I am a mom of a very wonderful independent and strong-willed daughter. She is almost 3yrs.
She has a younger cousin that is 2 1/2yrs. They fight like any normal siblings would but, my daughter is much stronger and tends to push, pull, knock down and hit her younger cousin who naturally looks up to her older cousin and takes it really personal and gets really upset. My problem is that for the first time my sister-in-law put my daughter in time out because she hit her cousin while they were dwonstairs and both admitted what had happened. I was not aware that the timeout had occured until my sister-in-law brought her daughter up and had her help set the timeout timer. I do feel she should have gone in time out but... I was uncomfortable with my sister-in-law putting my daughter in timeout for several reasons.
1. I was there and I feel that if I am there I should handle the disiciplne of my daughter. I do feel and never question when I am not there and she is in the care of others that she should learn to listen to others and follow their rules. I also feel very confident in my families ability to disicpline her when she is in their care. But, I feel a little underminded when I or my husband are there to do the discipline. I know that if this had been a playmate and not my daughter that my sister-in-law would have let the other parent deal with their child.
2. I was a little uncomfortable with the fact that my sister-in-law told her daughter, :let's set the timer for timeout. my neice was still crying and I feel that my sister-in-law was trying to distract her and make her feel better but, ...
I don't think it is a good idea to let the kids be involved in the discipline of each other. I feel that it opens the door for them to feel justified to handle those situations on their own and that is a whole area that I think can cause alot of animosity between the two.
I know this is alot of information but, I really need to know how I should handle this without making my sister-in-law feel that I don't trust her or she is not allowed to disicipline my daughter when it is nessecary but, I also want to put up clear boundaries that when I am around I am the parent and it is my job to discipline my daughter.
Thank you everyone for your help. It is no nice to get different perspectives. It is hard sometimes to see it from the outside. My SIL and I are good friends and I am going to speak to her about it right away. I really appreciate those who had me look at this from her prespective. Now I feel like I can see it better and be able to have a more effective conversation.
It is very possible that I didn't react fast enough for her. When we play with other friends all the parents try to have the children work it out among themselves first but, I need to remember that my neice is 7mos younger and that may not work with her at this point. So, I do need to react faster when I hear them conflicting. I am probably a little defensive because I am worried that my daughter is starting to get the rep in the family as the bully and my neice is starting to learn that if she cries then my daughter will get in trouble. But, I need to remember that they are only 3 and 2 1/2. Most of this is pretty normal and it never gets out of control. But, I try really hard to talk to my daughter and disicipline her accordingly for each offense.
Both of us moms parent a little differetly. And alot of times my SIL will tell me to stay out of it or tell me not to address a problem that she doesn't think is a big deal in front of my daughter. So, this is probably more the issue. I think that I feel underminded more often so that is why I took this so personally. I need to talk to her about all of this soon. So,again, Thnak You to everyone. It really helped me to keep things on the right track and to understand her side.
A. :)
Look at the Love and Logic web site. loveandlogic.com They have some information on step children and how to get through it.
Good luck.
Grant you, this is just my opinion/experience. I am from a large family. I've been an Auntie since I was 6 months old. Growing up we took disicipline from which ever adult was in the room when the infraction took place. As I aged, if I was in the room and something happened I was expected to handle it. The adults respected and supported each others decisions. I don't remember my siblings or their spouses ever questioning my giving their child a time out. If I have non-family visitors in my home and one of the children does something they shouldn't, if the parent isn't in the room or doesn't respond to the issue, I do.
You should tell her how you feel. My family used to be veary close. And now we hardly speek, because of stuff like that happening. This was a time before timeout where done. And my Uncle would hit my brother acrose the face for anything that he had done. And half the time it was his kid doing wrong. My mom and dad never told them to stop. So now 30 years later they are not as close as they where once.
Hi A.,
It sounds like you have a pretty good relationship with your sister-in-law. This could be your ticket to a mutually satisfying solution.
It used to be that parents had no problem disciplining other people's kids - when I was a kid, if you did something at someone else's house, there was no question, you'd hear about it from the mom of that household! Nowadays, it seems like we're all so politically correct and nobody wants to say anything to another mom's child (while the child tears up their house or lesser crimes...). But, one thing hasn't changed - if two moms are in the house, the mother of the child is responsible for disciplining the child and, in doing so, showing respect for the other mother's household. In not allowing you to step up (and clearly she didn't do this consciously!), she failed to give you the opportunity to be the parent you expect to be to your child NOR the chance to show her how much you respect her, her son and her home. That is something you want her to know - how important it is that you have that opportunity - because, by your question, my sense is, you do respect her.
