Kindergarten Troublemakers - What to Do If Anything?

In addition to what everyone said below:
Things like this happens in public AND private schools.
And, it happens, in ALL grade levels. Not only in Kindergarten.
So, keep that in mind.

Kids who are acting out may not have enough positive reinforcement at home. They may have a 501 plan too.

I suggest the teacher do rewards for everyone at the end of the day if they had a good day. The kid who's on a behavior plan isn't the only one who needs a "good job today".

I would explain to her that some children have a harder time learning to behave than others. That some of the things she's already learned, they are still learning. It's important to be patient and kind to everyone, even if things don't always seem fair.

It seems that you have a little bit of a busybody on your hands, exacerbated by mommy showing *such* an interest in the behavior of other children in the classroom. If it were my kiddo, I would gently encourage her to mind her own behavior and continue doing her best. It's not polite to gossip about the poor behavior of other people. The teacher is handling it, and she needs to respect the way the teacher chooses to run her classroom.

If it truly is worrisome to you, I would contact the teacher instead of continuing to get information from your daughter. Ask the adult what is going on and you might find that it makes more sense than the story the 6 year old gave you.

ETA: Why are you so shocked that many say to teach her that life isn't fair? Life is not "equitable" because all people are not equal in merit and ability. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's unrealistic to teach otherwise.

I'm the parent of a child like the "troublemakers" you describe. He has ADHD, ODD, OCD, anxiety and several other conditions. He needed rewards to keep on track in kindergarten. I am guessing that at least some of the "troublemaker" kids in her class are suffering from medical conditions like ours. After all, no kid likes to be in trouble constantly, particularly when they're that young. If they could stop, they would.

I totally get your situation. We also have a neurotypical daughter and have to explain to her why standards are different for her brother. It's not easy. We've told her it isn't always going to seem fair, but things for her brother are tough because his brain isn't working properly.

I would tell your daughter that the kids getting in trouble in class may have medical reasons for their behaviors -- things she can't see that make it very hard for them to behave like everyone else. The rewards for them are to help them try harder to fit in with everyone else. Let her know it takes a lot more work for these kids to behave than it does for her. Their disabilities are on the inside, so they may not use wheelchairs, for example, but they need special help.

Use this as a teaching moment about disabilities. While some of these kids may not have one, a lot can still be learned from all of this. Teaching empathy will go a long way and may help her feel better about the situation.

ETA: I hate the team approach to punishment, BTW. Not fair for all to be punished for the actions of a few. Unfortunately, she's getting an early lesson in the realities of teamwork, before she reaches the workplace.

By the way, my son has spent plenty of time in the principal's office. He faces consequences for his behavior. He was kicked out of preschool and learned early on many adults didn't like him (which we had to work hard to counteract). He knows his disabilities are no excuse for bad behavior. However, schools know now -- unlike in previous generations -- that telling kids they're bad over and over again accomplishes nothing. Rewards can go a long way. There were always kids with disabilities ... I mostly remember them labeled as "bad" kids growing up. I know a whole lot better now that "bad" classmates in the 70s and 80s likely faced huge challenges in life and weren't bad kids at all.

I think this is a great example to your daughter that life is NOT fair and that the squeaky wheels (troublemakers) get the grease (attention).

As much as it sucks, I don't see anything you could do or say to "fix" this situation, other than chalk it up to a learning experience.

i'm tired so I don't know if this will make sense.

but there is a "fairness" activity that you could goggle to maybe explain this special treatment to your dd.

not saying your dd's teacher should do this but just that it might help y ou both understand.

this came from the blog http://imbloghoppin.blogspot.com/2011/08/power-of-bandaid...

I gathered the kids on the carpet (don't all the best lessons happen there?). Then I told them to think about a time they were hurt. Of course they all wanted to tell me every little detail of every injury they've ever endured in their seven little years. This was actually causing my head to hurt, but we pressed on. After I let a few share, I asked them all to close their eyes and imagine that something was hurting them right now. They had serious concentration faces on during this part.

