Dealing with Back Talk

M.-
I am in the same boat as you except my daughter is not quite 4 yet. Please give us an update & let us know what worked for you :)
Brekka

M., I am dealing with the same situation but the girl is 3 (will be 4 in May). She is fine when her sister and two brothers are gone all day to school. It gets worse because the boys like to baby her and also tell her the exact opposite of what I say to her. The last 2 days, I have needed to get daddy involved with it (the Dad is not at home but is very active in their life).

When I used to listen to Parent Talk, they suggested taking away something that is very precious to them for a while until the problem is solved.

T. V.

When my little boy tried this attitude out on me (at about 4 yoa) I told him in my "mean mom" voice that those words were bad words (swear words) and if he chose to use them he would also be choosing to have his mouth washed out with soap because I didn't want dirty words in his mouth. I don't know if I instilled the fear of disappointing me or if he didn't like the thought of something dirty in his mouth, but it worked.

Hi M.,
Since you've already explained him that his behavior is inappropriate, don't explain any more. If you do, he succeeds in getting your attention, upsetting you and controlling you. Instead, he needs to learn that you are a capable adult that will not be thrown by what a little child says. Allowing him to experience his mother as being completely in control of this situation will give him confidence in you, and the ability to respect you as a competent adult. It is essential, if he is to be able to trust you, feel safe in the world, and later confide his own struggles to you.

OK, I know, you need specifics. Think of behaviors as two types: those you want to stop and those you want to start.
They are handled differently. Since this is the kind of behavior you want to stop, instead of getting drawn into lengthy interactions, you should "count" the behavior. When he back-talks, just say, "1," and give him one finger. He will back-talk again. Count "2." He will back-talk again. Say "that's three," and get up, and physically put him into time out.

For some children, this is all they will need. After a few times, he may accept that this is what will happen and stop.

It is ESSENTIAL that you have nurturing routines in place that he can count on. The morning snuggles, bedtime backrubs, and other gestures of affection all day long go a long way towards putting an end to bad behaviors.

However, some children will continue on anyways and test you further. They may even go so far as to trash the room rather than stay in time-out. Sooner or later, most children do push the limits further. I suggest being prepared for this. A great resource is the book, "1,2,3 Magic" by Thomas Phelan.
There is also a version for adolescents. Have your husband read it, too.

Incidentally, expect this kind of thing to resurface later on. You will need to teach your son how to respect you for many years to come! Be alert for the other versions- like ignoring you. It'll happen.

I hope this is helpful to you.

First of all, 4yo are notorious for this kind of thing. They have figured out they have an opinion, they can voice it, others will listen, BUT sometimes it doesn't always come out so pretty! Secondly, they do not always realize the intensity of the words they are using. They hear them, and repeat them. How many times do we say "I hate ......" using hate so nonchalantly? Do they really understand the true intensity of it? And stupid--do they have any capability to know what the word really means? And if they stop using those specific words, they will replace them with others we don't like any better.

So it comes down to talking to him about the appropriateness of his attitude and tone, not just the words he is using to express himself. Yes--he should not be using those words. But you should also be teaching your son to listen to what his voice sounds like, and how it makes the other person feel to hear it. Is is heart in a "mean attitude" when he says things, or happy attitude?

When my son was 3 we started telling him that he needed to speak and act like he had a "happy heart". It stuck. He started saying it too. Even now that he is 7, it comes up. My husband and I will still say "You sound like you do not have a happy heart" or "you are not acting like you have a happy heart" and he knows exactly what we mean. No further explanation is needed beyond that. That is what you want---a lasting impression--something that will stick.

M.,

Something to remember, he is looking for a reaction...your reaction...to the words that he uses. My son did the same thing at that age. He hears stupid, hate, and other phrases we don't approve of, from his grandfather. We worked on a steadily increasing plan of punishment. First offense a sit down talk and lining out the consequences to his bad behavior, second offense a time out, third offense time standing with his nose in a corner, fourth offense the loss of a favorite toy or tv time (but not his security blanket) and time in his room, fifth offense a swat on the butt and time in his room. I rarely had to swat him, but he knew I was serious when I did.

