Does Anyone Feel the Same as I Do About Doctors?

Oh no, i'm right there with ya babe!!

I hate doctors, , for the most part.
I will only go to a Dr. if I'm pregnant or feel like I'm dying lol :)

You should try and see if there are any good homeopathic doctors around you.
From my experience they are less likely to just shove off a symptom and they always look into vitamins and such 1st.

When I was little, I had a really hard time breathing through my nose. For years this went on. My mom took me to a ENT who said I had to have my adenoids removed. My mom then took me to a homeopathic Doctor, who was also a friend of the family. He looked at me said "do you drink a lot of milk" To which I said YES, i would CHUG it
"Well, stop drinking milk"
I did and never had the problem again. I can drink milk all i want now without a problem.

I'm so glad my mother went the homeopathic route instead of cutting into my face route.
I'm more a fan of those kinds of doctors.

I'm right here too. Most of the time I have myself self diagnosed before going in and it's like pulling teeth to get the doctor to tell me I have bronchitis. I don't go unless I have to.

It seems like they're either senseless, or they try to push you into doing things when you don't feel there's a big enough issue. My last physical the doc really wanted to do bloodwork to see if I'm diabetic (which, ok, I might be.. But so far I can control it if it's a problem) and she was pushing the tetnus shot. I'm not worried about tetnus (I may be crazy, but it's my choice dang it)

i've never been one to critisize my dr, i assume he knows more than i do. however i have never had a mysterious illness, either...

how "I" feel about doctors is, i avoid them at all costs because i think the entire industry is infested and contaminated. i honestly cannot believe that as a nation we have made it ok for someone to charge us $500 (or whatever), to tell us that we have a cold. ridiculous.

ROFL...

Actually, chronic tiredness/fatigue is a symptom of about 300 different things. Now, only about 50 of which are common, then next 100 or so, somewhat common, the next 50 or so fairly rare, and the last 100 or so very rare.

In the first 50 you'll find things like
________________________________________________________
- Persistent Sleep deprivation (most common, statistically most people don't get enough sleep. Sleep dep has it's own range of 50 or so common causes and can range from minor -consistantly missing an hour or two of necessary sleep-, to severe -only getting a small fraction of necessary sleep. The range of causes is fairly wide, from choice/situational to neurological; like insomnia... and then has about 100 or so less common causes, and about 50 rare causes)
- Recovering from / relapsing illness (from colds/flus, to walking pneumonia, to various form of bacterial, viral, or fungal infections of various systems or organs)
- Hormonal imbalances (again, category 1: in women often thyroid, birth control pill related)
- Pregnancy
- Category 1 nutritional deficiencies (aka common ones; anemia, calcium, dieting, anorexia, bulemia)
- Anxiety
- Depression
- chronic pain from old injuries
- etc. for a list totally out to apx 50 causes, some of which have their own 50-100 common causes
___________________________________________________________

The next 100 fairly common = things like:
- certain cancers (of which there are several hundred)
- structural problems/ damage to certain organs (type 2 diabetes, common lymphatic problems, common heart problems, common respiratory problems, etc.)
- less common illnesses (bacterial, viral, fungal -you don't find parasites until the next level of 'fairly rare' causes in this country)
- category 2 (less common) nutritional deficiencies, usually related to common structural damage of organs, or long term dietary choices

____________________________________________________________
The next 50 of fairly rare (less than 10% of the population) causes you'll find 1/2 of yours, so I'll put them at the top

- very mild allergies or sensitivities or difficulty processing (absorb or excrete... BUT not impossible to process, absorb, or excrete) certain common foods or components in foods, BUT this includes ALL types of foods; grains, legumes, proteins, amino acids, dairies, animal lipids, plant lipids, sugars, copper, iron, magnesium, etc. IN THE NEXT LEVEL DOWN THESE ARE MUCH STRONGER reactions and ALL of these have "names", like Celiacs, Wilson's, etc. In this level, they're 'annoying' but not dangerous to health, just quality of life... producing things like tiredness.
- "Common" parasitic infection (worms, usually)
- "Common" neurological disorders (adhd, ASD, anxiety disorders, sleep disorders,
- "Less Common" organ damage or structural issues (Hashimoto's, arterial stenosis, etc.)
- HIV+
- etc.
__________________________________________________________
50 or so RARE causes (in this country)

