We have told them come Sept 1 we will be moving from this house we rented last fall in order to accommodate everyone. It has been mentioned several times it that it is temporary until my husbands consulting contract is up in September when we have to leave to take another one in a different community most likely. We have been doing this for the last 4 years.
My question is how to salvage a relationship with my daughter ????She seldom speaks to me. She speaks about anything and everything with her stepfather (my husband) not even looking at me to include me in conversations. I believe my daughter has been forced to feel she is in the middle by her husband. I do not or never have discussed him, said anything negative about him. In fact I have done all I can to make an effort to like him and to treat him as close to as son as I can. This has changed recently to the opposite pole. I will not speak to him. My concern is still for my daughter and the 2 children. I believe my daughter has been trying to keep everything together since she came back to this continent. She makes their car payment, pays the support money for her husband's other 2 children in his native country. she pays the loan they left behind. She pays for all their other expenses, groceries (full supplies now that everyone is angry at each other) gas, karate, guides, theatre, skiing for the 9 yr old, their clothes.
Conclusion: Since my daughter has moved in with us, my husband has also noticed that if I say something is white, my daughter will insist it is black. Literally nothing I say or do is right. I no longer offer an opinion on the weather, local politics or state of the economy. I have stopped offering help. I used to see the baby every day as her husband was always wanting time on the internet, to read his book for volunteer firefighting. I looked after the baby so he could ski last winter, golfi last summer and also whenever his beeper goes off so he can attend as a volunteer fireman. He comes from a macho country, likes his boys time, his beer and poker. He admits to having poor communication skills and does nothing about it that i can see since our last blowup.
For the last couple of he creeps around and hides downstairs in their private living quarters . (We dont have the same respect. they come into our living space whenever, even when we are away). There are double standards. Respect is in short supply.
I seldom see the baby now as the husband is upset with me. I feel a great relief with his lack of presence. I feel very sad that my daughter takes whatever he is telling her as truth, although I understand she does not have much choice.
FINALLY, THE QUESTION: ARE there other mothers out there who have this anguished relationship with their daughter? While my daughter was out of the country she would call almost everyday in the months before she came back to this continent. We would talk for hours about many things. Since she arrived, It is like a different person. I sense a lot of anger and resentment and do not know why. I have taken her out to lunch to talk about our relationship and what we or I can do to make it better. She does not seem to want it.
The biggest problem is that you live together. Two families cannot live together. When you separate give it about a month and I will bet my last dollar she will come around. Time heals all wounds. When you finally start to talk again do not bring up the past, talk about nice things and let it all go.
I think a lot of women get along best with their moms when they live apart.
It's time for them to GO. 2 years has been QUITE a hand UP.
There ARE jobs out there. Jobs enough to support them in some apartment some where.
Give them a date that you're moving and be done. That's their deadline for their own place. Have them apply for housing, cash and food assistance, if necessary.
Plain and simple: You've been and you are still being used and you've been used long enough. You now know that and they don't like it.
No one recognizes a saint at their own hearth.
When we live with someone, no matter how much we love them or how close we are with them... there are frictions. When it's a multigenerational house (grandparents, parents, children/grandchildren... it becomes far far more full of friction.
Dozens of cultures practice multigenerational living. Nearly all have a top down hierarchy. Elders first, parents second, children third.
Psychologically... this is what happens even in our culture. We fall into old roles/ scripts/ schema's.
You want an adult relationship with your daughter... she'll need to be secure in her own adulthood to be able to do that. Seems like when she moved back in with you guys... she lost a lot of her identity. She's relating to you like a child, but still has the responsibilities of a parent and an adult. Been there, done that. With the best mum in the world, with the best intentions in the world, after years of being on my own -fully capable-, and yet. And, yet. And YET... in my mother's house I'm only an adult when I'm visiting. Even then, it's VERY easy for us to fall back into the same roles we held for 17 years. She bends over backwards not to 'parent' my son / her grandson. She still does. Every time I wear metaphorical steel toed boots (because my toes get stepped on a LOT). And she's not even meaning to usurp "my" job/role.
Her house, her rules, her schedule. Yes. We had our own space. But when you share a house with anyone, you're not autonomous. Even with the best relationship before sharing... it can become a huge stressor. But in pieces. Bit by bit over time, sooooo gradually that the players don't even notice what they're doing.
I haven't lived with my mum (one of my best friends) for years and years. I left home at 17, moved back in for about 6 months about 10 years later (with my husband and toddler), and have been out, ever since. I haven't kept a 'messy' living space since I was a teenager. Heck, when I lived there my parents were constantly raving about my 'normal' cleaning up. And tonight at a family dinner... I was being teased about how messy I am.