When my son said the food we made for dinner was "Yucky" we spoke to him about respect and warned him the next time he said that without trying a bite first, he would go to bed without dinner. The next night he had to test the rule and we followed through. We were kind and gentle and read him a story, but he did not get dinner. I did make sure to make him a big breakfast the next morning, but one missed meal is not going to harm him and it really drove him the point that Mom and Dad are serious about what words can be used in the house.

Remember, you are the parent and don't have to "put up" with nasty language in your house. If he can't use his manners at the dinner table, he can eat alone in another room. If he can't respect you, he can lose his toys or whatever is special to him. My son once lost tv time for a whole week because he kept breaking the rules every day. Eventually he got the point. Be patient, time and consistency is the way to ride out his testing and inappropriate words.

Good luck.

Hi M. - my son is the same age and he occasionally tries this as well. I think he picked up the word hate from daycare unfortunately. When he uses this time of language, there is a swift reprimand and discussion about what hate means and how inappropriate it is to use. The discipline that works best for him is no tv time, but each kid is different. What we found works really well is that his father and I agreed on a list of 10 basic rules and 5 different consequences. We each sat down with him and went over the rules and made sure that he understood what they meant and then went over the consequences. I think it helped him to understand very clearly what the rules were and what would happen if he broke them. Of course it goes without saying that you must follow through.

Good luck and best wishes.

Definately something to nip in the bud now otherwise it will only get worse. My suggestion is to post the rules in an area of the house - such as the refrigerator. Add the rules of no talking back - saying stupid, hate, etc... anything else you would like. Also, list the consquences if the rules are broken. Explain the rules carefully along with the consquences for breaking the rules to the child, reading them outloud, making sure they fully understand you expect them to follow them. Some consquences I would suggest are to take away privileges. This can be TV time, video games, favorite toys, etc.. for a time period exceptable for this age - probably maxium one day loss at this age. Usually losing privileges gets their attention much quicker than a short time out or time spent in their room. They then have a vested interest in understanding if they break the rules something they enjoy will be taken away.

I would also try to figure out where this type of talk is coming from - friends, preschool, TV shows, other family members, etc... and make the changes necessary to ensure they aren't surrounded by others allowed to act this way.

Hope this suggestion helps. =)

This may not be the popular consequence.... but here goes. When my kids use words that our family has determined to be ugly, hurtful or not-nice words, they know that they will get their mouth washed out with soap. All it takes is just a touch of liquid soap on their tongue or inside their lip to get the desired effect. Then, I kneel next to them and explain that our mouths need to say nice clean words and that if they can't control their mouth, then it needs to washed out. By the time this discussion is over they have had enough of the taste of the soap and I let them spit it out. Of my 4 kids, only 2 kids are old enough to have had this lesson... and it only took 2 or 3 times each to learn.

I would pay attention to the messages he's getting from TV or other people. Those two words are used so often in movies and on TV that we as adults are conditioned to ignore them from other people. A little while ago my son also starting to say hate and I wondered where it came from. I found that I used to use that word with very little knowledge of me using it. When I didn't like something I would non chalantly say oh I hate that. Especially when talking to other adults-I guess because I figured they knew I didn't really hate the things I was talking about. Once I figured out that I and my husband were sending mixed messages by saying it and asking our children not to say it, we corrected ourselves and the problem ceased. Keep in mind that just because he says it with a lot of emotion it doesn't mean he knows what it means or has heard it said that way. Even when we used it casually my son said it with a lot of emotion which worried us. However, I found that when I cleared up my language I was a positive example instead of a negative one.

