Calling Oppositional Defiant Disorder Parents and ADHD

I don't have a child with this, but have friends struggling with same type of thing.

Self defence class might be good. A friend of mine just took one with her son - it was a fun thing to do together, and also very helpful. The instructor demonstrated that you use just enough force to stop/prevent the attack. Then you walk away. It's not about retaliation. They showed how little you actually need to deflect the attack/push/shove, etc.

It empowers kids and gives them practical skills they can use.

I would try new meds. One of my friends has a stepson who has ADHD and was just very difficult to deal with. On medication now, he seems like a whole new kid to me. Once on the medication, they can now work with him on his behavior - because he's in a better place. He is easier to deal with.

One of my son's good friends has ADHD. The days he forgets to take his meds, he's almost out of control. He's a teenager so I don't know if it gets worse once the hormones hit but I think you need to consider it.

I sent one of my kids to a counsellor (his request) because he was having problems communicating and needed an outlet. He was frustrated. He doesn't have the Oppositional Defiant disorder, but he was being disagreeable. He learned how to relax, be active and get some of his frustration out, coping skills, etc. He took melatonin at bedtime to help him sleep. She gave him relaxation techniques. Together, he was able to sleep better and no longer needed the melatonin.

Respectfully, your focus on having manners and being a gentleman is misplaced. Your son has neurological problems that inhibit his self control. It's not about training him to be polite - you must treat the underlying disorder.

My two oldest sons, who are now 19 and 13, both have ADHD. The older one is inattentive only, so his problem really affects only himself. We tried everything but medication until he was 14. When we started trying medication, he didn't respond well but also wasn't really willing to push through side effects and let his body adjust. He'd rather try to cope on his own and at 19, that's his choice.

My 13 year old was diagnosed a few months before he was 12. His ADHD is combined type and his testing showed ODD tendencies. His challenges affect the entire family - his behavior causes stress for everyone, especially his younger brother. For him, getting his ADHD under control was a must-do. Medication has been the biggest game changer. Insomnia on meds is common - if one causes too much wakefulness, try a different dose, a different med, or give it to him really early in the day. My son gets 14 hours of wakefulness out of Concerta XR so on school days, we make sure he takes it by 7 AM so that he'll be sleepy at 9 PM. It took a while and some trial and error to get to the right dose but it really helps him. He has also seen a counselor every two weeks for the past year. These two approaches together have completely changed his quality of life. He did better in school, sports and music, has more friends, and our home life is much calmer. He and his brother can play together for hours without fighting and without him bullying. He catches himself thinking before he speaks or acts and is proud of his own ability to control himself. When he forgets to take his medication (it happened once on a school day and once at his dad's house recently) he gets anxious because he doesn't want to be "that kid" again - the one running his mouth, using his fists, making poor choices, angering people and getting into trouble. He likes himself now. He's not angry at the world, he doesn't have a chip on his shoulder, and he's not constantly in fight or flight mode.

I can tell you that with my oldest, I tried everything but meds for 7 years. We optimized his diet, he took supplements, we did applied kinestheology, brain balance exercises, and on and on and on. Some of it improved his attention and mood, but the amount of time and money and compliance needed to maintain results was not sustainable and the results were not remarkable. With my younger ADHD son, we were so at our wit's end that we went straight to medication and therapy and I'm glad we did. I still feel like we're treating symptoms and not the root cause, and I really hope we see a breakthrough therapy that fixes the root cause, but at the end of the day, my kid likes himself and is succeeding.

I can't urge you strongly enough to revisit medication. Particularly when ODD is involved, you have to give your child every tool possible that will allow him to control his impulses. If an extended release med caused insomnia, you can try one that he takes multiple times a day instead and can adjust the timing and strength of the later dose so that it's out of his system before bedtime. Don't let this very common and workable side effect get in the way off offering your son effective treatment.

My son has ADHD. Viola, how much have you educated yourself on the topic? There's a book for kids called "Putting on the Brakes" which I read with our son. The fact that kids with ADHD have little impulse control is a HUGE factor in what's frustrating you about your son.

I want to share with you some of my own observations which parallel what you see. Our son (10 now) was diagnosed at 7 years old. The psychologist didn't recommend meds at the time due to some anxiety tics Kiddo was having (due to being physically bullied by two other students and not keeping up at school). So, we tried discipline, went to workshops, and tried to work with the school in having reasonable expectations for our son. The thing was, our son *couldn't* do what we were asking of him. It wasn't a defiance situation, he just was spread so thin from trying to behave at school all day, the knowledge that he was disappointing his teachers, and frustrating us as his parents-- it only made him more anxious and angry with himself.

