Help with My Son

I completely agree with Catherine -- get him on Accutane. His skin will peel a lot and be red but it works!

And, it is the ONLY thing that works for severe cystic acne.

And by the way, I've met Catherine, and you would never in a million years think she'd ever had severe acne. She has smooth, gorgeous skin, not the typical scarred, pitted skin people usually have once they've had bad acne. Proof of the effectiveness of Accutane.

Get him to a different dermatologist right away, and have them put him on Accutane! After 6 months on that, he'll have the most beautiful skin you've ever seen, and it will last FOREVER. Prescribing antibiotics for cystic acne is like throwing a cup of water on a forest fire - the dermatologist just needs to step up and give him the good meds that really work.

In case you're wondering, I had acne and finally went on Accutane in my early 20's - WOW did I wish I'd done it 10 years earlier! It made a huge difference almost immediately. Granted, it does have serious side effects, however they are manageable. If you start now, he'll have good skin by the time school starts in the fall. Good luck!

That is very sad. You should do multiple things at once: get him on another medication (change doc's if need be) and change his diet. Have him go to an allergist and be tested for possible allergies to food and environment. Maybe speak with a dietician who has dealt with this issue.

Hi C.-
I am so sorry for your son. HOrmones are hard enough without severe acne. I am wondering if you have tried to change his diet. I know that there are other factors, but cysts seem to me to be something in the body that needs to get out of the body- all that puss. My thoughts are that he needs to go vegetarian- very little dairy if any. He can get his calcium through other avenues. Meat is ok- small amounts of fish, chicken. But steer clear of red meat and def. no junk food, no soda, not even juice. The amount of refined sugars in most food now days can do a number on the body and the skin. As far as supplementation goes, try colloidial silver (cream can be rubbed on the skin), probiotics, and herbs that support his immune system like kyolic garlic.
Alot of times antibiotics can be too harsh onthe body. They are good for a number of things, but if they are not working on his acne, he needs something else. Clean up his diet and his body from the inside out.
I found a link: http://www.cysticacne.net/Cystic-acne-natural-treatment.html
It has a load of treatment links on the side, but this one talks about diet. I would stay away from the accutane if you can. Both my husband and my sister tried it when they were teens and it had a devastating effect on their mental health.
Here are some online support groups he can get involved in:
http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Acne/support-group
http://curezone.com/dis/1.asp?C0=1830
http://www.mdjunction.com/acne
http://ezinearticles.com/?Coping-With-Cystic-Acne&id=...
http://asgic.proboards.com/index.cgi
I hope this helps your son. Just keep reminding him how handsome he is and whenever he complains, respond with a positive attitude. I know it is really hard, but a positive outlook that this will not last forever.
Good luck!
-E. M
Hi C.- I wanted to add one more thing that I truly believe in. Topical treatments only treat the outside of the body. Facials are temporary. ALot of meds severely dry out the skin and the oils he needs are stripped as well as the bad stuff.Please try the diet and vitamins and herbs. See a specialist or an OD who knows what they are doing. If all that fails, then try the harsher stuff, but if you can, steer clear of it. There is a reason teh side effects are so severe.
Thanks
-E.

If your visit to the dermatologist didn't help, go back and tell him he needs to recommend something else, or find another dermatologist! Fourteen is such a terribly sensitive age, and other kids can be so mean. He must really be having a bad time.

You might also want to look up the condition on some of the medical web sites, and see if they give any ideas of how it is treated. Good luck.

Hi I have a 15 yr old son that has the same problem. We took him to the doctor and he prescribed a topical gel, some specail cleanser and antibiotics to take by mouth to get rid of the infection that he had internally. Take him back to the dermatologist and tell the dr that you need to try something else. There are so many medications out there to help with severe acne. The cysts are painful and embarassing so keep trying til you find something that works. Poor kid, being a teenager is so tough and this just adds to it. My heart just hurts for him. Hang in there.

I too suggest you get your son on accutane. The benefits outweigh the risks. There have been advances in medicine since it was first used and children are not placed on this medication for long. I have seen friends and children of friends use this medication with excellent results.

This is already a very difficult time for your son; bad/unclear skin can only make it more so.

Best of luck!