Hi from L. R. I am a 71 year old retired pre-school teacher and educational co-ordinator. My suggestion is for you sit down with your 4 year old and let him know that you are aware that he has feelings too. Use some gentle guidance rather than discipline> let him know that you have feelings too and that it hurts you when he talks back, also that you have rules and that he is a part of the family and needs to help by following the rules. Four year olds are quite able to follow rules of the house hold. They are also needing guidance with taking responsibility for their own actions.
Have him tell you how he feels when you ask him to do things that he doesn't like to do? i used feeling faces stuck to tongue depressors in my classrooms for those children who did not have the skills to understand and verbilize their feelings. Example: Sad. Amgry. Happy. Scared. Surprized. Have him express these feelings instead of talking back with
I hate you. Let him know that you Love him no matter what and that you know he can change the action but that he can never change the way you feel about him "that you will always Love him. That it is not him that you are upset with but the way he is acting.

I am currently reading the book "Between Parent and Child". It suggests that in all areas of communication you begin with first acknowledging the child's feelings and claims that once a child knows they are understood then he or she will be much better at listening. Though those words are inappropriate and should be addressed, perhaps acknowledging first his feelings of frustration (which is what it sounds like he's expressing) will help him listen to the "those words are not appropriate" lecture later. I have started trying this with my 4 year old and find that it is helping. She is also beginning to talk to me more in general and I like that.

I am also a big fan of teaching children appropriate expressions to use. When my other daughter rolls her eyes at me for giving her a task then I mimic what I'd LIKE to hear from her and add a little humor to it ("Sure Mom. I'd be happy to help because you are the BEST MOM IN THE WORLD!") It makes us both smile and eases up the tension that the disrespect causes.

I'd also get help from your good husband who always backs you up. (That's a blessing.) The only spanking my husband ever got from his father was when he back talked his mother and he NEVER forgot it. I have totally appreciated it when my husband has insisted that my daughter apologize to me for saying something inappropriate which doesn't happen often thanks to him.

Good luck! Hope this helps.

Hi M.~
The first step is to sit down with him and address the situation and tell them why it is wrong and most importantly disprespectful. As soon as my boys started talking and would say words I didn't want them to say I would tell them it is a bad word and we don't say that in our house. They learned very fast and don't say those words. They often point them out in movies to me and are even afraid to repeat them to me when others say them. Consistency is the key. I have very rarely had to put my boys in time out for back talking, but my middle son(almost 4) went through a short phase of being sassy. It was very short lived b/c I addressed the situation "immediately". He went to time out only a few times and then I resorted to the old school trick of soap in his mouth. I would make him sit on the toilet, take a small pump of soap and wipe it on his tongue. He would then sit there for maybe only 30 seconds to 1 minute. He absolutely hated it. I can honestly say I only did this to him 3 times. He isn't sassy anymore. Good Luck! I know it is frustrating. Stick to it and it will hopefully end soon! :)

Back Talk...yes, I dealt with that a while ago. I joined this club, because I help my sister with her 6 yr. old. I can only tell you what worked for me. My daughter is 14 yrs. old and holds much respect for me. When she started to use the word STUPID, I immediately got down on her level. I mean eye to eye. I told her that the word stupid is not a very nice word to use. I told her that I didn't want to hear her using that word. We sat down on the floor and I told her that she has a right to get angry or be mad, but she does not have a right to be MEAN or use mean words. I explained to Chelsea that I loved her and that if she used that word again, I would have to punish her. A punishment for Chels was to be sent to her room. Once the allot punishment time came up, I would go to her room and we'd sit and I'd have her explain why she was punished. Sometimes I was not greeted so friendly, so I'd leave, but before I left I would tell her, I'll come back in a few minutes to see if your ready to talk or YOU can come find me when you're in a better mood. 9 times out of 10, she'd come look for me and we'd get through our discussion. She was 5 - 8 when I used that method. SOMETIMES not reacting to his TANTRUM is better than reacting. Perhaps he's trying to get attention, but in a negative way? Have you ever tried telling him, "If you're going to use that kind of language, then I'm NOT going to listen to your request right now, until you can ask more politely?" Has your husband been part of the "discipline?" Perhaps if your child sees that your a united front...he'll realize that he has to change his language. These are just thoughts and suggestions. I used the time-out rule (in the bedroom), actually my room...so she couldn't play with her toys. 5 minutes was the longest I left her alone. It's important to always get down on their level...physically. Look him in the eyes when your speaking with him. Don't use a LOUD angry voice. It only scares the child and he'll put up a barrier. Hopefully those suggestions will be useful. My teenager is a good kid. My rules have been effective...always. She rarely talks back now & she quite happy too. Good luck.

