This is a long story, but there is a boy who has been in my oldest daughter's class at school on and off since kindergarten. I think I realized even then that he was sort of annoying, but I was busy with my middle daughter and infant daughter at the time so I was a little oblivious. Anyway, he never bothered us until the summer after my daughter finished third grade. Then, he called and asked her to play. I let them play a couple of times at his house (while I visited with the mom) and once at my house. After that it dawned on me that I really didn't like the mother, or her kid. She's rude, gossipy, pushy, unintelligent, uses bad language (hey, once in a while we all let one slip but she regularly drops f-bombs--classy). Her son is also rude, pushy, and not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. As soon as the playdates would be over he'd be calling us on the phone asking to play again. I mean calling over, and over again, leaving messages every time. In one message he even stated that he 'knew we were home". Very creepy. Even the mom called and left a rude sounding message to call back because her son wanted to play. Most people seem to understand that if you don't respond after a couple of messages are left, that you should stop pestering the person because they don't want to be bothered. I don't understand the mental state of people who can't grasp this common sense rule! Well, we ended up switching elementaries for fourth grade, (and not just because of this situation) and that got her away from him for a year. This year, however, for fifth grade, he has switched to her current school. Thankfully, he's in the other class, they don't eat lunch together, and she avoids him at recess. He's not really calling us anymore, which is great! but, he did graffiti on some of the playground equipment that my daughter is 'hot'. This gives me (and her) the creeps so badly--he's only an 11 year old but I'm worried that he may have developed some sort of obsession with her and I don't know how mentally stable he is. My daughter says he's already completely disliked and ostracized at the new school. I'm afraid he is going to grow up to be a sociopath and the last thing I want is for him to have an unhealthy interest in my daughter. The mom is unreasonable and uber-defensive about her child (aren't we all!). What to do?????
Thank you so much for all of your answers, you guys are the best!! It probably does sound like I'm overreacting, but it's all mental at this point, I haven't had a meltdown in the principle's office or anything! My daughter has a unique name so there is no doubt the graffiti referred to her, and we're 99% sure he did it (he admitted it to another kid). It was written inside of a tunnel where only kids could fit, so it wouldn't have been visible to the adults. But ALL the kids knew about it--my younger daughter's friends scratched it out when they saw it (good girls!). I am going to let this one slide--I can't photograph it and I can't prove to the principle that he was the one who did it, but if there are any other incidents I won't hesitate to discuss it. I have told my daughter, and will tell the boy's mother as well, in no uncertain terms--we are not doing boy-girl playdates anymore. It's only the first week of school and already two boys have expressed interest in my daughter as a girlfriend. I know this is normal development but my daughter isn't ready for a boyfriend (who is at 10 years old!) and it makes us both a little uncomfortable. I have three daughters anyway--and I want them to focus on making girlfriends that they have lots in common with--that will help them in the long run more than anything, I think.
The kids is going to do what he is taught. I say tell her to stay away from him and ignore his calls. I think giving him attention will make it worse.
Do you know for sure that it was him that made the graffiti on the school's playground equipment? Does the school know about it? Point being, if he is defacing school property and it involves your references to your daughter, why not bring it up with the principal? Not saying the kid should be accused of sexual harrassment or anything, but he should be disciplined by the school, and he sounds like he needs help. Most schools have anti-bullying policies and perhaps what this kid did could be construed as bullying? If it is brought to the school's attention, THEY will need to deal with the boy's mother, not you.
First, relax. You've said nothing here that would indicate that he's going to be a sociopath. Everything you've described indicates that he's socially immature and unaware. So is his mother. They are not sensitive to the nuances of social relationships. People like this are annoying but probably deserve to be pitied rather than judged.
If your daughter's school has a counselor, I suggest that she go to that person and explain what is happening. How did the school authorities handle the graffiti? I suggest that the person who handles discipline (often the vice principal) can have a talk with him about the inappropriate use of the word and while doing that find out what the boy's intent actually is.