Then I had them come up a few at a time, making sure the rest could hear and see the action. When each student approached I asked them where they were hurt. No matter what they said to me, I put a bandaid on the back of their hand. I had a few kids mumbling and whispering and one little girl was just not havin' it. She kept asking her friends, "Why does she keep putting it on the same spot?" and "That's not where she said it hurt!". She was so bothered by what I was doing, but it was perfect to make my point, so I let her go on.

I put 16 bandaids on 16 hands and when my 17th student came up for his, I just told him I was sorry, but I didn't have any for him. He looked a little bummed, but went back to the carpet bandaid-less. I asked the kids if the bandaid made anyone feel better or if I put it on the right spot. Of course no hands raised. Then I asked them if a bandaid would even help if you had a sprained ankle or headache - of course they all said no. So then I launched into a kid friendly discussion of differentiation. I told them that not everyone in our class has the same needs, so not everyone will get to do the same things all the time. We talked about times when I might work with a small group, it's just because they needed a bandaid at that particular moment, but maybe they didn't. I assured them that at some time in the year, everyone would need a bandaid for something. We talked about kids who leave the room for special services and how they need a particular bandaid that another teacher gives them. I finally hit the point home when I said, if one student needs a little extra math practice, does that mean we ALL need extra practice? Of course, they said noooo (in only the way a group of 7 year olds can drag out a one word response...)

I also added in how our last student didn't get a bandaid at all! When I asked him how he felt, he said he felt left out and confused. I told the group that never getting a bandaid was even worse and that's why when I'm with a student or small group they can't interrupt because it's the same as taking away their bandaid.

I have to say, it was a goose bump inducing lesson. The visual of the bandaid and the real life, kid level examples really made an impact on them.

----------- I thought it was a neat activity.

What to do with those nasty little "troublemakers"? Nothing, imo.

Maybe I'm just in a crabby mood today, but people overprotecting their precious little snowflakes is really beginning to bother me.

Yes, stay out of it. The world is not always going to be perfect for your daughter, and she can start learning that lesson now. Don't micromanage your daughter's teacher.

Plus, these "troublemakers" are only in kindergarten, for crying out loud.

I think I'm crabby, I need to get off here.

p.s. -- On a more helpful, less combative note: Kids like your daughter make great classroom helpers. Ask the teacher if she can become a classroom helper and she can earn her "rewards" that way. The teacher will praise her for her assistance and if your daughter is a good helper the teacher will actually really appreciate the help.

What hits me first is that your daughter is already 6. There are going to be vast differences in skills levels between 5 and 6 year olds. Some 5 year olds are more like 7 year olds, others more like 3 year olds. Your daughter should be in 1st grade, if you ask me, so of course she listens better and is upset by the disruptive kids.

All kids are different and as such should be treated that way.

I do not believe in reward charts or the like. I homeschool to avoid those things.

My son is very much like your daughter as far as following rules and getting exasperated with non-listeners. He had a very difficult class last year, and I know that rewards were unfairly applied. He also had to miss out on recess a few times because of the bad behavior of a small handful. That wasn't my favorite way for the teacher to manage the classroom, but I never complained to her about that.

I don't really go for the whole "life isn't fair" lesson. I just told my son that he had to understand that some kids have a harder time at school than he does. We discussed the kids who seemed to be the biggest behavior problems. Many of them had home lives that he wouldn't want. It taught him some empathy. It was also an opportunity to learn how to get along with all kinds of people. Because he can be a little inflexible at times, this was a way for him to practice his patience. When the class as a whole is punished for the bad choices of a few, it's a way to learn that, on some level, we are all in this together. We look out for each other, our actions have consequences.

Also, we never had an issue with him learning that he had to misbehave to get rewarded. He knew he had to behave regardless of rewards, because that is what we expect of him. His teacher last year admitted to me that she sometimes forgot to move his clip up to the highest level on some days, because she just knew that he would be there anyway.

