This is a delicate situation, and I fail at tact often.
Our very dear friend M died 9 years ago this week, he committed suicide. He had schizophrenia, was an amazing artist, and left behind a very confused but religiously devout family (they are Jewish, M's father is a rabbi). We have kept in touch with M's parents, mostly, and speak with them at least a couple of times a year in social situations or through email/holiday cards. We are also very friendly with his sister (who lives out of state), but M's younger brother (who also lives out of state) has removed himself completely from anything regarding his parents. He believes his parents didn't do enough for M while he was ill. It's very sad, actually. The parents feel like they lost two sons. We have known the family for almost 20 years.
Which is why, when they asked to borrow a couple of M's paintings that M had given to us before he died for an art show of his work they organized at a local college, we wholeheartedly agreed. We lent them these paintings about 7 years ago, we got one back (and they generously framed it) but the other is still with them. As recently as last year, M's mother joked with me that she may not be able to part with it. That made me angry, but I can sympathize enough that I just laughed it off and changed the subject.
What would you do in my shoes? I want our painting back. Holidays are tough for me and so I spend time redecorating the house. It would be nice to see that painting on our wall again, but I don't know if I should ask for it back directly, let the whole thing go because of the family situation, wait a few more years, or something else.
Some answers to your questions and clarifications:
They have lots and lots of his work, we got two painting he specifically gifted to us. They know the painting is ours, I really really doubt that if confronted they would keep it.
M wasn't a devout Jewish person, his family was though. We don't celebrate Christmas, we're not Christian. When the winter comes I rearrange furniture, paint walls, switch out decorations, etc... in order to fight my debilitating depression. This has nothing to do with religion, and neither did his paintings. It has to do with two really awful things happening at this time of year starting in November, and sprucing up the house helps me cope. M was like part of our family, but I know my grief doesn't compare to theirs.
When M died, my husband was a pall bearer, we went to their house every day for at least a week to sit with the family. I also cleaned his whole apartment out so the family wouldn't have to do it after he died (a mitzvah). We go to the grave almost every year to put another stone on the headstone. The rabbi is now retired and no longer has a congregation and the synagogue has closed. No one expects us to make a monetary donation in his name, we do not have the means. We are well versed regarding Jewish tradition, they knew it wasn't a donation, it was a loan.
Yes, the framing was done as a gift to us. I don't want a picture or a reproduction, the texture of this specific painting is an important aspect of it's beauty.
Thank you for your thoughts, I'm going to send her an email and ask for it back. I'll let you know what they say. I needed the right words to do this, and I have you guys to thank for those :)
I'd simply call and say something like this.
"Hi Mrs. Mom, I need to come pick up the painting this afternoon so I can display it for an event I am having in a couple of days. What time is good for me to come by?".
You said: "As recently as last year, M's mother joked with me that she may not be able to part with it."
That would have been the best time to say, "I know, I love it too. Could you please send it back to me?"
I suspect her joking comment was putting a feelers out to see if you'd ask for it back. Since you didn't, she probably considers it hers now.
If you've never asked for it back in 7 years (you didn't say) they may even be able to make a legal case that you gave it to them as a gift. Just something to be aware of.
Asking for the painting back is going to be super awkward at this point, but if you want it you'll just have to ask for it. There is a possibility that regardless of the outcome, doing it may to sever any relationship you have with them. Be prepared for that as well.
I found this online.. Consider having a copy made for mom..As an artist I can tell you that painters don't always keep their...
...originals. Unless they create prints for a living they rarely keep their original paintings if someone wants to have them. Even then, they will often sell the original as well because some people put a premium on the original. There is nothing that makes an artist happier than to know someone likes their work. And if someone is willing to give them money for it, all the better
Besides, where would they store all those paintings? Artists make art because they love to do it. They never stop with just one painting.
Offer to buy it and your friend will be delighted (and may still insist on giving it to you anyway).
With that said, there are a number of ways to get a copy made on canvas. The best process is giclee printing on canvas. It is described as follows:
"What is a Giclee Fine Art Print?
A Giclee fine art print refers to a machine-made reproduction using the latest and most sophisticated ink-jet technology. The name comes from the French word GICLEE (pronounced Zhee-Clay) that means “spray". In this printing method, the media (in our case the artists canvas) is carried by a spinning roller while infinitely small pixels of rich, vibrant archival inks are sprayed on it at a very high speed. This renders an amazingly smooth and consistent image true to the original painting, a superb quality fine art reproduction.
