Grown up Kids?

Boy, I think you have to give him a dose of real life. You have made the rules--the rent, etc. In real life, if he doesn't pay he gets evicted. You have made the commitment; now you have to stick to it. He will only "grow up" when he has to.

In my opinion, no. But you should make it really easy for him to leave from his own decision, because then it will help him take responsibility. Start making it difficult for him to stay at home, and he will choose to leave and do things his way.

I don't have a kid that old yet but I had lots of brothers. I know my parents struggled with that too. From what I experienced was that the longer my parents took responsibility for their actions the longer it took them to do it themselves. It wasn't until they were almost thirty that my parents actually quit doing it for them and when they did quit my brothers hit rock bottom but, I think that is what made them decide they don't want to go there ever again.

Hi,
I don't have grown kids (mine is 6) but even when kids are young I feel you have to establish boundaries and be respectful of them where others are concerned. I can't tell you what you should do... only you can figure that out by listening to what your prayers and heart is telling you. A suggestion would be to re-establish the house boundaries and attach consequences, especially because you have other little ones that are also being effected by his behavior and how you are handling the situation at this time.
Life is about "choices"!It is "your house" and if he doesn't agree with the rules he can choose to move out or choose to crash at another friend's. Where the bills are concerned... the consequence for him is bad credit if he doesn't pay them and the lesson of rebuilding what he has chosen to break down.
You can't convince him of anything... only establish what your needs and the needs of the other people living under your roof and if he doesn't like it then he should go somewhere else until he can choose to be more respectful.
Best of Luck!
L.

Time for tough love. Sounds like he is capable of being responsible since he did it in high school, but he is definately at that age when he's scared of his future - I think for some people this is paralyzing and it's easier to avoid growing up. I think you should put him on a deadline of when he needs to either leave or start school and stick to it. Let him know you believe in him and trust that he WILL land on his feet even if he goes through tough times. Trust yourself that you did a fantastic job raising him and providing him with the tools he needs to be a functioning adult (because you did). He's not using you he's just scared and you enabling him makes him more distrustful that he cannot do it. You both know that he can!

That's my advice, for what it's worth...;)

I hate to say it but "everyone" is right, I have a friend in a similar situtaion and that is what they have fianlly done, they let him know that they love him and he always welcome to come and visit, but that they won't keep enabling his behaviour (he's in his mid 20's).

My kids aren't that old yet, but they do know that if they aren't going to continue thier education after high school then they are going to have to move out of the house and support themselves, and I will stand by that, they get a 6 month period to get everything in order and then they have to leave. If they stay in school they are welcome to continue to live with us and we will help them anyway we can. But if they want to be "adults" then they will have to do it on thier own like an adult.

I also wouldn't my younger kids thinking that that behaviour is Ok, Just my opinion.

My dad had a rule with us that if we were working or in school, we could live at home, and otherwise we needed to find our own place to live. I thought this was reasonable. My siblings and I all left the house in a timely manner to attend college or work. I don't think that you are unreasonable to ask your son to do the same. He is an adult now, and is legally responsible for himself. I bet the reason he is not working and not paying for things is because he has it easy at your house...I don't want you to feel bad, but I do think you are enabling this behavior by letting him live with you and helping him with his bills. He doesn't have to face reality, and instead of working to pay for things, he is goofing around. It is pretty disrespectful of your son to treat your home like a frat house. I would help him find an apartment--don't just kick him out--and help him get his utilities turned on, etc. He will need help with the transition. But make sure he puts the bills in his name, not yours, so he truly is responsible. At 19, he is old enough to handle these things. Make sure he knows you welcome him to visit often; maybe set up weekly (or more often) dinners, and other family activities, so he doesn't feel like he's being excluded from the family just because he no longer lives under the same roof. He will probably enjoy the freedom of living on his own!

F.,

When my son was that age we had the simular experience.
He wasn't out partying and gone for days, but wouldn't
get a job or be financially responsible.

It got to the point where we started theatening him that if he didn't get a job by a certain date he would be out of the house. His response was... I can go live at my friends house.
It was a place that he spent 70% of his waking hours at anyway so I know that what he said was true.

Finally I had a heart to heart conversation with him.
In his case, he simply was not satisfied any more having a job that he could not be passionate about.

He wanted to find something that he could actually look forward to. He wasn't being lazy, just very selective and knowing that when something felt right he would take it.
Looking back what seemed to be an eternity of waiting and wondering only took less than a year.

When he found his ideal job, he was clear in his interview and has been working ever since with that company and getting raises and promotions. He is happy and every time I come into the company all I hear is praise about his work.

I don't know why your son is doing what he does, but I will venture to say, neither do you. Find the time and find out what is going on with him. This gets to be from a space of listening without judgement. Make sure he knows that you love him enough that he can tell you anything. After you have allowed him to tell you where he is at, trust yourself to know what would serve him most. To judge him as LAZY is not assisting you or him. There is a possibility that he is into drugs by what you descripted, be open to that possibility.

As I was going through this type of experience I found myself caring more what people thought than what was truly going on with my son. What you have described sound like a cry for help. Be there for your son. Let go of judgement and gain understanding instead.

I am familiar with dysfunctional kids, as I have had 3 with addictive genes. A good step might be to go to Al-Anon. I know that they focus on people that live with alcoholics, but his behaviour is similar. As in not taking responcibility for paying his bills, having a schedule, keeping a job.
I made the mistake with my kids of protecting them from consequences that their actions should have caused. Perhaps you could call the police and find out if there is a warrant for his arrest, if there is one, have the police come and pick him up. Do not bail him out!! I know that it seems harsh and mean but it could be a wake-up call for him. He doesn't have to know that you were the one that told the police where he was. Part of being an adult is taking care of your legal obligations.
I hope you don't think that I am cruel and mean. But if I had taken this course with my oldest son he might still be alive. It has been 5 years since his accidental drug overdose and I am still haunted by what could have been if I had been proactive in my attitude and behavior.
I didn't realize how much time I was taking away from my 3 other kids at the time. But dealing with dysfunctional child takes a lot out of you. I am sure that you are frustrated.
But making him face up to the consequences just might make all the difference in his life and help him "grow up.".

my younger brother went through some of these same things a few years ago. my parents finally had to pretty much kick him out. he had so many speeding tickets that my dad finally had to drop him from the insurance because his agent threatened to drop the whole family if he didn't take my brother off. my brother got an apartment and roommate and went through several jobs and had lots fo car problems, and did way to much partying and such, but not for very long. once he was really on his own and responsible for himself he started to shape up. it took quite a while and it was hard for both him and my dad, but he has really grown up and improved. he even got married last summer and they are expecting their first baby. even after my brother moved out though, he and my dad were close and my dad did still help him when he needed it as long as my brother was doing everything he could for the situation. i hope you are able to work things out with your son. good luck.