My advice is to continue to support your daughter's teacher in any way you can. If it is possible, volunteer in the classroom, find a way to ease the load on her. And just be patient. A lot of kids just sort of settled down after the winter break. It was frustrating that it took so long, but be grateful that your daughter is doing so well.

Good luck.

When I read your question, my first reaction was to the group punishment, which I do not think is an effective idea. I realize the teacher is trying to have the children grow as a team, but I think there are better methods. I also do not think it's a good discipline technique in general to keep children from recess, even those who have difficulty behaving, because it is at recess that they expend some of their extra energy. So in terms of that, I think that if it happens often, that you may wish to discuss it with the teacher and share your concerns.

But the other part of your concern ended up concerning me. It seems there are children in the class who may seem to be disruptive, but who probably do not yet have the ability to regulate their behaviors. It is not a matter of tolerating or not tolerating the behavior, but rather of understanding what motivates them and teaching them step-by-step how to learn school expectations. If a child has poor vision, we expect them to have glasses. If a child needs more time to complete an assignment, we provide more time. If a child needs to be taught how to behave, then teachers teach that. To your daughter, the teacher's approval is motivational. To another child, a teacher's attention might be meaningless, for a variety of reasons. This teacher is trying to make the classroom run well for all the children. When this happens everyone wins. That's what's fair. We all have needs at one time or another. The teacher tries to meet these needs. Whether I agree with the little trinkets as rewards or not, it is not hurting a child who does not receive them. I hope you will reread your So what happened. response and reconsider your description of the children who are misbehaving as troublemakers. They are dear children who are having trouble. All my best to you and your daughter and my wishes for a good year.

It is Kindergarten. Some kids adjust easily some it is a bit harder. It is not like sixth graders being disruptive. Those kids get their butts hauled out of the room. Kindergarten is a learning experience. Unfortunately, life is not fair. Let the teacher handle things. Everyone will settle down. There may be a child that is truly a troublemaker after some time has passed. I am sure it will be addressed then.

I have a very similar situation going on at my son's school. Please keep in mind that he attends a private Kindergarten, so the fact that I pay for his education is definitely a factor in my decision to makes some waves. I'm all for equal education for everyone, but not when I'm paying for a private school.

Anyway, we have a disruptive boy in my son's class. Nearly everyday I hear about something the boy did or how he was mean to so-and-so or how he didn't get to participate. I mentioned to his teacher that I was going to send her an email because the boy and my son had hit heads. She ended up calling me that night to discuss that situation. Also, at least two other parents had mentioned the same issues with the boy so I was sort of deemed the class advocate.

I made sure to ask how my son was acting and not initiating any bad behavior. She confirmed that he was not. She also very much encouraged me to report my concerns to the administrators. She could only provide information about my son and not the other boy.

I talked to the administrators and followed up with an email recapping our conversation so that everything was well-documented. They explained that he was very smart but was having behavioral issues. Apparently he has never been in school before. They are documenting his behavioral problems, but don't seem to have enough "evidence" to change the situation.

Most importantly, I reported the behavioral problems because the teacher explained that should there be any future incidents, my complaint has already been documented. Doesn't hurt, only keeping my son's interests on the front burner.

Talk to the teacher, the administrators and send emails for documentation. Good luck!!!

First of all, you are hearing your daughter's side of the story. Children tend to exaggerate. Please talk to the teacher so you and your daughter can better understand the system in place.

As a regular substitute and very involved with elementary school children we do use reward charts or incentives a lot. Most classes have a reward chart or bowl of marbles, etc which they try to earn popcorn parties, a class movie, etc.

Now, for children who are assisted with special ed or have some sort of issue such as ADD, OCD, ADHD, etc.... they have a daily sheet where notes are kept on what they do, how they behave, etc and that is copied and sent home to parents daily with the original kept in the child's file.

These children do have a "chart" (piece of paper) that travels to each activity in order to have all teachers (homeroom, art, music, etc) input on behavior of the day. The child strives to get all stars or smiley faces for the day. At the end of the week, they can go to a treasure box (IN A SEPARATE AREA) IF they have the allotted amount of stars which was a goal for the week.

