CONSEQUENCES For a Sass Mouthed 11 Year Old, Who Wants to Go over Mom's Head

First of all, I would call grandma and grandpa and let them know she is planning to come to them and that I have already said No and that she will NOT be going, period. I would also ask them to have a conversation with her about trying to go over my head. I agree with Christine W., there is no one who is "over my head" in the parenting department. I also would not make a spreadsheet. She's asked, been told no, that's the end of it. the only other thing I MIGHT consider is if she came to me and asked if she paid for half, would I match her so she could go. If she were willing to work for it, I might consider changing my mind but ONLY if she didn't try to go over my head. That still gets me - over my head!!!!

I think that is a great idea... I would also add if the door gets slammed, the door is removed. If she doesn't want to act respectfully then she can sit in her room. Everytime she talks back something else is removed from her room ( if she is like my kids and they only have thier bed and dressers in thier room then she has to miss out on something or has to stay in the house for x amount of time with no phone, tv or friends)

I would tell her that if she wants to go so bad she has to earn the money herself. They can pay her $1-3 per extra chore she does. Put up flyers to help rake leaves or other ways of asstisting people ( pet walking, babysitting etc) IF she earns enough before the trip to pay for it herself then she can go. She will quickly learn the value of money.

J needs an attitude adjustment big time.
First and foremost - there IS no going over her Mom's head - and the grandparents had better be on board with that.
Second - she's a bit old to be having a protracted temper tantrum.
In cheer leading or anything else - you win some - you lose some - and what ever happens you DON'T DWELL ON IT.
As for a teachable moment - if J can't accept her Mom's decision on this, perhaps Mom should pull her out of cheer leading for awhile until J gets over herself and matures a bit.
I can't stand divas at any age, but junior divas really need to learn the world does NOT revolve around them.

My answer may not be the most popular, but here goes.... This isn't an issue about money, value, budgeting. The issue is an 11 yr old child was told "NO" and no means no. Her team didn't make it, period, that's it! End of story.
BUT on the issue of money, it never hurts to start showing kids what things cost so they have an idea of the cost on day to day living. And earning money is always a good idea for kids.

Hmmm, I'm with Jim. NO MEANS NO, end of conversation.

:(

Combining what Jim and Rebecca mentioned and there you have my opinion. No way shape or form is this about money [w/the 11yr old].

My kids are only 3 and 8... When they start acting up [and I know it's not from being tired/over tired], I start taking things away. They learned really fast what NOT to do. Then, the things that were taken away, had to be EARNED back. Mine are too young for an allowance, but they already know that they have to earn the things given to them.

I've put my mother in her place when she does something that I've said no to... IN FRONT OF MY KIDS. I even went as far as telling her bluntly, "YOU ARE NOT MOM. I am. You are done raising me and you had no others. If I'm not around and you're watching my kids, then you have a say, but not any other time." I've even taken things back to the store that she's bought because I'd said no and she bought anyways.

NO MEANS NO. Whining and acting crappy are NOT things people do to get their way [in the real world]. She's old enough to know that by now.

ETA- "You can't always get whatcha want.... You can't always get whatcha want... But if you try sometimes, you might find, you get whatcha need..."

I sing that to my kids... They hate it.

I suggest the child be taken off the team next season and is told she can return when she learns to respect her parents decisions and becomes a better sport. No one wins all the time and as we see in daily life, someone who may appear to be a "winner", sometimes turns out to be a "loser" or worse.

I also suggest the parents let the grandparents know that the child is not going on this trip and they need to show a united front with the decision that has been made.

The child needs to be grounded and her room door be removed the next time it or any other door in the house is slammed.

They better nip this behavior while she's just 11, sounds like this one could turn into a "Teenzilla".

Blessings....

For a sassy mouthed child the answer would be NO and no one would pay for the trip!

Have mom contact the grandparents and warn that not to help out no matter what. She does not deserve to go to anything with that type of attitude. There are not entitlements to an 11 year old. The team didn't make it and she can't go with the other family end of story. No whining, pounting, tantrums.

Her mom explained it to her and she still wants to do what she wants. Well I go along with the song you can't always get watchaa want. Better to learn it sooner than later.

Tell that to your friend. Forget about the spreadsheets as she will fall asleep while they are talking. If she doesn't fall asleep she will tune it all out.

Good luck to her mom. The more the kid screams about going the more things will not be done for her.

The other S.

PS No means No! What part of NO do you not understand? No one wants to be around a rude person child or adult.