Consult the dermatologist, but Accutain worked for my husband as well. He to this day has very dry skin and sebaria from it, but nothing a little lotion doesn't fix. Also, he went through TWO cycles of the accutain before it worked...(he had cronic red cheejs he had the worst cystic acne his derm had ever seen. He used to have to wear two shirts to school because they would bleed through the undershirt and the first shirt. he has scars down his neck, shoulders and spine. He wishes his parents would have done the accutain sooner so he wouldn't be so scarred. They also used to inject cortizone shots into the cysts on his face to try to get those to go away...that didn't work either. He had one on his face for almost a year and finally went away with the accutain. Im not saying i think the stuff is great, all I am saying is it works....with side effects. it may not be the answer for your son, but it is worth looking into.

Good luck, and i hope this clears up...
D...

C.,
Here is our story. I grew up with acne, zits, blackheads you name it. I had them up until I turned 32. Then I started getting the cyctic acne. After three antibiotics and different types of skin stuff, I finally changed dermatologists. I ended up on acutane. I never knew what I was going to look like everyday. I had them in my cheeks, next to my mouth and chin area. I did not want to make eye contact with people because I did not want them to ask questions. For some of us it is not just a phase that will go away, we need serious help with it. I now do not have any acne, and it has been 7 years. I still get a blackhead or two, but that is it. My dermatologist name is Dr John Kasch, in downtown sacramento. He is the best one I have ever been to. My middle child has some acne issues, but only uses benzacline that is prescribed by her doctor. I wish you luck with all of this, it is a struggle, and if you switch to another doc, take any meds you have tried with you so you won't have to try them again. I actually have scars from one doctor puncturing cysts that were under the skin. And yes, they do hurt to touch.
W. M.

Bless him. My brother had cystic acne growing up and he still has the scars - both emotional and physical and he is nearly 50.

Please reassure your son that when people stare it is not necessarily because they are grossed out. For me, when I notice a young person with acne, I look because I remember how my brother felt and it breaks my heart.

You have received loads of great advice, so I won't add much more. I just quickly wanted to say that my brother's acne finally cleared up when he went to a homeopath to be tested for allergies and it turned out he had loads of food intolerances that were making his systems not function properly. It might be worth visiting one to see what they say.

Good luck to you and to your son. I send you all my positive thoughts.

Hi C.,

My son and I both have acne and I know how devastating it can be. I have a few tips
1. Keep him on the antibiotics. It takes a while (sometimes a couple months) but it does work, make sure that he taking them on a regular schedule. If he takes them once a day, have him take them at night before bed.
2. Have him wash with salacitic acid wash. I get mine from the Kaiser pharmacy (not prescription) and it is called Sal-Ac.
3. Treat the really bad ones with Neosporin. They are a sore and should be treated as one. If one is especially bad, put a band-aid on it over the neosporin.
4. Make sure that his skin is extra clean and his hair is pulled back off of his face at all times, especially at night. Showering and washing his hair before bed is a good idea
5. Also, make sure that he changes his pillowcase every night before bed.
6. Keep his fingernails as short and clean as possible so that when/if he picks at them, they don't get re-infected and keep him from touching his face as much as possible. Hand sanitizer is a must for him to have in his pocket at all times so that he keeps his face ultra clean.
7. Have him get plenty of sun on his face, the sun dries the sores up. Clorine also helps so take him to the pool regularly.

Finally, when his skin isn't so broken out (open sores, etc.) get Pro-active. I swear by it. They send it to you every month and it REALLY works.

If you do all these things, it should be cleared up by the end of the summer. One last thing, eliminate various foods one at a time (milk, wheat, etc) and make sure that he is not allergic to something. Allergies can come on overnight so what he was fine with all of his life might now be wreaking havoc with his skin.

T.

I agree with the others. I went on accutane as a teenager and it helped tremendously. I needed a second course of treatment about 1 year later. There is no topical product that will do the same thing.
I feel for your son. It is such a difficult thing to go through.
Good luck.

Hi C., I was told by our family DR to try Hydrocortizone 1% bedfore bedtime after my daughter showered. It has worked A LOT, her skin is clearing out, the cystic acne from her forehead are almost gone. It doesn't hurt to try, just make sure he washes his face in am. GOOD LUCK!