Perhaps, since you have a good relationship, you can set aside time to talk with your sister in law about your feelings on this - let her know that you 100% stand behind the fact that it's her home and the behavior is absolutely time-out-worthy. When you're not there, her doing the discipline isn't just something you understand but something you appreciate - what a good person she is for ensuring the safety and constructive behavior of all the kids in her home! However, when you're there, you'd like her to respect you have first 'dibs' in that role with your child - that it is important for you and your child to show her the respect she and her son deserves in their home, as well.
Also, I would definitely let her know about your feeling re: involving another child to participate in the punishment - I totally agree that it puts that other child in a power role that isn't appropriate and can certainly create unnecessary animosity. Whatever you decide to do, I can tell by how you've framed your question that you're able to give voice to your appreciation and understanding of her INTENTIONS, on behalf of the children in her home. I gather she had no ill motivation at all, in involving the child in setting the timer - but that doesn't mean you have to agree with this idea.
If you can give her the 'love' of expressing how you appreciate her genuine intent, it will go a long way toward creating a mutually supportive situation that will serve both of you AND your children, as well. And you might also ask her what her expecation would be, if the situation were reversed? If she's not bothered by your stepping in, it may still be she would appreciate your not putting your own child in a position of participating in dishing out the punishment to her son.
We all have our sensitivities - but it sounds like you both want what is best for the children. I can tell by your words that you can easily sort this out with kindness and understanding...that you can easily forge a united front and be a mutually supportive, winning team!
Best to all of you,
-T.
Maybe your sister-in-law felt that if you were going to discipline your daughter to change the offending behaviour, you would have done it already. The fact that she only did a time-out was a favor. It's probably what you would do in this circumstance and she was following your lead. Me and my sister discipline each others kids if we are around them. It's good for kids to know that just because mommy doesn't see it, doesn't mean there are no consequences. It's also good for children to learn that if they don't control themselves, someone else will do it for them, parent or not.
When my children are at a playground there will almost always be a bully or mean kid. They treat my children poorly and if they don't stop in a reasonable amount of time or if the injuries are too severe, I will stop that child without asking the unobservant parent first. What usually happens next is that the previously ignorant parent will come up to me and say something like "you shouldn't be telling my child what to do." Then I have to tell them that their child is acting in a UNACCEPTABLE manner and since the child obviously can't control themselves someone else will have to control them." Then I tell the parent, "Either you control him or I will." The choice is the parent's, but either way my child will not suffer at the cruel whim of another. The point is that the offending behavior STOPS. As the parent, whoever stops it is your choice.
-S.
Hello A.. Your feelings are certainly understandable.
You were present, & they had to come upstairs to get the timer, she could have just as easily gotten you instead. I also agree that the child should not be involved in the carrying out of the discipline, for the exact reason you mentioned. A simple request as such to a person whom you otherwise trust like "Hey, that felt really weird to me, let's talk about this" should suffice. Since at times she sits for you, it probably didn't occur to her to go get "help."
I ran into this with a best girlfriend when our girls were, oh... 5-6. Her daughter had become obstinate & sassy while in my care. I disciplined her the way I would have my own daughter which was a swat on the buns. Just one, to get her attention, & to remind her that in my care she was to pay attention to what I had to say. We were fine after that, & she corrected her attitude. When I told my girlfriend, she made the same faces you might be making, & said, I'm not comfortable with someone else using physical discipline on my child." I simply said "fair enough, just know that I treated her as my own." It was never necessary again, because the child & I had established who was in authority. On the other hand, that same girlfriend, several years later, as she watched my children grow up said, "remember that time..." She said, "after watching you with your kids, & how your kids behave with you & with others.... You may discipline my children any way you see fit at any time"
Opening the dialog will actually benefit you both as parents, & as friends (relatives) Handled gently will bring a greater bond. Drawing a hard line without discussion will build a wedge. so yes, you can set a boundary gently, that is agreeable to both.
A.