This is a tough situation. Me, only being a 26 year old Mom to a 2 year old, probably seems like anything I have to say is simply opinion, BUT- I've watched this scenario play out for the past 2 years at my own parent's house. I have a now 20 year old sister with the same story. She did pretty well through high school, graduated, talked of going to school for art or something similar, had a decent paying job for her age ($14/hour) and then everything started to go down hill. The Summer after her graduation came and went, as did Fall (and enrollment into said college), winter... and so on. My parents bought her a car under their name and she was supposed to pay half of the payments, her insurance and her phone bill (she was living sans rent as well). Needless to say she no longer has her job (and has been through countless 1 week stints since) my parents pay for the car in full, with the indurance and her phone. My Mom allowed her to use her home as a revolving door bringing home new boyfriends, friends (all of which she swore she'd known for years) yet none of which any of us had ever seen or heard of. She stayed out all night, slept all day and did this for over a year. I mean honestly, in a sense, who can blame her (or your son??) If someone was paying for all of my neccessities, my food, transportation, housing etc and all I was doing was partying and being irresponsible- why would I stop with all the positive reinforcement I was receiving? My sister has also been in legal trouble with underage drinking and now drugs because all she was doing was partying. Even though my parents had bailed her out time and time again, my Mom was still compelled to let her stay (which I now understand being a parent myself). It finally took the rest of the family (Myself, my father, 30 year old sister and 28 year old brother) to finally talk my Mom into cutting her loose. I know as a parent that sounds absolutely horrible and heartless, but it was the best thing that ever happened to her. Yes she had to struggle, no it wasnt easy to watch- but it was the first time in her life she had to learn how to be responsible for her life and lifestyle. She isn't free from partying or drama, but she does have housing wich she pays for, food and a phone. My parents are still helping her with the car and she's still bouncing from one job to another- but the prospect of school is back in the picture. It's been a slow journey. My Mom finally realized that she was supporting the behavior she so badly wanted gone and even though there was some dust kicked up in the begining, it's all settled now. There aren't hard feelings between she or my parents and she's now more involved with the family as a whole. We just wish my parents would have stepped in sooner to stop the behavior before it snow-balled into legal issues, but all is well. I wish you all the best, because we know it's not easy or free of tears.

Wow. I'm sorry to hear your son is putting you through so much grief.

I don't know if kicking him out is the solution, but if definitely seems like it's not the one you want. So I suggest sitting down with him to explain why all the things he's doing are not acceptable. Then have a contract of things you expect of him and that if he cannot achieve any of those things (or at least be heading in the right direction) over the course of say 3 months, 6 months, whatever you deem appropriate, then he will no longer be living with you. Set the list in order of importance (importance to you and his good name):
1) Get and maintain a job.
2) Make payments on car/phone/insurance
3) pay off tickets, etc, etc

Also, set rules you want him to follow - he needs to be home at a certain time, no guests without permission (while he is technically an adult, it is your house afterall and he's not acting like an adult) etc. And have him sign it, and if he fails to follow the contract, then he's out. If he doesn't want to sign it, then kick him out and let him learn his lesson the hard way. He's never, ever going to learn to be responsible for himself if he knows you're there to bail him out. I don't think it's bad that you are helping him, but you need to help him in the right direction, and not just by taking care of his financial needs. I think a contract would show him you want to help, but he needs to help himself and that you're serious without having to kick him out right away.

Good luck.

I know everyone talks about "tough love" but the streets are rough and I think not knowing where our kids are is far more stressful than putting up with their irresponsible behavior. I don't pretend to think I have the answers because I am trying to figure all this out myself (I have 2 boys, 15 & 12) my 15 yr old is a handful. Lazy, has started lying, ditched 1st period of school yesterday, has an attitude....it's tough to know what to do most of the time.
Your son has had a run of some bad luck it sounds like and we have all been there, the world can knock you down and it sounds like he needs a hand getting up. He knows things worth having don't come easy, as proof of his responsible past, but he also needs to know that following the rules and making your own way in the world is just part of being an adult, which he is now.
Maybe you can enter into a written contract with him regarding curfew, having a job working "x" amount of hours each week, paying rent and stuff. Help him get back on
his feet with the understanding that living under your roof has conditions....your love is not conditional, but you expect him to take care of his business and try.
I hope this helps! I will pray for strength for you!

Dear F.,

Speaking as a mother who has raised two boys. One who did well and is on his own and the other who was disabled and has Aspergers Syndrome. Well the latter tried to pull the same stunt your son is pulling. He refused to work and kept to his room did nothing for two months and did not go back to school. He had to finish really he did. Well one day I asked him to dump the garbage something he occasionally did. He took the garbage out and didn't come back! I was worried and waited tell the next morning. Then I called the police! He was found at a neighbors house and since he was 18 they said they couldn't bring him home. Well that was the last straw for me. I packed his bags and kicked him out! He was furious with me. I was worried about him too but he went to a friends house. Now he is in a group home where they are helping him and he goes to counseling every day. The point is he survived. Your son is testing the waters. To see what you will do. Let go! Kick him out. Make an ultimatum! Tell him get a job and start paying rent or I will kick you out. He doesn't then do it. You will find that he will either smarten up or you will kick him out and he will have to survive on his own like my son did. Trust me they will be fine. Take care!

There are many excellent comments. I think one thing you should do is figure out why there is a change in his behavior. Is he scared of real life? Is he feeling lost now that he's an adult and clinging to his childhood? Is he on drugs or depressed? There may very well be some deep issues that are contributing to his lazy behavior that go beyond mere laziness.