I suggest that he did this to get her attention. He apparently enjoyed play dates with her earlier and now he's new to the school, lacks friends and wants to play with her. I suggest that instead of staying away from him, she does pay attention some of the time. Fifth graders are beginning to be aware of sexuality and inappropriately copy what they've seen or heard adults do. My granddaughter is in the fifth grade and I volunteer at school. I've not seen any indication that any of them are feeling sexy. They are just aware of that facet of growing up. I blame alot of it on TV.
Given your experience with him and his mother I suggest that he watches inappropriate TV programs, movies and hears "hot" at home too. At this point, based on my experience and your limited description, I see no reason to be fearful.
I do see this as children being at an awkward age and not knowing how to skillfully handle this social situation. I suggest that a teacher or a counselor can help both of them learn how to be comfortable with each other for brief periods of time.
By ignoring him, your daughter is creating more interest from him. Don't we usually want what we can't have? Some even say that the fun is in the hunt. I've found those with that attitude to be immature and unable to have a good relationship with someone else.
I also suggest that you need to be honest with his mother and if play dates come up again tell her that her son and your daughter do not have anything in common and you don't want to encourage them to play together. Use general nonjudgmental terms. If she's upset, that's her problem. Unless, you're definite in what you expect she will keep trying because as you said, she doesn't catch on. And she gets frustrated causing her poor attitude and behavior.
I see this as an opportunity for your daughter to learn compassion. He is a sad child that doesn't fit in and masks his pain with inappropriate behavior. She doesn't need to spend time with him. She can say hi and wave or stop for a brief conversation when he's persistent. Then she cans say, "I've gotta go" as she dashes across the playground. I often see kids doing this. It's so obvious that they're uncomfortable and I smile to myself knowing that they are learning an important skill. How to get away from someone or some situation without being rude.
He won't take the hint. I've known people who continued to be "out of the loop" as adults. I'm kind in a somewhat cool way. I keep my distance without being rude.
BTW if you truly believe he's dangerous, ignoring him, telling him to get lost or in any way directly offending him will make him angry and may escalate his behavior. The key to dealing with dangerous people is to be kind while maintaining boundaries. And never show fear. Ignoring is one way of showing fear. Smile, say hi, and keep on walking. Be confident enough in yourself that you don't have to "play his game." This attitude will go far in helping you get along with all sorts of people.
Remember, at 10 and 11, these kids are still "babes" learning the next step in social skills. They are aware of the opposite sex as being the opposite sex while up until now they saw each other mostly as kids. Help your daughter have confidence in her ability to manage her relationship with this "creep." Laugh about his creepy actions. He won't be the last one in her life. Help her to not run away because it's difficult. Help her to build boundaries within which she will become comfortable.
I suggest that your daughter takes her cues from you about how to feel about this boy and his attitude. I suggest, it's a no big deal" attitude will stand both of you in good favor. The school counselor and teacher, principal, vice principal can help you sort this out so that you can have confidence in being safe.
My comments would be different if this boy kills cats, regularly picks fights during which the other boy is injured or has a juvenile record involving fighting and/or drugs or if he makes threats to injure her or anyone else.
Talk with the school. They'll know his record. They have experience with all different kinds of kids and will be realistic in making an assessment of danger.
Whoa... what a dicey situation...
DOCUMENT everything, including what you wrote here in your post, which chronicles everything.
At least your daughter seems to have real common sense... you need to know for sure, that it was that boy... that did the graffiti. And does the graffiti say your daughter's name? Verbatim? Or does she just assume the graffiti is about her???
Take a photo of it.... to document it... before the school paints over it.
Keeps tabs on things.... document it... if that boy is directly... affecting daughter at school or at home by calling etc., ANY untoward behavior... you need to document it and speak to the school about it.
I know things like this happens to adults... even in college something like that happened to me... which I involved the police/restraining orders etc.
But, the guy was harassing/stalking me directly. Not just me guessing it.
... interesting, that the boy, now in 5th grade, now goes to your daughter's school. Too.
But it is all assumptions.
Are you and the boy/his family your neighbor??
Thus, how did this boy come over to your home... before?
It does seem creepy... because odd behavior by the boy, has been done to your daughter at your home and him calling... and. now, he goes to the same school etc.