PS one more thought. you mentioned the original offense, but didn't ask about options to that. If removing the child with a time out isn't teaching her not to hit, bite, or otherwise batter the other child, you might need to try something a little unconventional with your strong willed daughter. When my kids were little, my son, approaching 3 didn't give a rip about the word "no" nor how it hurt other kids. My daughter his older sister, thin & lean, but 3.5 years his senior, was getting the brunt of his hitting, biting, & what not. Finally I told her, perhaps he just can't comprehend the pain he is inflicting. Without getting mad at him, the next time he hits you or bites you, hit or bite back. Don't bother to come get me first. 2 things happened. First. he found out first hand that the receiver wasn't pleasant & the behavior stopped shortly. But also, my daughter learned how to deal with bullies, so that the 2 or 3 times she had run ins with them, she put them in their places, & resolved the issues with out the uses of "supervision" or even physical force. She has never been in a physical fight... she didn't have to. What this created in her was a mentality that she could solve her own problems. This is the kind of independence you want your kids to have. My daughter is now 18, & in college to become a pastor, & the boy, now 15 learned not to be a fighter. The time he came across a bully, he did not fight, because he had learned that wasn't OK. (Then I had to say it's OK to defend your self, but we got the restraining order from the police instead. The kid was bullying everybody, & needed to be kicked off the school grounds.) Otherwise, he is becoming a gentle giant (6.3 ish at this point)and a friend to many in need.
In conclusion, this is just part of the training grounds as their character is developed. This is a good thing.
when you see your sister-in-laws daughter do something wrong you should do the same thing to her daughter the same exact way she did it. Even the whole friendly-timeout talk, if she so happens to cry. if your sister-in-law feels uncomfortable tell her how you felt. If all else fails just tell her how you feel. if you feel silly telling her then you are obviously too uncomfortable with her and you need to get to know her better.
-trying to be helpful person
First off, I disagree with you about her being out of line to discipline her. If the play date was at her house, and you were not in the room, then I think she had every right. By running to you to "tell on" your daughter, she gives your daughter the message that she only has to behave if you are in the room. She needs to understand that if she is going to play at aunty's house, that aunty makes the rules for her house.
If you still disagree, you could always just casually say to your SIL when she tells you that you are sorry she had to deal with it, and next time, she should come get you.
As for including her daughter in the time out, I agree that that was a bit out of line. That is humiliating for the child being disciplined to have to accept punishment from a peer. All moms make mistakes though, and she was trying to do what she thought was best. I'd just tell her that your daughter was upset that her cousin was punishing her instead of her aunt, and suggest that next time she leave the discipline to the adults.
I think we sometimes let our emotions and pride get the best of us, and make mountains out of mole hills (as my mother would say). What your daughter does to her cousin is outrageous and your SIL has every right to step in and protect her child. I don't think I would have a kid around (family or otherwise) that abused my child like that. It sounds like you weren't readily available when the beating took place, so your SIL did what she thought was best at the moment; I think that is more important than her daughter feeling a little justice that a well-deserved measure of discipline was being applied. Instead of looking to point the finger of blame and hostility, I would be apologizing to the victim and making it clear to my child that such behavior was intolerable. Kids get kicked out of daycares and preschools for less than what she does. Your daughter is quite old enough to know better and perhaps your SIL is making a nonverbal statement that she's had enough, if it's the first time she's done it in front of you. I highly recommend the book Raising a Nonviolent Child by John Rosemond. He advocates powerful parenting (such as in this instance immediately taking your daughter home and confining her to her room for an hour when she assaults someone). That would send a powerful message, and with consistency would nip the problem in the bud.
A., I have three kids and my very close friend has two. We also watch each others' and friends' kids frequently. With that being said we "co-parent" each others children. It doesn't matter if the parent is there or not. If my friend catches one of my kids "in the wrong" she takes the bull by the horns and takes care of it. Instead of feeling under minded, I feel relief. She saw it, so she delt with it. The very most important thing that our children learn from this is to respect adults whether mom/dad is there or not. We feel that is an important lesson to learn in life. It also gives us parents a break once in a while. We thank each other for caring enough to deal with these situations instead of feeling under minded.
As for involving the other child in the time out. I do not think that is appropriate. However, maybe you could sit down with your child and see what she thought about that. Get it out in the open, you know.
I hope that helps. Good luck. :)
A.
