C.M.
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Health insurance hands down.
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Here is a survey based on a real life scenario. It takes the usual political discussion out of the health care issue, and breaks it down. I am curious which choice you guys would make.
This is sort of personal (and long), but hey, it's cyber world-I never talk about this stuff to real people I know. My husband and I are in our 40's, have always worked and we have never had health insurance. He is a musician and his band of 20 years does not offer it, and I have had it sporadically working for certain companies in the past, but most did not offer it. I am now a SAHM homeschooling my oldest. We are a frugal, health conscious, responsible family, who live in a low cost area so we can give the kids the simple things and survive on our one, technically "freelance" income which fluctuates between husband's tour years and non tour years. We pay all of our medical bills out of pocket, always have, including three out of pocket deliveries (paid off over 5 years). We just paid off a few new medical bills for $2000 for stitches, hand foot and mouth disease in all kids, and my yearly gyno exam and lab tests. We're usually square with the hospital, or have a balance of a few hundred $s we pay in payments when necessary.
Due to recent IRS debacle concerning a corrupt accountant who massacred my husband's band taxes for some past years, we had to drastically cut ALL expenses over the past 4 years and finally file chapter 7. This was true for all band members, and not my husband's fault. The good news is, we're now debt free and have an awesome basic budget. During the 4 year fight with IRS, we were making monthly Offer In Compromise Payments to the IRS, as well as racking up credit card bills on tax attorneys, which have now been discharged, and we stopped making payments several months ago when we filed. This has cleared up some cash.
We have an extremely cheap mortgage, we could never rent anywhere cheaper, we were very lucky to keep the house. We have no cable or satellite, we pay $9 for instant streaming of Netflix. We are careful with utilities. We have the cheapest package for internet and phones, and cut to only one cell phone, which we share. We share a used car which is paid off. We have no credit cards and no debt. And no savings(yet but we have started putting some aside monthly). The kids are now 5, 4 and 2. I do not use any daycare and almost never call sitters. No cleaning help. No frills. The kids are always with me. Budgeting is my middle name and there are no materialistic people or pursuits where we live so the pressure is off to keep up with Jones's-not that we would. We literally waste NO money shopping for excess clothes etc. We shop wisely for groceries, utilize gas points, etc. A big day out is to the park and the library. Again, we like it this way and have an awesome life.
ANYWAY, when we stopped paying Offer In Compromise Payments and credit card payments, we still couldn't' afford daycare, but to socialize the kids, I began "splurging" on some lessons. My oldest (5) is in piano and violin, has been playing the piano for over a year, loves them both. My son(4) started Tae Kwon Do which he loves. My husband travels constantly, and Tae Kwon Do is a chance for him to be with other boys, and good male role models, the teachers are great. We also have a French tutor (very reasonable friend who teaches all three kids at once) and are doing really well with French, which I feel is important to learn a second language while young. My two year old tags along to all classes and benefits as well. The total cost of all these classes is $300 per month. AKA, our new and huge luxury budget. But I do take my kids' early education and development very seriously, so to me these skills border on necessity, and we have no other social or educational costs for any of the three kids.
Even if we cut all these classes, we would not be able to buy family medical insurance. BUT, we could get a discounted insurance program for the kids only.
So. After we file taxes, we're having a pow wow to decide whether to keep the classes, OR get the discounted medical insurance for the kids. If we do not buy the insurance, we will cut SOME classes when necessary, and continue to pay out of pocket for medical, so technically, the insurance is only for big calamities, and my husband and I will still not be insured. Also keep in mind, with the fluctuating nature of our income, we run the risk of defaulting and losing this insurance in lean times, whereas the classes we can just cut down and cancel when need be.
SO. In this exact budget scenario, which one would you do? Insure the kids, or let them keep some classes and continue paying out of pocket for medical? I'm counting your votes to bring to the pow wow. It would break my heart to take the kids out of beneficial activities and away from friends. But having insurance is also important, I'm just used to not having it. I consider my $35/month gym membership and healthy groceries to be my health insurance. Now that deliveries are out of the way, barring catastrophe, our medical bills are manageable. Some months we have no medical bills. The kids are healthy and have no special needs or prescriptions-but I am aware a car accident or sudden illness can strike at any time. Which would you pick? Lessons, or medical insurance for kids? Talk some sense into me, ladies.
****I should add, between cancellations for sickness on our parts and teachers parts, classes have actually run about half that during winter...it would only be $300/month with perfect attendance for every class every week, which really never happens..***
**We don't qualify for any state or county stuff.**
Yup, it sounds like we need to cut and do the insurance. I do plan to go back to work in the next year or two, but so far research in our area (my old job was in NYC and didn't offer insurance anyway) doesn't point to anything that would cover the cost of daycare, much less added classes or increased income. Right now I would need full time daycare with a job that has insurance since husband travels all the time, so I was hoping to wait until at least two kids can go to school (two more years). Chip has been unattainable because band returns have reflected higher earnings than monies received due to tax fight and band lawsuits, so Chip's calculation was unaffordable, but may be OK for coming year now that suits are settled. Maybe we can strike a balance. Thanks, everyone. I especially liked the answer to just "pony up" the $1300/mo for family insurance. Why didn't I think of that?