These children eventually want each teacher to sign the form and if they don't get a smiley face, sometimes it can result in a major meltdown. However, it is a way to motivate them to stay on task behavior wise. When they are not participating in class, disrupting class, etc, they are taken separately and we ask... "Is this the behavior you have to get a star for this part of the class?"

I can see where some children might misconstrue this type of activity. The behavior of 1 child does not take away the class benefit/reward.

There are a lot of children with mild to severe disabilities who need the extra attention from a teacher, teacher's aide or special ed. The "troublemakers" you are talking about, could very well have legit issues and the school along with their parents are doing the best they can to help these children. They don't try to be troublemakers.

We try to teach the students who are doing well and not usually a troublemaker to be compassionate and to help their friends who are having a bit of an issue if it is control of something, understanding something, etc. I end up seeing a lot of young children seeing out the children who do need a little extra TLC to cope trying to help them and be their friend.

As others noted: The kid who seems to get a special reward may indeed be a kid for whom this "reward" is actually part of his official, school-approved educational plan. You have no way to know if this is a kid with diagnosed issues that require different treatment. And a teacher won't necessarily tell you that, either; that's not public information. I think the very most you can do is, at the next scheduled conference, tell the teacher nicely, "Daughter has noticed that a child (or several children) in the classroom seems to have a separate behavior chart and gets rewards that are separate from other kids. It bothers Daughter, who is just now learning the idea that not everyone gets the same treatment. You know how kids think everything has to be 'fair' and the same. How do you suggest I help her understand when she sees this and comes home talking and worrying about it? It looms pretty large for her." You might get some very good ideas from the teacher if you can be open to her perspective.

The gist of the problem here -- the problem for you as well as for your child -- is that life is not fair, and teachers do not and cannot treat every child the same, and, hardest of all, you just will not always know why certain things are going on in the classroom. We all want to know the "why" behind things but in this case, we often can't.

She is a classic "good girl" who wants to please adults and who feels that things should be equitable. I know; I have a daughter who is just like that, and in K, she too reported on anything that seemed unfair. That includes "The teacher kept us all in from recess because TWO kids were acting up, and that is not fair!" Guess what? You'll hear this in first and second and maybe third too. Is it fair? Nope. It is intentionally unfair. It shows the kids who do behave that the kids who don't affect everyone's day. And it's the start of kids learning that the whole group suffers if a few act out. Eventually those who don't act out will start telling those who do, "You'd better not do that." Peer pressure, frankly. And for good reason.

Also, your daughter is probably picking up on your own strong indignation about all this, even if you feel sure you've never said anything in front of her. She knows you're always on her side and kids definitely should feel that way about mom and dad, but take care that if you say supportively, "Yes, that's not fair," you balance it with, "It's not fair, but there sometimes is a reason things don't seem fair. Johnny and Sally might have a different arrangement with the teacher because they have a harder time learning to behave."

As for her being upset and angry over kids who disrupt class, well, there will always be kids who disrupt class. In K it's hard for the "pleaser" kids like yours and mine, because they want to tell everyone, "School is great, so stop annoying everyone and we can all be happy!" But that would only make the disruptive kids worse, because it would be attention focused on them by her. It's hard to teach this and it takes years, but she needs to learn the art of ignoring others who are out for attention. Easier said than done, and very hard for young children. But you can start with talking to her -- briefly -- about attention, and how there are kids who actually like and want attention that she, herself, would consider "bad" (like a teacher or other kids fussing at them, or losing recess, etc.). It will take a long time for this to sink in but she will get it.

Don't over-talk it, though. Listen when she brings you these things but don't commiserate to the point that you're eliciting more and more details to find out who these disruptive kids are and every thing they did or said; listen but then move on to other aspects of her day.

What you describe is very, very normal transition -- not just for the kids who are disruptive and reacting to K that way, but for your own good kid who expects the world to be fair and nice and smooth but is finding it just is not.