Say what? I sweep and mop every day, wash sheets and towels once a week, wash my walls/curtains/comforters every 3 months. Is my house spotless? No. But I am a very clean person. I NEED clear and open space that is organized in order to be able to think clearly. My sister who was there with us just cracked up and died laughing. My parents were thinking of me 20 years ago. Not how I am now.
And how did I react to the teasing? How I would have 20 years ago.
Schemas.
I'm VERY close with my mum. She's one of my best friends. BUT we need our space from each other in order to maintain an adult relationship. And even then, it backslides from time to time.
As an example you've given... you've told her NUMEROUS times that come Sept1 you'll be moving into a smaller place with just your husband.
Dear. God. Why?
If your daughter isn't mentally deficient... she heard you the first time, and has probably been exploring various options. But you keep reminding her. As if she's a child (10 minutes till time to leave, 5 minutes till time to leave, 3 minutes, are you getting ready? 2 minutes. You'd better be getting ready. It's time to go! Are you ready?? C'mon, are you ready?) This kind of micromanaging just becomes a kneejerk reaction with parents and kids... and it inevitably drives adults insane. They don't want to be constantly reminded, grilled, having their choices judged or put down (that will never work / really? / have you really been blah blah blah). By and large people react 1 of 2 ways: shutting down and refusing to discuss it, or a screaming match.
2 more months. In 2 more months yuo'll each have your own space. Keep in touch on a regular basis... but also give it TIME for your relationship to get back on equal and adult footing.
Right now, it's ALMOST impossible for either of you to recognize the saint at your hearth. She you, or you her. You were close before. You've undoubtedly grown closer/shared good times in many ways over the past 2 years, but are dealing with a lot of friction right now. You'll be close again. You two just need a little space.
I wish I had read this before I answered your last question. I don't know if I understand this - you are moving to a BIGGER house in September in order to accommodate them MORE?
Please tell me I'm wrong. Please tell me that you aren't going to let them live with you when you move.
If you say they cannot stay, perhaps your daughter will LEAVE this man who is using her so shamefully. She may not see it now that you have been her lifeline. She is certainly treating you badly now, probably because of the strain this man puts her under, but she needs to have to deal with him alone, and finally either put her foot down to him, or leave him.
I believe that you are enabling a very bad marriage. She might not want to have much to do with you while she is with him, but if she finally breaks ties with him when they are no longer being held together BY YOU, she will most likely come back later and make amends.
S., get out from under these people. They need to be on their own. She needs to stop paying for all his fun stuff, his child support, his laziness. The only way she will stop doing it is if you stop supporting it too.
Don't let them move with you. It's the only way out for you both!!
Dawn
You need to accept you have no relationship with your daughter beyond being a landlord that doesn't expect rent. There is nothing to salvage at the moment.
Perhaps in time, after standing on her own two feet, she will realize what she lost and come back.
You gave living together a shot for 2 years.
It's time to stop.
She's got a lot on her plate - the kids, working, her husband and his issues.
(Her husband needs to get off his behind, get a job (no matter how menial) and help pay for expenses as well as his prior children.
It it possible he married her just for a green card to enter the country? Maybe she's feeling used?)
She needs to deal with that without using you as a crutch.
And sure she's mad you are taking the crutch away.
Maybe she'd like for things to continue as they have been.
Now she's going to have to work out her life with her husband and they will either find a way to make it or not.
Back off trying to talk to her about it right now.
Once you are living apart for awhile, she might be more receptive to talking.
ADDED: I wrote what's below based on the belief that your move is not going to include your daughter and her family but that they will have to find their own home once you move to another one. Other folks are posting based on that assumption too, but are we correct? Are you actually moving into a larger house and taking them WITH you? Please do a "so what happened" addition and let us all know. I sincerely hope you are not moving to accommodate them and are separating yourselves!
Original response:
S., you have gotten some good and thorough responses, some tougher than others.
You mention the Sept. 1 deadline. That's what I'd like to focus on.
Do you and your husband have your new home lined up already? It's July; Sept. 1 is rushing up very soon. I suggest that you and he decide, together, to simply stop your focus on your daughter and her family for now. Get the new place chosen and the rental contract signed and ready to start Sept. 1. And start packing now. After all, if I were moving by Sept. 1 I definitely would already have the contract in place and would be packing up whatever I could, early. Also, have you begun working with your current landlord on all the issues that must be handled when one departs a rental place, such as scheduling the landlord's final inspection; getting utilities made over into the landlord's or another name; getting the phone company's info about switching your phone when you move, etc? Again, you have only about seven weeks before you move! I would focus on all this and get dates set, contracts signed, and boxes filled. Yes, in front of your daughter and her family.