Accutane will definitely help clear up the the extreme acne cysts. Our dermatologist recommended it for my youngest son (now 33) when he was 14. His skin cleared up within a couple of months during which time I also started him on a good skin care regimen which included Jafra's Malibu Miracle Mask. This product contains botanicals and works extremely well at drawing out excess sebum. I know many individuals that used ProActive successfully for up to 6 months, at which point it doesn't work anymore. You can check out Jafra's quality skin care products and Malibu Mask at my website www.myjafra.com/LALLEN1 or email back and I'll provide any information you need.

Hi C.,

I feel for you and your son. You have gotten some good advice, However accutane can be very dangerous even though affective. I have noticed some comments on how when they were young or someone they knew was young went on it. There has been recent studies since then that has been very questionable. I do agree with antibiotics just not that one. I am a licensed Esthetician and I work at a skin care shop. There are alot of skin care treatments that could benefit your son. Also on your first facial your sons facial should be examined under a woods lamp which is greatly afffective because you can find out what the cause is. Hormones or oil and that determines how you treat it and what products he should be using on a daily basis. I actually use organic fresh herbs in my treatments, does wonders for skin. Good Luck and if you have any questions feel free to contact me.
J.
____@____.com

ACCUTANE! Your son's cystic acne can be cured. When I first met my husband, he was 26 and had terrible cystic acne since age 13. I told him about Accutane and we went to a dermatologist and asked specifically about it. We told him we were interested in any more antibiotics that never work to treat this type of acne. Six months after starting the Accutane, the acne was gone and never came back. There are potential side effects, as there are with all medications. They will monitor his liver enzymes very closely and if they start to elevate, they will take him off. This did not happen to my husband. I now have a young son, and if he had cystic acne I would get him on Accutane as soon as possible before he developed scars, both physical and emotional. I wish you and your son all the best!

C.,

Cystic acne is tough to treat and since teenagers are not always kind this makes it harder on people like your son. I recommend a holistic approach to treating the acne. Arbonne (www.arbonne.com) has a skin care line that works amazingly well and even includes a supplement to help the skin. Changing your son's diet is also quite important to make sure he isn't eating too much wheat or sugar. If you want more information about the Clear Advantage Skin Care line please contact myself (____@____.com) or find a consultant through Arbonne's website.

Acutane is effective but look into the side effects before making that decision.

I hope you and your son find something that works. Take care!

C. B Palmer
www.linabean.myarbonne.com

I'm surprised no one else suggested Proactive. I get awful cyst like acne (looks like there are 6-7 white head in one huge pimple). Anyway, when I got pregnant my doctor told me the only safe item I could use was Proactive. I tried it and it worked better then any medication or product I had used in all my 40 years. When the economy took a dump I cancelled my subscription to try something cheaper and immediately I broke out with huge painful acne. About 3 weeks later I went right back to Proactive.
You can wash with it twice a day, but I've had success only washing with it in the morning. The "basic" plan comes with a cleanser, an astringent, and a lotion.
You know if it's safe to use when you are pregnant it will be safe for your son.

Hi C.,

I'm so sorry your son is going through this. People are very cruel when it comes to having acne.

I suggest getting him on Accutane as soon as you can. I had horrible cystic acne as a teenager and I have many scars (face, ears, neck, back & chest) from years of ineffective treatments. Finally in my 20's a dermatologist prescribed me a round of Accutane, and I wish I would have known about it sooner!

Also, while he is dealing with breakouts now, I suggest getting the individual cysts injected. After the birth of my daughter I have started to break out again (not much though). If I do get a cyst my dermatologist takes me right in and injects it with a steroid shot. It's a little uncomfortable, but nothing compared to the pain of an inflamed cyst.

I don't know where you live or what insurance you have, but Dr. Bhatnagar in Redwood City is AMAZING. I'm happy to send you his info if you're interested.

Good luck! If you start treatment soon he should be pretty clear (and maybe just a little red) by the time school starts in fall.

Hi C.,

I never had cystic acne when I was a teenager, but had pretty bad break outs in high school. I don't know what medicines they are prescribing now. At the time I was put on Retin-A and then had a number of facials from a very good facialist and it really helped my skin. It's very hard as a teenager with acne. I would definitely recommend going to a few facials if it's within your budget and is recommended by your son's dermatologist.

Best of luck

my aunt got rid of hers with Accutane. Good luck to you and your son, it really is a tough phase.

