Follow up from My Summer Vaca Post - How Do You Fight?

How do we fight? My husband runs away and avoids anything that remotely resembles confrontation. If forced to engage, he argues about it, no matter what it is. It's been a long, slow battle to get him to begin to learn to engage and solve (important) issues. Little issues like a mustard bottle, on the other hand, aren't worth arguing about.

Both my husband and I are pretty level headed and logical so we don't have too many arguments. When we do argue, we seem to come to the conclusion collectively (and usually within 5 minutes of each other) that we are being stupid and we resolve the issue.

I can't imagine living with a man like your husband! I would find it intolerable. But, I am glad your family dynamics work for you!

Your husband sounds like my friend's. I get how you don't want to live with him being so mad but look at it this way, until you say F it and do what you want, why should he change? He has zero incentive. My husband have different ways of fighting depending on what it is. I'm a yeller... Not good but I admit it at least. But we get over it and move on and do ok. I also just do what I want when I am being reasonable. Fortunatley my husband doens't sulk or get really mad probably bc I'm usually not doing anything ridiculous. You're not either. Let him sulk and how is he going to make your life hell? Scream every day? Keep leaving the room when he does and take the kids with you. Leave the house. Calmly and quietly do it. Will he not speak to you? Fine. Speak when he needs to know something and then let him ignore you. And occassionaly say "your not speaking to me bc I took the kids on a 4 day vacation after 4 years of no vacations is absurd. I don't care how long you're mad." Honestly, if he keeps going with it, there really is a problem. He's not a giving, fair, caring man. No getting around it at that point. Or - throw in the towel and figure it's not worth battling him on anything and you will live like this until the kids are grown. I do think one spouse tends to give in a least a bit more than the other but this is too extreme and there's also "picking your battles". This vacation one is a big one for you. Mustard bottle color you can give in.

I just answered your other question. My feeling, based on what you shared, is that your husband is selfish and controlling. The fact that because HE doesn't want to go on vacation therefore NO ONE goes on vacation makes that clear. His needs come before yours. Your needs and desires are not important to him. I guess you"re the type of woman who can accept that in the name of "peace" and maybe your one of those Christian bow-down-to-your-husband types but I'm not, and I could never set that example for my kids (you can deny that they don't see it but trust me they ALWAYS see more than you think.)
My husband and I fight, of course, but he is not always right, and he knows it. Neither am I. What's most important is that we are mature enough to agree to disagree when necessary. It's called mutual respect.

S., a long time ago my husband and I went to marriage counseling. After the third session we decided to divorce. there was just no hope.

We went outside sat on a bench to talk about how we were going t move out, split everything.. etc.. After about an hour, we realized, we were no longer arguing! We had learned how to communicate! So we decided to give it another try..

In marriage you are doing things for the family. You do things to make your husband happy and he does the same thing for you. Not because you are supposed to, but because you want to.

Disagreements are not a battle of who wins and who loses. They are usually misunderstandings. or a loss of communication.

You are entitled to your wants, needs and truth. Your husband the same.

You do not point out the differences, instead you accept them in each other You do not have to embrace them, but you do not shove them down anyone else's throat, and it is ok to disagree.

You do not hold each other hostage. This means emotionally, financially or physically. You are free to be yourself with out fear.

No one can control you, unless you allow them to.
You are a mom.
You are a woman.
You are all powerful.

You deserve to do what you feel is right, to speak your truth and to not EVER be bullied.

Your husband based on your posts, sounds unstable. He sounds selfish, he sounds very immature.

He totally reminds me of my father when I was growing up. He admits, he was immature and selfish and had no idea what he was doing. He has apologized and he did seek help. He has now been married 3 times.

I love my stepmother and when my father told me he "wanted to marry her, to take care of her and make sure she was happy the rest of her life.". I told him, "Hallelujah, you finally get it!

There is no reason for you to be worried about how your husband is going to feel when you plan a beautiful vacation for all of you to enjoy as a family.