F., you sound like a sweet and caring mom, but it is time for some tough love for you. :) you have gotten some good advice from 'everyone', and yet you don't follow it and are asking for more advice. why is that?

who is the 'everyone' that is telling you to kick him out? do you trust the people in your life that are telling you to do this? is the advice you are getting from virtual strangers on the internet going to convince you to do kick your son out? what are your husband's thoughts? you are looking for validation of your behavior and an excuse to not do it.

this is not a single person issue. this is not just about you, or even just about your son. there are NINE people that this is affecting!

there is a saying out there that defines insanity as doing the same things over and over again expecting different results. i think this probably applies to this situation. ultimately, you need to be comfortable with whatever decision you choose to do. hard choice are exactly that...hard.

i will pray for wisdom and strength for you and your family.
D.

ok, it sounds like your nineteen year old is acting like my uncle(who is forty something and still living at home). and he needs a little kick in the rear. you've already told him that you'll be suportive of his decision to either work or attend school. great. now tell him he needs to decide which. rent if he decides to work, frankly $100 a month is too low, kick it up to $250, tell him that includes his share of utilities, electricity isn't free, and for groceries and toiletries, etc. tell him also that should he decide to go to school, he can stay at home, for $100 a month. i would suggest putting the hundred bucks into and account for him to use upon graduation from college. let him know he can go to school and maintain a part time job(welcome to the real world kid!). many students do it. if you son decides he doesn't want to work or go to school, tell him fine. but he'll be expected to do chores around the house, keep his room clean, do his laundry, and follow all rules you set for him his senior year of high school. i hope this helps!

I'm sorry, but my first thought reading your post is "Is he on Drugs?" Check out parentsempowered.org and other web sites to check for symptoms, but my idea about him being on drugs is not only because of his actions, but because of your's. You sound very much like the families I work with who are dealing with a loved one on drugs. There is so much craziness that affects everyone. I think there is plenty you can do as long as you identify the problem correctly. I hope I'm wrong, and you can hate my post, but I couldn’t walk away with out at least mentioning this. I don’t know him so I apologize if I'm out of line.

Also, check out Loveandlogic.com I'm a love and logic mom and facilitator, there are some wonderful Ideas on how to handle your teen. Funny parenting stories, you may really enjoy it since you have a bunch of kids in all different age ranges. There is also conversations on how to talk to your kids in the love and logic program that are wonderful, if you ever want to talk more about it. PM me, I'm always happy to talk.

Kick him out. We know he's capable of being responsible, he just chooses not to. You're enabling him. Why should he do anything since Mommy's gonna cover his back. Family should not have cosigned for the car. He may not be able to pay it back and is going to alienate them. Why should she be responsible for his car? Don't pay for his cell phone...let it go to collections. If you've signed for anything, it could ruin your credit, too, so take that into consideration. You have to put your foot down, because right not he's setting the precedent for the other 6 kids. They'll see his behavior and see that he's getting away with it...and then you'll be stuck with 7 irresponsible kids instead of one...possibly. So nip it in the bud. He's an adult. If he insists on having adult freedoms (staying out all night and inviting friends over) then he's going to need to begin behaving like an adult. Since he insists on behaving like a child, he should be treated as such. Sure, he'll be pissed, and storm out and say you're not being fair...he'll get over it. Depending on how mature he is, it could take a while, but it's for the best. Don't let it go on any longer.

By the way...that was me 7 years ago. My parents have 7 kids and I was horrible. When I was 20, I was still living at home and doing nothing. My parents finally got rid of my room and made me share with my 10-yr-old sister, not conducive to company, and I had to pay rent. They stopped paying my cell phone, I didn't have a house key, so if I wasn't home in time I slept in the garage (that only happened once ;) My parents finally kicked me out when I didn't meet all the terms they set down, too. Best thing they ever did for the whole family. I appreciate them more for the time that they did put up with me, and I also feel better about myself for being able to survive on my own without Mommy's help. When my little brother started doing the same thing, he knew the expectations and knew what would happen if he didn't straighten up. Good luck and don't back down.

First of all, if he thinks he's a REAL adult, he needs to have REAL adult responsibilities. Make him pay rent and include his utilities and food. Make him pay his own insurance and let him know that if he doesn't pay rent to you, he'll have to get his own place. Let him know that real adults take care of their own needs, and not let mommy and daddy do it for them!
Being supportive only goes so far...when you let them do what they want, and not guide them to do what they need, your not helping him.
You can't pay his way forever, you have 3 other kids right behind him...should they suffer for your 19 yr olds lack of responsibility???
I have 5 kids, 4 of them are teeagers.

You have to set the bounds now. Tell him if he wants to stay at your home rent is due on the 1st and that he must have a job and keep it. If he dosen't pay the payment on the car you take it, have your sister take it back and sell it if she can or talk to her about letting you sell it. By all means don't let him drive it around if he won't pay for it. There is always his bike and public transportation. Give him 30 days notice to live up to your house rules. Tell him that with all the kids in the house that no one can stay the night especially if you don't know them you are setting your daughters up in a situation that could go very bad quickly, espcially if you and your husband are gone and he comes home with friends. Stand firm when 30 days is over change the locks and set is stuff out. Tuff love is the hardest of all but if you enable him he will use you over and over again. Make him be responsible. He may be mad for awhile and that is okay. Kids know that you love them and they will come back around I have seen it happen many times. Fix it now before you get the rest of your family in real trouble.

I have a brother-in-law that still lives with my mother-in-law and has the exact same behaviors at 40!! Your choice.

Hello. I am in a similar situation with my son, but he is only 16. He has decided to quit school and get his GED and a job, which I reluctantly agreed to. I got tired of fighting with him every day to go to school and getting calls from the school about his behavior and lack of motivation. He admits that he is lazy, but it's driving my crazy! He hasn't made much of an effort, as far as I can see, to get going on the GED and job search and I almost kicked him out last weekend because my frustration level with him was through the roof. I ended up changing my mind because he's still my son and I don't want to have to worry about him. I'm afraid he would end up in trouble or in danger. He's not legally an adult yet, either, though he seems to think he's all grown up. I've always told my son that he needs to be in school. That's his job and if he doesn't act responsibly and follow through with these things, then he needs to find another place to live. What I'm saying is, I feel your pain. However, I don't know what advice to give you. Since he's legally an adult, you could make him find another place to live. Maybe give him a month notice so he can find a job and a place to live. You say he's not disrespectful, but by inviting people over to eat and spend the night without checking with you seems disrespectful to me. I mean, who's paying for the food his friends are eating and the home they are sleeping in? You have rights and you have the ultimate say about who is in your house and when. Good luck!

