Losing Control

Wow! Am I reading my own entry?!!! We should meet for a playdate; the kids can run around, and you and I can moan, groan, grunt, and complain (and even maybe help each other). I just contacted a mortgage rep on Monday to see about getting a mortgage to buy a home because I, too, feel hopeless that things will ever change positively with my husband. What do you say?

Yes, C., been there done that. I would be glad to listen and see if my experience can benefit you.

M. G

... control is an illusion meant to drive people insane, lol.

None of us ever have as much as we would like!

And, you're kids, as important as they are, don't necessarily need to come first all of the time. My kids know that as much as I absolutely love and value them, Dad and Mom are the most important unit of the family. It sometimes seems less desirable for them in the short term, but in the long term, it is always more. And we've mentioned that to them when our needs and the kids wants have conflicted. They are going to grow up, move away, and not call home as much as they should. We are going to be stuck together forever, so we may as well make sure we're going to enjoy it by building as many positive memories for ourselves as we can (both little and big) and in the meantime, we have to stay sane happy and balanced enough to be productive in our own lives, AND to ensure we're up to meeting the challenges and stresses of "sanely" (I use that word loosely) navigating their needs and desires as well. It's true that if "Momma (or Poppa) ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!" What's that other saying... "#%&* rolls down hill?" unfortunately kids are short. You don't want them stuck dealing with the trickle down effect of unhappy parents, becuase you will do it, whether or not you think you're going to avoid it.

Family is about balance as a whole, and making sure whosever needs are most out of whack gets what they need to bring the whole back into balance. Sounds like right now, that's you! :) I'd remind hubby too about that balance thing. If he's going to be super leinant (though I'm sure we all understand that it's a lot more fun) than you have to be super strict if you're going to raise compassionate competent adult women, and that's not a fair position to put you in. If he doesn't like being stern a little, tell him to imagine how you feel having to be stern a lot!! That's hard on everyone - no one likes to feel (or project) displeasure all the time. Remind him your needs are part of the healty family balance as well as his and ask him to consider moderation.

Don't feel bad about it! Also, cheezy as it sounds - do read some of the books people have suggested. I found Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus in my attic -perhaps the cheeziest sounding amoung them - as a relic from the folks that lived here before, and about a year ago when things were really, terribly bad for us, I thought what the heck, I may as well read it, it certainly can't *damage* my relationship any! And to my surprise, I found it very helpful. Now many times when we fight, I find myself thinking "I wish he'd read that stupid book! His communication with me sucks!" Lol. In fact, I should probably just tell him that sometime before our next fight! *grin* I've tried leaving it laying near his side of the bed, etc. But as often is the case, I guess he's just not one for taking subtle hints.. :)

...Taking life too seriously can drive you mad. We're just people and we can only do what we can do. Life is bound to throw us some crazy curves (it's my opinion the Universe created us because it was in need of a good sitcom for entertainment) all we can do is try to make the most out of them and enjoy life for the crazy ride it is...

Oh, and like I said, if you need to escape for coffee let me know :) I'm largely "grounded" to my house, but my coffee pot is in good working order and the chaos here is fairly friendly... :)

Hang in there! I read two books that really have started helping in marital communication. One is the Five love languages, and the other is Love and Respect by Eggerichs. Some people are peace keepers, and just avoid conflict at all costs. I agree with you, that kids need discipline and to be taught manners... but my husband is more the 'fun' one. I have tried to 'pick my battles' and choose the discipline for the things i feel are most important. Maybe if you use feeling words... It makes me feel ___ when you ___. This was the advice a counselor gave me, because feelings aren't wrong. Avoid starting with 'you are' or character attack. Blessings to you! A.

Hey C.,

I am sorry to hear about your troubles. I found that my marriage was a mess when there were financial troubles. The number one need of a woman is security and if you don't have that with the finances it can ruin everything else. My husband and i went to a Dave Ramsey class at our church. It is a 13 week course that talks about all aspects of finances. My husband did not want to go but he went because I asked him and said it was important to me. It has been the best thing to happen to our marriage. We aren't making any more money but we have come to an understanding as to where we are and where WE want to go together. I know that Resurrection Life Church on 52nd and Ivanrest has a class starting this fall. I believe that they also have child care!! Hope this helps.