For you to be so frightened is a huge red Flag to all of us out here. This is NOT normal. This is NOT Acceptable. Until you can admit this, that you are making excuses.. Your own excuses, by accepting this from him, you will continue to be held in an emotional hostage situation.

As another mom asked earlier. If your children were EVER treated like this by ANYONE, would you stay silent? Then WHY on earth are you accepting this?

I am sending you strength and clarity.. Life is too much fun, such a happy place for all of us to be enjoying it, while you accept this situation..

Seek counseling, even if it is only you.. And for Gosh sakes. Go on the vacation, with or without him and ignore his pouting. That is HIS problem.

No more excuses.

We argue and we express our opinions to one another. We get over arguments quickly and often agree to disagree. I at times give in to keep the peace as does he. If he wanted to argue that the mustard bottle is not yellow, then I will say "Ok, if you say so, it's not yellow." Then when I have an empty, washed out mustard bottle I will be sure to point out to him that it was in fact yellow. What I do not allow is for my husband to dictate to me what I can and can't do. My happiness is my responsibility, not his. He can not stop me from doing what ever it is I need to do to be happy. If I need to take a vacation, then I take a vacation, and whether he wants to join me or be happy about it is up to him.

ETA: Have you tried NOT arguing with him? Tell him "I am going on vacation. Would you like to join me?" Tell him the answer is yes or no, and do not allow him to engage you in an argument. If he persists, leave the house.

My husband's not perfect, and neither am I (obviously) but we don't fight much, and I never worry about "keeping the peace." And if either one of us wants or needs something, we try to make it happen. Because we care about each others' happiness.
I can't imagine him shutting me down over a vacation the way your husband is doing to you. If he didn't want to (or couldn't) get away, he would encourage me to take the kids and go on my own.
My husband is a type A guy, very successful and competitive (one of six brothers) but he's pretty good about focusing that energy appropriately, in business, and on the basketball court and golf course. I think when it comes to me he'd rather be happy, and have a happy wife, than be "right" AND he would never be "livid" (your word) because I did something he didn't really want to do.
Why CAN'T you take the kids for a few days on your own? What exactly would make him mad if he doesn't even want to go himself in the first place?
Sorry, but I don't think I would ever be attracted to a man with such a controlling and selfish nature. The fact that you see this as normal is really sad, perhaps you don't think you deserve better (?)

My husband and I rarely argue. Now, I think this is both good and bad. I find that my husband can be really uncommunicative. So,if he has a problem with anything, he is just going to say nothing and act like everything is fine because suffering through whatever is better than talking it out. So, if we are having a problem, this is how it goes:
Me: I am concerned about our marriage.
Him: Total silence
Me: Here are some examples....
Him: silence. Looks uncomfortable
Me: I think we should get counseling. What do you think?
Him: (after 10 minutes of me wondering if his soul has exited his body or something) "Ok."

So the good part is we are both pretty agreeable, the bad part is we both hate confrontation, discussing feelings and arguing. So the communication can be really hard.

Most of the time, if we disagree, we tease about it. For example, my husband believes that depression and anxiety can be overcome simply by...not being worried. Duh. Like, "I am sick, I am just going to decide not to be sick!" We obviously disagree on this. So I might teasingly say, "I am feeling really anxious but we all know I can just decide not to be anxious. Just like I can decide not to have the flu!" and then we laugh and I know I am right and he knows he is right (lol, right?) because there is just no point in duking it out over that sort of difference in opinion.

If we ever do have a big argument, we are both the type that can go to bed and then start over fresh... time heals all wounds for us.

When your mom and your closest friends see the red flags when you are dating then that is a good sign that he probably wasn't your best choice. I don't care how well "you got it" when your mom heard you arguing. Who the heck wants to constantly live defending themself in a marriage??

I am sure he has wonderful qualities...alot of men do that fit your husband's personality. But, that doesn't mean they are the best choice as a companion or father. You and your husband are not setting a good example of a happy and healthy marriage.