F.,

I hate to say it, because no Mother wants to throw her child out, but that may be just what you need to do. My son was doing things very simular to yours, wouldn't follow the rules, doing drugs, not working, wouldn't go to school etc. We finally had to give him an altumatium, if only to protect the other children in the house. Follow the rules or move. He moved. Things were very rocky for him for awhile, he moved alot and couldn't settle down in a job, and it was hard not to invite him back, but finally, after a few years he's settling down. He has a stable job now, and semi-responsible roomates. And actually seems to be thinking about his future. It was hard to let him go, but it seems it has done what was needed. Kids are different, and I'm sure you'll do whats best for you and your family. This is just my experience. Good luck in your struggles.

Yes F., kick him out!
The problem with that is your son has trashed his credit. It may be hard for him to find a new place to live so prepare yourself for that.
He will need to save $$ for a security deposit etc..so if he's going to stay home he needs some ground rules. Like no guests, and he must tell you if he's not going to be home for a few days. Charge him rent and accept no excuses. Hold prized personal possessions until you are paid. Stop paying his bills and hold him accountable for all of his actions. Make him compensate you . That could be with household chores.
Follow thru with any discipline action you threaten him with. Let him know that as an adult he is held to different standards in your household than the minors. Remind him that he is essentially a guest in your home now.Remember that your younger children are watching and how you handle this now will determine how they behave at his age.Prepare to have your locks changed. Take his bedroom door off the hinges if need be.
The only way this situation will change is if YOU change. Sounds like maybe some family counceling could be useful if you and your hubby are not working together to raise your family.

I recommend the book,"Parenting with Love and Logic."
Good Luck!

Oh F., I feel for you. My daughter is 19 and graduated last June too. She has been struggling getting on her own feet. And I have struggled with maintaining my relationship with her and having an young adult in my home instead of a child. It does sounds as if some boundaries are in order around bringing people to your home and kitchen, and communication expectations when people live together. It also sounds as if you son is struggling a lot. I would investigate this slew of problems. This dramatic change waves a red flag for me. There may be steps before kicking him out before either of you are ready. Though I did have to say to my girl don't make me kick you out. I read your question to my daughter and she immendiately wondered about the partying all night as an indictor of a problem and around the other issues suggests talking to him as roommates speak to each about living together. If he wants to live without boundaries he can keep a job and move out.
M. with two adult daughters, 19 and 21

If it were me, I would come up with some house rules that he must follow for the good of your family. I don't think it's safe or wise for him to be bringing people over - when you have other younger kids to worry about. I don't think he should stay out all night. Do you want your younger kids to see his behavior and think that it's alright? Maybe you could help him find a new job that he enjoys? Kicking him out is a last resort (he is pretty young), but if he doesn't follow house rules, perhaps you may have to. You could be more lenient if he were an only child, but you have a large family.

Hi F., I don't have teenagers yet, but have 2 older brothers who did this kink of thing when we all lived at home. My mom didn't know what to do either. On the one hand you're a MOM and don't want to throw your baby out, and on the other hand you don't want a lazy bum in your house. I do listen to Dr. Laura, and hear this situation a lot on her program. The problem is he is not a man and has not been made to turn into one. Also, it may be that since you do most of the discipline, he is not being respectful of your husband. He needs a man to whip him into shape. So, kicking him out is not exactly the way to go about it. I think you need to have a set date that he has to have a job, have down payment on an apartment, and be packed and ready to go. for instance, you and your husband sit with him and tell him he has 3 months to have a secure job and be moved into an apartment. Mark it on a calender where he can see it as a reminder. If that 3 months comes and he hasn't done what you asked, then he's out. He will get it. Also, it's your house and he's living in for the time being. If you don't like the way he is behaving and don't like him bringing friends in and feeding them...set some rules. He is to follow them while he is living under your roof. Then, if he doesn't follow them, that set date of getting him moved out will have to come sooner. He may have to live with friends until he gets his own place if he doesn't get it together on time, but stand firm and don't let him back into your house if that situation happens. He has to know you and your husband mean business. Your job as a parent is to raise that boy into a man. This is the beginning. Hope this helps, and GOOD LUCK!!

I would be afraid to just suddenly kick him out, as the way he has been acting, he would probably just go stay with these friends he's been with lately and make things worse. I think giving him a contract is a great idea, like many others have said.
Also, as someone else mentioned drug use.. I would definitely look into that. From what you've said his behavior seems to have changed drastically, and that is one of the major signs of drug use. Just another reason why you might not want to kick him out cold, he'll just get himself further into it, if that was the case.
Best of luck, I sincerely hope things turn around for the better!

I would give him choices and deadlines - for example - by April 1, 2008 you need to be enrolled in school, have a full- time job, or find a new place to live - and stick to it - that way if he decides not to be responsible, you do not enable him to destroy his own life nor are you kicking him out, he is choosing to kick himself out. You have to stick to your decisions too because if you really love him you will give him the tools to live a happy, responsible and something he can be proud of life. If his happiness is really what is important to you, you will allow him to grow up and not act like a child anymore.

You have given many clues that says that maybe your son is on drugs if that is the case get him help before it spirals too far out of control. But then he could just be doing all the things he wanted but couldn't. You can buy at home drug tests at the drugstore.

First, learn this lesson from your first child--you most likely did not set an expectation with your kids of what would be expected once they graduated and became adults. Do so with your other children so they do not fall into the same trap. If the expectation is that they go to school to stay at home, or work and pay rent, or whatever you expect--you need to tell them that before the time comes.

Second, sit with him when there is NOT an immediate tension going on. Set an appointment if you have too. Before hand you and your husband need to sit down and hash out all these things--from the car too the friends eating your food. Set limits, boundaries and rules. He may be and adult-but it is your house and your money that is being abused. Just because he is 19 does not mean he has a right to do as he pleases under your roof and with your things.

My opinion on the car. He is not paying for it so therefore he should not be allowed to drive it. Take away the keys, park it in the garage, put a club on the steering wheel, and tell him when he proves he can keep a job long enough to pay the car payment and the insurance, he can have the keys back. Tell him if he doesn't do so with in X period of time (that you set) you are going to sell it because you cannot afford to continue paying for it on his behalf. There are other ways to get around--the bus for instance.