EDIT: Mom2kck -- It would be nice for daughter to go but her attitude is what got her into the mess in the first place. She feels that it is okay to go with the other family whose daughter made it. She fails to understand that her team (as a group) missed and disqualified themselves. It is another thing in life that just because you could go doesn't mean you should go. We all have to learn to loose gracefully and accept it.

Good for the parents to use the money to repair the car. I wouldn't cancel Christmas for the rest of the family but I sure would consider cheering next year. Bad attitude = no cheering, "Because I said so."

"if J goes over her head"?!?!?! There isn't ANYBODY over my head in the parenting department.

The girl is a brat, a poor sport and very self entitled! 11 is old enough to understand about finances and expenses (and losing a competition). I wouldn't make a spreadsheet for the brat. Your friend has let her behave this way and feels that the grandparents are over her head...they truly need an overhaul in that family.

FB....I know you are a well meaning friend, but I highly doubt this little girl is going to sit down and talk spreadsheets and incidentals with her mom. By your posts, she sounds a tad spoiled-So I would guess that suggesting she rake leaves or do "chores" is probably not going to happen. Her mother and extended family are enabling this bad behavior. What has happened in this little girls past that allows her to think she can push the limits to get her way? The answer is-She probably has. Kids aren't stupid.
I think I would just save my breathe and try to turn the conversation into something more pleasant.

No mean No. There is nothing difficult in this statement. My son was the world's worst. Even though he knew we didn't give in, he would still try. He would follow me around and try and debate the merits of his request. I would disengage and leave the room. Finally, one day, I turned and said really mean, "I told you no so what part of that don't you understand? I know you aren't hearing impaired so hear me now NO!!!! He finally go the idea! AHHHH!!!!

I think her attitude is based on several things. 1. her team didn't make it by a hair. Sometimes I would rather loose by a lot then a small amount! 2. some of her friends are going and she want to go too. 3. she doesn't understand why she can't go since they would have gone it the team had made it.

Her mom needs to sit down and disucss this calmly with her. I know that might be difficult with an 11 year old drama queen but that is what she needs to do. She needs to let her daughter grieve the loss and the fact that she's not going. Next, her mom needs to contact the grandparents and let them know that them paying for the trip is not an option.

This is a teachable moment. Hopefully, mom will rise to the occasion.

In my house, once the word "no" is uttered, it is law. I never EVER give in. I believe that if you ever give in, it teaches the child that persistence (AKA bi+ching and moaning, or tantrum throwing and crying as a toddler) will pay off and get them their desired result. No means no. So, I often say "let me think about it" or "let me look into it" before answering. I have said no and then regretted it, but once it is said, there is no turning back.

There should be no "heads" higher than Mom or Dad's, period. This child needs to learn to respect her Mom, not a money lesson. She needs to learn to gracefully lose a competition and deal with the fact that she cannot go on the trip because her team did not win. She's plenty old enough at 11.
I can totally understand being sad or even angry, everyone (especially a child) is entitled to feel disappointed and bummed she didn't win but it sounds like there is a lot more focus on a fun trip than the activity of cheerleading itself.
Taking away Christmas is not only extreme but it really sounds like a false consequence, I mean if she calls her Grandparents is your friend really going to cancel Christmas? At what expense to the rest of the family?
It sounds like she needs some realistic and immediate discipline ideas that she can lay down easily and immediately for a bad attitude. Does she have a cell? What about other privledges? It seems like she's giving the child far too much control to stir things up.
As far as the trip is concerned, let the her daughter threaten and spin her wheels all she wants, she's not going because Mom said so, right?

I would make sure your friend has a conversation with the grandparents while J is there to let them know that your friend already said no and that if it brought up again there will be no cheering next cheer season.
I think your friend taking Christmas away is going to punish the whole family but taking the next cheer season away is a punishment that will fit the behavior.

Your friend needs to have a heart-to-heart with the grandparents and ask them if they want to support a spoiled grandchild who talks to her mother like she's a dog and treats her like one. If the grandparents care more about making themselves look good to this granddaughter, than helping this mother teach this girl that she can't always get what she wants, then they are really bad life examples. I hope they won't get in between this mother and her spoiled brat.

I would forget about making her help with the household finances and spreadsheets and all that. I would tell her that it's her night to wash the dishes, and make her start washing and putting away her own clothes.

Really and truly, she needs to talk to those grandparents NOW.

