Help with My 5 Year Olds Behavior and Parenting in General

I think this is pretty simple. if he displays that kind of behavior, I would put the child outdoors and tell him that pooping on other people's stuff is not indoor behavior. If he is 5 years old, he is aware enough to make the shift, but you cannot display any kind of tolerance to this behavior. He will not want to stay outside by himself for long and will want to come inside and tell him he can only come inside if he is ready and willing to behave like a human, and not an animal. Nothing will change if you are not consistent. Stay strong. He needs boundaries.

I have two boys, ages 5 and 3. The 5-year-old has ADHD, and shows defiance to authority at times. I have read the other responses and agree with most of the disciplines. Be consistent. Get down on his level and make eye contact. Tell him it is unacceptable, have him clean it up, and do time-out or privileges lost. Talk to him about feelings and using his words. You know all that.

I also see the need for individual attention. AND, kids crave structure. (Example, food only at the table. There should not be food in your bedroom!) Set specific times for specific activities.

Things that have worked for me. First, give praise 5 times for every negative comment. Hard, I know. Get creative. "I like that you put your shoes on right away. That was a very big boy thing to do." "You did a good job picking up your toys." Even, "I like the blue shirt you picked to wear today." It needs to be from some specific action your boy did, a decision he made. "That was nice of you to share your toy with your little brother." You get the idea. It acknowledges that they have the ability to make good choices, and it lets them know you notice.

Two, you say you are busy. Get your kids to help. My boys love to vacuum and dust. They help make biscuits, too. They can knead dough like no one's business!

Three, work on relationships with your kids' friends' parents, and arrange playdates. You can send two of them off and have special time with one.

Four, take time out to play with them. Get down on the floor and play with the train set. Put some music on and dance with them. Go outside, and play Ring-Around-the-Rosie. Write a story together; they can draw the pictures and you can help with the words. Then, Dad can read it a bedtime. Or, ask them what they want to do.

Again, give them choices, and praise them for making good choices.

How devoloped are his comunication skills? Does he have the ability to tell his siblings that he is angry or that he does not want to eat his dinner? Ontop of teaching him what you don't want him to do, include what you do want him to do. Try to keep your ear out for things that upset him and have a talk with your other two about clueing you in when the others are fighting(although this might launch you into the tattle-tale stuff). If you can teach him how to find resoulution before he acts out, and the ability to cool down, you may be able to avoid the disipline part all together. The absolutes, no matter what works for your family will be; consistancy, unity, and a cool head on your part.

If you have a realy difficult time with consistancy try posting your house rules and the conquences of them. Make them simple. i.e Respect others property. That way everyone can keep you on track. "Mom, see, he has to apologize and replace my toy. It says right there" at which point you will be forced to roll your eyes put down the dish cloth and march over there to deal with it. It might even give him some redirected power to control the situation instead of react. It doesn't matter that they all can't read written posted signs, to a 2 year old are as good as a cop standing over them.
Good luck to you!

J....I have nothing super helpful to say. I just wanted to give you a vitural hug and say hang in there girlfriend! Being a mom is honestly the hardest job in the world and I can't count the times I have felt like a failure or wondered if I'm seriously screwing up my kids.

I think you're doing great by asking for the help, listening to the advice, etc. I think just finding the discipline system that seems comfortable to you and sticking to it is probably your best bet. We use the supernanny technique (naughty corner) and I know that getting the apology afterwards seems to have a big impact as well. I have found that consistency seems to be the key to everything (even non-discipline things like bedtime routine etc.). I remember my pediatrician telling me one time that kids absolutely thrive on predictability and that is why they can watch the exact same movie 1,000 times. They find security in knowing what the outcome is 100% of the time. So maybe just pick a consequence (time out or whatever) and use it for all discipline issues consistently and see how that goes for a few weeks. I would also consider making your child clean up the poop/pee when that happens. I do this with all kinds of stuff (coloring on walls, etc.) and it works pretty well.

Last but not least, the one on one time thing is also a great thing. We have 2 children and my husband and I both try to do one special thing with each child separately each week. My husband takes our 5 year old to Starbucks after dinner when her pj's are on and they have hot chocholate. They play a game where he makes up a story and tells about 2 lines of it, then she makes up a few lines, and they go back and forth. She lives for that night! It doesn't have to be anything fancy or expensive. Just consistent...My 5 year old knows that Tuesday night is Starbucks w/daddy night.