While I agree with your point on not letting the children be involved with the discipline of eachother, and the fact that your SIL didn't talk to you about the issue after it happened, I do see her side also. If you weren't in the same room with them and didn't witness the act, it is really hard to put everything on hold to bring the child to the parent or the parent to the child, then explain everything that happened. I have a SIL who's children bite and hit and I abosolutely do not tolerate my daughter being bit or hit - she has been a few times, and each time it happened I put my niece or nephew on time out, then informed my SIL of what happened. It didn't take long for them to realize that it's not ok to hit or bite whether their mom was there or not. Of course like I said, the one difference I see between my situation and yours is that I immediately went to my SIL and explained the situation and made sure she was ok with me discipling when it directly involved my own daughter - I can imagine she would have felt differently if I hadn't done that, so you might want to bring that up with your SIL. Extended families can get tricky - I feel ya!!
HI A.
In my world all parents rear all children. That said, it takes a village to raise a child.
If the time out is reasonable than it should be a non isue. There are times that it is better for an adult to intervean in childrens behavyour at that moment, than to take the time to find the mom or dad and have them deal with it after the fact.
If my children got in-trouble while visiting a naber or family they would be in trouble when they get home.
If the disiplin is mean or not appeoperate than a chat with the adult that is out of bounds is needed.
Have a non confrontational talk with your sister-in-law and express your thoughts and LISTEN to hers. Than together make a plan.
No, other children should not be a part of deciding any disipline except there own.
Good communications is the key and openness on all parties parts are a must.
If children are being watched by another adult than that person should have the same athority as you, the child needs to know that minding adults weather a mom or dad or aunt or grand parent is what is expected of the child. It is inportant to back up the adult that is watching your children. If that adult does something that you do not like, take it up with that adult BUT not in front of the children.
Good luck
Instead of hemming and hawing about it... Politely ask to speak to your sister-in-law WITHOUT the girls around. Let her know you felt awkward about the situation and in the future would like to be involved with the disciplining if you are in the house. Be honest and tell her you were worried she might take it the wrong way, but you feel it's in the best interest to get it dealt with.
Also consider from her perspective, she could feel like maybe you haven't done enough since your daughter is "aggressive". I'm not saying that would be a correct perspective--but maybe one she is feeling. Perhaps it would be a good time to start a dialogue about how the two interact.
I do agree that your neice should NOT have been involved in setting the timer. Is the timer even necessary?? If someone is putting a child in time out, they need to show their dedication to the process by timing it and telling the child when the time is up. It sends a much more powerful message to the child than knowing, "the bell rings and I can get up."
I think your concerns are absolutely legit. I don't believe it should be anyone elses job to dicipline when you are there. That is ridiculous. I have had this happen to me many times and I can't tell you how frustrating it is. My situation wasn't even an ordeal like yours. I was trying to ell my son "NO" to something and this person thinks it is their job to yell over me to get his attention. I was horrified and have had two ask this person a couples not to dicipline my child.
I would just calmly talk to your sister in law. It sounds like she is very loving toward your daughter and just wants to make sure the kids learn how to get along but just tell her you are fine with her doing "time-outs" while your daughter in under her care but if you are there just let you know what happened and let you deal with it in the best way you see fit. I don't think she will take it personally and I think she will understand.
A., I'm a mom of 3 my oldest is going to be 18 here in a couple of months. I know how you feel.
I have a question for you. Have you in the past disiciplined your daughter for the way she is to her cousin? I know as a girl scout leader for many years that at times I see girls doing mean things to the other girls and the parent will say something to their child and the child still misbehaves. Some times it does take another adult, not being you or your husband, to disicipline your child to open there eyes that this kind of behavior is not allowed.
I do think after your sister in law did this she should have come to you to let you know what has happened and what she has done. Maybe you can talk to her about how you felt and that next to come to you right away. Or at least ask you to sit in as she talks to her. Just so you can see and hear what is happening.
Hope this helps. ~T.
What did you say as this was happening? I ask this only because i have been in this situation before only I was in your sister-in-law's place. I had to take the initiative to do the disciplining (time-out or separation) because it was in my home, my children's well-being was compromised by the cousin's behavior, and the parent was doing nothing.
When the parent does nothing,we are put in a compromising and awkward position. We need the children to know the rules of the house, because consistent boundaries are important-- especially if we regularly watch the child. It is true that your sis-in-law took a certain liberty because you were family. This happens a lot among family. I would talk to her about it. Say you are sorry she felt it necessary to handle the discipline for you, but next time, you would handle the job, since you're the mommy after all. Don't heavy out as if it were the end of the world, but make your feelings clear.