I had this same condition growing up...and it turned out to be rooted in untreated Celiac disease and food intolerances/allergies to dairy, corn and soy. Large amounts of sugar and most chemicals (in food)will also trigger an episode (Trader Joe's has been wonderful to find things). It cleared up substantially within two weeks of going gluten free, and cleared completely when the rest of the food allergies and intolerances were considered. If I end up inadvertently eating something I shouldn't, I have trouble with it again. I know this is not what the doctors will tell you, but after years of suffering and going to them without results, this is what my experience has been, so take it for what it's worth. If you do want to get him checked for Celiac disease or gluten intolerance (which double blind tests by the Red Cross show is a very common illness - about 1/100) you can have a simple blood test done. Just make sure he continues to eat exactly as he has been, because if he tries to go gluten free ahead of time, the tests usually come back negative. I had a friend tell me that your skin is a mirror of how well your digestive system is functioning...in my case at least, this information has proved very valuable. I hope you get the help you need for him. Poor thing! Please let him know he is not alone in this, there are lots of people out there who have felt the same pain over this. He too will find his answers.

Iam so sorry for you and your son. I went thru this with a couple of my kids also. I guess the first thing to remember is the bacteria causing the breakouts have been in his pores for a year, this is what we learned from our pediatrician. When we were dealing with this before, we tried Retin A and antibiotics. It would be a good idea to look at his diet, and try an elimination diet. Dairy and wheat may be aggravating him. I found with one of my children Tea Tree Oil (you can find it in pharmacies OTC) applied after cleansing with a cotton ball worked well. It may sting a little, so wait 5 minutes after cleansing. She applied it three times a day. The child we are currently helping thru acne is using the Professional Skin Care series from Avon and it seems to help him, his biggest issue is MAKING sure he is cleaning his face when we send him in to do so LOL. After a day or two, he looks much better (after he thinks he is being sneaky and not using his routine). If you need more info on the Avon product, let me know. Good luck!

D.

Get him on Accutane - NOW! I'm in my late 40's now and living with the scars of acne - both physical and emotional. Took the medication while college in my early 20's. It knocked my acne right out! Wish I could have taken it sooner. Good luck to you and your son.

1. He needs to clean up his diet...cystic acne are hormonal..he needs to balance his hormones: cut out sugar, coffeine, most flour...processed foods...2. He needs to give skin nutrition, lots of vit C and Omega 3's, minerals such as zinc 3. Needs to add topical: Virgin Coconut oil is great externally+internally. Dont go for quick fixes like accutane.

-J.

Hi C., try Katherine Leverette she's in Oakland, a great skin specialist.

My daughter suffered from the same thing. Talk to your dermotologist about 'Accutain'. It is a very intense acne medication that is used only for severe acne cases like your sons. My daughter had cystic acne and went on it. It is a 5 month treatment and it cleared her up completely. She has beautiful clear smooth skin now and she is on her last month of treatment. It is pricy, but if a dermatologist prescribes it, the insurance covers it. It is a very intense regime, one pill daily and every month they go online and sign a pledge that they will follow the rules while on it, monthly liver and colesterol tests, for girls manditory pregnancy tests. This is because it is so powerful. It is a way to get your son back in the flow of being who he is really is and not a boy who hides because of his acne. I really reccommend you talk to his doctor about it. I am usually not a pill pusher....but I know how serious acne can effect a person. It changed my daughters life.

I am also surprised the doctor hasn't prescribed Accutane yet. I too had bad acne...some cystic. I tried EVERYTHING, and once I did, the doctor finally gave me a prescription for Accutane. I used very good skincare products, antibiotics, kept my skin clean, etc., and absolutely nothing helped. It is possible it's just something in the body's system...hormones usually for females...don't know if hormones also effect the skin for males also...probably they do. I finally took Accutane and was so happy I did. I had a 100 percent improvment!!! There are side effects, sun sensitivity, really dry eyes, nose, lips, and others side effects that I can't remember right now. Triglycerides levels need to be checked each month, and of course this doesn't apply to your son, but females need to show proof of being on birth control in order to get a prescription from their doctors. If one becomes pregnant while Accutane is in their system, it can cause extreme birth defects to the baby. Good luck to you and your son.