Only these ACTIONS -- not your words -- are going to bring it home to her and her husband that yes, you really, truly are moving. And when you move, you will not be taking them with you, and they cannot stay where you now are (unless they want to negotiate with your current landlord -- if that happens, have nothing to do with it other than wishing them well; do not provide one cent of rent, or offer to pay one utility bill, etc. Smile and say nicely, "It will be good for you if you can stay! Talk to Landlord.")
Focus on your new neighborhood. Spend time over there, checking out the grocery stores, the local amenties, places you and your husband can do things for fun. You don't have to talk it all up with daughter; that will make her figure you're trying to needle her and make her jealous. But do it for yourselves. Focus on yourself and your husband and your new life free of another family, however loved, living under your roof.
Give her and her husband a written list of specific dates when you have them -- "Aug. 30 -- Movers will arrive at 9:00 to load trucks. Aug. 31 -- Utility company comes to read meter for last time at 10 a.m. Sept. 1 -- Movers pick up furniture 9-11. Last inspection with landlord, noon." If she and husband fuss or fume at this list, smile and say, "I want you to know when people will be in and out of the house, so it's not a surprise and you aren't startled when movers come in." And so on. She needs to understand that the furniture (even in their own space?) disappears on date X. But don't tell her repeatedly -- give her the dates and let it go.
I know your heart is broken that your daughter seems not to want a relationship with you right now. But give it time and most of all give it space. Someone else posted that once you are not living together she likely will come around and be warmer toward you. I agree. And even if that does not happen - you and your husband must have a life together, and interests together. Find hobbies, activities, new friends your own ages through activities or church or whatever works for you. Do not expend 100 percent of your energy (as I suspect you're doing now) on your daughter. It will not change things, as you already know. Perhaps only seeing that you are a person independent of her will wake her up. But do these things for YOU, not to bring her around.
Again - if you are not already set on your new home, you should be, with only seven weeks until your move. Pack right around them. Be gone, away looking at your new neighborhood. If she asks for help finding them a place, direct her to a good real estate agent who specializes in rentals (there are such folks) but do not start hauling her around to house-hunt; she will find fault with everything you do. Help her with information and then be far too busy to drive her around, and do not open your wallet or checkbook. Maintain a very friendly and calm and cordial -- but cool -- demeanor through it all.
I agree with Riley J. 110%.
I would argue that your only hope of salvaging your relationship is to part ways when it comes to living arrangements.
I watched this type of thing happen with my MIL and SIL . . .and heard about it from both of them. They love each other but are much better off apart.
I'm sorry you're going through this and I hope things get better.
Respect is earned and as a daughter I would resent your lack of parenting. You are cutting off her legs by "helping" her so much. You are still the parent. Let her fly.
I agree with the first respondent from your initial post. Restore your relationship with your daughter by demanding she become an adult.
i think your daughter is under a lot of pressure and unfortunately, you've become a handy punching bag.
my advice is, take a deep breath and repeat to yourself, "this too shall pass". she married the wrong man and now she is suffering because of it. either they will work things out eventually, or they will separate. either way, this is only a temporary problem. it sounds like you were close before - and you haven't really done anything, just been a part of a difficult situation - so once that situation changes, things will probably become better.
i would also keep a close eye out when your two families go their separate ways (as far as living quarters go) and make sure they don't pull TOO far away. you don't want him sequestering her and cutting her off from her family. if you have to use your husband to make sure the kids come over and visit, do it. and give it time. she is stressed out and embarrassed that her dirty laundry is right in front of your face - probably the one person she would die before letting down. give her a break. keep hanging in there for a few more weeks. it will get better. give it time. right now what she really needs (what you all need) is space. you can't get it now, so don't try to force the whole mother/daughter bonding thing.
i would also say, any conversations you have with them from now on, regarding living arrangements/work/money, should come from a loving place in your heart. try to keep that there. even starting the conversations with, "you know i love you guys." obviously it isn't working out. no big deal. you change the arrangement. as you're doing. you'll get through this.