Unfortunately, as hard for you as it may be I think it is best that you kick him out. Give him a dead line...he has 2mths to straighten up and abide by the rules you have set or by such and such date, he needs to pack up his things and leave. You have already given him enough time as it is and you are covering for him...because he knows you will; so why show you any respect? I question if maybe he hasn't gotten himself involved with the wrong crowd and turned to drugs. Look at you kicking him out and an intervention so to speak. You need to let him know you are more than just frustrated. You are tired and angry and just plain mad and hurt. You can only hope that kicking him out after giving him a specific time line will help him. If it doesn't, at least you can say you did your best and tried everything you could. This is the last resort but there is nothing else left to try. Best of luck to you and I hope you have the courage to go thru with it and stand by your decision.

I am just about to have my first baby, so very far away from your situation. But I'm the oldest of three kids and my sister behaved much the way your son is now. Her stuff started much younger (16). I spent years telling my dad what you've been told. Finally she was in a situation where she needed a place to go(had moved out and in with a boyfriend who was abusive). I told my dad that he couldn't let her go back to the house of my parents because the cycle would continue. The solution was she moved here with me. I was very clear on the ground rules. We fought and she hated me for a while, but she has grown up and now is very thankful for everything I did. We've talked and she's said she resented Dad for bailing her out and taking care of stuff.
Kicking him out may not be the best thing for your son, but he certainly doesn't need priviledges he hasn't earned. If he doesn't make the car payment, then he doesn't get a car. Same with a phone. That's what happens as adults. I'd also talk with your husband and set a time limit for how long you'll give him to make a decision. (ie. In 3 months if you are not in school then you must pay us $100 a month for rent or find somewhere else to go.) Remember, you have other children and they need to be shown a good example, as well as kept safe(if he's bringing people over I'd worry about that).
That's just the opinion and experience of a soon-to-be mom...but I tend to draw a hard line already(childcare is my profession).

I don't think kicking him out is the answer. That will just lead to resentment. However, He isn't a kid anymore. You need to give him a choice school or work. It is time for him to grow up. Don't bail him out anymore. Make him buy his own personal things like deoderant,shampoo..etc. Have to have a job to afford the little things and the fun things. If he has no money he can't do much. Drive that point home to him.

If his father is available get him involved. I gave one of my kids a one way ticket to his father and it helped all of us in different ways. He is an adult and needs to be treated as one as well as act as one, you have done all you can do without endangering the rest of the family, send him to his father or set him on his own.

My sister had the same problem with her oldest son (who is now turning 21 this summer). After high school, he became a lazy bum. He used all his graduation gift money to buy food while pretending to look for a job. His step father finally gave him a time frame to clean up his life (1 month), and if by the end he wasn't working and cleaning up outstanding bills, he was kicked out. He didn't take the situation seriously and at the end of the month was kicked out.

Living on his own was a big wake up call for him. Roommates were difficult to live with, bills were hard to pay, jobs were not forgiving of laziness and tardiness. Over the last 2 years he's had some ups and downs. Lately he's been considering attending college (music to our ears).

It was very difficult for my sister to kick her son out, but it forced him to grow up.

give him 30 days. to get out or get a job. and when thats up put knew locks on the door. he is showing the other kids what thay can do.I had 6 step kids and my 2. Its a hard job to be a parent but maybe if you talk to your husband and ask for his help maybe he can take and talk to him as a man. you do no if thay are partying in your home. H & W and the cops can take all of the kids away and you will be in court. as far as his friends go . stop it at the door, you have thar right. you are going to have to be a manager at home. do you let your job run this way? and why would you ever take on a husband and step kids if you cant let him do part of the work of being a family?

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. (I have 4 sons, it was my oldest.) The younger ones DID learn by his bad example. He is now 30 & still doesn't hold a job so well, although he is a great worker. (He was 14 when he started.) We joined a real live "Tough Love" group. (However the kids network while there - that was the downside.) But the support group was great, focus on the others BIG TIME right now. He has to "choose" to get better & he may have to "bottom out" before he does. He will NEVER improve IF you pick up the pieces all the time. STOP PAYING HIS WAY. (Meantime, lock up your valuables as many start to steal from their families, we were lucky our son never did.) His true good-self will shine through at times, so enjoy those moments. DO NOT take (time & effort)from the others for him. Take his stuff (what is REALLY his) to the neighbors who sheltered him & give him to them. Tell him & them, that that is obviously (just say it) where he wants to be, & that they obviously want him (LOL) & that you are doing this because you love him. (By the way, the police are worthless with this, yes, even when they are 14 yrs old.) Remind him, that WHEN arrested, you will NOT bail him out - & DON"T. As the other lady said FOLLOW THROUGH WITH EVERY THREAT or it means nothing.

My little brother was kind of like that and at the time I thought my mom should kick him out but now I see that would have done more harm than good. Sounds like your (adult) kid needs to be treated like an adult. It might be too late for the teaching part of things, but he needs to know that an adult takes pride in taking care of himself and preparing to take care of a family. He needs a direction to go. Sit him down, apologize for treating him like a kid, tell him what is expected of an adult who lives in your household. Give him a timeline in which he can get his life back together and then cut off all funds with the exception of living with you. If he can't meet the timeline, he is on his own. Don't say it unless you are prepared to really do it.

F.,
I hate to say this but it sounds like your son may have gotten into drugs. It sure sounds like drug use behavior to me. You need to get tough as hard as it is, and tell him you need him to get help or get out. Has he been stealing from you that you know of? You have other kids to worry about here, and you don't want them to see him getting away with treating you like this and your home by bringing in whoever he wants to. You might consider some counselling for yourself to deal with this situation. Just think of the other children in the house.

Good luck
Blessings
L.

Hi F.,

Wow. In my opinion, everything you describe about your son are just symptoms of the real issue. I can't tell you if kicking him out would solve the problem, but he does need to have some consequences. He will not learn responsibility if he is allowed to do what he wants and someone else takes care of his bills, pays for his food and lets him do whatever he wants.

I can't imagine having to make the decision that is front of you. It does seem like he is calling your bluff and counting on the fact that you won't do anything about it even though you told him he has to pay rent. If he was in an apartment and didn't pay his rent, they would kick him out. What is the worst thing that could happen if you did? He is already partying. He is already spending a lot of time not telling you what he is doing. You could tell him that while he is "kicked out" you would like to have a lunch date once or twice a week to talk about whatever he wants. This would tell him that you still love him and want to be a part of his life but you can't accept his irresponsible and immature behavior. And leave the door open for him to come back as soon as he has a job but lay out the rules that he has to follow upon his return.