- Celiacs, Wilsons, Kwashiorkor and other rare nutritional processing, absorption, or excretion
- Malaria
- (and a whole host of other 'rare' parasites from leishmania to giardia to...)
- Amoebas (and other single cell or protozoen infection)
- Radiation poisoning
- Heavy metal toxicity
- etc
________________________________________________________

Now... the thing is... the ORDER of rareity changes geographically speaking. In a certain belt of the world, if someone was feeling tired all the time the leap wouldn't be to lack of sleep and various causes as the knee jerk reaction, but Malaria. In other parts, knee jerk would be HIV+.

Doctors are JUST like parents. They go down "the list" of things in most common order. 99 times out of 100 if a patient says "I'm tired ALL the time." if asked, they aren't getting enough sleep. Which isn't a "simple" answer, because there are a good 50-100 causes of not getting enough sleep, or having interrupted sleep (restless leg, urinary issues, nightmares, panic attacks, thirst, there are dozens and dozens of reasons why a person is having interrupted sleep from a medical perspective NOT including 'common' things like children).

If your baby was crying, you wouldn't immediately call the police because an intruder had come in and pinched them, nor take them to the ER to evaluate for seizures. Nope. Instead you'd touch their diaper, pick them up, offer them some food. (3 most common reasons why a baby cries) if they're comforted, dry, and not hungry but STILL upset, then you look for other causes (fever, teething, gas, etc.). if it's STILL not obvious why they're upset, then you keep going down the list (looking for bumps or bruises, twisted clothing, etc.)

Fatigue is a symptom of over 500 things. Immediately jumping to a fairly rare nutritional problem is the EXACT SAME THING as calling the police or rushing to the ER... it's just not the smart thing to do.

Granted, I've had the misfortune to run across a few terrible doctors, but to make the leap from fatigue to gluten and heavy metals is a pretty HUGE leap over a couple hundred other causes.

Of course there are good and bad doctors, but in your doctor's defense it would be irresponsible for him just to order a bunch of bloodwork without first even asking how you were sleeping. Doctors must take the patient's social history into account when they are doing their differential diagnosis. They must cover all bases.

One of the reasons why American healthcare is so expensive is that doctors are so afraid of getting sued for not being pro-active enough that they over-order diagnostic tests and over-prescribe medication.

So after you told him that, yes, you are getting enough sleep, what did he say? Nothing? I think that sometimes they also start with a basic question like that to give their brain some time to start processing the possibilities....like a stall tactic.

Is your doc an Internal Medicine doctor, or Family Practice? That could also make a big difference, as IM's are better investigators (or so says my m.d. hubby.) If you lived in IL I'd refer you to my hubby who has saved countless lives because he catches a lot of things that other doctors miss.

The fact is, doctors have to move people through the office quickly so they can bill the insurance company. They have to balance between not doing enough (and facing malpractice accusations) and doing too much (putting the patient through a whole slew of tests for questionable reasons and/or high expenses). They also have virtually NO training in nutrition and wellness, but more in acute care, disease detection and drugs. So you get vague advice like "Get more sleep." Their regular visitors are pharmaceutical reps who are pushing this med and that med.

The internet boom has created a two-headed monster: the informed and inquisitive patient, but also the patient who diagnoses everything and then wants the doctor to treat that diagnosis. You may be absolutely right about your diagnosis but your symptoms could indicate a wide range of conditions. And if your doctor had 100 people in the last 6 months who did the same thing, he may be blowing you off just as he has dismissed the others.

From my work in nutrition with top food scientists, I can tell you that supplementing with an occasional vitamin or two in isolation not only doesn't work, it's what gets most of us in trouble. Nutrients are not meant to work in isolation but rather in complete combination with all other nutrients. Nature is way smarter than the companies that try to make a fortune selling us endless bottles of individual nutrients (or even small combinations of 2 or 3). As a result, the balance in our bodies is tremendous OFF. The fact that our food supply is depleted and unbalanced is a huge factor as well.