Good luck to her,
Dawn

I agree with Jim at Home Dad. This isn't much about money or budgeting as it is about being disrespectful and underhanded. I just wish grandparents would defer to the parents judgment on things like this. It would make for better children in most cases.

She should be taught the value of money by being given access to X dollars on a regular basis. With those dollars she should be required to save 10%, buy some of her necessities with some of the money and manage the rest until it is time to get more.

A spreadsheet may not work with her. Hands on definitely will. As for consequences, cancelling Christmas works for me. I wouldn't even give her access to any of the goodies coming from others either. Those who don't listen can feel. This little one needs to feel.

This is a huge disappointment for J. She may be acting sassy because it's easier to be angry than to admit how sad she is to miss out on going to Nationals.

My suggestion to your friend is to acknowledge her daughter's feelings but keep her response simple. I'd say something like this:

"I don't blame you for being upset and wanting to go to Nationals. I'm so disappointed that your team didn't qualify. I'm sorry that we don't have the money to send you, even though we would have been obligated to make a sacrifice to go if your team had qualified. (no further explanation necessary, don't let her suck you into an argument.)

If it were up to me, I'd let J go if her grandparents wanted to foot the bill or if she was willing to earn the money herself. As long as there was another family willing to take her and she could truly pay her own way and not be a burden to the other family.

This is a big deal for J, and I would not lecture her about finances and responsibilities. Right now she needs to know that it's OK to feel bad, it's OK to want to go, that sometimes we don't get what we want and that her parents are for her and will help her to earn the money and find a way to get there as long as J knows that it still may not be possible.

Here is the thing with grandparents the flip the bill. When they get older they have milked that golden goose too much and lose out on the big things. Both sets of my kids grandparents would pay for things we said no to. I warned them. Lord was my son in shock when grandpa said no to a new car he really needed when his younger sister just got a brand new car.

Your friend may want to explain grandparents. You can nickel and dime them for sure but then when you really need help they are done with you. Something to consider.

Oh, and yes, with monetary things my kids are spoiled. Fortunately they are not spoiled kids, the one is just now learning late money doesn't grow on trees. Better late than never. :)

I agree with J earning her own money to go.

I think it also has to be considered that J is likely DEVASTATED by missing nationals "by a hair," especially since that means now she can't even go on the trip.

I'm not saying her behavior should be rewarded, but she's 11 - you can't expect her to handle a colossal disappointment like that like an even-tempered adult would.

Okay, I didn't read the responses but I may be odd man out here.

My daughter is 8 and in her 3rd year of competitive dancing, but her first year being a part of the big show troupe. If her group didn't make finals she would be devestated. If she had friends going because older and younger siblings were involved, and my parents would foot the bill if I couldn't, I'd absolutely let her ask them.

This happened last year with us, but my daughter was okay to stay home...and it was the parents that opted not to do the competition, not the girls performance. Either way, had she asked to go, I would have offerd food money to send her with a friend (since they already had to pay for gas and hotel). Make sense?

I think at 11, it's very difficult to find your place and if her core group of friends are doing something that she was counting on being a part of, it's going to be hard for her not to go.

As far as going over her mom, mom needs to put her foot down and let her know who is boss. A firm voice and talking to my daughter on the same level (me bending down to be at eye level with her) works well.

We have also drilled into our kids from day one that our rules are our rules. If we say no, no it is.

Now if we're at grandma's and she says yes to ice cream, no big deal. But a big thing like this? Grandma and granpda should have enough respect for mom to back her up.

But I think mom needs to let her go if it's at all possible.

One more thing...mom is doing a bad thing by threatening to take away Christmas. No parent would really take Christmas away from their kid...so it's an empty threat and probably a big reason why J acts the way she does.

Good luck to all of you!

There was no place over my head when my daughter was growing up. If Mama said NO, there was no point in asking anyone else.

Just because someone else spends the money doesn't mean that mom has to say she can go. I would tell Gramma and Grampa that if they decide to pay for it, their money is going to be wasted, because she is still NOT going.

The older they get, the more of a mind of their own they take on. Some of that is healthy. In our house, we would not allow this because we have a hard and fast rule. One of us (me, husband, grandmother) must go. If we can't get away, we don't trust our children with other people. There is NO one else we trust our kids with. We had to endure a lot of sass and just say NO about 10,000 times when our kids were growing up.

Your suggestions are okay. I just don't know anything about this child. Maybe it would help, maybe not. If this mom is okay with her going with friends though, I say it's between the child and grandparents if they want to pay. She should not make threats to cancel her Christmas if she is not willing to follow through on them.