Not only are you hearing this from a 6 yr old, who often have a very strong sense of "fair", but you don't know the other kid's story.

I know you only have to explain it to your 6 yr old but try to be as real as you can. Life is not fair. Tell her there are circumstances with this child that both of you don't understand and may never know. There could be issues, physically or with her circumstances that made her delayed on understanding how to behave, she may be catching up with the maturity level of the other kids, whatever.

What's important is that her teacher and care givers have decided to try this way to help her make better choices. Your child loves her teacher and she (her teacher)has not given any reason not to trust that what she does and may give better classroom results this way. Teacher is in authority. You dont have to agree, you just have to obey.

It would be best if you present this in a positive way. It's a way of showing empathy.
Yes, you understand her feelings on fairness.
You expect her to obey her teacher.
If a rowdy kid hurts her she can tell them not to.
She can move away from them.
She can tell the teacher.

My son was like your daughter - a stickler for fairness and the rules. And honestly - how the teacher handled the other kids was absolutely NONE of his business. Which is exactly what I explained to him.

Now, I do see an issue with rewards charts and rewards in general - they encourage behavior simply to obtain the reward - NOT because good behavior and learning have value in their own right. So I would try to teach your child that we do NOT do things because they have a reward attached. We do them because they are the safe way to behave/we all learn better when we can hear each other/whatever the real reason we want that behavior.

I suspect the teacher has little choice about recess. Unless she has an aide to work with the kids who need a little extra attention, she must take them all out for recess. And she probably needs them all to be able to safely line up and listen in order to do this. Getting the group together is probably the best way to do this. Certainly MUCH better than singling out and shaming a 5 year old for normal rambunctious 5 year old behavior. Seriously - kindergartners should NOT be punished in school The goal of K is to start kids on a path of lifelong love of learning.

Rather than looking at the whole situation as unfair to your daughter, I would look at it as the teacher is providing what each child needs to optimize their learning. No different than if, say, next year your daughter is slower in reading than her classmates and needs a little extra attention. Should the other kids think - wow, she is bad at reading so she gets extra rewards (teacher time) - how unfair - I should pretend to be bad in reading too? I don't really think so.

I'm glad you realize that you're hearing most of this from your daughter, a child, and therefore her opinions may be (and probably are) skewed.
But it doesn't hurt to check in with the teacher. Tell her your concerns and give her a chance to explain and clarify.
As far as explaining the seemingly "special treatment" given to some kids, just tell your daughter that some kids still have a lot of growing and learning to do, and the teacher is trying to encourage that. She is old enough to understand that things in life are not always even and fair. And be sure to praise her for her maturity and smart choices!

Kindergarten is a time when they're learning body basics and to worry about yourself and not everyone else and the concept of you get what you get and you don't throw a fit. I'm sure the teacher can't excuse half the class of 5 yo's to walk down the halls alone and therefore has to hold the whole class. This is the beginning of peer pressure and bonding with your classmates against your teacher.

It's not fair and elementary school is often when children start to learn that. My SS is one who was bribed with toys, neither of my kids were. He needed that daily reward. Maybe your daughter can work on helping keep the disruptive kids focused.

my son.. -- who is not an angel by any means.. -- came home just like your daughter reporting that his kindergarten class did not get to do much fun things cause the kids were bad. I listened buy did not intervene.. as the teacher was handling things as best she could. I talked to the teacher.. and she said it was the worst class she had ever had.. many many kids had behavior problems.. I still remember from my days in elementary school.. waiting to go to recess or a special class.. and we were waiting casue another student was not putting their things away.. or not in line. or a kid was talking.. this is normal classroom stuff.. I would nto get involved.

My sister is a teacher. One year she had a student with ADHD whose parents didn't believe in medication so it was untreated. It was impossible for him to behave the same as the other students. She had many students question why rules were different for him and was obviously unable to explain that he had a medical condition.she struggled with making them understand that he needed special rules. I'm sure many of those kids went home and complained to their parents to.