Anyway, now I'm rambling...have a great day, hang in there and give yourself a break. We're all doing the best we can and I always tell myself "this too shall pass." :)

L.

P.S. I'm at 38 year old stay at home mom to 8 and 5 year old girls.

J.,
One thing we have tried to do every now and then is to have usually my husband take one of the children to starbucks or out just the two of them on weekends. Also letting the other two play quietly while you spend time with one without interuption and reminding them that when it is their turn they will get the same one on one attention. Reading a book together,their choice of a game. I hope you are also letting them halp take care of the animals so you don't have to do everything. Good luck
S. mother of three girls,12, 8 1/2 and 4 1/2

Hi J.!

I know when I am having trouble with my kids, it is usually because I've lost some ground in being bonded well with them. I read a great book by Dr. Sears - his discipline book, that really helped put it all in perspective. A child isn't going to respond well to groundings, priviledges lost, etc if he isn't bonded well with you. Don't feel bad, I think we all struggle with this with at least one of our kids! I think at 5 doing the kind of things he's doing, its time to seek somebody professional to help you guys sort it out and kind of walk out of the scary woods together. My friend was having a lot of trouble with her oldest and she was so amazed how quickly things turned around with a bit of outside help.

Deep breath!

K.

I am a 35 working mom (I was a stay at home mom until my kids started school) My children are 11 and 7. My background is a bachelor's degree in developmental psych and I am a Preschool and Child Care Director. This is very serious. You must treat it as such. Make it very clear to your son that this is unacceptable behavior and will not be tolerated in your home. Your husband MUST be part of this conversation and also MUST be part of the solution. You will not be able to do this on your own. I feel for you, it is so hard, tiring, draining being a stay at home mom! Please understand that I am not judging you and this is just my opinion, I'm not a doctor, just a mom! Your son does not have clear boundaries, you and your husband have not made it clear what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in your home. You must come to him as a united front and make it crystal clear. Then- when he steps over the boundary, the response must be quick and severe. It doesn't need to be a spanking, I'm not talking about physically severe. If he poops or pees around the house, go to him and in a calm, serious voice tell him he has violated a house rule. Don't yell or scream, don't freak out and don't ignore what happened. Decide ahead of time with your husband what his punishment will be and tell him before it happens. Ideas: he needs to clean it up, well! (Give him everything he needs-paper towels, cleaner etc) Watch him, don't nag, offer suggestions, but don't take over. After that, he needs to loose a family privilege-he needs to go to bed early and doesn't get to play a game with Daddy-it needs to be a natural consequence of his behavior-if you choose to have baby behavior, it's early to bed. Don't threaten, yell, belittle or tease- be matter of fact, placing all the responsibility on your son. He is old enough to understand that certain behaviors are not acceptable and will not be tolerated in your family. Talk about how this makes the other children feel-maybe he needs to give up a toy of his own to replace the "ruined" item of his sibling's. It needs to hurt, every child has something that matters to them, a punishment needs to get his attention, but should never be cruel or demeaning! Check out Dr Kevin Leman, he has a great video series on "Making children mind without loosing yours." It may also come in book form. Watch Super Nanny- she is great and it is helpful. Above all be consistent, loving but firm. This is not easy, but it is so important! I hope that something I've said will help you!
-K. M