I read some of the reviews and I don't think ignoring this kind of back talking is a good thing. I feel it will only get worse if you allow him to talk to you or any adult for that matter in such a disrespectful manner. I have a 4 yr. old who has said some words that we do not approve of. I told her that was wrong and I told her next time I will wash her mouth out if it happened again...It happened again and I washed it out...actually she took the bar of soap and washed it out herself. I think it was good for her to wash out the bad words...It was also because she lied. She hasn't lied since. Plus, I think it is important to sit down with them and let them know that you are disappointed in that kind of behavior. They need you to look them in the eyes and know that you care about them.

Some thing else that might help is a Rule Chart. Take him to the store and let him pick out a piece of poster board. Tell him you are going to make a contract with him. Sit down at home with him and make up a Rules Chart. Let him help you make the rules.

1- No saying "hate"
2- No yelling at me
3- No saying "stupid"

Only make 3 or 4 rules. Then at the bottom of the chart Mom, Dad and your son sign it. (even if his signature is a scribble) If any one, including Mom and Dad break the rules there must be a consequence. The same for everyone. This works great. When someone breaks it you go to the chart and read the rules again and say...now we have to have the consequence...and follow through...you have to do this part even if it is the hardest part.

Good luck!

I have the exact same problem with my middle child, a 4 year old girl. I don't know the solution yet, but I do tell her we do not want that kind of ugly language in our home. When she says something inappropriate, she must make up for it by saying 10 beautiful phrases or words. It has made her more aware and curbed the words she was saying for no reason. When she gets upset at me though, she still will say an abbreviation of the word like "You're Stoop!" Then she says she didn't really say the word. I have considered washing her mouth with a little soap, but am not sure about that consequence and haven't tried it. Just wanted you to know we're dealing with the same thing.

Hi M.,

I completely understand what you are going through, I have a little one who turned 4 3 months ago and he went through the EXACT same thing! I did exactly what you are doing - time outs. Honestly, I thought it would never end. I was very consistant and it lasted for about 4 months. I know...a long time. It has ended and I recently told my mother-in-law I finally feel like I have my little boy back. I know children test and see how much they can get away with and can be quite persistant! Hope this helps a little. You are not alone!

Y.

Not sure if this will work but it's worth a shot. Try giving him appropriate words to use. He says "I hate you." Tell him "You don't hate me, you are mad at me because...." Tell him to say "I am mad at you mom."
I put a very small amount of vinegar in my daughter's mouths if they back talk. It works very good. All I need to say now is "If you keep talking like that I will get the vinegar out!" My mom put tobasco (sp?) in my mouth but that hurt really bad. Vinegar just tastes bad.

Unfortunately, kids are learning this kind of behavior from TV. I found my little guy was using phrases I thought were inappropriate like "hot" which he had heard from nickelodean. Shows like the simpsons, spongebob, rugrats and others teach that its okay to be disrespectful to parents. I have always had phrases or words that are not allowed in my house - like STUPID, FART, HATE and others. You have to be quick in responding - when it's said that's disobeying and then consequences. Make it clear that you will be firm about this inappropriate behavior. Consequences can include NO TV, no playdates, no deserts. At 4.5 it's going to be tough but it seems like he knows the effect he's having. You can also ignore him when he repeats at you - it drives my little one to distraction when I start repeating what HE says.
Good luck.

This may not actually apply (sorry), but I recently heard
from my daughter, mom of four 0-7, that her friend, also
with four kids 0-6, gives her children a spoonful of a/c
vinegar when they speak in ways that displease her.
I have seen this amazing mom in action, her kids respond
to her (& her husband) promptly and respectfully, and
I've never heard her raise her voice.