L.

PS A pastor friend of mine was having diffuculty in his marriage so they went and saw a counselor. They found it life changing because they were forced to do homework together to work on there communication skills with one another. If you would like the name of the counselor i could find out just email me back.

I married a man that sees thing differently than me on many levels, but we seem to share a basic philosophy on life. I read somewhere that you can differ psychologically, but should be the same philosophically in a marriage. Anyway, I think the key is in your request title. Its a control thing. Not like you're a controlling b----, but you feel like you're not getting things the way you like because of him. And probably being the feminine side of the duo, you allow his dominance to, in the end, prevail. And that probably bugs you, as it does me at times. He may be digging in his heels for the same reason or other issues about being told what to do. Regardless, you need to agree to disagree and set your policies, like dining room ettiquite, etc. My husband had an uncomfortable dinner experience every night of his youth. Not like horrible, but it was his dad's chance to let everyone know his opinions about everything, and most were negative and many dealt with criticism of the kids. As a result, he avoids eating with us. I really had a hard time with it when the kids were small, because my experience was very different and I wanted that for my kids. So, we rarely sit down and have a serious discussion about things like that, but I've learned what I can accept and what will irritate me to distraction. And he's learned things, too. I don't know exactly what to tell you to do, except concentrate on how you communicate & don't discuss it as its happening or just before bed. You may need to tailor your words to sound better to him. You could read up on it and tell him some "facts" about indulgences or discuss how difficult it is to be the bad guy as a parent having to set limits. Sort of get him to almost get the idea himself? Or, in the end, be direct and ask for what you want. "I know you like to make ---- happy, but I find if I give her x every day she doesn't appreciate it as much. Could you limit it to just weekly?" I find just saying what I don't like about something rarely changes his mind. No quick answer, but if you've considered leaving, its important he knows how much you need to feel like you have some influence. You really can't ever change him, but maybe you can get on the same page through negotiation. A final note, my husband rarely eats with us except when its Sunday dinner and he's "forced" into it. I finally decided that the friction about it was worse for my kids than the separation. I still feel its not ideal and that they lose something w/o the experience, but I accept it and try to make the Sunday dinners very pleasant. Good luck!!!

Hi C., Sorry to hear you had a bad counseling experience, a good counselor can be your best tool in mending a relationship. First off, it sounds more like communication problems than problems of dinner time or giving in to children. It sounds like you two need to set boundries in your parenting styles. Like if THIS happens then parents will react in THIS way. I would strongly suggest finding a new conselor and go for marriage communication. Call around to different agencies or even call your insurance company and see who is recommended. You can always go through Bethany Services, Catholic Social Services, your local church.... Also don't feel bad in requesting either a male or female counselor, whatever you're more comfortable with. Good Luck! Hang in there... and in the meantime try to keep it rational with your hubby until you can get back in for counseling!

Oh C.... I'm so sorry.

Ok, first ... the discipline thing. Yes, you and your husband NEED to get on the same page with that one. If you don't you will continue to have issues with your kids. They already know they can push you and get what they want. Unless your daughter has an eating disorder, she will not starve herself. She may sneak food ... but she will not starve.

I would suggest sitting down with your husband and rationally, calmly discussing the situation. Tell him what you are frustrated with, specifically. Ask for change, specifically stating exactly what you would and would not like him to do. Try to not get emotional. Men tend to be very logical and shut down when we get emotional. Tell him family time is important. That everyone needs to sit and eat dinner together and not rush off.

Once you can get your husband on the same page, as a family sit down and discuss the 'new rules' of engagement.

You also need to get on the same page as far as money. Budget yourself. Stick to the budget.

Remember, it takes TWO to make a relationship work. If you are the only one willing to work on the relationship then there isn't a relationship in the first place. I am not one to promote leaving your spouse. However, at the same time if your spouse refuses to acknowledge his contribution to the issues and refuses to work on things to make them better... then there is nothing you can do. You can not stay in a marriage where you are defeated. But, before you leave you have to KNOW that you KNOW that you KNOW you did all you could. Not just 'feel' like he won't change...but KNOW he won't change. If you don't you will be riddled with 'what if' guilt for a lifetime.