I think you should follow your own advice exactly as you laid it out in your query. Your boundaries seem solid and avoid any blaming. I would just talk to your sister-in-law and tell her how the situation made you feel, owning your own side of it and asking for what you want (you do the discipline when you're there, and keep the kids out of it). Good job on being clear with all this!!
I agree with everything you said. Definitely set the clear boundary that if you are there, you should handle discipline. I also have a very intrusive sister in law and unless I am crystal clear, she will do as she pleases.
Send her a note if you can't talk in person to say that you want to handle discipline when you are there, and that you definitely do not want children participating in the discipline of each other.
Especially sensitive people (as in my experience) may react badly, but it's more important to have your daughter's security than not to hurt someone's ego.
You can say that "I'm sure it was well meant, but from now on we have an agreement"
I do know a family that inter disciplines, but they are comfortable with it.
I completely agree with you.
You were out of the room...right? There was an altercation, SIL placed your DD in timeout immediately...I would have done the same. SIL only flaw was instead of coming to you and letting you know DD is in timeout for this reason, she was letting her DD set the timer. That I don't agree with. That is like saying "na na na na".
I agree with the Karen K. If you are okay with the course of discipline used by family members while you are gone, then their judgement should be okay even in your presences. Then again, you weren't physically present.
Hi A... First, I think you should talk to your sis-in-law about how you feel, & see if you can agree on a plan of action for future instances. But, you said your daughter is the aggressor, so she needs to learn that bullying is unacceptable & will not be tolerated, period. I think which ever adult is first aware of the situation should handle the disipline, so that consequences will follow action as quickly as possible. Then after her timeout is over you can talk to her about why aunty needed to put her in time out.
It sounds like you guys spend alot of time together and that is great, but if something makes you uncomfortable you need to let her know. Obviously she feels very comfortable with you and your daughter or you would not be in this situation at all.
I too spend alot of time with another mother and her kids and at times they fight like siblings....there are times where she disciplines my children, and vise versa, but we do not punish eachother's kids if the other of us is there. ( loss of privilege, time out and so on) Discipline simply means to make a disciple of or to teach. There are also @ times safety issues that need to be dealt with by who ever is closest @ that moment. Also @ times reminders to pick up and those sorts of things from whomever is noticing, but as far as enforcing consecquences it is the parent unless the parent is not there. Perhaps you could have an arrangement like that.
I also agree that no child is in charge of disciplining
another and likely if she thought about it she agrees too, sometimes we make fast decisions when we are in the heat of the moment.
When you do talk with her take responsibility for your feelings and the situation in any way you can and ask her if you have done things that make her uncomfortable in the past as you may have as well. Be sure not to blame, but also be sure to set clear boundaries.
if i were you i would put it to you sister in law the same way you put it to us. you aren't upset about the time out, and infact agree with it. however you were in the house and should therefore have been involved. and i agree that involving children in the disapline of each other is a slippery slope. while i can understand wanting to distract the crying child, i don't see any reason for bringing said child in on punishing the other. i have a 2 year old son and don't see how that could help. and personally if my child were hurt by another, and the other child's parent were availible i would rather concentrate on making my child feel better, so i think i would call the other parent to handle the other child. if you and your sister in law get along fine there shouldn't be any reason not to bring it up like you did with us.
It seems to me that if you were not aware of the fighting going on, your sister-in-law was on the spot and dealt with it immediately. Your daughter needs to know immediately when she has crossed the line of acceptable behavior. Since time-out is a very mild response, I do not see that you have any reason to object to your daughter being disciplined by another adult who was closer than you were. Why weren't you aware of the fight? If this is the first time that your sister-in-law took the discipining in hand herself, it sounds like she is getting tired of waiting for you to deal with it. Stop whining about who is the appropriate person to do the disciplining--be thankful that your daughter is being told, in no uncertain terms, that her behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
In the future, you and your sister-in-law need to discus what is the appropriate response to your daughter's misbehavior. That way, you have pre-approved the discipline taken.This isn't about you;it is about your daughter's poor behavior. If you balk at mild disciplinary actions being taken, your daughter may soon have no playmates willing to be with her.
Long term, what are you doing about your daughter's behavior? It doesn't sound like you are taking steps to curb her behavior or to teach her self-control. There are anger disorders, and three is not too early for them to begin manifesting themselves. My youngest has such a disorder and by the time he was five, no one would play with him, not even his siblings. We finally had to bring him in to a pediatric psychologist who was enormously helpful.