Health insurance hands down.
I'm confused because you're in PA and it sounds like your kids would be eligible for CHIP because EVERY child is eligible.
Personally I think you're gambling everything by not havng health insurance so health insurance trumps everything for me. At the very least get your children enrolled in CHIP even if it means dropping your gym membership. You sound very frugal but to me the gy membership is a luxury. There is plenty of exercise you can get outside of the gym.
A.,
I know I'm jumping in late here--but I would insure my kids.
I have a friend, recently diagnosed with leukemia. She's always carried the health insurance for her family. Two teen sons and a self employed husband. Financial outcome of this does NOT look good. She is now moving out of STD to LTD and they do not "have to" hold her job. Cobra will be through the rood on a 50% reduction in salary....She can apply for SSI...but her kids, husband, etc. It's a MESS - O. I hope never to find myself in the middle.
She thought exercising and eating healthy was her insurance as well. Not so! Illnesses of catastrophic scale often come out of left field...and they don't discriminate! Well visits, stitches, etc--yes manageable out of pocket....but how many months of tens of thousands of dollars of chemo, hospital stays, etc., would it take for financial "game-over" in your house? Scary stuff. It also really scares me that you & your husband have NO coverage at all. Good luck, A. J.!
I would get the health insurance - ABSOLUTELY no question.
I would never leave my son with out medical insurance, even if I had to have his grandmother adopt him legally so he could be on her plan, period end of story health insurance. At least see what programs your state/county offer for medical insurance for the children before you make a choice to keep them unisured.
Would you be able to qualify for CHIP? It may be difficult to figure that out, considering his sporadic income, and what you probably have in savings from his musical tours.
http://www.chipcoverspakids.com/
It sounds like you have done an amazing job so far... keep it up!
As far as the lessons.... is there any way you could "barter" for some of those lessons, to help reduce the costs? I agree... I wouldn't want to drop those activities for the kids, either.
I think you are doing a great job in your finances, I also understand where you come from.
A few years back when my husband lost his job, we lost insurance and couldn't afford to pay them on our own.
It wasn't even a matter of if we wanted or not.
We just had to be very careful and hope that any of us would get sick, which lucky we didn't, besides a cold.
When things stared to get better we hold and decide to don't get insurance and pay in cash just like you.
I notice some doctors don't like when you pay in cash, but that is another story.
To be honest it work well for us, but we were also lucky we didn't had any emergency. Well, lucky AND we took care of ourselves.
Now we are in the position to get them, and we have being procrastinating about it.
They are very expensive, we really don't need them, but is always the what IF, sigh.
And it kind of sucks, because like you, in the past 3 years the reason we have need to go the doctor have cost us no more the $400.
But again, that damn IF, just because the IF, and because I am also aware that things happen, and that just one of those big bills can put you down on red numbers, I also would suggest (I am suggesting to my self as well) to go for the insurance.
Perhaps your husband on those months were he is not with the band can teach your kids a instrument him self, or if you find time (because I figure you are busy already) you could teach other kids to paint.
That way, your kids still learn some kind of art, they get to socialize, and you get some money for another class.
OR, you can look for a mom that perhaps can teach your kids another language in exchange of you teaching hers to paint?
health insurance, hands down
I would definitely get the kids on the CHIP program. It's,health insurance in PA but it is for kids only. It does not matter how much your income is because it uses a sliding scale. Then maybe you can afford both the insurance and classes.
I like what Malia says. But the fact that you and your husband don't have medical insurance worries me more! To me, that is more important than the kids having it. One hospitalization can wipe you out, and not going to the hospital because you "can't afford it" can end up with your kids missing a parent.
By the way, I love your can-do attitude, A.! And your optimist point of view!
Dawn
I don't think lessons vs. health insurance are the only two answers. I would get a job so that my kids could have both health insurance and lessons.
Health insurance for all of you if possible, or at the very least for the kids. You guys sound very healthy and health-conscious, but you just never, never, never, never know what could happen and bills could run into the hundreds of thousands in real emergencies.
For four years i paid into my group plan... paid my deductable , grumbling tthe whole time about what else i could do with that money
We decided to have our second baby... started building out medical account to cover the deductable...5 yr old need stiches... there went half the savings. 1 month before i was due... we took my son for an ENT eval... he need his THIRD set of tubes, and andoids out. That afternoon he and daddy went sledding... and he broke his femur. I had our baby a week later... she spend extra night in hospital due to jaundice. A few months later my husbanded need surgery for a hernia
it wold have been easily over 100,000... no budget could have helped us without insurance.....
you just never know when it could all go wrong.....
I don't understand how you cannot qualify for any medicaid or medicaid type programs for just your children? I would seriously look into government aid for health insurance for only your 3 children. You'd be having to be making over $30K annually with 3 dependents (maybe even more) to not qualify for children's health insurance thru the state.
I'd try that again FIRST before doing anything else.
Maybe you could get "Catastrophic Insurance"?