It sounds to me like you are doing what you can and if you stay consistent, it will pay off. I also have a 4 yr old little boy and he does the same thing, however, since I've been consistent with how I deal with it, also with the support of his step father, the back talk is subsiding. Good Luck and God Bless!

I had a friend with a son close to your son's age and with the same problem. After working with him at home for some time with little progress she and her husband were frustrated and decided to try karate. The difference and change in him was immediate. Karate teaches strict discipline and respect. He now calls his mom "mam" and is much easier to deal with at home. Probably the best outcome is that my friend and her husband are able to show their love for him in healthy ways and he is thriving at home, school, church, and with friends. I don't think this is a "cure all" but has really worked for them. You have to find a studio with the techniques and characteristics you need help with but may be worth the time and money to help you and your son. Good luck.

I don't know that I have any advise, but more comfort that this seems to be somewhat normal. I have a five year old son and a 14 year old son. My five year old started the same habit that you son at almost the exact age.... it still happens on a regular basis even with discipline. I know it is trying and frustrating, as for at least my son, he does this over little things like dinner and cleaning his room... ie: I hate this food, I hate these toys.....

What we have done is not let him leave the table - make him watch us eat. Then he gives in and loves the food and we go through the discussion of how much easier it would have been if he had tried it instead of fighting us.... same thing with cleaning his room.... no friends or threatening to throw away all his toys he hates... and each time he comes around and we discuss it again...

Unfortunately, it appears to be a long battle and at times hard to fight.... keep up the discipline and we can hope together that the stage passes.

Hi M.. I believe that as kids get older they just like to test the waters. He is only 4 though. its important to pick your battles. it all depends on what is important to you. do you feel he is truly being disrespectful, or do you think he is just pushing your buttons and testing the waters? you can generally nip things like that in the bud at his age by simply ignoring him. somewhere he has seen or heard these things that he is saying and it had a pay off. perhaps if he doesnt' get a payoff or a short time out for not listening to mommy he would realize it wasn't worth it. I know the back talk is frustrating, but try to rememeber that he too is a person trying to find who he is and where he fits in. if it is a big deal to you and ingnoring him seems to be unacceptable to you, now is the time to try to discover a way to put an end to it. maybe even taking something away that seems important to him now. with my three year old, telling me no was something new she was trying for about two weeks. I didn't appreciate it and explained to her that telling mommy no was not ok and she would not only do what I was asking because its important for us all to help out, but then spend some time in time out (which is death for her!) well you can imagine that I got a no reply to that as well. so I decided to redirect her when she didnt' want to help out and ingnore her no statements and they just fizzled out. Maybe try both ways and see what gives you the results you want. you're both still learning about each other and what works best for you both. Good Luck! hope I was of some help to you! Can't understand why they call them the terrible twos! the attitude and sense of independence as they age past that can at times be unbearable!

Something I have used on my kids lately is telling them that if they can't keep the rules inside the house, they can go outside the house. Not too much fun with 2 feet of snow on the ground and temperatures in the teens. When they find out I am actually serious, they stop. I have only sent my kids outside once or twice for just a minute or two, but it has left an impression.

My son, also 4 1/2, is going thru the same thing. We have a lot of conversations about respect and how it's not respectful to talk to me that way. I also tell him I won't listen to him unless he can speak respectfully to me. I don't get upset when he says those things because that only gives power to his words. If he says he hates me, I tell him I love him. Also, if he's being really sassy I just tell him, "It sounds like you're a little grumpy right now. You need to go take a break in your room until you can talk to me in a cheerful way." It usually works. I didn't expect him to be like this at this age either! I thought maybe 6, but not 4!! Just let your son know that you won't accept disrespect and be consistent. Also pay attention to how you talk. You may not think you say things like that, but maybe when you're driving you say disprectful things to other drivers. I know I do sometimes. I didn't realize how often I said the word "stupid" until my son started using it all the time. Good luck! I feel your pain!