Hi J., I too am a mother of three: 8yr. boy, 5yr. girl and a 5mo. old son. I sympathize with you and trying to be consistant in your discipline as well in making time to spend one-on-one time with them. Consider maybe having the kids play close or in front of you so you can supervise them easier and be more consistant with your follow through consequeces. Be sure to always remind them of the rules in the household and that disrespect or hiting/bullying will not be tolerated and have some set consequences for that so they know already what to expect if they have offended. I believe that it is also healthy for each of your kids to learn how to play alone in their rooms and for the other syblings to learn to respect that private play time. If they are always together, they will certainly get sick of each other and have more conflicts to overcome. It is good for them to learn how to voice their frustrations and learn how to resolve conflict but they need adult guidance in knowing how to do that so that they do it under self-control and respectfully. It is important to have the offender or those involved in the conflict restore that relationship by making a sincere change of heart apology. If it is not sincere or they are not ready to make peace, then they need to have a consequence again usually like a time out until they are ready to restore the relationship. When I am not able to see or tell what occurred and I feel that they are not being honest usually they all have a consequence until they are ready to be humble & truthful with me. I do believe that your son is desperatly wanting to get your attention by pooping and peeing. All kids want their parents acceptance or approval and love and they will act it out in positive ways or negative ways to get it. Our response is so crucial in breaking their negative behavior and the cycle of it continuing to occur. This is our challenge to stay calm & be a good leader and show self-control at those moments and not to rub what they have done even more in their face because that will only hurt the child plus prolong the negative behavior. Your 5 yr. old should be made responsible to clean-up his messes when he does this when he looses his self-control or gets angry. Of course, you should supervise him and help him clean but he should see how unpleasant it is and that it is not a normal way of expressing your feelings and teach him that there is a better way to express his frustrations and resolve conflict. Continue to take away certain privilages or toys, TV, friends whatever motivates your child and make them responsible for their actions. When you see them trying to make better choices and be more self-controlled even in little things be sure to encourage, reward (not with materialistic things), their improvement and take them out on a special dates or whatever you know will motivate them to be more consistant with their behavior & choices. Note: in all this when your 5 yr. old acts out be sure that the older sibling does not tease him or humiliate or make fun of him, always teach respect in all circumstances as hard as it might be to follow through try to be conscientious of how your kids treat each other. And when we mess up as parents we should be humble enough to ask for their forgiveness. I think sometimes we can be to hard on our kids and expect to much from them so I believe we need to be careful to pick our battles especially with the eating food thing. At our house we just ask that our kids try a new food but if they do not like it we don't force it any further on them because if we did they would be sneaky and do the same thing you have described and I don't believe it is worth exasperating our kids over. It also is very beneficial if Dad could spend one-on-one time with his boys because it strenthens their bond and provides better understanding of your sons and it's invaluable how spending time with your kids fills their love tank. We all need help or helpful tips when it comes to parenting because it certainly is not easy but I believe God has enabled us to be great parents if we ask for His help. I certainly can not do it without Him in my life. My children certainly humble me and point out my faults and flaws that I need to work on and I feel very blessed to have each one of them in my life. I Hope that this can be helpful to you and your family.
God Bless, O. O.

Have you ever heard of the HANDLE Institute? It stands for Holistic Approaches To Neurodevelopment and Learning Efficiency.
The philosophy around this is that what a child acts out, has more to do with what they're trying to say of what's likely going on internally relative to sensory systems needing some strengthening. The body has a language of its own when trying to adapt to over-stimulation. I'd highly recommend looking this up to learn more information. Neurodevelopmental differences.

The Handle Institute's mission is Helping Extraordinary People do Ordinary Things. By providing effective, non-drug diagnosi and treatment for neurodevelopmental challenges among individuals of all ages. Offering clinical services, community information, and professional training featuring a Holistic Approach to NeuroDevelopment and Learning Efficiency. Anyone could benefit from integrative exercises.
Good luck!

P.S. The Handle Institute is not about counseling. What they do is give individulized gentle-enhanced exercises to strengthening & integrating the left/right sides of the body & brain. It can help anyone with ADD/ADHD, Autism, brain damages, or any type of neurodevelopment issues.

I have 3 still at home and hubby with long hours and feel you on a number of levels...unload some of the four legged creatures! Sorry animal lovers out there but when you feel like Cinderella-those other chores can break the proverbial camel's back:)
Your son should be evaluated by a professional. If he is 5 then it would be odd for him to have "learned" these tricks and if the impulses are from him, he may have some deficit. My brother was born with cerebral palsy (difficult delivery and redueced oxygen to otherwise healthy baby) and he had issues very much like what you are describing.
He is so good looking and his deficits outwardly minor that he has "fallen through the cracks" in many ways. Schools tried to mainstream him and he was/is at a disadvantage when he doesn't think or feel like like other kids his age.
I may be over reacting but your story sounds way too familiar. It could also be some ADHD with impulse control issues and counseling may give you both some ideas on how to help manage this.
Good Luck and stay strong!

Hi J.-
I'll make this short. I am a teacher and have had amazing results with the "Love and Logic" way of being with kids (teaching, parenting). There are great books for parents. It is about enjoying your kids, setting limits, teaching responsibility, and feeling good about the choices you offer. It really made me a better teacher who could walk away from the classroom feeling good about myself and how I handled situations (not always the case). The ideas of "Love and Logic" empower you and your kids. I am a SAHM for a 1.5-year-old girl. I am glad I have been able to practice parenting (teaching) before I became a parent!! I know I will use many of the same techniques I use in the classroom. Good luck.