Again, this is not about you and your authority. It is about your duaghter's need to be taught clear boundaries. If you won't do it, she will be very lonely. Sounds to me like you might get very good advice from your sister-in-law on how to haandle your daughter.
Good luck!
Sticky situation, that is for sure! I can tell that your relationship with your sister-in-law is very important to you, and I agree that you'll need to tread lightly. I would ask your husband what he would do. I guess I assume this is your husband's sister. She may not be! Anyway, husbands love to help their wives solve problems, and often approach problems with less emotion, which it sounds like this situation needs an answer that isn't charged with emotion.
I would make sure that when the girls are playing together that you stay super involved with them. Kids need to learn HOW to play together nicely. They don't learn this on their own! I have a son and take care of 3 other kids full time, and it is an ongoing teaching opportunity. Three of these kids are 4, and they play wonderfully. They certainly have their moments, but it is so much better than when my sisters and I were their age. Keep involved.
As far as your sister-in-law having your niece set the timer, I think you're right. When there is an offense done at our house, the kids make up, and then time out is done. At that point the other kid is involved somewhere else. When you are taking care of kids on your own it is so much easier when you've got another parent involved!!! Good luck!
I think you answered your own question. You should set up boundries with your sister-in-law so it doesn't cause any animosity between the two of you. Is there any chance that you let your daughter get away with a lot since it sounds like she is a bully to the younger cousin and that the sister-in-law feels you don't discipline so she took into her own hands? I don't mean to sound rude or too direct. I will agree with you that it was a little melicous to include the cousin in setting the timer. But it is amazing what we can accomplish when we talk it out. Good luck.
I believe it was ok for your SIL to put your daughter in time out. You were not present where and when the incident happened, even if you were in the house, to discipline your daughter right away. When dealing with young children discipline for misdoings must come right after the fact or the point is lost. Your SIL must protect her child, but it wasn't okay for her to allow her child to set the time out timer. It should have been up to you how long your daughter sat in time out after being informed of the incident in question. I would make that the point with your SIL. Also, you may consider how you are discipling your daughter when she hurts her cousin, maybe your SIL thinks she needed to step in to protect her child.
Most the time this situation happens because there are parents that believe in instant discipline. She probably jumped in because she thought you weren't reacting fast enough.
Even if that is not the case, I don't think she should have involved her daughter, and I hope you can find an unthreatening tone and stance to communicate to her what you've told us. Or at least be on your gaurd when you are there with her next time she tries to discipline your daughter and just step in and nicely say excuse me sis-in-law, and maybe say to your daughter, "Well I agree with your auntie that what you were doing was wrong,..." and take it from there.
I have a sis that is a elememtary school teacher and it often happens to me at her house. I have just learned to react quickly. Now after many years, she has relaxed and even makes comments to imply that I am being to harsh.
I wish you the best!
J.
I am one to believe that "it takes a village.." I have had good friends (people I'd certainly consider family) discipline my children and vice versa. I think it is great as they instantly understood that it wasn't just mom that didn't approve of their behavior, but society as a whole. That discipline was certainly limited to a talking to or a time out, and usually when I wasn't present or perhaps busy and didn't hear what happened.
Open communication certainly is the best policy. One of my closest friends recently told me she thought it was important that my 12 and 14 year old have an adult confidant and told me if they came and talked to her about things ie. Sex or drugs she would not share the info with me. I had to let her know I was not comfortable with that and if they came to her, she should encourage them to come get me and we could all have a discussion. Our friendship survived the discussion because in the end we trust and believe in each others
decisions. You may also want to consider your SIL feelings. I have four children and did't want any of them having playdates with children who had violent behavior-because behavior is so easily learned. Maybe she wanted to show her daughter that if she ever chose to behave this way there would be a consequence. Good uck!
I feel you have good reasoning for the way you feel and think. You should be honest and let your sister-in-law know exactly how you feel. She doesn't have to agree with it but as long as you are there she has to abid by it.
I think if you trust your sister in law... or other family... to discipline your child when you're not around, then you also trust them when you are around. If it's not a matter of you disagreeing with the punishment, then I don't see the problem. You mentioned that you want your daughter to learn that when you're gone, they have to listen to the adult that is there watching her... does that mean if you're there, that she doesn't have to listen to them? The rule in my house is "my house, my rules". I will discipline any child that walks into my house. Granted, I am very easy on kids that haven't been here before, but the more they are here, the harder discipline gets when they do something against the rules. I have actually grounded my daughters best friend from stuff at my house, including her own cell phone. I have two children that think that when their dad walks in the room, no one else can tell them anything... daddy is there to save them. Trust me, you don't want that. It creates a kid no one wants to deal with!