I completely understand. My four year old uses the same terminology. He takes it a little further though,he tells me and my husband to "shut-up." We've also given him time outs and have talked to him about his vocabulary.Spanking doesn't work for us,with this situation.

We found that these juices work well:

pickle,jalapeno,lime,and lemon work. I just stick a spoon in the jar and I do not gather any juice in the spoon, because the flavor already adheres to the surface. I make him stick out his tongue to lick it or sometimes I have to put the entire spoon in his mouth. It works really well with my son.

Be careful if you have not tried this, they will want to spit immediately. I make my son close his mouth and sit in time out(because he's 4,I generally let him stay in time out for 4 minutes) Then after time out he will receive his water, but if he spits he has to clean it up and sit in time out longer.

I would suggest that when he says "i hate you" ask him "is that a nice thing to say?" and then "would you like if someone said that to you?" Asking these questions make him rethink the meaning of what he is saying. sometimes kids hear words and repeat them without realizing what they mean or how hurtful they are. hope this helps!

Hi M.,
My son is 4 and a half also and he has started this, too. I'm pretty sure he picked it up at preschool. Does your son go to preschool? When he does this I ask him if he would like it if I said I hated him or thought he was stupid? He always says no and that he is sorry. Usually he won't do it again (for awile anyway). I know that his teachers don't allow those words at school but they can't hear everything. Good luck.
Chris

He is obviously hearing the words he is saying from somewhere. If possible, eliminate the source of new information. If that's not possible, try to explain to him that the source is not a nice one (person, tv program, friend, etc.) and it is not acceptable language. I don't agree with just ignoring the problem either because it's not teaching him that the language is unacceptable, it's just teaching him that he's not getting a reaction from you. It won't stop him from trying it out on other people. If you like the ignoring idea, don't just be silent to him, tell him that you refuse to talk to him until he cleans up his language and apologizes for saying it in the first place, and then be silent to him. That method actually works really well when my daughter 3 1/2) is whining at me for something. I just tell her I'm not going to talk to her until she stops whining at me, and she immediately changes the tone of her voice and says "I'm not whining anymore." And indeed she isn't. Then I will listen to what she wants and talk to her as an adult. Of course, when she gets mad at me for some reason, she also uses the phrase, "I'm not talking to you because I'm mad at you." But that usually only lasts for a little while and she'll come talk to me a little later when she's not mad anymore.

Another thing you could try is talking to him like you do teenagers. It sounds like he's pretty smart, and may respond well to being treated like a "big kid." You said you're used to teenagers knowing right from wrong and that consequences are absolute. I believe that at almost 5 years old, your son also knows and understands that his actions are wrong. He just wants to see what he can get away with. All kids test the limits at some point. In order to know that consequences are absolute, you need to find what he reasponds to best and be consistent at implementing whatever that is. If time outs and sending him to his room don't work, something new needs tried. The behavior is disrespectful, and if you don't get a handle on it now, he's going to treat other kids, teachers, and other adults the same way, and that's just asking for trouble. Good luck with it.

I'm a single mother of 4. Ages 14, 10, 7, and 4. One of the most serious offenses in my household is disrespect. Talking back is absolutely not allowed. Not to the woman who works, cooks, cleans, and runs them around to their extra carricular activities (and that's for starters). I've read some of the responses from the other mothers. Just make sure that whatever your decision is, you stick to it. Be consistent and be the boss. You are the parent, and your 4yo is the child. He's testing his limits, and this won't be the last time. When my 10yo was 7 he stole matches from the kitchen and melted the faces of his action figures under his bed. Yes very dangerous, I know. And yes I over-reacted. I also threw away all of his toys. Drastic, yes. But he knew I meant business. We're past all of that now. The important thing is that you make a decision on how you are going to handle the situation. Once you actually decide, he'll know. Be the boss, be firm, be consistent, and be patient, after all he's only four. And if he did learn these words from you, that's o.k. Nobody's perfect. Just be careful what you say. Ask him where he's hearing these words from. Daycare?