Help with 4 Year Old and 6 Year Old

I can't help you on the 6 year old girl, but I think part of the problem is that you are too nice. Do not say please. It is not a request you are making of a co-worker here. Say "It's time to brush your teeth" or whatever. Then take him my the arm gently and lead him upstairs. Then stay there and either assist or watch him. Do you expect him to do all these things by himself? He is only 4 and would rather be doing what he wants to do.

Natural consequences. And there's nothing mean about it, no punishment either.
Toys don't get picked up?
YOU pick them up, and put them away (in a box in the garage or basement or whatever, and KEEP them there.)
You can't get ready for bed at x time? Make it half an hour earlier the next night, so they have "time" to get ready. Remind them how they needed more time the night before, then give them a chance to earn it back, by proving to you how they can do it.
Make your expectations clear, and then always, always follow through.
Do your kids behave this way for their teacher/s and/or other caregivers? That's a good place to start. If they are only like this with you then it means that for whatever reason they don't respect you as an authority figure. You need to let them know YOU are in charge. And you don't need to explain ANYTHING other than what is acceptable behavior in the family home. They will grow to understand it over time.

Have you considered boarding school? I kid.

You'd think there'd be a college or high school course, or at least a brochure that dealt with what you could expect in this department - wouldn't you? The best advice I can give before I stay up typing too late is to remember to pick your battles, pick a discipline appropriate for the age of the child, then be robot mom. Don't get involved in your child's drama. Have you tried working on some of the nighttime routine a little earlier? Children of that age get tired without you realizing it - and they certainly don't realize it - and they can't listen all that well. Do you notice it at any time of the day or do you find it centered around "wrap up" time? I often find my oldest can have a problem if we wait too long and throw too many tasks at him in quick succession - bath, PJs, brushing teeth, cleaning up, etc. Maybe focus on fewer tasks or just task X and then use positive reinforcement when you get cooperation to express to them how much you appreciated them helping mommy with X. Good luck.

My 2 cents: I think your kids are a little too young to give commands to. I remember still helping them put their toys away, still accompanying to brush teeth and put jammies on, etc.

They need lots and lots of together time and role modeling.

And I would drop the "please". I would simply sing the clean up song while we did it, or say, "Let's go..time to get ready for bed." And off we all went.

Check out loveandlogic.com and see if they have a facilitator in your area. Some classes are cheap or free :)

Try switching it to choices (the result of the choices is that YOU get what needs to be done - they just chose HOW). Example - do you want to put on the red jammies or the blue ones? Do you want to brush your teeth before jammies or after? Toys that don't get picked up by THEM go away for a week - tell them if YOU pick them up, they'll go away. If THEY pick them up, the get to be played with.

The 4 year old doesn't quite get it, but he will.

I have two boys ages 3 and 5 and was having the same issues. My biggest problems were whining and not listening (having to repeat myself). Of course it's a little different from the 3 to 5 year old, I was having behavior problems with both. I tried time outs, taking away privileges but nothing really worked that great. So last week I made reward charts online, printed it out and took them to get laminated. So the way I've been doing it is for good behavior they get to color in their own star on the chart and if they get so many stars then they get to pick from the prize bag. In the prize bag I bought a few 1$ toys from target and also printed out paper coupons for things like one free ice cream cone, 1 reward buck worth 1$, 1 treat at Starbucks (they love getting chocolate milk there) etc. if you search online they have a ton of free charts and coupons to print out.
So, this has worked wonders for my kids, especially my oldest son who really gets it. When they are very good listeners they get a star, nice and helpful then they get a star etc. I remind them throughout the day when bad behavior crops up (i.e. whining, complaining etc) that a star will be removed if the behavior doesn't stop. This has really helped a great deal! Don't get me wrong they will still misbehavior at times especially my youngest but I defiently see a huge difference.
I may give one star or two per day but I have also had days where no stars were given. Doesn't hurt to try ;)

Part of this is the power and control game and the kids want all the power and control. So divise a way to make them think they are in control. They already know they have to pick up, brush teeth, put on jammies ect as part of their bedtime routine. So as you are cleaning up the kitchen after dinner ask them what they want to do first. Do you want to pick-up or put your jammies on first? And continue down the list things that need to be done.