So, you will have much better results if you do comprehensive supplementation with a synergistically blended formula, rather than trying to add in Vitamin B and iron, etc. Being gluten free is a short term solution but it's not the only way to get rid of your issues. I've worked with many people who suffered from chronic fatigue who only got relief when they got into total nutrition and, eventually, away from elimination diets that severely impact their lifestyle and which aren't necessary if you address the root cause of that food sensitivity. That sensitivity is not permanent nor inherent, but the result of an imbalance. Restore the balance, eliminate the sensitivity.

But expecting your doctor to know anything about nutrition when medical schools either give them ZERO coursework in this subject, or maybe one elective, is just pointless! The good doctors will admit this.

I have, over the years, lost almost all faith I had in doctors. Almost immediatly after I had my daughter and lost all but 10 lbs of the pregnancy weight, I started gaining weight steadily until I was back at my highest pregnancy weight. I was not eating more than I had eaten my entire adult life. I was tired all the time, I had trouble sleeping, my periods got weird and irratic. I visited my primary care physician numerous times (she said I just needed to loose some weight and excercise - oh, why didn't I think of that?). My hair started getting thinner and thinner and I just didn't feel like me. I begged my gyno to run tests - he ran some to keep me quiet I think - and he said everything was "normal". Fast forward 10 years - yes, 10! Finally found an endocrinologist who ran the right tests and diagnosed me with Hashimoto's disease, PCOS, vit D deficiency and a metabolic syndrome. She told me that sometimes after a pregancy, your body stays in that mode and your thyroid just goes haywire. I'm being treated by her for these problems, but honestly, I'm losing faith in her too. If I had the energy, I'd probably find a doctor who could help me fix my body using more natural means.
On the flip side, I just visited my old gastro doctor today for a minor problem I'm having and he almost restored my faith. He really listens and sometimes he says despite all his background and schooling, he just doesn't have an explanation for what's going on. Years ago when I first went to him with my intestinal pain, I asked if it could be caused by scar tissue from my earlier c-section. He said - officially according to what I learned in medical school, no - but according to the parade of women I've had in here over the years who have the exact symptoms years after having had c-sections, I'd say yes. Love him.
The truth is that you almost have to be your own doctor. You can't believe everything you read on the internet, but using Mayo Clinic, etc. info will help you narrow things down. Keep a folder for yourself - keep test results & a symptom journal in there. It helps to have records of everything.

My favorite was my pediatrician when I was younger. "Asthma is all in your head and isn't really an issue." Really?!?
My mom didn't fall for that I must say ;)

I don't. People spend an inordinate amount of time and money to become doctors yet so often people act like it's the patient doing the doctor a favor. If you don't like your doctor or doctors in general, why go to them? Why not fix it all yourself? I don't believe in getting angry at doctors. They're not forcing me to go to them. It's my choice. Most of us aren't nearly smart enough or dedicated enough to become doctors yet we can all sit back and criticize. I'm not a doctor, I have no family members who are etc yet I feel very defensive of them. I don't believe medical care is a "right". Why do I have a "right" to someone else's time and effort (blood, sweat and tears in the case of people becoming doctors)? It's a market transaction. I pay them for their expertise. If I don't believe in their expertise, then I don't pay. Of course it's great to find a good doctor and disappointing to encounter a bad doctor but it's like any other profession. Good and bad and the good ones are the ones who should make the most money. Bad ones should see their patient roster dwindle to zero. Nothing to get mad at the whole profession about. If your child is extremely ill, doctors your'e condeming will be the first you turn to to rescue your child and you. You'll expect them to move heaven and earth to save your child despite all the ill will you feel for them.