I couldn't sleep at night if I knew my family didn't have health insurance. We went through 2 times in 2 years where my husband was out of work and my part-time job didn't provide insurance, but I'd skip food before health insurance. It's just too big of a risk. A friend of mine's step-sister was recently diagnosed with cancer...they did a double hip transplant so she could do the chemo and then she died within a month of diagnosis. NO ONE wants to think that could happen to them, and if it did, the loss of life would be enough tragedy without the life-long debt that would occur.
No question about it. Get the insurance. Check into CHIP for your kids.
I read your story and I think your doing an awesome job with the finances--I would definitely insure the kiddos for peace of mind and cut down on the classes--put some money aside each month to build a savings account for those lean times that everyone goes through. GL
M
Are you sure the kids don't qualify for Medicaid? You two won't qualify, you have to really be living in abject poverty or be dying for an adult to qualify, but the kids should. Check out the income eligibility requirements for PA, they are pretty generous now since they defunded the CHIP program. I know the limit for our family size (6) is almost twice as much as our actual income.
But, to answer your question, I would barter for lessons and pay for the insurance.
I would check again and re-apply for chip or medicaid for the kids. Both my kids are insured thru the state. It can change depending on who reviews your file. It can from week to week. So re-apply every month or after every denial if you have to. Once they get it, it is easier to stay on it. It is always hard to get on it, but not so hard for kids now. Make sure you are applying for your kids only if your salary is too high for you and hubby to qualify as they will often approve for kids without insurance even if income is higher because i is not offered thru employer. Keep trying to get it for cheaper so your kids can have the other benefits.
I've always had health insurance(employer provided), so perhaps I'm a little flippant about it. But, my family has never even come close to spending the price of the insurance. And we (and I imagine you) still have to pay copays. And cheap insurance usually makes you pay out a certain amount before they start to cover you. The new healthcare laws which go into action soon, if not already, state that you can not be denied health insurance if you have a preexisting condition. So, if someone got diagnosed with something (like cancer) you would be able to get insurance after the diagnosis to cover all the big expenses.
So, in your situation....I would keep the kids in the classes. Any month when you spend less than the $300, put the rest into a savings account for future medical expenses, in case you need it.
Good luck with your decision.
you have asked a tough question with alot of good points....i vote.....for.....the classes....if you ca manage without insurance and comfortable without it why not spend the extra on the kids. as long as your children are healthy.
My brother is insured only for cases of emergencies, because he cannot afford full health insurance on his (full-time) salary. I don't know what that costs, but I do know it is cheaper, so you might consider it. I'm sorry you're in such a difficult situation.
Answer (C) - Somebody needs to pony up for medical insurance for the entire family AND provide activities for your children. You guys are in your 40's and the kids are young!! Health insurance to me it's about as optional as housing.
You all need health insurance. You need to start thinking about preventative care....as in colonoscopies/mammograms and more lab test as you get older. I do realize that you are very healthy, but preventative testing is very important as you get older, especially when you have three young children. I have two friends (one 35 with stage three and one 44 with stage four) colon cancer. Both lived very healthy lives....they just were very , very unlucky. I have several friends in their 40s and 50s who have had to fight breast cancer.
Your children also need health insurance.
AS for the lessons, if you prefer not to work outside of the home, whichi s understandable with three young kids, perhaps you could find a way to barter for the lessons. If your children end up showing real musical talent and interest, you might find some scholarships.
I guess I feel like choosing between lessons and health insurance is a bit of a false dichotomy. It is a bit apples and oranges.
Without a doubt, get a major medical plan. Would you go without insurance on your car or your house? Everyone needs catastrophic coverage, as well as a cushion that you set aside every month for those expenses that crop up. Too many people I know budget only the known expenses like utilities, food and gasoline without including the fluctuating expenses like car repairs, doctors' visits, and home repairs that only happen once every couple of years. Without setting aside money every month for a new roof, new brake lines or vaccinations, it's impossible to do anything but go into debt when those things crop up. I'm sorry if I'm preaching to the choir, but it seems so common among the people I know...
I also wanted to add my two cents (since that's what it's worth) to your statement about "socializing" your kids. Piano, violin, and French don't help your kids learn how to interact with other kids in critical ways. I do agree that language and music are important for children's development. However, too many home-schoolers kid themselves into thinking that lessons like these help them to get along with others. Kids don't learn the tough stuff by spending a couple of hours together once a week (or even every few days). My guys are just now letting their real personalities show in kindergarten, and they've been with the same classmates for over 100 days now...
In NJ there is NJ Family Care that even if you make up to 100,000 or something close, you can insure your children but pay a couple hundred dollars. Do you have that in PA? The catch is that you can not have health insurance for 3 months or something like that, so you would qualify. I think because you have a house, you really need to get some kind of health insurance. It is hard, I know...were were paying over 700 dollars a month for the three of us. I applaud your desire to get the kids a well rounded education but I bet you can find a H.S. Student in Honors or AP French who can tutor the kids for about 10-15 dollars an hour. Same with other subjects.
Homeschoolers have the right to enroll their children in extra-curricular and after school programs through the School District as long as you are paying the school taxes. Contact your local SD and find out what programs are offered for your kids' age groups.
Good luck!