I would certainly, talk to your daughter... about not interacting with this boy, about safety etc. She is NOT his friend anyway... he just sort of pushed himself into being a play-mate and wanting to play with your daughter... previously etc.
What a seemingly problematic continuum... but you need to PROVE these things.... and document it if it is 'harassment' or otherwise. And, then talk to the school.... per 'bullying' or harassment etc.
AND IF your daughter... is scared about it... is she?
Or is it just a case of you/she not liking him/his Mom?
all the best,
Susan
I am comming from this in a different manner than most people. This child has been taught by his mother and is desperate to get away from her to an enviroment that is better.
I have been a foster mother long enough to have seen a lot of this, I also have 5 children. If he has really written on school property then you have a valid reason for talking to the school and requesting that they watch and protect your child. Document all these requests. But as an 11 year old child raised in a enviroment that you don't like does not mean he will be a criminal or a mean person and its unfair to judge him as such becasue it becomes slander and his mother will have reason to retaliate, and puts you on the same leval as she is in your eyes.
Do you have any idea how lonely life might be being alone,not liked, "ostracized" eatting alone and on top of it being 11. He might be an angry child and I can understand why. You are able to block his phone number, but I will hope that you will be kind to his mother who will want to protect her child just as you wish to yours. If you don't think you can be calm talking to her face to face then write her a note and have the principal give it to her explaining that because of the written words you choose to not have contact anymore.
I am a woman with a special needs child that had few playmates, few people that ever talked to him. Yet these same families that didn't encourage thier children to be friends with him, were church going so called "good people.
He is being raised in an enviroment when children are being forced to grow up in dress, attitude faster than years before. The influence of a musical group has more influence than a great teacher.
Mmm, I'm sorry to hear you're in such an uncomfortable situation.
It's always hard to really understand another person's mental processes, even if we think we do because they're "like us." You can probably think of a few misunderstandings you've had because of that common misunderstanding. But when somebody obviously doesn't "think like us," or have similar social patterns, it's really easy to move from a state of annoyance or discomfort to fear, which, unfortunately, makes it even harder to find an appropriate response to a difficult relationship. It sounds like you are becoming fearful.
This boy sounds lonely, and if he is socially ostracized, he is only likely to become lonelier and get even less modeling of "normal" social interaction. Who's to say what his problem is; poor socialization from his family, or some mental challenge that most of us don't have to deal with, or perhaps he's an Asperger's type who simply isn't able to make sense of what most of us think is "normal" behavior? I'm friends with a few perfectly fine Asperger's kids and adults – they don't mean to be rude; they just don't process emotional cues or take hints as well as the rest of us, and you have to be quite direct with them.
I don't say that so that you or your daughter will feel obligated to try to "save" him socially, but I hope you realize that he's probably just a confused kid with poor modeling at home. What seems "creepy" to you might simply be cluelessness to him. That doesn't mean he's in danger of becoming a threat to society – most such kids grow up and find a way to fit in somewhere.
His focus on your daughter, at his age, is probably the result of few other kids including him in their play. It would seem reasonable to me to take your concerns about the graffiti to the school counselor or vice principal, as much because is could be very awkward for most little girls to be called "hot" by the boys at school as because it is simply inappropriate. Kids can be clueless, but also intentionally cruel when they get hold of rumors. It might also be useful to mention your observation that this boy seems unable to forge "normal" social relationships. The counselor may be able to intercede in a way that is helpful for all concerned.
I hate to say it but I think you are over reacting and over thinking what is going on. He's a kid. Kids develop crushes and do stupid things. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like he has the type of parents that can teach him how to play it cool and not appear to be over eager.
You haven't told us anything that would indicate that he's psychologically unhinged or dangerous. He just sounds like he's a young kid who likes your daughter and doesn't know how to conduct himself properly. That's all. Just tell your daughter to play it cool with him and not to be rude or over reactive and I'm sure that eventually his attention will eventually wane.
To me it sounds like a fairly normal adolescent crush + some badly taught boundaries.
I would just make sure she stays away from him.
To bad he is the hated boy, its an awful place to be. This just might be a crush, but he was inappropriate I agree.