Hi C.~ I feel for your son as I've been there before too.. After numerous appointments with a number of different dermatologist with little or no help I was told by a family friend that it could be a reaction to dairy.. I went off dairy for a few weeks and most of it cleared up! At least it's worth a try! Accutane also worked pretty well however I wasn't fond of the side effects.. Best of luck to your son!
H.~

Hi C., I am sorry you are going through that. My son has terrible acne and he is 21. We have tried everything. There is a new product that just came out that they advertise all the time on TV. They say it is better than Pro-Active, which never worked. They sell it at Longs, Target etc... it is called Acne Free. It is not expensive and it is working on my son. Of course everyone is different, but you might want him to give it a try. Good Luck

My grandson had it to ..so bad the antibioties didn't help they seems to itch and he was always scrathing them..Noxema helps with that..but time is the answer the more he plays with them the more they spread..but he isn't alone my grandson tried everything

C., I'm so sorry your son is going through this painful time in his life. I'm glad he has such a supportive and loving mother to help him through it. The only advise I can give you is to see a nutritionist.It's so important what we put inside our bodies, especially at this age. I would also go to a different dermatologist to get a 2nd opinion on the drugs. I hope the other moms here will be able to help you. Best of luck to both of you.

Hi,
I do skin care parties with Body Shop & Pink Papaya, and the tea tree products are amazing!

I do not know about this acne other than retinol, but have you tried a really good brand of tea tree oil. I use it for everything. My daughter finally go rid of her baby's MRSA with this. Get the kind that is kind of thick when you turn the bottle upside down and it smells badly, but you might try it. I would be curious to see if it works so let me know if it does. Thanks.

Have your Dr. Prescribe Benzamyacin for him it's the only thing that has worked for me

Here's my take on the situation. I am also a licensed esthetician and worked for a spa and a plastic surgeon for years. I am no longer in the field because i needed to make more money however my father had cystic acne (reason i got into skin care, i had acne but not cystic yet) and it horribly scarred his skin for life. Ice Pick scarring is sad and depressing as these teens grow out of the acne part of it. Please treat it right away!!! This is urgent and all the money you spend now really saves your son later in life, trust me! I do believe in Accutane for people with cystic acne because they need something very aggressive to treat this problem. Accutane however needs to be closely monitored because my best friends daughter had kidney issues while taking Accutane but that is rare. Retin-A is a topical solution that helps to break down the sebum/sebaceous glands on the surface and removes the top layer of the epidermis (skin) also called the horny layer. You need to break down this top thick layer so the sebum or puss can come out more easily. I also recommend changing his diet drastically. Acne on the cheeks signify poor diet, forehead stress and chin is hormonal (yes for men too) I'd eliminate diary from his diet as much as he can tolerate and get him to drink a good amount of lemon water a day. The lemon in the water though is sounds acidic actually keeps your blood Ph at an alkaline/neutral Ph balance. There are so many elements to skin care and cystic acne that most people do not know. Please do research online and talk to a Dermatologist for Retin-A or Accutane and please also take him consistently to get a good facial. I know this sounds like a lot of money but the poor guy is going to get depressed further if not taken care of properly. I hope i don't sound preachy but Ice Pik Scarring is no joke and its very unattractive when they are older. Please let me know if you have any questions. OH also...CYSTIC...TRUE CYSTIC ACNE is SO UNBELIEVABLY PAINFUL YOU HAVE NO IDEA!!!

Best Wishes!

Hi C.!,

You must contact Face Reality skin care clinic! Laura and Patrick and their staff are amazing. When my doctor finally recommended Acutane (a very scary drug with horrible side effects) I looked outside the hospital/dermatolagist circles.
Face Reality had just started then, and they've grown so much over the years because they really care about their clients and get results! No scary drugs. You can tell them I referred you.

1-###-###-####. 155 Callan Ave. San Leandro, ca 94577.

I really hope this helps, because I know how hard acne is to deal with.

M. Singh

I hope you find your answers in the many many responses you have received- I feel for you and your son. I wish I had a better, more complete answer, but here is one more thing to think about. Products with salicylic acid & glycolic acid (the active ingredients in many OTC treatments) actually made my skin worse. I had better luck going with the most gentle of cleansers for sensitive skin and not specifically for acne treatment.
Best of luck to you and yours

dont know if accutane works on cystic, but look into it. i took it at 14 and it literally changed my life. i am sooo cautious with medicines with myself and my kids at this point and i have already come to terms with the fact that if my kids are in the same position i was, i would support that choice for them. good luck.