The Giclee is quickly becoming the new standard in the art industry, and is widely embraced for its astonishing quality by major museums, galleries, publishers and artists. A Giclee Print is quite simply the closest replication of an original artwork that is currently possible.
The latest inks offer up to 70 years light-fastness and UV-resistance under museum archival conditions. For even better permanence, we coat all our canvas giclee prints with a layer of anti-fading UV protective clear satin glaze.
-------------------------------
Places to get it done:
Something like Artist Print Shop specializes in doing this for the artists themselves, and your friend might even like knowing about them if she wants to sell her works. You can also get a good photo done of the work and them most fancy photo stores can then print it on canvas for you. Canvas on Demand can work from a digital photo uploaded over the internet. Another one is UpDone.com Canvas Print Center.
Artist Printshop
38 South Main Street
Sheridan, WY 82801
Phone ###-###-####
Fax ###-###-####
http://www.artistprintshop.com/PaperorCanvas.html
Canvas On Demand, LLC
10700 World Trade Boulevard
Suite 102
Raleigh, NC 27617
Phone: 1-800-801-6312
Email: ____@____.com
http://www.canvasondemand.com/canvas_howitworks.asp
Updone.com Canvas Print Center
Address
upDone.com
New York Sound, LLC.
8 John Walsh Blvd.
Suite 322
Peekskill, NY 10566
USA
Email Address ____@____.com
Phone ###-###-####
Fax ###-###-####
http://www.canvasprintcenter.com/?gclid=CMG7mpe5kY0CFR8TO...
They've lost their son, and they are hanging on to anything that he created because they will have no chance at participating in his life or seeing his children grow up. They've become attached to this painting and it brings them comfort.
My mother in law lost a son to suicide. I'm Jewish. I know something about these issues.
I'm not sure how a painting by a devout Jewish artist is part of your Christmas decorations and why it needs to be a central part of your decor. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe the house just doesn't look right without that focal point on the wall?
I think your own issues with holidays (perhaps past losses?) are affecting your feelings for an object, meaningful as it is. Your losses are pitted against your friends' losses of one son and now, essentially, a second one who blames them for the brother's suicide. As tough as Christmas is for you, it's hard to compare that with their loss of a son, which they experience every single day. Not a day goes by that my husband doesn't think of his brother and the pain of suicide to those who survive.
I think your friends framed the one picture to make it more special for you and to make it a gift from THEM as well as from their late son. I wonder if their son gave away too many paintings, in their mind, and they have none of their own? Is there a way you can let them have this lasting token of their own son, out of your own spirit of generosity and compassion? You've waited this many years, you laughed it off, you changed the subject. I think you're past the point of being able to go back and insist on getting it back.
Perhaps you can ask them to take a nice photo of the painting and send it to you? Tell them how much you miss it, and how much you miss their son, and how much you think of their pain. Make an outright gift of the painting, but ask if it could be photographed and sent to you. That way you will be able to frame it (and my guess is, they will frame it first anyway), you will have a lasting memory of their son's talent, and you will feel better about your own holiday losses by making a magnanimous gift to someone you care about.
On another note, what did you do when their son died? Were you familiar enough with Jewish traditions to make a meaningful and traditional gesture? Donations are very common and can be made at any time especially around the time of year when the person died. (This is called the "yahrzeit".) You can make a donation to their synagogue in memory of their son (multiples of $18 are very meaningful: $18, $36, $54 etc.) either to a special fund or to the rabbi's discretionary fund (this father's fund, if he is a congregational rabbi vs. a teaching rabbi) which is used to help others in need. The Jewish National Fund plants trees in Israel, "making the desert bloom." Magen David Adom is the Israeli version of the Red Cross. Mazon is a Jewish response to hunger and provides funding to soup kitchens and shelters. All reliable, reputable organizations. All of these can be in memory of M with the organization sending an acknowledgment to the family if you provide their names/address.
I know that it means a lot to you but it probably means more to her. It's her son. Let her keep it. She obviously want to keep it.
hhhmm....seven years is a long time...it's almost like you gifted it to her.
I realize this is tough. I would let her know that while I respect her loss, and yes, it's been 7 years, can we come over to pick up the painting? It is sorely missed in our home and we would like to keep M alive in our home too.
If she says NO? Well, then go over and take picture of it and have it blown up and framed...then you both win.
Good luck!
My opinion is you have waited too long to ask for it back...YEARS too long. You should have gotten them both back right after the art show. The fact that you have not said anything appears that it's ok they have it. Since they are his parents, I would just let them keep it since you already have one of the other paintings. I know it's hard since technically its yours, but I believe it would be the right thing to do. Good luck.