I don't have any advice for you. But a marriage that has one person that believes he/she is always right and has to defend themselves and their honor over a darn mustard bottle is in trouble. Sure, you can relent and always go along with him to keep the peace...cuz who wants to fight over the shade of a mustard bottle? But, you are always doing this in most every scenario. That is not a good example to your children.

My husband and I never fight and yell. We disagree and debate on occasion. But I think what keeps our home calm is that I am trying to make him happy..an in turn he is trying his darndest to make me happy. We do things for each other that maybe we personally don't care for...but we do it because it makes the other happy. He goes to Broadway musicals with me...I go to soccer games for him. He sends me away to go on girl's retreats and plans his own weekend fun with the kids for daddy/kid time. I send him away with his buddies to golf and eat non stop fast food. You mentioned in your earlier vacation post that you never leave him alone with the kids but for a couple hours...why?? That is a red flag to me.

I think what is missing in your marriage is selflessness. Your husband sounds very selfish and prideful...not a good combination for being a loving,doting and adoring father and husband. I just would love to get in his head and see what makes him tick...why he has a hard time pleasing his lovely wife who bends over backwards for him. Something in him is keeping him from thinking others could be right...and he could be wrong.

I really wish you the best...it is not a happy marriage if you can't be yourself without fearing the next confrontation,debate,argument and rejection.

I discussed something similar with my husband and I also discussed it with his sister. they both said (separately) that I need to stick up for myself more. So I have been.
I'm wondering...What from his childhood makes him NEED to always be right??
The fact that you've written many posts about your vacation and then cant get your husband to go on vacation.... makes me think you need to stick up for yourself MORE! You have to find a way to be more assertive. It's hard especially when your husband is well meaning, and nice.

Okay so we are all human. And no one is perfect.
But once married and have kids, the hope is that as an adult/spouse/parent... we all mature, in the manner of how we disagree/fight/argue.
Because, there should be, continued growth and maturity and hindsight in how... we manage, our emotions and disagreements and irritations
Ideally.

I am not perfect.
My Husband is not perfect.
Sure we have disagreements and have argued.
We are also from 2 different cultures and backgrounds.
But though we are still not perfect, we both have matured. In how we disagree with each other.
I am not the one that "gives in", nor is he. Per how you said that YOU give in... just to keep peace or you don't want your kids to see you both disagreeing or "fighting."
With me and my husband, the arguments don't end, because one of us has to... give... in.
It just ends. We know who was right or wrong or just a jerk.
And we apologize. We talk about it again, when we have calmed down.
BUT... one thing... I will not do... is give in, simply because I am having to, just because my Husband is the man/or the Husband. In other words, just because I am the "woman"... it does not mean *I* have to "give in." Gender or role in the home, per who gives in, or not, is something I do not believe in. Meaning, I.... will not teach my daughter or son... that ONLY the woman/Wife, has to be the one to be passive or give in or acquiesce. And disagreements... is not a contest. It is NOT, about "winning" or not. I TEACH my kids, that. And I speak to them about it, if me or my husband have a disagreement.
Mainly because, I do not want my kids to grow up... thinking that a girl has to be a doormat or always give in, to the guy. And I don't want my son to grow up thinking that whatever a guy does to a girl in a relationship....she has to give in to please him and it is right, just because of gender.
And I teach them, how to stand up for themselves. Just as my late Dad, taught me.
There is right and wrong.
And a girl especially, should not have to "give in" just because.
And a boy, should never think a girl has to do that.

Sorry S. but your husband sounds like a prick, not someone who is "too smart for his own good." You may win the award for whitewashing! I say that knowing that mine is no prize a lot of the time too, so yeah, I know it's the pot calling the kettle black. This is the same spoiled brat who won't do laundry while you're working and traveling, leaving you to do it all on the weekends, correct?