Well, I'm no expert just another mom with boys. But this is what I do know. First, your son is the middle child and there is alot said about the middle child and maybe you might get some books from the library regarding pecking order. Second, yes you need to spend quality time with each one of your children alone. I use to take each one of mine to a place appropriate for their age and their liking. My oldest was very independent and always has acted older than his age, I would let him make the choices. They ran from going to the library to going to the conservatory. He likes to this day our one on one time and we usually do concerts now. My youngest is into basketball now and that is what we do (go to games). Your children have likes already just find out what they are go with it. If it is MacDonald's with mom that is great too! What ever makes them happy. Also, here is just alittle bit about husband participation. I understand that your husband works long hours, but we have all been down that road. Is he part of this family or not? Yes, you are a stay at home mom but you have the kids all the time and you need time to yourself to be a better mom. He needs to take you out on Friday dates and take the kids to the park or wherever on the weekend for half the day. He gets away from his work you need to do the same thing. I call it a moment in the shower. I know you can figure this out for yourself. I still to this day take long showers so that I can think. I do my best thinking in the shower. It's the only quiet time you will see for a long time. I hope I helped just alittle. Just relax!

It sounds like you need to keep up with your current parenting strategies. All your strateties (reward charts, discipline, grounding, time outs, and privilages lost) sound great. The key, as you know, is being consistent each time your child breaks a rule or does not follow a direction.

It's also important to reward your child every time he does something well. Rewards can be in the form of earning a star on a star chart, stickers, or just a simple verbal praise or a pat on the back. Try to give more attention to your children when they are doing well, rather than giving them attention when they are acting up. Often kids will do anything to get attention, even if he/she ends up with a punishment.

FYI, I am a children's mental health therapist who has worked with 100's of children with similar types of behaviors.

Hi J.,
You're right about consistency being a challenge, however crucial. If you haven't already, try giving your son a special responsibility in helping you do a chore like feeding the animals. Maybe by including him in some of the chores that absolutely have to be done, you can have quality time while teaching him values, etc (and have fun). My 5 yr old is pleased with himself to accomplish putting the silverware away. Yesterday I got out magazines (although I don't have many) and he cut pictures out and glued them on paper. And when I cook, I try to think of little tasks he can help me with. Like rinsing the apples or measuring something. Hmm... I could use some more creative ideas myself. Establishing a daily routine, having consistent & appropriate discipline is healthy, as you know. Keep up the good work. Mothering is a hard job sometimes! But I still love it! Jen

Hey J.,

Okay, I'm no doctor or anything, but from the handful of parenting books that I have read, this behavior is actually normal for a kid who is acting out. It sounds like he is acting out due to not getting enough attention what w/ siblings/ husband/ cleaning/ pets/ etc.

But here's the thing. My advice isnt necessarily to try and stretch out your already hectic schedule to try and cater exclusively to him, its to try and schedule a day/ afternoon/ whatever exclusively TO YOU. You are stressed and stretched beyond belief, and you need to try and get yourself balanced in order to handle your stress. After that, it should be easier to be consistant w/ punishment. Since thats the other thing. Your son realizes that he can get away w/ things, and he is pushing you. No one really gives kids credit for the amazing things they figure out at such a young age, but its true.

Let me clarify everything so far: you are a great mother and wife, just a little frazzled. You need some "you time." This is neither selfish, NOR bad parenting. Your son is a great kid, and completely normal. He just needs some consistancy w/ love and punishment. I think your forms of punishment are fine, just not consistant enough. Its something I struggle w/ too! Anyway, keep us updated on what happens, and if you need anything, just message me!

I can't give much advice as my children arn't at that age yet. And I'm not really sure what to do about the first issue. But about hiding the food, just make sure he knows that he doesn't have to eat everything on his plate as long as he eats some. Let him know that if he doesn't want it, it is okay to throw it away or save it for later. And when you find the hidden food, make sure he is the one who has to throw it away or clean it up, then maybe he won't want to go through the work of doing it and stop. Maybe if he is the one that has to clean up his poo he will stop that too. He will see it isn't very fun to do that!! And as the other responses say, praise him when he finishes cleaning up, tell him how nice it looks, he did a great job, etc.