"Little Altercation" at My Son's School

Umm from what you wrote I am getting that YOUR son was the one to throw the shoe in the air and then threaten to throw it over the wall. THis is major teasing behavior that you are "laughing off" I hope you had a long discussion with your own son about teasing and how mean it is. This other child should not have chose to use his teeth to stop your son but he is a chlld and he used the most convenient method that he had. It is unfortunate that your son has a mark like that but I really cannot blame J as much as I blame your son for teasing a kid like that. What you should do next is to tell the school that the bite really is much worse than they realized and that they should emphasize to the children that biting is not permitted. Second, and most importantly, you should ask his teachers if this is the first incident that they have witnessed where your son has done this to another child. This is the kind of thing that you need to nip in the bud.

Bet your son wont tease that boy again!!
Sometimes "playground justice" is needed. I wouldn't fault the kid at all. He was being bullied by your son.

Two things you need to address.

1) The bite, obviously, because it was bad. 4-5 year olds are not totally in charge of their emotions and when they get super upset, they bite. It's a frustration thing, not "violent behavior" - he bit him, he didn't beat him up. Not an excuse, but a reason. A 4-5 year old isn't going to think "I better not bite too hard" when they are pushed to the limit, they just bite. Take a picture so they know how bad the bite was and let the daycare deal with it.

2) Your son's behavior. Yes, he got bitten - because he took the kid's shoe, kept it away from him, and said he was going to throw it over the fence. You need to NOT laugh it off, because your son was being mean and he needs to know that what HE did was not ok either.

Erika:

Your son was teasing and provoking "J". While "J's" reaction was not correct or acceptable, what did your son expect to happen?

I would want my son to apologize to "J" for HIS behavior. I would hope the other parents would already know and talk with their son. However, if you call the other family - you are right - it most likely won't end well. In their eyes? YOUR SON started it. Their son ended it.

maybe now your son will KNOW NOT provoke someone again. If another child loses his or her shoe, hopefully, your son will pick it up and HAND IT BACK TO THEM instead of teasing and then threatening to throw it over the wall.

The other parents? Well, they may state that your child was "bullying" their child and demand that your child get counseling for bullying. You recognize the provoking by your son, so how did you handle it? Did you tell him HOW he should have handled that situation?

Both kids are at fault. Your son should NOT have teased the other child. The other child should not have bitten him. Two wrongs, don't make a right. You need to have a serious talk with your son about how to handle things in the future, so this doesn't happen again.

Good luck!!

Suck it up. Your son got what he dished. Teachers are HUMAN! They are parents and they are us! Yes, they, like us, feel your darling son deserved it.

Of the two boys--mine would have been the one who, like yours, started it. He was not a bully--but very playful. Because of the reaction he got out of life (like the other boy's), he stopped being so playful and way too reserved (now adult).

I stand by my answer to you--but I have (had) the same type son as you.

Take pictures before the marks fade and print them out. Then have the teacher give the images to the parents of the biter. Let the teacher be the go-between. An images speaks a thousand words. Can't downplay a graphic.

Take a picture of it.
And have a conversation with your son about his behavior that contributed to it. I have never found any kind of teasing/taunting like what he did "innocent" or all in "fun". It is simply one person has power and the other doesn't and they are using it. That is pretty much the definition of bullying. Want to know how seriously schools take that? Let this go with your son, and you may well find out...

I'm not sure that I can say that the teacher downplayed it. It sounds to me more like YOU downplayed it at the time.

I'm not trying to lay blame, but it really sounds like you were the one laughing it off, not the teacher. She isn't going to stand there and tell you you need to sue somebody as you laugh it off... (that's an exaggeration by the way), but she is going to follow your lead if you are giving her an easy out. Which you did.

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No, what should have happened is that when the other child asked for his shoe back, your son gave it to him. Why should he have had to go tell a teacher?

You really do have to let the school handle it. I would have run him over to the doctor's to have it looked at, to be honest.

Please go in and show his arm to the school and talk about this. Tell them that your son's behavior wasn't stellar, but this other child just cannot go around biting when he gets mad. Tell them that you expect them to talk about this with the child AND the parents.