Being nice seems to be the right thing to do, but it isn't gaining his respect. He not acting like he respects you or your home. Is that what you want?

Also, I would at least ask your husband if he has any advice. Sometimes men see things from a different point of view that can really help.

And the car. Is there any way that you can remove the co-signer? If your sister signed it, why isn't she paying for it. If she took the responsibility, let her pay it or let it be repossessed.

I would take him off of your insurance too. He is not driving responsibly and that goes on your record and drives up your insurance, right?

You do not have to allow him to bring people into your house.

I believe he needs consequences that hurt and you are the one who needs to give them. :)

He doesn't pay the car payment, the car gets repossessed.
He doesn't drive responsibility, you don't pay the car insurance.
He doesn't get a job, he finds his own place to live.
Etc.

I just went back and read your post again and realized that there was a HUGE change when he graduated. This seems like maybe something changed drastically in his life. Maybe he was introduced to drugs? Abused? What type of incident could cause a responsible teen to do a complete turnaround?

I hope this is helpful. :)

K.

My brother was like your son in many ways. He didn't become self-supporting until every last relative that he'd hit up, finally stopped supporting him. That didn't happen until he was in his 40s!!!

He is now productive, self-supporting and really pleasant to be around. His self-esteem is 1,000 times better. (I've heard it said that self-esteem comes from overcoming challenges.)

No one was doing him any favors by supporting him.

By the way, he was, for a very long time, into drugs. Perhaps your son has also taken that path. I hope not.

Good luck!

The first thought that goes through my mind is: what happened? What is going on in this kids life that has changed the entire direction of his life. Maybe some focus on trying to find out the problem, rather than addressing the symptoms would be a good place to start.

I can understand not wanting to kick the kid out of the house. I would definitely stop paying his bills, though. And I would put an end to letting his friends take advantage of your home.

You could establish boundaries by saying things like: "You are welcome to live in my house if you make a contribution" -- (ie. lots of house cleaning if he isn't paying rent or buying food.) "You are too old to be having sleepover parties." etc.

The trick is to have rational conversations, rather than emotional conversations. Approach the situation as if it were your job. Manage your home like you manage your office??? Help him set some goals -- start small. You also have to let him suffer the consequences of his actions. Eventually, that might mean kicking him out. But not until after you've tried to direct him and support him in his efforts to succeed.

Hang in there... You need to set some boundries and make him abide by them.. I have a son the same age. Let him help you make some of the boundries so he knows where he stands. My son did the same thing. I did however make him hold a full time job, pay for his own tickets.. If he is going to party then he needs to stay over at there house.. NO DRIVING... Besides you have younger children that are watching this and thinking it's ok... So they will start going down the same path... Take it one day at a time. If your boundries need adjusting then work it out together... That way he will feel like he is getting a fair deal and so will you.... Good Luck...

Your young man has all the classic signs of the drug culture. Hopefully that is not the problem but it is worth looking into. As a mother of a large family I know the heartache of having a "loose cannon" in the bunch. You are obviously a caring and concerned mother and looking for ways to help your son. I will offer a few suggestions that I have learned.
1-Your other children will be negatively affected by your son's behavior. You need to act quickly before any of the others join him.
2-At your son's age he is considered by the law to be an adult. I always told my kids that I considered them to be "practicing adults" until they turned 21 and your son is the perfect example of why. At 21 they really need to be out on their own for so many reasons but especailly if they are going to hit bottom before they will respond to any help. It is a terrible thing for the other children to watch. From 18-21 they may have all the privileges of an adult if they earn them, if not, then I still consider them as children and not capable of good decisions.
3-Before the entire family needs counseling to get over this "bad" example you will need to get your son good professional help. There are many ways to do this from behavior camps to therapists. But this will prove to be too big of a problem for mom to handle if left any longer.
4-Sorry that husband is not all that interested in helping out. When the child is not their child they are afraid of causing bigger problems by stepping in or it may just be easier to go to work and ignore it all. I would seriously think about the fact that the son may be acting out because your time is so divided by all your other children, work and a new husband. Remember, you may have fallen in love with your new husband, that does not always hold true for the kids.
5-Two hints from friends that had success doing the following; #1 After trying everything to help their son the dad took the son, left his business in the hands of a relative and went away fishing, just the two of them. It was a huge expense but with the one of one attention the son realized how important he was to the family. #2 Mother took the son and went to South America where they did service for others in a little village until the son realized what he was throwing away. Serving others until it hurts sometimes is the only way to get back to reality.
Lastly, Look to heaven to find a solution. Raising kids can be just a best guess approach unless we turn to the one who knows us better than ourselves. Ask him to pray with you and let him hear you pour out your heart on his behalf. He needs to know that the family means more to him than his so called friends. Good luck and God Bless. I will keep you in my prayers. C.

Kick him out.
But give him at least a month to get himself together.
Put it in writing along with the leaving date. Make him sign it. Remind him of the date and offer to help him find an apartment, a job etc.
And (most importantly) FOLLOW THROUGH.
Legally, he is an adult now. The best chance of him doing something to improve his life (get a job, go to school)is to have him live on his own.

It used to be common practice to let the kids leave at 18.

A few examples: My parents moved when my oldest (rather difficult) brother was in college and there was one less bedroom in the new house. I had a job at Safeway my senior year in High School and thought it would be just dandy to take a year off before going to college and work, and probably spend all my money on Madonna lace gloves and New Wave tapes (it was the '80s). My mom pointed out that all my friends would be a year ahead when I did go to school and the advantages of going to college - including having it all paid for by my parents if I went that year. I was then very firmly informed that this was a limited time offer. Go to college in the fall, have my tuition and room and board and some extra cash paid for the next four years. And if I chose not to go to college immediately, that was it. Not a penny more my mom said, and I believed it. I went to college, graduated. Thought I would take the summer off to leisurely pursue a job. Was again informed that I would not be getting a penny more after college. Guess what? I got a crappy job after college and I hated it. Then I got a better one. And I never moved back home.
My parents have always been helpful when I was starting out, taking me clothes and food shopping on occasion, helped me with a down payment on my condo, they take my kids for the weekends sometimes. But moving back home never even occurred to me to be an option and for that I thank them. Being forced to grow up was what needed to be done for me because I was scared and wanted to give up.