Btw - I also found out I'm gluton and dairy intolerant. It made me feel 100% better to go off them. But I found this from a nutritional MD bc I know it's not a typical doctor's field. If you want alternative medicine, you have to go to an alternative doctor. Regular bloodwork does not uncover food sensitivities. This nutritional MD also doesn't take insurance btw and is super expensive. Other doctors often have to take insurance so are more restricted in what they do. If they don't take insurance, then everyone screams about that.

I am a veterinarian, so in a way, I'm on the other side of the coin. I'm not sure if this totally holds true for our human counterparts, but I do know that there are good vets and there are bad vets out there. There are vets that stay on top of the latest research, who are more proactive with diagnostics and getting to the bottom of things so to speak, and others that are not so progressive and tend to stick every pet on antibiotics and steroids for everything. Sometimes it takes someone looking at a case with a fresh pair of eyes and a different set of experiences. I spent 10 years practicing in Massachusetts and we saw Lyme Disease in dogs left and right - it is extremely common out there. Here in lower Michigan? Not so much. But I've seen a few dogs here that have seen other vets before me with all the symptoms of Lyme, but no one has recognized it, probably because they just don't see it that much, or really, EXPECT to see it. So I come across like some kind of genius when really, it's just because where I was, we saw it 500 times a week. And because I do a fair amount of emergency work, I've learned to sometimes expect the unexpected. But not everyone does, and sometimes what the diagnosis ends up being isn't even on their radar. But "common things happen commonly" and when I had bouts of severe abdominal pain years ago, the doctor I saw first tried me on prescription-strength Tagamet, figuring it was most likely acid reflux but also told me to call if it didn't improve. It didn't, so she said the next step was ultrasound, then if negative, endoscopy. The Tagamet did not help, I got the ultrasound, and turned out it was my gall bladder full of gall stones. Had my gall bladder removed, problem solved.

Not defending bad doctors out there, but I imagine that some are just overwhelmed with the case load of patients they are expected to manage. Some are not keeping up with the latest research, or attending continuing education, and just keep going through the motions. Some just want to give medication for everything, and honestly, I suspect there are some patients that expect a "magic bullet" as well. Maybe some are just burnt out. And like someone else said, just because someone is smart, doesn't mean they are nice people, or have a good bed-side manner. I suspect that many people have become doctors because of the high pay and the prestige, but not so much because they love people and want to help them.

And again, not defending the bad ones, but we are all human too. Doctors of all kinds are not perfect, we don't get it right the first time every time, and sometimes things take us by surprise. We walk a fine line between doing too much and not doing enough, especially since sometimes there are things we recommend, but owners can't afford it since all the costs are out-of-pocket instead of being covered by insurance. There are times when what is decided is a judgment call and it's not always going to be, in hindsight, the ideal decision. That's why it's called "practice".

I agree. I had heart palpitations and the doc thought maybe mitrovalve prolapse. Didn't sound fun! But when I went to my nutritionist, she revamped my diet and put me on a good B-complex supplement and some other supplements, and my palpitations almost completely stopped! Why on earth don't doctors look at the nutritional aspect of many diseases?! It seems like such a no-brainer. Our standard American diet is very poor and sometimes even dangerous (sugar, etc.), and the medical community practically ignores this!
I found an excellent gluten-free cookbook. Finally bread recipes that work! It's called Gluten-Free Baking Classics by Annalise Roberts. If you're looking to save money on gf bread that actually tastes good, get this book!

Your not alone, I was shocked last week when my friend (recently made) told me about her daughter. She had cancer at 9 months old. She had all the treatment and was supposed to be better. Well, her daughter was a little older and was acting strange. They had told her scar tissue from a surgery could happen. I guess there was more than usual, but they wouldn't listened to my friend no matter how much she told them. She finally freaked out on them, she laughed and said like a little kid. They took her daughter in and were amazed at what they found. They said had they waited another day she could've died. I was just amazed that they would just dismiss her and basically tell her she was paranoid even though she would tell them exactly what was different about her daughter's behavior and physical activity.

LMAO Katrina A., that is craziness

No you are not alone. Granted I have a great doctor and am actually switching due to him being a far drive for us, but the new doctor my mother goes to is awesome from what I hear.