Counseling... that is very unfortunate you did not have a good experience the first time. I WOULD encourage you to find another. Not all counselors are the same. They are as varied as people. Each counselor will have his/her own technique, style, experiences, prejudices, biased, etc... I would also encourage you to do COUPLES counseling. As I said, it take two.

I'm sorry I don't have much more advice. You are certainly in a difficult situation. I'm wondering what is at the root of your husband being so lenient with the kids and at the same time so unengaged. Seems like there is something deep in there.....

You and your hubby need to talk to each other .... and soon....
If your willing to go to counciling then I can only guess your willing to do home work? :-) I have found that for the marriage the best things I found was reading " Five languages of love" " Love and Respect" and watching the DVDS of a mark Gungor marriage retreat. The dvds are great since you can sit down with hubby, watch it and laugh together... They are FUNNY!! And true! A real conversation starter. Tackle one thing at a time. Do not EVER start a sentance with YOU. They feel like you are going to attack them. Avoid the word always and never. (as in YOU ALWAYS... I ALWAYS etc) Those are strong words. Saying I feel at the beginning is much netter...

Hi C.:
I've read your post and can so relate to your life. In spite of the fact that I'm probably old enough to be your mother I feel that I needed to put my two cents in anyway. The first thing I would recommend is that you get in touch with another counselor. Walking away from the situation is nothing but a band aid fix and your problem is going to continue unless your husband changes his ways. Children are very astute and yours aren't any different. What is going to become very obvious to the kids pretty quickly is that they get what they want from Daddy and that Mommy is the "wicked witch of the west." I know I'm not telling you anything new but you and your hubby need to present a united front in of the girls. If you disagree on discipline discuss it away from the kids.

I often times contemplated leaving my husband and still do from time to time. Our youngest is 19 and is still pitting us against each other so I'm still dealing with what you are going through.

If you do decide on going back to counseling, make sure you get your husband involved as well; perhaps if he hears the solution to the problem from a professional he might start to reconsider his actions. I'm really sorry that you had such a bad experience your fist time out but please don't let that dissuade you from trying again.

Please remember that you are a person that has needs and wants as well and you do need time for yourself without feeling guilty; it actually helps you to be able to cope and perform all your other duties.

I'd be happy to listen whenever you needed to talk and if you would like that you can email me at ____@____.com

I hope this helps a bit. Hang in there; you're a special person and deserve to be treated well.

M.

Hello C.:

My suggestion would be for both you and your husband to take a parenting class together. Try contacting your local community education program and see if they offer such a class. My husband and I took a Love & Logic parenting class together and it helped put us on the same page.

Also, if you can't find a class (or even if you can), check your public library to see if you can find any Love & Logic parenting series books or books on CD by Jim Fay (& Foster Cline. Also, I agree with the previous respondent, the "Five Love Languages" book is excellent.

My last piece of advice is to try and make it a priority to go on a date with your husband once a week. Even if it's for a few hours and you just go out and get coffee and talk, or walk together in a park. It's so easy to let those wonderful little girls take over your life completely. But it's important to remember that you were/are a couple first. Try to focus on and remember why you fell in love with your husband in the first place.

Best of luck to you C.. God bless!

I know how you are feeling. I heard some great advice you need to put you and your husband first then the kids. A happy couple makes for happy kids. You need to go on a get away just the two of you. That worked for my husband and I.

As far as not agreeing on the disipline for the kids. This is a tough one. Does he work a lot? Whatever the answer you need to pick your battles wisley. Men want to feel like they have a say too. The problem is that they don't have the same chemestry to understand what is good for the kids all the time. Or age appropriate. What I do is cut out articles to back me up. This is hard to type all of this. here is my email address ____@____.com. email me and I will write more.