Additionally, kindergarten is a very tough year to teach. Kids are coming in with all different backgrounds and education levels. Some kids may have never been in a classroom before and have no idea how to behave. Many teachers use a reward system at this age because a small prize can be very motivational for some kids.

I also think the recess thing is pretty typical. Teachers often don't have the resources to split the class up and if enough of the class is misbehaving then the whole class gets punished. Sounds like it just a few minutes of recess, not the whole time.

If it were me, I would use it as a learning experience for your daughter. Make sure she knows how proud you are of her being so well behaved in school and try to make her understand that the teacher is trying to help the other kids learn how to behave better.

The teacher is attempting to bribe/buy good behavior from the trouble makers and your daughter has noticed it.
Bribery is not a good move on the teacher's part - I doubt it's going to work.
In the mean time she risks other kids coming to the logical conclusion that if they want special treats them THEY can/should act up too.
Things have changed all over the place since I went to school but it use to be that chronic misbehave-er was sent to the principals office so the rest of the class was not disrupted or doing the time for the one or two people doing the crime so to speak.
I'd speak with the teacher.
Not accusingly but just to ask 'Susie told me that she didn't get recess today. Is that true? What was the problem? If Susie didn't do anything wrong then why didn't she get to go to recess? She's starting to think that maybe acting up will earn her some sort of reward?".
If this doesn't start settling down quite a bit (they've had 2 months to work on it already) then maybe your daughter could move to a less disruptive class.
Of course if %99 of the class asks the same thing then you'd THINK the conclusion would be that MAYBE the trouble maker(s) might need to be in a class with better supervision but I don't know what the other parents opinions might be.
Inclusion isn't always what it's cracked up to be.
Additional:
When a class becomes constantly about so and so's behavior, it's a disservice to the rest of the kids.
I've seen it happen a few times and it's ridiculous how one or two kids can just take over and command all the attention of the teacher.
Especially when it's private school you've got to wonder exactly what you are paying for.
Well the world certainly isn't fair.
Taking the disruptive kids out of class is just as not fair as keeping them in.

I really think that I would 1) talk to the teacher about the toy giveaway. That really seems way too unfair to the rest of the kids. I'm not one to think that life is fair but I do agree that she's sending the wrong message to the other kids; and 2) talk to your DD about the fact that life isn't fair and we just have to keep our eye on what WE want in our lives and work toward that.

What the teacher is doing is setting up a system where the good children might be able to influence the less than good children into behaving. Punish one punish all is a good system because A.) it's not singling anyone out and B.) when the children who are behaving have had enough, then there's nothing quite like playground justice. The children who aren't behaving as they should will end up with social repercussions on top of the discipline the teacher is giving.

Now... as to a child that misbehaves and is allowed to have a reward on a good day... I don't see that as your business to be flabbergasted over. You don't know if that child has special needs with an IEP (Individual Education Plan) and the child needs particular motivations. The reward may be for something else. You are, after all, hearing about this from your daughter, a kindergartner and onlooker to someone else's situation as you yourself mentioned.

I would let your daughter vent, then frown and nod. I would not get involved at this point, but if it seems like it's daily that your daughter is missing out on recess then speak up. The teachers aren't supposed to take recess away. It's a required activity especially if there isn't phys ed/gym. I might request that the teacher use a different discipline method in that instance. I did speak up over that once with a teacher who took away recess for a week when my eldest was in elementary school, I think first grade. The teacher was breaking the law by disallowing recess where we are.

I fully understand why the teacher has to hold the entire class back from recess if a few are misbehaving, because she has to walk all the kids out and she can not do that while keeping only a few behind, but I would have concerns and the reward system since it could demoralize the good kids. I would consider discussing your concerns with the teacher.

IF the kids getting special rewards are special needs kids, then that is different of course and you need to explain to your child that special needs kids have unique challenges so they get rewarded differently.

A teacher has the right to give away awards that she purchases as she pleases. You can tell the teacher that you want to reward your daughter for good days.

You can create a weekly behavior sheet for your daughter that the teacher completes on Fridays. You can award her when teacher indicates a superb week.