It does not sound as if you are over reacting it sounds as if you maybe over thinking the situation which is what any concerned parent would do. We have not experienced the situation so it would be hard to say you are over reacting (times are different in this day and age and so are people and thier limitations). Outside looking in I would record for myself any negative conversations between the young man and my daughter during school and just keep the distance between your family and his like you have been doing.
Make it clear to your daughter that she is to stay clear of the young man during school (yes it maybe a simple crush)but a simple crush should not affect her school concentration. By all means do not alarm your daughter with the sociopath talk do not discuss the situation around her just make sure she communicates with you any interactions with the young man and if it is a simple crush it will drift off it is more which i doubt you will have written the little incidents down before they become bigger incedents(which i doubt)but better safe than sorry again do not alarm your daughter and casue her to pass judgement on the young man unnecessarily.
If this boy's annoying behavior and lack of social skills has already made him ostracized and disliked at school, then I do feel a little sorry for him. He didn't get that way by himself - he's obviously not getting the parenting he needs at home. He probably doesn't have many friends, or keep them long, if he and his mother are obnoxious. He might have thought your daughter would be friends with him again when they were in the same school. But feeling compassion for him doesn't mean your daughter has to put up with any obsessive behavior directed at her. He probably got the message if he no longer calls, but now is the time to teach your daughter how to deal with unwanted attention from boys. My daughter had a high school boyfriend who became controlling and obsessive, and it was very hard for her to get him out of her life. Girls need to know how to spot a boy who's overly possessive. Having said that, writing graffiti that says a girl is 'hot' doesn't mean this boy is a sociopath in the making. And you can't really address his problems anyway. But at 11, your daughter's social life is completely in your hands. Make sure she doesn't see him outside of school, or respond to any calls or interact with him online, and he'll get the message. She doesn't have to be mean, but she has to be direct and let him know that she's not interested in hanging around with him.
Try to keep cool about this. 11 year olds do have crushes, unfortunately our society is so filled with sex and sexual innuendos that kids don't have a clue how to appropriately "like" someone. I would not worry too much about this situation, but I would inform the principle that you're concerned about him writing that your daughter is "hot" on the playground equipment. Let the school handle things unless it goes to the next level (writing this again - or something more vulgar, following your daughter around constantly, saying or writing anything threatening about/towards her), and then present your new case to the principle and ask for what their plan of action is in writing. If it gets bad you might need to move her, but hopefully the school will deal with the situation. Whatever happens. Be sure your daughter and/or you do not get involved with trying to deal with him or his mom. This will just inflame the situation. Tell her to be courteous to him, but try to avoid him as much as possible.
Lastly. I was good friends with a girl who falsely accused a guy friend of stalking her in high school. To me it was a total joke, but unfortunately the school took it very seriously and he was treated as guilty. I truly believe he was just a normal guy who was irritated with my friend (for leading him on and then ditching him) and reacting to that situation. She had no evidence that he was saying or writing things about her, just that he seemed to show up in the hallway whenever she was around... I think she just needed attention, but anyway, I felt bad for him all around. He was kind of clueless socially, but she had instigated a romantic episode that gave him the impression that she liked him. It was just mean, and then to start accusing him of stalking her. So my point in all of this is to keep it realistic and don't make it a HUGE deal. Yet we know it can become serious so definitely report the incident and see how things go.
Best wishes!
If he's not calling you anymore, it sounds like eventually, he did get the hint. I don't think you need to tell the boy's mom you aren't doing boy-girl playdates anymore unless they actually ask to have another playdate. If she does ask, I think that's a good way to respond. About the playground incident, please contact the school principal. If there is an area within the play equipment not accessible to adults that kids have been writing inappropriately on, they need to address that issue at school, before it gets worse. I wouldn't mention his name as the one you suspect to the principal, because it's all hearsay. And at this point, you just don't want to stir up any more drama with this boy and his family. I think you and your daughter are both smart enough just to avoid them. You don't have to be friends, but don't make enemies either. If she avoids him, and is just cordial at school when necessary, he will eventually move on.