I have just the person for you. Her name is Kirsten Ross and she is a "personal coach". She is great. She really addresses the things that you need to work on to balance your life, helps you create steps to take control and puts you in charge of your own growth. She gets to the source of your issues. She does the first consultation for free so you can see if you think it's going to work. She really has a gift. Her number is ###-###-####. You can check out her website - kirstenross.com

I recommend counseling - I agree that there are some bad counselors out there, as you found out, but it is worth a try again. Even if he won't go, it can be very helpful to get some "tools in your toolbelt" for your emtional health and parenting, even in you two don't agree. Perspectives of Troy takes many insurances. It might be worth a call.

Know that you are not alone. That helps me when I get down. Marriage is hard and raising kids is harder. We want to make good choices for our kids, they need boundaries, but it is never easy. Especially when our partners aren't on-board. You need to talk with him about your feelings. It will get worse if you don't.

Hang in there.

S.

Wow did you obviously miss out last night on a Supernanny program. The couple was close to divorce, not on the same page at all as far as kids and discipline, dad had a patience issue....it was great.

So since you missed it, decide between you 2 what you want. Do you want a united family? Do you want a divorce? You have to straighten out yourselves as a couple first, get on the same page, etc and then as a united couple decide on disciplining the kids. I agree; if your daughter doesn't eat what's on her plate she should NOT get something else. Or let her fix dinner and see how she likes when people find her efforts lacking.

She probably finds the dinner table dull. Dad doesn't seem to take an interest in her, does mom?

If you want counselling, find another one. If it's important enough for you to go, then do it alone. If it isn't important enough to your husband, that says a lot there: he's unwillig to lift a finger.

I find myself in much the same situation, although my kids are all grown and out of high school. One is at home until Dec when he leaves for Air Force. Meanwhile, no job, no income, and not at all happy in a marriage. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

So you're welcome to email me when you need to sound off.

C., you and your husband need to sit down and set boundaries for your kids. You need to let him know that it is not acceptable to undermine your authority with her. You also need to establish in your mind that your kids are NOT the center of your life. This problem is so prevelent in this society and so sad! You are raising adults. People who will leave and start their own lives! What are you left with relationship wise if you and your husband make them the center of your lives?? Your children need to see that you have a healthy relationship, that you love and respect each other, and that you put each other first, and that you are a united front on discipline issues. They cannot and will not have healthy relationships of their own when it's their turn if they do't see it lived out with you first!!! You need to decide which issues are of lasting consequences and which are disputable. If it will matter in 5 years, then it is something you need to address! Getting daddy to give me my way will have serious consequences down the road. What will that look like when they are teens?? I hope I have given you some things to think over and have been a help. Divorce is not the answer, boundaries for you, your husband, and the kids will help. L. S.

My first counselor did not listen to me and kept telling me to divorce my husband. I sought out a different person. The person I found is wonderful. She is actually seeing both of us separatly and together. Turns out my husband has a mental illness that was contributing to our marriage issues.
I firmly believe my vows, I didn't want to divorce him. It has been a long hard road. But childern change the marriage and you learn more about each other after you have kids. We have been seeing a counselor since Oct 07 and I think we are almost complete.
I strongly encourage you to seek outside help before it is too late.

Sorry that you've had such a bad counselor experience! A good counselor should listen to your whole story, help you find ways to deal with issues when they come up (good confrontation skills), challenge you on the dysfunctional thinking/acting patterns you have, etc... But they are there to support YOU! I'm new to the area and don't have anyone to recommend, but you might look for someone else. I wish my mom was in the area (but she's in KY) because that's her profession.

You do have a pickle of a situation! Leaving won't be a picnic either, though sometimes it can give them a wake up call, do I want to work on this marriage or not. How kids are raised is so important and I think you're right on in your ideas. He probably feels guilt for not having more time with them, or maybe had rigid parents that he's over compensating for in his own parenting style, or doesn't like to say no and deal with a temper tantrum. But whatever his reasons, he needs to set boundaries NOW or life will be miserable. A child without boundaries is UNHAPPY! I see it all the time with lenient parents who have whiny children and they give in "whatever makes you happy". They're never happy because they keep wanting more and more!

Now I don't have it all figured out, I still struggle with my 18 month old over foods she's not wild about. I grew up in a home (as did my husband) where you ate what was on your plate or a timer was brought out and spankings administered, and then you ate it, or it was for your next meal and the whole thing repeated. I find it hard to expect that from an 18 month old, yet don't want to start giving in to her either...

