you pay for lessons and dance wear? That is just wrong. I hope for your sake, the quality of her dance education has been worth the money you've spent.

Can you clarify why she has to be in the photos to be in the recital? Honestly, it sounds like the studio and photographer are working together to rip you off. I would really question the ethics of both!

"The photographer knows we don't have a choice. If our children want to be in the recital then they have to sit for pictures."

I don't understand why she has to sit for a photo if she wants to be in the recital. Certainly you have a choice. Take her to picture people if you want a 20 minute photo.

My daughter is in private school. The school photos are at the beginning of the year in uniform and at the end of the year in street clothes. I have been buying the uniform photo, but next year I will give her a choice of a uniform photo or a dress photo. I am not buying both photos. Her beautiful little features have not changed that much in 9 months. I also offered her the year book every other year. It is that or nothing and she agreed to the every other year.