I do however, agree with you that the other child should not have been involved in the discipline. That is teaching the other child to have control over the discipline and that is wrong also in my eyes.
I do agree that the cousin should not have been involved with the discipline. However I don't think it was that bad that she put her in time out. If she hurts her cousin a lot she should probably be put in time out each time as should her cousin if the cousin hurts her. Kids need to be disiplined by all family members and anyone who cares for them so that they don't think that mom and dad are the only ones that can discipline them. If it does bother you that she didn't wait to tell you about the situation and have you discipline her then you should definately talk to her about it. If you don't it will be seathing in the back of your mind and when it does come out you may say if in a way that makes her feel defensive. Think about a way of doing it without being accusitory and get it out.
no child under the age of discipline by a parent should be 'in charge, nor help with' the time out or discipline of a peer. in your case, since both are extremely young and have an ongoing history of 'battery', both should have had a time-out and/or been disciplined together. perhaps you could let them know that if they continue this behavior, they will NOT be allowed to play together anymore, since the Play is not fun for 3 out of 4 people...duh.
Hi A.! There is nothing unusual with you feeling uncomfortable with this situation, but I think that the way you deal with it could make all the difference. I would first talk directly with the sister-in-law, in a non-confrontational way explain my feelings, and more than likely she will understand, she was probably frustrated at the time. Ok, not cool to let kids get pleasure from anothers discipline, that sends way bad signals. So lets say she isn't a reasonable person, ask her if it is ok to also punish her child if you see her doing something wrong, even though she is there, I mean after all....LOL Now about your daughter, she should recognize she is bigger, and that even by accident, she can hurt someone and you know she doesn't want that. This is a one day at a time issue, and you may have to minimize contact for a while, but not completely, that also sends real bad signals! Have faith, and good luck, R.
I would talk to her about the situation. Let her know you are aware your daughter is more assertive and you aware of and working on the aggressive behavior she is displaying. It is appropriate to let her know you trust her discipling your daughter when you are not on location, but when you are there you want to take care of it. In the future you would like to be notified if something has occured so you can be consistent in talking to your child and disipling her with what you have determined will be done. It is also okay to let her know you feel badly her daughter was hurt/hit or whatever, but that you do not feel it okay for her daughter to be part of the discipline procedures (ie helping set time out timer), in fact this might add to your daughter's frustration and misbehavior with her cousin.
Finally, I would assure her that her and her daughter's relationships with your family are priceless to you and you are committed to helping your daughter learn to be gentle and to be a good friend, and that you hope your SIL will be patient with you both as you are teaching and our daughter is learning.
Good luck!
A. C
A little about me: I am married into a family of 8 adult siblings (over 25 years now), and am an early forites mom to six children aged 24, 23, 21, 19, 16, 2.5
I think you were totally right in your feelings ... if you are there then it is your job to discipline your child. The only thing I have to add to the others' comments is that I heartily recommend talking to your SIL before it becomes a "mountain" rather than the "molehill" it is now. I say this because I've had the same situation with some friends that have twins the same age as my son and now I don't really like going to their house because of the way the wife jumps in to discipline my son (even if I'm standing right next to her) I should've said something a long time ago! Now it sort of seems too late to bring it up. Anyway, good luck!!
-M.
A.,
I know what you are saying I have hade the same issue with one of my family members too in the fact of having their child being apart of the disipline. I felt the exact way you discibed in your email.But as for your daughter being mean to her younger cousin it is not OK especially at such a young age.I know you said you were ok with the time out so I think that you just had to talk to her and explain where you are comming from about bring her daughter in on the disiplineand to ask you to set the timer while she calms her little one down. So maybe your sister in Law didn't relise how she made you feel because all she saw was that you are allowing this to happen.I hope that you find away to talk it out with just the 2 of you and no one else around so she doesn't get on the defensive side and neither do you. We are not perfect parents and some times we all need help and advise on how to even fix things or how to help our own children learn how to grow into happy healthier children. Good Luck I hope it all works out.
J.
J.