Dawn

yes, there was 'some provocation' by your son.
5 year olds are not far out of toddlerhood.
no one likes to find bite marks on their child, but your son clearly pushed J way past his ability to articulate.
why on earth do you assume the school did NOT speak with the other parents?
it doesn't sound to me as if the school downplayed it all. they told you everything. what they didn't do was omg dramatize it. dimes to doughnuts they did the same thing with the biter's parents.
what exactly is it that you want to have happen?
khairete
S.

Sorry, I think you're overreacting and minimizing your kid's part in this. The bite happened due to provocation, not just out of the blue, which makes a HUGE difference to me. I am also betting the bite isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. I wouldn't bother with a doctor's visit and I wouldn't press the issue, knowing that your kid instigated the problem. The bite mark will heal and maybe your child will hopefully not taunt & tease others again.

I would be mortified if DD acted the way your son did, and she would be getting punished.

This is what I miss about the good old days... why the need to take it any further? What exactly do you hope to accomplish? I know you have a fanstasy vision of what should've played out, but kids don't think the way adults do all the time. Personally, I would feel stupid making a big deal of an injury that happened as a result of my kid misbehaving and mistreating the other party. As far as contacting the other parents? Put yourself in their shoes. I think it would pretty crappy of you to say anything to them.

My grandma always say that there is no measure for payback. I am not saying that the biting was ok by any means, the other kid probably felt a little bullied when your son did what he did and retaliated without thought.

Talk to the school let them know your concerns and find out what actions they took regarding the incident. They do need to handle things that happen in school. They should talk to the class about what is ok and not ok to do and reiterate the whole treating each other with respect motto.

I think you have gotten good advice so far. I just wnated to say that my first thought was why didn't you look at the bite while you were still at the school? This way they would know how serious it is or know that YOU know how serious it is. I would always look at an injury while still at the school or daycare provider.

Take a pic of the bite on your son for your own records. When I was close to 5, I bit a girl on my street. Years later she moved away and when we were in our 20's we met up again at a party of a mutual friend. We started talking and she says to me, "remember the time that you bit me?" I said, "I bit you?" and she said yes, "I still have the bite marks on my shoulder to prove it". Sure enough she rolls up her sleave and there are my bite marks (faded but still discernable). I do remember vaguely biting her but we were so young. I never had any violent tendencies growing up, I think I was just very angry. I don't think her mother even said anything to my mother about it. However, I think the school is responsible when the children are in their care to ensure it never happens again and to notify both parents with the facts about what happened. I think I would speak to the principal and find out if the other parent was notified and find out what they plan to do in order for this not to occur again. Good luck!

People, yes the skin was broken but he was bitten while his skin was covered by two shirts,one of which is s sweat shirt. The other boys saliva did not touch his skin. No need for a doctor to look at it. I would put antibiotic cream on it to prevent infection from the bite's exposure to the world.

This is bite had to have been delivered with a great deal of force to make that much damage thru the shirts. I would expect a bruise to appear too.

I would expect that the teacher would be more serious with the other boys parents. I would talk with the teacher to be sure that she actually saw the bite mark so that she knows and tells the other parents how much anger was behind this bite.

Just because they downplayed it with you doesn't mean they downplayed it with the other parents.

I would clean the area well and keep an eye on it. I would let the teacher know that the child actually bit through your son's clothing (taking a picture isn't a bad idea either) as an FYI kind of thing.

After that leave it to the school to handle.

And for sure have a talk with your son about respecting other people's belongings and how frustrating it can be when others don't respect us and our property. A "would you have been upset if someone took your shoe and was threatening to throw it over the wall" type talk is definitely needed here.

I totally get why you are upset, and I think that Nicole P and Dawn have just the right advice - a picture, and take your child to the teacher (and principal if necessary) and show them how bad it is, and ask them to handle it.

That said, I hope you are also addressing the fact that your son was being a bully.