Anyway...with someone like him who wants to argue over everything, I would just stop engaging. The second he starts a ridiculous argument, stop and very calmly and sincerely ask him what he hopes to get out of the argument and what need being "right" fills. If he continues, just ignore him - don't give him the satisfaction of giving in, but don't give him your time or attention either. Arguing only works with at least two people. Don't be his sparring partner.

For things that actually matter, I would simply announce a new policy shift. Let him know that because of his history of being argumentative, you will make decisions on your own and inform him of them. If he wants a say in decisions, he needs to act like a normal person. The vacation scenario would look like this: "it's time to plan our summer vacation. I would like your ideas by March 15. Let me know your thoughts by then and we can talk things over and pull the trigger by March 31. If you don't want to participate in the decision making process, that's fine. I'll go ahead and plan and you can decide later whether or not you'll be joining me and the kids or staying home."

Fighting in my marriage? Well ours can be pretty unhealthy. We used do a lot via e-mail to avoid the kids hearing or seeing anything, which is unfair to my husband because I can write a dissertation in the time it takes him to cobble together a few sentences. I can also think and talk faster than him so really, arguing with words is out. He disengages because he thinks I'm beating up on him (sometimes true) then I'm still fuming. So now it's more passive-aggression and cold-shouldering and silent treatment. When he's in one of his mood disorder cycles, there can be some bullying posture from him (getting in my space, getting in my face) and I respond very poorly to that. I try hard to recall in those moments that at those times, his illness has taken over and that's what I'm fighting with, but there are times when I just lose it and unleash a string of profanity at him, sometimes followed by hurling something like a remote control or a book across the room. One of the things I've noticed over the years is that escalation from a simple disagreement to a full on war is faster and faster. There is such a pattern of unhealthy behavior built up that we can go from love to hate in a matter of minutes.

That sort of relationship would not work for me.

Don't you advocate in your job? Why do you have to advocate for yourself at home?

If it works for you, fine.

My husband is VERY strong willed and I used to defer to him somewhat. That being said, he is not argumentative. And I've learned to speak up for what I need. And when he doesn't listen he knows I am not happy and that bothers him - just like it bothers me when he's not happy.

Again, different strokes . . .

Hubs and I are both "spirited" and we have a "spirited child." You can substitute obdurate, hard headed, difficult, opinionated, loud, determined, and any number of other adjectives in here.

Each of us concedes, sometimes more gracefully than others. Sometimes we concede by not picking the fight. Sometimes we concede immediately. Sometimes we concede long after the fact. Sometimes we concede when it is far too late to be effective. Sometimes we concede on the small things. Sometimes we concede on the big things. Sometimes we concede on the basis, that it doesn't mean that much to us, but obviously it is important to the other person. Sometimes we agree to table a thing. Sometimes we agree to disagree. Sometimes we concede without doing so conspicuously. Sometimes we concede by biting our tongue. Sometimes we concede by de-escalating things and getting the other a cup of coffee.

People have different dynamics in their homes. If yours is one in which his is the final word, and you are happy with that, or at least at peace with that, more power to you.

Good luck to you and yours,
F. B.

in my house it is often what dh wants. so i get your frustration. I 'm always a bit skeptical when ladies come on here and tell how even steven their marriage and finances are. Makes me think their hubs would have a totally diff story.

i wouldn't even say that we fight much but If i say hey lets take the kids out to the new icecream place down the street after dinner, He will first, not respond, second answer me tersly through dinner, when i say, hon, dishes are done when would you like to leave for the ice cream?, He'll jump up from the couch with a frown and take off out the door ( i would call it blowing up but i think that makes people think he is screaming or hitting) but the body language is there that says i hate everything about this.--
some times i just go and we get our icecream and of course it's a miserable experience for me.

sometimes i try to get him off by himself in the garage and ask why he doesn't want to go, ( often he'll mention somethign that i was supposed to know about say he is waiting for a call, or he wanted to watch a game, but then refuse to cancel the outing) had he simply said hey babe tomorrow night would be better, I would have totally been fine with it. but in his mind I'm the princess and his weird law of chivalry makes it impossible to deny me a request even though the attitude has ruined Everything! and i would gladly take back the request.

sometimes instead of going he will speak a bit harshly and say no we can't do this tonight there is no way he can miss this call or whatever and didn't i know that when i asked before dinner and he didn't respond positively.