Would your husband be willing to sit down with a professional parenting person to talk about ways to set boundaries with kids. Maybe if you had the attitude of whatever the professional says we'll both do, even if we're not exactly happy with it. Some kind of compromise. If he's unwilling then unfortunately it will probably get worse as the kids get older and issues more complicated and important. Like who she dates, can she have a car at 16, clothes she wears...

Remember its better to work through this issue and find some common ground then to leave (though that may end up being your only option understandably), because he will still be in their life, parenting the way he's parenting, and the kids will pit you two against each other to get what they want and the issues could get worse as he could just do things you don't like to spite you. Divorce is hard on kids, so if two people can commit to working through tough issues that's the way to go!

The counselor's advise of taking a walk when things get tough is only half the picture. It sometimes helps to take a breather before discussing something, but you still need to have the fight eventually or it just builds up resentment! There is nothing wrong with fighting, its just HOW its done. Keeping it to the topic and not the person. Keeping it logical and not emotional. Thing like that. Sometimes I like to make a list of the core reasons that I'm upset (unfortunately I usually wait until after a fight to do this, one that was left unresolved), my fears and things that triggered past issues for me. Giving them a letter sometimes help keep things on a less intense level. Helps you get your entire point across without being interrupted. And gives you a chance to be sure you've stated it correctly.

I hope that some of this was helpful. I hope that you can make some progress in this area. The financial thing is hard too, but that can be more straight forward if you agree to seek professional help in establishing and keeping a budget. At least its not based on opinions, is hard and fast dollars and cents.

Sorry you're going through this. But I can remember having these feelings too when my kids were little. Now we're married 25 yrs and have made it. You must hang in there for the sake of the girls. I believe things will improve you've got to be patient. I started to listen to Dr, Laura Slessinger on AM1260 every morning and her free advice was so helpful. She has books out that are outstanding and would be helpful for you to read. Your daughters need an intact family so divorce should be your last resort. I believe saved for only men who beat, do drugs or cheat. Hang in there friend....and talk to your husband and tell him what you need like "I feel overwhelmed could you help with the dinner work." "i feel we need to be on the same page with disciplining the children"...and remember you are not alone. there are mom groups that are helpful or even a curch group if you're involved with church. good luck friend.

My husband and I had some similar problems a few years ago. Our children are now 12 and 10. I spoke with my Pastor and he helped me understand that our particular issues were parenting issues not marriage issues. One of the things I found was that we thought the same things but had different vocabulary to describe it. For example, he wanted our kids to be our "friends"; and, I said, "Wait a minute. It isn't our job to be their friends but their parents (phrase from a psychologist i worked with). We can be their friends later." What I found out after we really sat down and talked about it, was that he wanted our kids to know they could come to us with anything and any problem. I wanted that, too. So, we came up with a different way to let them know that besides giving in on every thing. Also, I explained to him that I put first God, then him, then our children. Now, I qualified that by saying that together WE had decided to put our children's needs ahead of our own, so it still placed our relationship in the priority. I explained that by saying, our children will grow and go (sad but happy at the same time); he and I will eventually separate physically in life; however, God will always be. And, while he doesn't necessarily believe as I do all of the time, he found logic in that. It is not always easy but it took a lot of talking, sometimes loud talking, and spending some quality alone time, and time in general but it is better. I will keep you and your husband in prayer.
b

Hi C.,

My husband and I have gone through similar struggles. Maybe not exactly the same, but we disagree on many levels. I think it's true when they say that we marry our opposite! I too had approached my husband about counceling at one point, but we never did go. One thing we did agree on is that we believed sometimes counceling makes things worse by revisiting your troubles over and over again.

So, what I can tell you - is about a book... two books actually... that saved my marriage. The first is The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. It is an easy read, I encourage you to read it together. It talks about how people speak the language of love differently and can be applied not only in you marriage, but with your children, friends, co-workers, etc.

The second book is Love and Respect by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs. This book talks about breaking the crazy cycle we can get into in our marriage. The cycle of losing respect, getting angry, feeling unloved, getting angry. And it also talks a lot about why we feel this way - from both perspectives, men and women.