I would take a picture and follow up with the teacher. I would say, "I didn't realize how bad the bite was til we got home and I want to let you know that this was more severe than I was lead to believe. I realize you can't tell me about specific disciplinary actions for another child, but I do think this needs to be address as more than just kids will be kids." Then you have to let it be. Don't contact the parents.

I would emphasize to my child that he needed to respect others, but that also doesn't mean he deserved to be bitten.

I would treat the bite as necessary. My DD was once bitten hard at a family baby shower and did not require any additional medical care other than the first aid my aunt (former nurse) provided - an ice pack and some ibuprofen. If it broke the skin, that is another matter and I'd probably put a call in to the pediatrician just to be safe. Humans have dirty mouths.

The other boy was teased by your boy and reacted. They are in kindergarden and have very little restrained.I would like to know if you spoke to your child about teasing other kids? I actually had a similiar situation with my daughter. A boy grabbed her sweater and was trying to throw it over the school fence she ran to get it. 2 of his buddies got their ahead of her and tried to hold her back. They actually had her hands pinned behind her. My daughter broke loose and clocked the boy with her elbow the one who started it and got her sweater and ran away. All together there were 5 boys were against one elementary school age girl. Where were those parents teaching there kids not to tease other kids, especially a girl. Of course she got in trouble because that is how crazy public schools are and how they are breeding bullies.Got her out of that school fast.

I wonder what your son thinks should happen next?

I would be furious! Actually, I *have* been furious about the same thing, only my child was younger. I was advised to take a picture, and then advised by my doctor friend to have any bite marks that break the skin looked at by a doctor. He says that a human bite is worse than a dog bite! Gah!!!

Oh.......I just read Dawn's response. Great answer! I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction. So sorry that this all happened!

first, take a picture.

S., take the picture to the teacher and show it to her.

third, calm down - yes, they probably downplayed it to YOU because your son was "the victim". probably hoping it WASN'T that bad, therefore no need to get you upset needlessly. they didn't look at his arm, obviously. i would bet they probably addressed it with the other child and his parents, much more seriously. as you said, this isn't a 2 year old at daycare.

do pursue it - don't freak out. hang in there mom. as long as he's not in obvious pain, skin isn't broken, etc, it's probably okay. don't make it upsetting for him if he wasn't too bothered by it (after all, he did start it by antagonizing the child - which should be addressed, because that's not ok either).

I would take a picture of his marks - even if it is with your phone- so you can show the teacher how bad it looks even now/hours later when you take him in tomorrow. I would have expected that the teacher would have looked at it closely when it happened but if she did not, perhaps that is why she played it off so casually with you. Not taking a good look at your child after this incident would actually upset me too.

At my son's school, they tell us if something like this happens but they don't name names. I've been lucky and never had anything like this happen to my son....but if this was me, I would let the teacher know this was more serious than previously discussed and in the future you would apprreciate more attention payed to to these matters and perhaps they need to keep an extra eye on the aggressor to be sure he does nothing like this again.

I'm sure a bite like that is going to bruise, I would contact the principal at the school and ask to speak w/them along w/your son and the other boy and his parents this morning if possible. That way you can all discuss this matter and clear this up. Sure your son was in the wrong for throwing the boy's shoe, but the boy should have a little more self-control then that and the teacher who oversees the after care program needs to be spoken to as well. Best of luck to you.

I agree with Nicole. I would take pictures. I would go to the school tomorrow and talk to the principle, explain that I didn't think it was a big deal until I saw the marks left through his clothes. Then as dawn said I would let the school handle it.
Perhaps the teacher didn't see the marks either.
In our children's school the other child would have been sent to the principles office, and the parents would have to sign a form saying they were informed of the reason-but I'm sure the kid is not going to volunteer the fact that he bit very hard.

If you have trusted the school thus far, please trust that they will NOT be downplaying this with the other child's parents. There's likely going to be quite a discussion, perhaps a conference-- most good daycares and preschools will put parents on notice that if there are continued incidents, they will need to exclude the child.