I made a huge mistake in trying to uphold the teachers' suggestions *all the time*. During his third grade year, his self-esteem just plummeted. I found out later (from other parents as well as my son) that his teacher was verbally bullying him during class due to his needing a little extra help. I regret not having pushed harder as I was trying so hard to work with her. Finally, I pulled him out to homeschool because he wasn't gaining any knowledge there, only feeling horrible about himself. It was too much pressure for an 8 year old.

It took us a year to come to point where his anxious tics had diminished. He was still having trouble with impulsiveness and focus, so we decided to try medication. It was amazing. He had the ability to *put on the brakes* and stop himself for the first time in his life. It's only been a few months since we started, and he's SO proud. We are now using melatonin (which I've been wary of for a while) for nighttime, and it's worked wonders.

All this to say, I think you are putting a lot of pressure on your son to meet some unreasonable expectations. Even typical kids don't always have the best manners. I really want to encourage you to go back to a psychiatrist and TRY AGAIN. This really is a treatable neurological issue. The haywire disconnections happening with ADHD brains can be corrected effectively. I'm concerned that you would try tea tree oil instead of trying meds again. Listen, I have anxiety disorder, and a thousand cups of chamomile tea and hours of meditation won't make me 'mellow out'... and if someone had told me that before I'd started medication for it, I'd tell you "are you high? I CAN'T." It's not a mind over matter thing, it's a REAL ability issue. The same goes for kids with ADHD.

Our son's confidence has grown by leaps and bounds. He's now focusing more easily, less distracted, but even more-- he's become far more considerate and is pleasant company for the adults and the cats in our house. (He used to be rough with them, now they trust him. HUGE!) Please, give medication another chance. Don't expect him to be a gentleman-- instead, be gentle with *him*, understand his limitations, and teach him to be kind to himself, too. Personally, I think you need to recognize that your son did a very normal thing in defending himself, in both situations. If I'd heard a kid was spraying others with bug spray, I'd expect that child be sent home as well. We, as a society, need to learn that peer correction (pushing someone doing something offensive away from us or defending ourselves) is not aberrant behavior. Telling someone to go run to adults to solve everything is problematic. I think your son probably feels he doesn't have anyone on his side. Work on that, too.

I highly recommend giving medication another try to improve everyone's quality of life. There are options for dealing with insomnia. Many kids with ADHD take melatonin to help with sleep, medication or not. I've been dealing with our son's ADHD for 11 years now and not once have I read anything suggesting Melaluca as a scientifically proven ADHD treatment. In fact, that made me laugh because it just screamed "so-called friend trying to sell her MLM product."

If you're set on not going the modern medicine route with medication and therapy, look into neurofeedback. There is some early evidence it can be beneficial. It's got about a 50/50 shot at working. We did it with our son for almost a year and he was in the unlucky 50 percent, but still may be worth a shot. Just know that insurance won't cover it, so it will cost you thousands of dollars in the end.

Lack of manners and appropriate behavior is part of ADHD and ODD. You can't parent these conditions away. I highly recommend talking to his team of medical specialists for the best next steps.

My son was having a bunch of issues and age 10-12 we had him see a child therapist who specialized in ADHD, ODD, anger issues, teens, etc. It was very, very helpful. She met with me also. She first worked on bonding with him. Then she worked with him on taking responsibility for his own actions. I really recommend this. Our son matured a lot and learned how to handle his very strong emotions.

You need to find the right combination of medication and therapy that will work for your son. Find a counselor who specializes in ADHD/ODD. That can help your whole family. While your son is the one with the disorder, it affects the whole family.

I'm sorry but I disagree with your stance regarding your son and defending himself. Being a gentleman is great but I would never expect my child to be a gentleman when he is being terrorized. Was this addressed with the school? If not, WHY NOT???

We had this issue when my son was in middle school. We went to the teacher, counselor and principal. Nothing happened due to the bully being from New Orleans (this was right after Katrina hit and Houston was overrun with folks from NO). My son defended himself. The principal threatened to suspend my son. I told him he would NOT do that because we had reported his bullying several times. I also stated if he did, I would sue and would most likely win due to their inaction and not following their own policy regarding bullies. There is a time and place to defend ones self. This was it.

I think once he gets back on meds, therapy for the behavioral part will work. Good luck!!

I'd revisit the meds - you have to keep trying different ones until you find something that works.
Taekwondo might be a good thing to sign him up for.
By the time they are breaking boards and know some self defense they've learned when and how to defend themselves.
Our philosophy for our son has been (and we've told teachers this) - if someone is physically bothering you, you ask 3 times that they stop.
1st time you ask them loudly to quit it.
2nd time you ask again.
3rd time you ask again and tell the teacher - which is important because it gives them a chance to step in and prevent further problems BUT also tell the teacher that if they do not intervene at this time to make it stop then you WILL do something to make it stop yourself (basically anything that happens after this point becomes the teachers fault).
And if it's still happening after that - then take the kid out and we'll sort it all out in the principals office.
My kid does NOT have to be anyone's punching bag.
Our son is a 4th don black belt and has only had to warn a kid twice before the other kid stopped annoying our son.
He said "Look you really need to stop. Because if I have to stop you - you really are not going to like it.".