Also, make rules on friends coming by and eating food. It is your house and you still control who can come and go. Maybe you could start filling the pantry with non-teen-tempting food (I know this is hard with all the other kids) maybe you and the rest of the family should start eating out more without the eldest and let him fend for himself.
I know it sounds hard, but the best thing you can do is firmly kick this no-longer-baby bird out of the nest. Keep in mind you have 6 other kids watching how you handle this. Let the 1st one mooch off of you and the others will probably think that is the right thing to do. And it's not.

I know this is really hard - life might really suck for the whole family for the next 6 weeks or more but you have to help your eldest grow up by pushing him away rather than holding him back. Good luck!

Maybe "Everyone" is right. Stop making excuses for your boy. If he wants all the freedom in the world, and he's disrespectful and irresponsible, give him the boot. How else will he become a man who can solve his own problems?

F.,
Give him a time line of what you expect of him and stick to it. Tell him he must live by your rules or move out by a certain date. You will no longer be responible for his bills and he must shape up and ship out in 6 months. You need your husband to back you on this one. If you don't take a stand, it is setting yourself up for problems with the other kids. It is tough love but much needed.
C. B

you have to use "Tough Love".....we had to do this with our 19 year old daughter, and it killed me. we had to throw her out, forced her to sell her truck to pay her outrageous phone bill. You have to stick it out, and stick to your guns.... throw him out and don't give him a dime!! when he calls begging for something, money, food, to come back, you have to say no....it is so hard to stick it out, but it does eventually work. Our daughter is now 26, still lazy but she is working and supporting herself. she understands why we did what we did, and has actually thanked us many times for it. good luck to you all!!

I think that moving him out would be a good decision. If living with you isn't helping him prepare for the future, he needs to face the consequences of not preparing. The sooner he sees that his choices lead to a dead end, the better chance of him recovering himself in time.

I think a better decision, though, would be telling him that he needs to get a job immediately and be in school at the beginning of the next semester or he will have to move out. Also, he needs to maintain adequate grades. You have to think out your expectations very specifically, though. You expect responsible behavior. Personally, for example, I would expect that he would be debt-free, holding a part-time job, getting A's and B's in school, going to church, no partying, stuff like that. And because he's choosing to still be a kid by living in your house, you have the right to accountability regarding his self-discipline in the areas important to you. If he doesn't stick to the rules, you move him out - no discussion - and he needs to know that this is what will happen. There will be no talking and negotiating. There will only be moving out.

But if you decide that at this point, you should just move him out immediately, I don't think that's a bad decision, either. If he won't take guidance at all, it's probably your only option if you want to help him.

Dear F.,
I just read your request...
I "kicked" my son out the day before Thanksgiving! He was working full time, came home whenever he was asked, (usually didn't go out much)never partied, a good boy. He wouldn't, however help out in the house, keep his room clean or be nice to his little brothers and sisters.
One day he mouthed off to me and that was it. I sent him packing. Sometimes I regret my decision, but I know that it would have come to a head sooner or later. I don't like his choices, though he is living with my older daugher and her husband.
No matter which way you go, you will probably regret your decision. I know that my son had crossed the line. Your son has abused you far beyond what I could allow. We still love our children, but does it help them to allow behaviors that are self destructive? Or destructive to others? Limits are a good thing. Is it painful to set limits? Yes!!! But in the long run I know my son has to choose for himself- how he will live and the kind of person he will become.
Living with a Mom who enables his poor behavior doesn't build character.
It's a hard choice. While I don't like the choice I made, I realize it was going to happen at some point anyway.

Remember to keep YOUR integrity. And be honest with yourself and him. I tell all my children that everything they have is open to me. In the situation that you are in, I would look through his room for what he might be keeping in there, i.e. drugs, alcohol etc. A reality check would be good for him. It is after all your home.
Then move from there. And always, keep it a matter of prayer. Heavenly Father is aware of us and our children. He is amazing and will help you. Not always are our children willing to listen to His guidance.
God Bless,
I understand!
H. B.

I agree tought love. if need be Change the locks on the doors. I moved out during a fight(because i wanted to i didn't have to) and my parents took my key away and its been nealy 5 yrs later and i still dont have a key! (I have also moved away)But I had 2 jobs and paid my own way! Kinda make sure he has a place to stay I mean dont ask around for him a place to stay just liesten to see if he has a place after he moves out. Pay his cell bill one more month so you can check on him and what not but after that let go! There is no need to let your life go down the crapper!

Hi F., I know you won't want to hear this, but it sounds like your son has a drug problem. Someone who is totally irresponsible, doesn't care if he owes money or loses the things he has previously worked so hard for sounds like something else is going on. You know you are enabling him. Unless you want to give him a free ride all his life, you better get him out or get him help now.

It is called tough love! I've been were you are with two daughters. They are 8 years apart in age.Now they are 30 and 39. I didn't want to be a bad mom and put them out.But enough is enough. When I finally but my foot down and said work or out,they left. When I no longer gave them money, they found jobs.It was really hard for me at first when they would come home and say they had not eaten and had no money,to stick to my guns. A lot of praying and support from my Pastor helped me to stay strong.We try to help to much at times and it actualy hurts our children in the long run.It's time to tell your son,work or out. It is the only way he will learn to grow up and be a man.
Give him advice when he asks for it and let him know you love him. Talk to him about his friends. Is there a chance he is on drugs? When my 30 year old changed like that we found out she was using meth. She is clean for now, thank God, but still struggles with it. We will keep you in our prayers.

The key here is GROWN. Make him accept the consequences of his actions. The best thing is to give him notice what you expect from him if he wants to live in your house, "rental aggreement". I would up the rent to $200.00. If he doesnt want to follow the "rental agreement" give him notice of eviction. Tough love. I dont know about you but I grew up real fast when I was on my own.

I am sorry for your troubles and am far from your situation. But I can't help but think that maybe he is suffering from depression? Often times when kids excel in high school, they can become worried about 'growing up' and being on their own. Afraid of failure, so they become self destructive, which can lead to drug use. Tough love is a partial answer, but you may also want to look into getting him evaluated for depression as well as drug use before you just kick him to the curb, as that could just make things worse and you could lose him even more!! Look into a local Mental Health clinic, most offer outpatient care. If he is actually depressed, he may improve with counselling and/or medication and the situation will improve. If he is reluctant to get this type of help, bargain with him, i.e. as long as he goes to his counseling sessions, you will continue to let him live at home, etc. That is where the tough love comes in! I hope this helps, and I wish you and him the best of luck!!