I'll also say this, not to make you feel badly, however, the next time something like this comes up, be sure to look and assess the injury right away. Do take pictures and if it were me, I would be talking to the teacher and director about the fact that they hadn't mentioned that the skin was broken and that it was a bad bite. The redness may have come up later, but did they make sure to wash and disinfect the bite area? Those would be my questions. (When I had my preschool, I had an accident/injury report form which I filled out, explaining first aid and TLC given, nature of incident, and for insurance purposes I always had the parents read the report and sign and return a copy. )

As for the other boy-- let them handle the discipline and the boy's parents. The only thing that will come from you calling them is that they have someone else to focus any upset or anger on instead of where it belongs-- squarely on their son.

did you take a photo?

Anytime the skin is broken from a bite you should be called immediately. I would make a stink of this for sure, and take him to the doctor, bites that break the skin are serious. This has crossed the line from a behavioral issue to a health and safety concern. I would mainly be super pissed that they either didnt check to see the seriousness of the injury or didnt bother to call you when they saw how bad it was. I would not contact the other parents, especially if you dont know them. My guess is this is not the first time he has bitten, Im sure they know how hard he bites, since he has probably bitten them or his siblings before. Kids that bite tend to do it a lot.

My kids were never bitten. I would try to have the other switch classes. Why should your son have to move to another class. Remember you are your childs advocate sometimes we have to be tough/ assertive when it comes to our kids. Don't take no for an answer.

Take him to the Dr. make sure wound is ok and that he doesn't need a tetanus shot or something. Secondly, ask to see the principle tomorrow when you drop your son off at school and show him/her the bite. Explain how the teacher "downplayed" everything and tell them you expect the other parents to be told. Obviously, they can't do anything for your son, but you could help prevent the next incident. If this kid's a biter, that could be dangerous.....with that said, also be prepared to discuss your son being the one who started it and brought on the bite. Be patient and make the point that the biting is worse than the provoking your son started. Good Luck!

Take a picture. Give it to the school. It needs to go on his record. It could happen again and each time they could say it was the first time. chances are that this boy isn't good with expressing himself with words yet, but you don't want to take that chance as it doesn't seem ike a warning bite, more like "i'm fed up, you really really deserve this" bite.
It doesn't matter what your son did to provoke this. just like the shooter today in phoenix, you don't end an arguement with violence. Kids need to learn how to use words or walk away, not the strongest weapon they can get a hold of (mouth, scissors, pencil, knife or gun)
When i was that age (i'm in my 40's now) i bit a bigger kid that was teasing me. they school made me see a psyciatrist. (story told to me by my mother). he bent my finger back and i think i was suppose to tell him when it hurt. i'm sure i endured the pain as long as i could, and then bit him. my mom grabbed me and left, couldn't believe that someone would purposely inflict pain on a child, and for so much money! they also switched my school.
i never bit again. i must have learnt to express myself better with words.

My question to you would be did the teachers even take off his jacket & look at the bite? Did they send him to the nurse for it to be cleaned because it did break the skin? If the kid got such a harsh bite he had to of been locked on your son's arm for awhile so how far away were the teachers.. I agree with you I think the parents should be notified of how bad it was. take pics of your son's arm so they can see.. make sure the school documents this incident along with yourself so if this continues with the same kid then there is documentation of all the violent behavior...

While your son was wrong to grab the other kid's shoe and start tossing it, that was not a reason for the other kid to bite him. I would contact the other parents, admit to my child's wrongdoing, and at the same time ask that they do something about their son's biting.
If my child bit someone for grabbing her shoe, I would be livid with her. I wouldn't be happy with the other kid either, but she has known not to bite people except in self-defense since she had teeth.

In the future, if something like this happens again, be sure to look at the area in question while still at school in front of the teacher. That way you can get her explanation as to why you weren't called immediately, did they ice the location, etc. For the bite area, be sure to put Neosporin on it and cover it up, after you take a picture. For the bite to be so drastic, did the kid tear, puncture or rip the sweatshirt?

I would defintely contact the school to find out how the teacher's responded. Yes, I could see a teacher telling your son that he deserved it, but that would be like you said, if it were a pinch or even a bite that didn't break through. However, what you described is not good and the teacher's should have treated the event with more care and concern.