I had a doctor awhile ago and put in a complaint about his office with my insurance company. I was going through depression, shortness of breath, hyperventalation episodes, loss of weight, rapid heart beat and always tired. When I was accepted to his office (I had to switch b/c my other MD retired), all I ever sawa was a nurse practitioner. I'm sorry but when I pay money, I want to see the doctor not a nurse practitioner. So, she put me on depression meds. I kept hyperventalating and continued to contact the doctor (who owned the office and who I was supposed to see) and he just kept telling me to stop taking my depression meds.

Finally after a few days, I just got sick of it and went to a different doctor (my aunt referred me). He is great!!!! He ended up doing blood work and found out that my thyroid was the culprit and now I just take a small 50mg tablet every day for the rest of my life. Who knows where I would have been if this wasn't taken care of? I probably wouldn't have 2 kids considering your thyroid is a BIG function of your whole system and your reproductive one too!!!!

I do understand your frustration and I am so sorry to hear this. Have you spoken to any friends or relatives about a different doctor maybe they go to that is better? You may end up needing to travel a little farther to get a good doctor. Good doctors are hard to find and I am truly blessed to have one. Which is why I hate to leave him due to distance, but he is so hard to get into and the new one we have is supposed to be excellent.

I pray that you do find a different doctor and definitely a better one at that and when you do, I would surely put a complaint into the office (whether by phone, in person or by letter). I would also call your insurance company and put a complaint into them. Some insurance companies do this so that if they have a member call them asking for some referrals of good doctors, they will see that you had an issue. That's another thing too. Did you call your insurance company to see if they had any good referrals to a different doctor? I know it's going to get very frustrating switching all the time, but it surely beats going to a doctor who obviously doesn't care about you or your condition. He's just reaping the money from the insurance company so you'll go away.

Good luck and hope you get into a different doctor......one that is worth your while.

Medical Schools only want the brightest students. That said, many of those particularly smart people have extremely limited social skills -- this makes for really crappy bedside manner.
I've learned that if I believe I've got an issue, I need to push. Sometimes you need to really push to get them to believe you.
It's frustrating, but Doctors practice medicine... they don't always just have a solution because everyone is different.
LBC

I think there are good, bad, and mediocre in every profession. You just have to keep looking until you find a doctor that will listen to you.

I have an excellent doctor- she takes the time to listen, and doesn't make me feel like I have to explain my symptoms in 60 seconds or less. Don't give up because you haven't had good experiences so far. My experience has been, if you know any nurses, ask them who they think are the best doctors. That's how I found my doctors, and have been happy with the ones recommended to me.

Best wishes :o)

I do and I have heard the same thing time after time. My daughter was very ill during High School. She passed out in the shower and I had to call 911. Took her to the ER they said it was nothing and sent her home, went to or family Dr. same thing they didn't even run tests. It happened again (not in the shower) it happened time and time again even while she was on the way to school one morning but by the Grace of God she felt it coming on and managed to pull over. Anyway we finally got her in to specialists, heart, neuro, and had test after test ran. They found nothing wrong. I had to do my own research and come to find out she had Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome which there is no pill for so Dr's won't diagnose it as such it can lead to epsteine barr or chronic fatigue. A friend I met through my Home based business company was a nurse she had me order a Hormone Saliva test not one of our Dr's would read the test (I think they didn't know how) my friend did it for me and wrote a 16 page report she told me that I saved my Daughters life by having her use our balancing cream she prescribed massive doses of a lot of vitamins. It was a nightmare and not one Dr. helped. I get tired of going and having them say it is normal you are a woman you are stressed you need to rest etc. I am right there with you about this. I have known really good caring Dr's but there are not a lot of them out there. Good Luck to you and unfortunately you need to research for yourself then insist on the tests.