F.,
It sounds like your son may be going through a depression of some sort. I have a nephew the same age and some of the same trials. My brother works out of town and his wife has 4 other younger children to worry about also. They saked if he wanted to see a Dr. and he turned them down saying there was nothing wrong with him. They finally told him he had a month to get a job or go to school or they would get him an appartment pay for the first month and kick him out, and that he was no longer welcome to live at home and get a free ride. They also took his motorcycle away, because they also cosigned on it and sold it. To teach him a lesson and pay the remaining bills he had. That way they did not have to pay out of their own pockets for his bills.

I am happy to say he is now enrolled at the University and has long term goals of what he wants and a part time job to help pay for his schooling (he got a student loan) He still lives at home, (home is close to the University) but he no longer is a leach on the family. Good Luck.

Hi, F.. I rememeber going to college and then coming back home...so did my husband. I stayed in college, but he didn't. Both of our sets of parents demanded rent and if we were unable to pay, we were not welcome. Tough love, but it worked - my husband found his own place and I went back to the dorms. The way this worked from my parents was that if I didn't pay, they would have the locks changed...but the most important part was that I believed them.

This has to be hard. He is an adult now, but maybe still needs a little guidance from you. My advice is tough love. Even if he gets kicked out and living somewhere else, at least you're not enabling the behavior.

Michele

You say that your son is not disrespectful to you or your husband, but his actions are otherwise: bringing friends over without asking, taking money for car & car insurance, not telling you where his is, etc.

His life was so structured when he had school and a job and suddenly he has no structure, and he is adrift. Even if he were in college out of town, he might have similar problems. Also it seems he was able to spend all his earnings, without thought to a budget or saving for a future event such as college. He has more growing up to do and I think you can help him do it short of kicking him out.

Stop paying for his car or car insurance - sell it. (If your sister is a co-signor, hopefully she has a title interest.)Tell him he doesn't need a car if he isn't going to school or a job. A cell phone also isn't a necessity and don't send a dime in his behalf. Basic cell phones can be had that block text messaging, long distance, etc.

You know that $100 isn't the real value of room/board, etc., but HE might think that that is all he owes for it and that you have no say in his doings if he's just a renter. Has he been doing his own laundry, or cooking some of his own meals? He AND your 15 year old should be doing this. Do they help with other household chores or maintenance? This is more important than any cash back to you. If he were rooming with friends he would be doing these things, in addition to paying rent.

Our daughters needed a car for their after-school activities, and had good jobs in the summer, but they never got title to the cars they drove, as long as they were on my insurance policy. Most of their earned money went for college savings. They were told that if their grades dropped, or they got a ticket or were in an accident that was their fault, no more car, no matter how old they were.

We have always had a buddy system policy for teens/young adults living with us. Were they rooming with friend, they would tell their friends where they were going, when they would be home, etc. and it's the same with us. If those plans change, they should call us - no matter what time of night. This was for their SAFETY and we have had many teen/young adult house guest - of both sexes - who did the same. We did have some late-night calls, but it was worth it.

Also don't guess whether there is a warrant for his arrest, find out, and confront him.

It may be that your son will dislike the ground rules for living at home and he will move out on his own. If so let him, but in any case he will know that you care about him, but won't be walked on. You have other children in the family who are watching how you handle this; its time to have a dialog with them as well.

Best wishes - my youngest is 29 now.

I read your issue with your son and thought...that sounded like me just last year. We have a 19 year old daughter who was doing the exact same thing. I understand how hard it is to think of your child with no place to go but honestly they figure it out. We gave our daughter an ultimatim to either get her stuff moved out or it would be placed out with the trash on Tuesday. We also have a 10, 8 and 2 year old in the house and felt like we weren't giving them a positive example of how someone behaves when they become an "adult". We also knew in our hearts we weren't helping our daughter. She has struggled since last Aug 2007 but the good news is that she still keeps in touch and stops by for a meal now and then. We also tell her that when she is ready to do something productive with her life we are here for her. Hope this helps a little. Good luck and I'll keep you in my prayers.

Hello F.,
He's got the best of both worlds right now. He gets all the rights and privileges of adulthood but not all of the responsibilities, as long as you're covering his bills. I acknowledge your fear of "kicking him out" as perhaps you're afraid he'll end up on the street. OUr oldest daughter, now 26 acted in a similar manner. She is now on her feet and doing well. Maybe you would like to look for an apartment nearby that he could afford (with a roommate) and take him to see it. Give him a deadline that by a certain date you are willing to help him move into his new place. Tell him you recognize that he is an adult now and wish him good luck. He may end up coming back a few times, but it will get old after a while to come back to your house with rules and expectations. Keep encouraging him and tell him you have confidence in his ability to handle this in a mature manner. Then cross your fingers and pray.

Well, I don't have grown-up kids, but I'm only 22, so I remember being 19 vividly and have a sister who's that age. I think, for me at least, it's an age where you really just don't know what on earth to do with yourself. It used to mean being a "real adult," but in my opinion, a lot of people don't decide to become "real adults" until they're 30 anymore, which is ridiculous. You know your son as well as anyone. Do you think kicking him out would make the situation better or worse? Maybe you could do something in between like stop paying his bills (except the car because of your sister) and kicking him off your insurance until he gets it together. And whatever you do pay on the car, keep track of it and tell him he has to pay it back to you. I discoverd the hard way when I decided to get married that being a real adult comes with real financial consequences. He may struggle, but that's how people learn not to repeat mistakes.

F.,

I hate to speculate about this, but is there a possiblity that your son is involved with drugs? His behavior is very similar to behavior that I have witnessed with my brother as well as my best friends son that is exactly the same age and started off with the same type of behavior. My brother has had a problem with Meth on and off for over 15 years and it is horrible, I would highly suggest that if you are going to allow him to be in your home that you require him to be drug tested and start showing him some tough love. That is the only thing that worked with my brother! You have to protect your younger kids from first of all the behavior that he is teaching them and second of all if he is bringing people over to your house that you dont know I would be very concerned having younger kids in the house. I really hope it is not drugs, but it is obvious that there is some problem going on either with depression or maybe even the friends that your son is hanging out with. I know tough love is hard to do, but learn from my mistake with my brother - I enabeled him for years and not until I did the tough love and told him I was done letting him use me did he finally shape up! Best of luck to you, I know what you are going through!

E. G