No time like the present. I would say that you know they are aware that M gave you 2 paintings that were loaned to the art show and you would like the remaining painting back. When can you come get it?
While I am sympathetic to their desire to keep something their son created, it has been years now and well long enough to return it. Her comments sound to me like they never planned to return it, and you didn't force the issue. I think waiting isn't going to make it better. I'm surprised you let them keep it this long.
You can say that you understand that they like the painting, but you lost a friend, too, and it was something he clearly gave to you before he died and it was clearly a loan from you to them. Rather like how my MIL gave my DD her childhood Bible. It is DD's and even if I loaned it to someone else, it is an item MIL meant for DD to have. I won't give it to SD or SS because MIL gave it to DD. People get weird about objects and inheritances when people die. But if M meant for them to have it, he would have given it to them, IMO.
(And this is why I rarely loan anything and try never to loan items or money I cannot afford to lose.)
oooo, that's a tough one.
i think it's reasonably clear that they don't INTEND to give it back.
so you have a choice. you either let it go, in which case you TELL them that's what you're doing ('it seems as if you guys are really loving our painting, so tell you what? why don't you just keep it. but do me a favor, take a picture of it and email it to us so we can still have a memento of that piece of artwork that was so special to us too.' or you can tactfully but directly ask for it back, 'dears, i know how special that painting is to you. but it is to us too. we were happy to lend it to you for the show, but we've got a spot on our wall that's just crying out for it, and we think it's time it came home to us again.'
either way, don't wait a few more years. it's already teetering on the edge of 'possession in 9/10ths of the law', KWIM?
i'm so sorry for the loss of your friend. suicide sucks.
khairete
S.
I love Laurie's idea! It says I understand your feelings but I would like the original back. That way you both win.
Ask for it directly.
Now.
Go pick it up.
Tell her you need it, you've been needing it but you can't wait anymore.
I don't know if there's any statute of limitations you need to be aware of but if you need to pursue this through a lawyer, you can't wait on it any longer.
They don't plan on giving it back. I would ask for it if it does mean that much to you.
You've almost waited too long already. I would write the parents a very warm lovely letter about how much you cared about their son, about how much his art meant to you. Tell them how much you miss the painting and its lovely memories of their son that it brings you. Ask them for a date when they will return the art to you. Give them a month of two at the most after that to follow up with a call, "Can you give me a date when I can come get our painting?" If that does not work you may be having to choose letting the painting go or getting help. But, please know your grounds for getting that painting back legally may be very weak unless you can prove he gave it to you. Or unless you have proof that the family understood it to be a loan when you made it to them. Good luck.
I think the time has passed for you to ask for it back without creating hard feelings. I would also take the fact that they returned only one as a hint that they don't plan on returning the other. Passive aggressive, sure, but effective as they still have it. I would try to take the high road, and let them keep the painting their son did. It obviously means as much or more to them as it did to you. I lost my best friend unexpectedly 4 years ago, and the loss was devastating for me and our small group of friends. But I know that my grief could never compare to the grief her parents felt at losing a child. Focus on your good memories of your friend, and let it give them whatever comfort it can.
I am an art lover -- there isn't one bare spot left on any of my walls, and all of my art is original. So I can understand wanting it back. However, a mother has lost her son. In this case, I think you ought to gift her the painting.
There is a ton of wonderful art out there. And original art is cheap these days, since the art field is having a hard time. I think it's time to buy something new.
I really think that you are out of luck on this one...After SEVEN years, I am sure that they assume that you didn't intend to get the painting back. If you really wanted it back, you should have followed up when they returned the other one. I think it is bad form to ask for this back after all this time....
I'd give it one more try personally, and then I'd have a lawyer handle it. They've got plenty of his work. This piece belongs to you and you deserve to have it. No more waiting.
Just nicely ask for it back. It is long over due! You can say 'I know you really like painting x, and it will be hard for you to return it, but we feel the same way. He gave it us, and we really love and miss it. Could you please return it?' There is nothing wrong with being politely honest. If you keep waiting, you may never get it back! Only you can decide if you will regret not getting it back, but I suspect you will. Also, having a discussion about it may bring up something that you don't realize that M's mom is hanging on it it for a specific reason. Then you may want to reexamine your decision. Even if you don't, you shouldn't feel bad!
I would approach it the next time you are visiting their house, but not this week, and not during Christmas.
I would stumble upon the picture and say something like 'oh, that's where that is! I forgot, I was trying to redecorate and I've searched for this painting for days.'