Also look at your own attitude about cleaning up the house. I don't know how you handle this but if you are grumbling all the time about cooking, cleaning, dishes, laundry ect they will see chores as a BAD THING. chores are neither good or bad they just are. Take joy in that fact that you have a nice home and cleaning it is a privilege, many people do not have a home. You have food to eat so you have dishes to wash ect. If you stay positive, the mood will transfer to your kids.

Roll Mamazita's and BB's answers into one and that is my advice...parenting isn't a popularity contest, it's about doing what's best for them. And that means you teach them to stop, listen and do what they need to do.

As far as disciplining your six year old, what is her currency, what matters most to her? TV and electronics, going to her friend's house, trip to the movies...whatever it is have her earn it with no sighing and a good attitude.

I also have a 4 and 6 (sounds like 14 year old!). I feel your pain. After much exhuastion, I tried something new...and it seems to be improving. Above all (and this is tough) I keep my calm. Ask nicely twice - then there is a consequence (toys put up or away), we sing songs to brush our teeth (I do acutally - "good bye sugar bugs" and they like it. I also try to focus on really recognizing the positives - when they do listen - I priase. "Thank you (name) for cleaning up you room so nicely, that was so responsible of you" - and a big hug. I also have been givng more attention to them when I talk to them. Getting to their level and making sure they hear me vs. talkign across the room at them. I guess I am in the camp of increased positive feedback (when warranted) and low key, but firm natural consequences. I am getting better and they seem to be responding... Hang in there, I feel your pain!!!

I'm a Kindergarten teacher and would suggest trying something like this:
Putting on PJ....'Whoever gets PJ's on 1st gets the 1st choice of bedtime story,'
Cleaning up...I like the idea of singing a particular song or asking for some help to clean up.
'Little people' need incentives to do things. It doesn't mean that you are spoiling or not being a parent. It means that you need to be creative with your approach. You don't need to bribe ('I'll give you something'). Your home should have rules...like cleaning up after you've played with your toys, washing hand before eating, helping set the table, etc. if they don't follow the rules or behave inappropriate then there also has to be a known consequence. Don't spring the consequence on them because you're frustrated or running out of time. Things like if toys don't cleaned up and Mom has to do it for them then bag up the toys. This happens when they know the consequence and you're not being angry and reacting...do not threaten and taunt them as you bag up the toys. If they push you to the point of taking toys away then calming put the toys away without a lot of discussion and without anger. Later, when they've calmed down, talk to them and mean business. Let them know what they need to do to get them back. This doesn't mean that they get the toys back that day or even the next.
I hope this helps. These are some of the little secrets that teachers use with 'little people'. :)

Have you discussed this with them? I recently had a talk with my 4.5 year old about having to repeat myself. I then showed her how it felt to be ignored one morning, and we then had the discussion again.

I have some rules in our house: no books or stories until (1) in PJs', (2) teeth and hair brushed, and (3) floor cleaned. It's become mostly habitual with my kids at this point. We still have our nights when they are running around playing and I can't get them to focus, but usually a gentle reminder that there will be no books or stories gets them moving.

I am with you here, though. I don't think consequences (taking things away) works. I've been trying to move away from that and to just ask them for help. "I need you to pick up so I don't trip when I come into your room," etc. This doesn't always work, but I find consequences to be mostly irrelevant to the younger set. They actually feed off the excitement of pushing boundaries, so it's like they get in these moods where they just keep on going, and you keep on going, and next thing you know have their prize (stuffed) friend, they get no TV or treats, etc. and they still aren't listening.

My plan as of late really is just be better at listening to them, and using lots of I statements. I will admit that when they are really bad, I will tell them "fine, you can just put yourselves to bed." I then walk away. They usually jump right into their routine.

Wish I had more suggestions but I do think young ones need less commands and more assistance and play. I know I would stop listening if all day long I got a long list of things I had to do......And I really think this is part of the reason they stop, we ask so much of them, and they just want to go play.