Very rarely will he calmly remind me of stuff or suggest a compromise.

In his defense i'm sure it seems like i am irrisponsible and thoughtless not to remember that the game is on or the so and so is calling. I'm sure he thinks i've thrown him under the bus if i mention the icecream infront of the kids instead of asking him privately first. becaue then he wold be the bad guy that says no to his babies.

he isn't perfect and we could sure use some marriage counseling but, i'm not a saint either. and i could have done a lot worse judging by some of the posts lately.
And i'll tell you what, it might not be the best example for the kids but i bet they would see alot worse on the weekends they spent with him and his new honey if we ended up divorced.

i had to go back and read the other question first. and i see alittle bit now why so many responses were hard on you, but really i would take what intenet strangers say with a grain of salt ( even me) because this is one small part of your life.

couple suggestions -- if you do the money can you show him with a spread sheet or something that you do have the money to spend and that it won't take away from some higher priority need? he might need that in black and white.

also if you have a house or a cabin what have you, and it is booked for this year, put your deposit down for next year TODAY while he is willing to stay there, then you have the whole year to anticipate.

if the kids can't stay with him while you get away, is there another family member that can take them.
I know it isn't the same but would a vacation at a diff family's home be a compromise?

did something happen in 2009 on that last vacation? your kids would be older now maybe they could help convince him.

good luck it isn't fun and sometimes you need to vent but i'm sure you have alot of things to be greatful for.

Just on the 'fighting'... disregarding anything else...

I think we are pretty good about using "I feel X when such and such is going on" or "Can we back up a second? I thought we had agreed to.... Are you wanting to change the plan?" We are good at 'fighting fair' most of the time, sticking to the topic, being fairly respectful, listening to each other and not 'dumping' our laundry list of grievances on each other.

Does it mean I don't get out and out furious sometimes? No. But the longer we've been together, the more infrequently those times come about. And we are also good at "we can agree to disagree" (is the mustard bottle yellow or goldenrod? we don't even care) or "let's take some time to think about this and come up with a proposal" sort of thing.

Over my lifetime, I've discovered that some conflicts arise due to miscommunication/assumptions, so I try to ask a question first before getting mad, just to clarify why my husband is doing something which may be bothersome for me, or which wasn't part of the plan. I also think that if we can state "I would like to...." positively-framed proposals, that's more helpful than "I didn't want/don't want/don't like" statements, which may leave that other person just feeling shut down. We all like options! And we do have those discussions about smaller things in front of Kiddo, unless it's about something worrisome like money or a health issue, so he can see that people can disagree and come back together as a team. He needs to see us work things out and to know we love each other, even if we do get frustrated with each other.

Ah, the question may be: Do you fight? My husband and I very rarely exchange words in a fight. We rarely pout if we don't get our own way. Years ago we matured out of thinking of only our own point of view, and tried to get to the happy medium of satisfying both points of view. But I do remember being younger and sticking up for my point of view. I remember angry words, pouting, etc. I'm sorry my children had to experience this. I hope that time, prayer and effort help any couple who is resigned to the stress of winning or losing arguments. Peace.

Really? This after the "he won't let me go on vacation" post? No way in a million years would I put up with someone that had to be right all the time and controlled my actions. Sorry, your husband is a jerk. He does not sound like a "really good man" at all

You are teaching your kids to deal with things they don't like to "keep the peace" and you are absolutely not standing up for yourself when you are telling us that you give in more often than not. So if you are NOT alone, then all women who are in your shoes should pack their stuff and leave. I would never stay in a place like the one you describe.