I think she is feeling ashamed and embarrassed. She probably sees you as a strong person. Your husband obviously does well for himself and takes good care of you.. Her husband may have been a different person when they met. He may have been a hard worker back in his country. He may have promised to take care of her. Maybe their relationship is on the rocks. Maybe she is feeling trapped and helpless. Maybe she needs to know that you are their for her no matter what. She seems to be overwhelmed. it has to be tough to be living with your mom for two years and the entire time tour mom is watching you taking care of everything while he does little or nothing day in and day out. He seems like he might be the one that needs to be kicked to the curb. If your daughter talks to your husband (I'm guessing she had a good relationship with her own dad) then have him talk to her. Not about moving out or helping out around the house but about how she is feeling right now. Maybe she just needs a shoulder to cry on. Maybe she is feeling so overwhelmed and the Sept deadline is around the corner and she doesn't know what to do. Let's face it, if you are there to watch the kids, so that he can work, but he still refuses, what's going to happen when you aren't there to watch the kids? It will be all the more reason for him not to work. Sounds like there is no end in sight for her. Try talking to her sympathetically. Maybe that's what she needs.? Just a suggestion.
You can't 'help' your daughter and her husband into a good marriage, responsibility, appreciation, etc. They are using you and the 'crutch' makes it worse for them as it is. It was good to help out maybe at first until they got on their feet but it's obvious he is not getting up and on his feet at all. He came over here to be given a free ride it looks like to me. If your daughter wants that kind of life it's her choice but you don't have to support it. You do have to continue to love our daughter but from a grown up point where she is in her home and you in yours and you are there to help out if need be but not to provide food, home, etc. for. It's hard but you will be more respected too if you make them grow up. Be there to help out but that's it and to check on your daughter in a motherly way. I hope the children are cared for and yet that's their job and her husband needs to do his part.
Right now you all need your separate space. Once you move to your new location you can salvage that relationship.
Cultures and customes are different and you didn't say what country he came from. But we are in America now and things are different. I wouldn't be paying for someone else's children in another country and I sure as hell would be paying for all the luxuries while living in my parent's home.
Make sure your lease states you and your husband with a 14 day visitor's clause so that you are not in this same boat in your new locale.
You are both adults and as such you may have to mourn the loss of the closessness you both once had due to the husband. Know that she does still love you but has her plate full.
Good luck stand your ground and know that you did your best to help her but it now time for her to stand on her own two feet.
The other S.
I think you can reach a happy medium between talking for hours daily (definitely not necessary, some independence is needed on both sides) and her being so argumentative. Clearly, the stress of the finances and feeling that she's trapped into living with you and hubby is leading to some issues. While she doesn't have to fall all over herself to thank you every moment of the day, if she's living at your place for free, she needs to be cordial as she is not entitled to live there, you are accommodating her. Throw her and her family out. They'll figure it out. Why would you watch her baby to give the husband a break to do fun things? He needs to get himself out, get a job and not have his wife supporting his other kids. You have too much knowledge/involvement in their life and I'm sure she resents it. I would be best for everyone for you all to live separately
I wish I'd read this before I answered the other, too.
She is probably trying hard to make her marriage work, and the strain between her husband and you is making that even more difficult. If the marriage is going to work, she has to take his "side," even if he's in the wrong. So until things "smooth over" with you and him (and unfortunately, that also means it's partly up to him), your relationship with her will probably not be as close as it was before. The only suggestion I can make is to encourage her to respect her husband, even if you don't like his behavior (unless he's being abusive, but even then there is not much you can do about it until SHE decides to leave). Maybe even get her a book like "Love & Respect" (by Eggerichs), or "For Women Only" (by Feldhahn) to give her some ideas on how to encourage him in a positive way to be a better provider.
I would talk to your husband, and ask him to let your daughter know that she and the kids are always welcome to come to your home if they ever NEED a place to stay, but that unless her husband is making a real effort to support his family, he is not welcome to live with you after you move. He should let her know that you BOTH feel that way; hopefully he won't give a "your mother says..." kind of disclaimer to it in any way. I don't think she would, at this point, be able to hear your words as loving, so it's best that your husband do it.
HTH!
I think she needs to find another place to live!
Don't have them move with you. Let her have a go of it one her own without you so her husband doesn't have you as a scapegoat or a crutch. Get a small place for only you & your husband 1 maybe 2 rooms.
You live in Washington so give them 20 days written notice now that they have to move out, before September 1st. Do not lift a finger to help them let them do it all. The only way to salvage your relationship is to let her be an adult & do it all for her family.
I believe your daughter's relationship with you will get better when they are on their own and you are no longer there to blame. Give her time to see to expereince life without you running interrfence.
Let her come home from work after a long day to a husband who is not supporting his family. She will get the message.
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/d... Read this book, it will help you alot.
Any chance she feels trapped and used too? Can you take her to lunch or have some alone time with her. Praying for things to get better. love M.