I can't tell you how much these books helped us. I hope that this will help you too.

Hi C.---I'm not sure I have any suggestions to help you with your situation, except to pray for you for guidance. But I do have a couple of comments which may help you with your resolve to find a solution to your problem.

Kids need boundries. They need them in order to learn how to make good decisions. It is our job as parents to teach them that. Kids are happier with boundries. It gives them security and confidence to learn and grow.

The last thing you need to do with a busy schedule is run a diner at mealtime. Your daughter won't starve herself. You might be able to give her choices within the meal. For example, with a salad, which 3 of 5 different items does she want on her salad, tomatoes, cucumbers, zuchinni, pea pods, carrots, etc. At our house, vegetables take up over half of the plate so we have 2 or 3 at each meal. She could choose the ones that she wants, but within the items offered that night. At a wellness lecture I attended, the speaker says that she requires her children to try everything, they can't say they don't like it if they've never tried it, and they have to eat the same number of bites of a food as their age. So your 4 year old would have to eat 4 bites of a food. She also said that she serves the veggies first so that she is sure to get the most healthful foods (or your daughter's least favorite food so that there is no other choice at the time) in them while they are most hungry. When asked for the main course, she replies that it's not ready yet. Keep offering the foods she doesn't like, it takes up to 10 to 14 attempts before the food is accepted. Sorry that I've gotten a little off topic as this won't help with your husband giving her other foods. But I am hoping to help you with ideas to work with your daughter to get around that problem through developing new habits with your daughter rather than having to do that with your husband.

I've also read that it is very important for families to eat together. It is good for the family relationship, particulary as the girls get older. I can't recall the dynamics that are at work with this, but I'd be happy to find that information for you so that you can share it with your husband.

As others have said, communication between you and your husband is the key. Do take time for just the two of you. There is a way to find common ground. Tell him how you feel and then ask him to share why he feels as he does. I"m sure this won't be easy, but I'm sure you'll agree that your family's healthy relationship is worth all the work in the world. Good luck and I'll say my prayers. In health and wellness, D.

You had a loser of a counsellor, but there are great ones out there. Please keep trying. Aim for a family counselor, and try to get your husband on board to go, but better alone than not at all. Your husband probably does not realize how demoralizing his behavior is for you. He is thinking of himself first, as most of us do, but he is not thinking ahead of the consequences (bratty, disobedient children, a divorce, etc).Just taking the path of least resistance. A third party can often make a better wake up call than you can.

Mostly, the counseling will help you clarify your values: is the marriage in trouble from your husbands behavior and how you feel about it and all the related questions.

I was in a similar situation for years, got some counseling, a divorce, and am happily remarried. I wish that I had made it clear to my son's father much sooner how his actions and inactions made me feel. By the time we got to counseling, my feelings for him were so tainted that I couldn't forgive him..... all while he saw himself as a wonderful father. He had NO IDEA how things he did and said made me feel. Counseling a few years earlier may have made a difference. He may have never changed his behavior, but then I wouldn't have had the questions in my mind about if he was clueless or deliberately undermining me.

I wish you the best of luck in working this out,
L.

It's unfotunate that you had a bad counseling experience. A good therapist can help the two of you work on your communication and get beyond having the same disagreements all the time. Consider trying it again. Look for a receommendation if possible. It's almost always about communicating and understanding one another. You can work through the differing viewpoints on child rearing if you're not angry and frustrated with each other.

Hi C. -

Your story sounds a lot like what I was going through a few years back. Unfortunately my situation ended in divorce. Therapy helped me through it all and I found a good therapist to help me. Now that I don't have to deal with another person underminding my every move things have definitely smoothed out and my kids and I are doing much better. A big part of my decision to divorce was because I have three special needs boys and my ex wouldn't support my position on discipline and we had financial opinion differences, too. If I were you I'd seek out another therapist to help you decide which direction you should go. If your husband is willing to join you that's all the better. My ex wouldn't join me and only thought of himself. I'm here if you need to sound off and you think my experiences might help.

Good luck - S.