You are not alone in the slightest. I also don't like it when they simply don't listen. I have had several doctors want to do a sleep study. Those things are very expensive and they are like 600 dollars out of pocket. I have to get up and go to the bathroom every hour on the hour. There is no choice or I'd be incontinent. I'm not wearing a diaper for the study and I've talked to people at the study. They wouldn't get good results having to unhook me everytime I need to pee. I also need to use meds at night for my chronic stuffy nose. So I don't need a sleep study to show that I don't get good sleep and if you HAVE to have a study to try a CPAP machine...or whatever that's called, then I guess I can't try one. When I tell these doctors why I can't get the studies they just shrug like it's my fault that I'm not able to do them and my case is a little different.

I tried the gluten free diet for many of the same reasons you are doing it. It didn't help me. I thought maybe it helped a little at first. But I think it was the placebo effect. I just wanted it to help.

I do my own medical care and research. I go to doctors for a second opinion, or to get access to tests and prescriptions that I can't do myself. My doctor is a partner in my health care, but I am the leader. I make this clear from the beginning of our relationship, and don't accept any doctors who can't live with this.

Many doctors seem to be relieved. I don't expect them to be God, or to give me sure answers. I understand that their diagnoses are generally just "best guesses". We brainstorm together, research together, guess together, collect data together and eventually come to conclusions together. The doctor also feels free to say "Well, I'm stumped. I think you need to see a specialist." On one occasion I actually had a doctor say "I think you actually know more on this subject than I do. So, um, follow your own advice and see whatever specialists you think might be helpful."

This approach of partnership has generally resulted in excellent health care. When I have yielded my opinion completely, it has often resulted in wasted time and money. In one case it also resulted in an allergic reaction to a medication I didn't need in the first place.

Regarding your specific experience: most of this country is severely sleep deprived. His reaction was not unreasonable. You'd be surprised how many people come in complaining of chronic fatigue who are getting six hours of sleep a night.

As I heard a doctor recently explain, they are trained to assume if they hear a galloping noise, it's probably a horse. It might be a zebra. It might be a snake in high heels. But they'll assume it's a horse until other data presents itself.

If you aren't getting enough attention from your doctor, it's time to switch physicians. I LOVE our doctors, but it took a lot of time and research/ interviewing to find people who made me feel "listened to". We even found a pediatrician (private/solo practice) who makes house calls and has Saturday "emergency hours" in the office b/c he doesn't believe that an ER is a good place for sick kids. LOVE HIM- interviewed 6 pediatricians when I was pregnant and finally found one who didn't think I was a loon for wanting to meet him before my child was born!

I'm fortunate to have an outstanding doctor and physicians assistant now - both are great listeners, very thorough, responsive, really gives you the sense that they care about each of their patients as individuals. but my "um, really??" medical moment came about 15 years ago when I went to a different doctor for help with seasonal allergy symptoms - since childhood I've had hay fever allergies that will occasionally trigger asthma symptoms. And the best suggestion this doctor had was along the lines of "since the pollen and other plant allergens trigger these reactions, don't go outside so much" :-p

Have you ever considered going to a DO? (Doctor of Osteopathy) These doctors attend the same amount of rigorous medical school, but are specially trained to treat the whole person & some use chiropractic techniques to help them diagnosis.

I made the switch to DO's many years ago after being frustrated with several up-tight, poor bedside manner, push meds type MD's. I have been very happy with our DO's.

I think they have to rule out the simple stuff because not everyone is as well researched as you. Try not to take it personally. Those drs have to talk to grammas, who never learned to use the remote control and think blood letting is a good idea, Or that having low blood sugar means you need to eat more sweets! Asking her if she is getting a good nights sleep would be a logical place to start!

I got "it's just stress" a few times when trying to describe symptoms. I have not found a doctor I like since my PA moved to parts unknown years ago. Well, I like my dentist and my OB/GYN, but for a PCP, not yet. Kaiser keeps changing doctors on me and it doesn't matter b/c I never see them unless I'm sick. To be fair, the pediatrician is awesome. But DH and I are not impressed with our own care. DH often has to press for things he needs. I say be an advocate for yourself. If you need to be a squeaky wheel, then be one.

Also have your thyroid tested. He definitely should have suggested that.

Hypothyroidism is very common and can cause extreme exhaustion.