I'm sorry your son was bullied for a whole year - that must have been very hard for him to put up with - and his restraint to last that long was amazing.
There's a time and place for being a gentleman - bullying situations are not it.
Did you know about this and what did you do about it?

Your kid might have some issues - but then so might other kids - and it should not ALWAYS fall upon your kid to deal with others issues.
It's tricky to navigate and it's a fine line knowing when to stand up for your child and knowing when his own issues have been a root cause of it.
You and your son might want to work with a counselor to help you both so you are both getting coping techniques on how to deal with situations.

First, I think you need to go back to the meds. You should be working with a child psychiatrist who does med management. This is a medicatable condition (not all the time and not 100%). Yes, there are going to be side effects, but often a med change, timing of day dosing change, or simply waiting, will resolve many side effects - especially ones that are not serious like insomnia.

Second, your son needs to work with either a life skills therapist, OT person, regular therapist to get unbiased reviews of this thinking process and also to discuss school and home issues related to his diagnoses.

Third, YOU need to get into some kind of therapy to work on the idea that you can separate his actions from his disability. "It's like it's not in his DNA." That statement says it all.

Stop looking at "alternative medicines". If your child was a diabetic, would you skip the insulin because it kept him awake? No. You might incorporate good nutrition, some meditation, etc. BUT YOU WOULD GIVE HIM THE MEDICATION.

Good luck!

Don't let your son think it was wrong to defend himself. I actually think you owe him an apology. He suffered for a year at the hands of these bullies. You acknowledge your son was defending himself. He must be very confused by your stance on this issue.

I would also think it would be a natural reaction to push away someone that was spraying bug spray in your face...wth?

Are you sure your son has ODD and isn't just confused by this crazy world we live in? Your son seems to have more common sense than the adults around him.

Ummm...I am not reading what the other moms write so I can answer this exactly how I feel.
Why WOULDN'T you want your kid to stand up for himself? He was getting bullied by a kid! This JUST happened to my son, right before school got out. This kid has been giving him a hard time all school year. He finally stood up for himself after the kid swung at him. I gave him kudos. Good job son!! Don't let kids push you around.
If some punk kid is spraying poison in my kid's face I would be absolutely fine with him pushing the kid away from him. You don't need to be a gentleman when someone is giving you a hard time. Maybe he did go and talk with someone, maybe the sponsor wasn't able to help. Maybe he just got tired of it and pushed the kid away and now he wont bother him.
Sometimes a little playground justice is what is needed.
My son is very difficult to parent as well. He does dumb things without thinking, he says things, he is active, it feels like he needs me to be on his case all the time to get things done. It's exhausting. I feel ya! But I have to wonder.....was he diagnosed by a doctor? Does he really need meds or is he just a difficult kid? What you are explaining sounds like a strong willed child. YOU may need counseling so you can learn to parent a child that just takes a LOT more effort. (I did!)
Good luck,

You are not alone. Look up the Arrowsmith Program in Toronto (they have local places that have the program as well, perhaps one in your area). This has been a terrific thing for my son. If you have any questions about my experience with it, you can message me. Hang in there!!

As a mom of 13, both homegrown and adopted, I've had these behaviors in some of my kiddos as well. ADHD & ODD can vary in severity & sometimes medication is helpful. It takes a skillful doctor, the right Med, and some luck.
Behaviorally, I came across a program I WISH I'd known about 20 years earlier called Transformational Parenting. Despite my extensive experience, it had a LOT to teach me. They also have a program for ADHD, but I felt it was secondary to the basics taught by TP.
It will help you teach these things in a way he can learn.
And don't give up on using essential oils. Don't use them straight, use a carrier oil. Use on Less sensitive places. Enlist the help of a pro in using them.
Finally, his reaction to the oils makes me suspect he may have chemical loads that are too great for him. How much processed food does he eat? Look to eliminate any foods with chemicals. Provide him a solid dose of probiotics every day (this alone has done miracles in my family), and I love working with naturopaths as they've had the most creative means at their disposal. I learned this after realizing the limitations of MDs :(
Oh, & some parents found a martial art to be helpful in teaching their son discipline once they had other behavioral &/or medical support.

Hi Viola, I will love to share alternative help for you, contact me.
Wishing you guidance and Blessings.
A.