I do agree that including the other child in the discipline was a bit inappropriate but I do not think your sister -in-law was out of line in discipling your child at all. I think that if her daughter went to her and said that her cousin hurt her that it is completely okay for her to discipline her as she would if your were not there it lets your daughter know that the rules are the same whether you are there or not and by backing up your sister-in-law you are showing your daughter that her aunt has the authority to do so and that you are not going to "save" her. If my child's cousin was continually rough and hitting my daughter I am not sure I would continue to let them play together until the other child learned not to hit so a time out given by a relative who you say you trust is not undermining you it is just convenient. I would not read to much into the motive.
I think you are being overly sensitive. If you were there than you should have put her in time out. If you were in another room I do not see a problem with your sister-in-law doing it, she seems to have done it responsible. So do not make it a big deal and just have a closer eye on your little one and think about how you would feel if roles were reversed.
I think you have very valid clear concerns. I think that you should be able to just tell her exactly what you have stated here. If she isnt a good listener & comunicater or is defensive then maybe an email or letter would be best. Just tell her the positive of the situation first then the part that made you uncomfortable and make sure she knows that she can tell you anything that bothers her about you or your daughter. Make sure she is validated for her decision but that next time you wish to be brought in on the decision as long as you are there. The point of her daughter being involved is i think very valid also. If she is a thoughtful understanding person she should totally get what you are saying.
These are very personal issues and any response would actually require having a lot more information about what happened. Therefore I would suggest that you just speak with your sister in-law openly about the situation and how it made you feel. She's a mom too, and family to boot, so of course she had both kid's best interest at heart. You two should work together to figure out how to deal with these kinds of situations in the future and what you would expect of eachother.
I tend to feel the same way. But, if you were not in the room with her when the incident happened it is basically the same as not being there. I think that is probably what your sil thought. If you were in the room when it happened, then you are totally justified in politely saying, "Jane, I can handle this, but thank you for trying to help".
I was a younger sibling and I can testify to how incredibly hurtful and harmful long term it is to let them fight like "any normal siblings". Please foster their care and concern for each other by encouraging them to protect and help each other, not argue and cat fight. To that younger one, the older one is everything. If she bullies her, it could cause long term aches and pains between them and cause insecurities in the younger one that could be very hard to get over.
PS. I totally agree that having the younger one help set the timer was way out of line! Give her a cookie or something, but she shouldn't have let her help with the "firing squad". That was in bad taste.
Sounds to me like you already figured it out. Just talk to your sister in law and say just what you wrote. It's important for you to have clear boundaries. Let her know you trust her to handle things appropriately, but when you are around you want to handle it. I think it gets hard for kids living in close families because they end up having so many adults to answer to. That is definitely the case in my family and I've had to have similar conversations with my relatives. It just simplifies it for your kids and your family. Maybe your sister in law doesn't feel you react quickly enough? We all get pretty protective over our little ones, especially if they are being pushed around. I would just talk to her and find some common ground. Most likely she just felt comfortable because she knew you would agree with the consequence and she has had her on her own so often. My guess is it was just her gut reaction since you are close. Good luck! L
I understand how you would feel undermined. I doubt that was your sister's intention; however that certainly could be the result. I would calmly and politely tell her that you are not questioning her discipline, but you would prefer to discipline your daughter yourself when you are present; and that you will have her discipline her daughter when she is present. It's really important that you keep the communication open between the two of you and that no animosity comes through in your conversation. You want to keep her as your ali, not make her your competitor. Good luck!
Sticky situation I can see why you would be upset but then again I see why your sister in law put her in time out.... I feel dicipline needs to be carried out right then and there especially at this age because if you go to dicipline her later she will probably have forgotten the reason why she is being punished. Maybe you and your sister in law should have a talk and set some ground rules on dicipline of YOUR child when she is watching her. I also am not sure why its a problem for the other child to be there when one is diciplined I feel its a learning situation that teaches each child conciquences for there actions but thats just me.
Have you talked with your sister in law about this? Do you know her feelings about the conflicts between your daughters, and her attitudes about discipline? Are you comfortable with her methods of discipline? If you are comfortable, this could be a great learning opportunity for your daughter. You have told your daughter that it is not all right to get physical or fight with others. You have probably told her it makes other children feel bad, and upsets their parents. But this has not stopped your daughter's behavior. Now, she is getting the same message from her aunt. I think the more times she hears that message, and the more people she hears it from, the better the chances are that she will change her behavior. If you want to handle it yourself, then tell this to your sister in law. But, if it's always your daughter being the aggressor, and always her daughter getting hurt, then perhaps you need to look at a more effective method of discipline.