I know a lot of people have already said this, but I totally agree with the Accutane! I started getting terrible acne when I was in Junior High. It was awful and so bad for my self-esteem. I tried Tetracycline, minocycline, Retin-A, prescription face wash, etc. It seemed like nothing worked and my skin, aside from the acne, was so red from all the other products, meds, etc. When I was 22 I moved to the Bay Area and got a new Derm. He immediately put me on Accutane. I know there is controversy associated with its side effects, but the benefits far outweighed the risks for me. I was on it for 6 months and my skin has been so much better ever since (I'm now 32). I still have minor breakouts with my cycle but I'm talking 1 or 2 cysts as opposed to the dozens I'd get at a time back then!
Good luck, hang in there, he'll get through this and it will just be a memory. It's so tough, though.

Ask your pediatrician about a referral to a pediatric dermatologist. The doctors at UCSF are great. Cystic acne is difficult to treat but should be treated aggressively or he could end up with permanent scarring. I've seen remarkable results with the proper treatment, especially Accutane, which of course, needs careful followup. Standard acne medicines won't do much.
I'm a pediatrician with 38 years of experience, father of 3 and grandfather of 2.
Jerry

Both my siblings had this issue and Accutane was the resolution (during their teens.) Is there a reason his dermatologist has not recommended it? I'd see another dermatologist as well. Teen acne can be physically and psychologically scarring.

GL

check out bestacnetreatmenttips.com for free info. i thought it was helpful.

Hi C.,

I feel for your son - I had the same thing in high school, and I still have scars. What I found worked for me was the MD products with glycolic acid in them. I found mine through an esthiticion (spelling) that worked for a dermatologist. I think you can now buy it online. I hope you find a product soon. I'm surprised the dermotolgist hasn't been more helpful.
J.

Hi. So sorry to hear that your son is going through this -- serious acne really is a nightmare. I would recommend seeing a good dermatologist and requesting Accutane. I know there is some fear out there about Accutane, and yes, it is a powerful drug. But, you only take it for 5 or 6 months, whereas you can be on antibiotics for years with very little results. And, it makes an enormous difference for the type of acne you describe. Life-changing drug -- seriously. Good luck to you.

I feel for your son. That is such a difficult age, and to be any kind of different makes it worse. I would take him to a skin spa salon, or to a person who can work with him one on one. The doctor may need to drain the cysts, but I would highly recommend staying away from antibiotics. They will wreak havoc on his immune system. But, the skin is an organ, and often what is put in our bodies will find its way out of our skin. Hormones, of course, play a part, but I would highly suggest he get off all sugar, soda, candy, chips, greasy fast food, etc. If you can get him to drink a lot of water, ensure he is using good skin care products as recommended by the skin care professional that you get to work with him, and have him eat lots of fruits and vegetables, he will get through this passage. Also, you might want to try getting some aloe vera juice. He can drink it, and apply it topically as a natural anti-septic.
Good luck and God Bless!

I wish I had help. I just had to respond because my heart was broken reading your letter. I have a son that is 13 and teased a lot for being too thin and a nerd.I just wept reading it. I pray that the dermatologist will follow up with you and find something to help him. Be persistant. If paying is an issue please seek help.I know I am "preaching to the choir". Thank you for loving and caring for your children. I pray other mothers can help you. He is definetly not alone with this problem. Give him a hug and make sure he knows he is worth something. God Bless! I hope he has a fun summer and will let himself enjoy life!

I'd go to a specialist, like at Stanford. Different case, but my daughter had a rash on her leg for about 3 years now. for a long time her dr and I thought it was eczema and treated it for that. But then it started to grow, so we went to a dermatologist. He was stumped and even did a biopsy and still couldn't figure out what it was. We went to Stanford and they were a little upset that he did the biopsy, but they prescribed something else for a differnt type of molluscum. I didn't agree because she had molluscum and it was not the same, even when I googled some pictures of worse cases, there was nothing like hers. We used the prescription anyway and now it is almost gone. We go back for a follow up next month. Again, different case, but just suggesting a specialist. We went to stanford or Lucille Packard, in Mt. View.

I hope and pray things work out for all of you. This doesn't just affect your son, I know how this can affect all of you. take care.