Mom Seeking Advice on Discipline for Twin 21 Month Olds

I am a day care provider and I have recently found out that the mind in a child does not process the negative words such as no or don't. If you want them to have a positive response you need to talk in a positive format to them. Try saying stop instead of no. You could say, stop jumping, then say get down firmly. If they run say only "stop" or "walk".
They understand more than you think. They don't want to listen. Time out does take a while for them to really do it properly. I will stand there while they are in time out until I know they realize that they cannot get up. When they would try I tell them, sit, and for 2 minutes at that age. It is much more difficult with 2. It will take several times and they will learn it. You have to keep at it b/c they think they will get away with it and you will not go after them when they run. It is very trying and you need a lot of patience.

L.

"The Science of Parenting" by Margot Sunderland, has a GREAT chapter on tantrums, based on the latest brains scans and research. Basically 2 different kinds: one requires empathy and the other requires ignoring.
Also, good stuff in "Happiest Toddler on the Block".

Dear T.,

Have you tried playing along with them? It sounds like your twins are training you to react to their fun. Instead of getting upset and going into the decipline mode, surprise them by offering them something more fun to do instead. I found water guns to be great fun for everyone and the giggling chase got their minds off whatever they were doing.

As for your daughter's temper tantrums, show her a more acceptable way to deal with her frustrations. My granddaughter used to throw herself on the floor and scream and kick her feet and throw her arms around. I was watching her one day and witnessed this first hand. I didn't say anything to her or try to comfort her in any way. I just started placing cushions all around the floor piled on each other. She stopped her tantrum to watch what I was doing. As I saw her interest grow, I said to her: Now, there's a really soft place to lay your body down. Try it out. She did and she never showed her temper to me again. She'd just put the pillows on the floor and throw herself down quietly, all the while watching my reaction, which was to smile at her.

Sometimes, laughter is the best way to change the mindset of little people. Try it. You'll see a different side of yourself and your youngsters.

Sincerely, M.

T.,

This sounds soooo familiar! I also have boy/girl twins. However, like Teresa, I had no issues with letting them climb and jump off things. I have pictures of them on the dining room table at that age! My philosophy is that it is a normal kid thing, they're going to do it anyway and they're building their gross motor skills, as well as judgment about their own limitations. So what I did was make some places "okay" to climb on and jump, and taught them the proper way to do it (i.e. if it really was too high to jump from, I taught them how to go turn around and go down feet first).

But when they tried to get up somewhere that wasn't "okay" (like the kitchen table or counters), I'd tell them it wasn't allowed, and redirect them to one of the "okay" places. They quickly learned what was allowed and what wasn't because they still had an outlet for their need for the activity in some form...and they couldn't push Mommy's buttons on the issue.

It was easier for our son, who was born with an excellent sense of what he could and could not do with his body. Our daughter had no sense of fear whatsoever and had to learn caution from a few hard knocks. When she started going for higher jumps and knew that she could get bruised, she'd ask for me to hold out my hand for support so she could use me for balance while she taught her muscles what to do.

My daughter was the same with tantrums (still is sometimes at 3 1/2)...long, loud screeches that never seemed to end. Instead of completing ignoring it at that age, I'd reflect back what I thought she was thinking/feeling "I know, I know. You're so mad and angry. You wanted to play with xxx and Mommy took it away. You don't understand why you can't play with it. Mommy's so mean sometimes. It's so frustrating not to be able to do whatever you want when you want." etc. If she wasn't listening to the words, then I'd hold her and repeat them over and over until she calmed down. I think you might not be giving her enough credit; she probably does understand what you're saying (and at those moments she doesn't care for what she's hearing) but she might be feeling you're not understanding her anger/frustration.

As she got older and better able to express what was upsetting her, the tantrums decreased in intensity and duration. I tell her that she has to use her words to tell me what's wrong because I can't understand them when she's whining.

Oh, we also went through a stage with our son and tantrums at bedtime, but he got physical and tried to bang his head on the rails of his crib. When he did that, I'd stop him, tell him he wasn't allowed to deliberately hurt himself and warn him that all his books and friends would go away if he kept doing it (he used to sleep with a dozen books and a half dozen stuffed toys). Then I followed through and only allowed him to keep his absolute favorite lovie and emptied out the crib. He got items back the next time he went to bed without a tantrum. After two cycles of this, all I had to do what ask him if he wanted his books and friends to go away again and he'd still cry, but tried to self-soothe and wouldn't try hurting himself.

Now when he and his sister sometimes feel out of control, they'll get on their hands and knees and slap their hands on the floor 4 times (I have no idea why the number 4) and then get up to tell me that they "bumped" their hands and want the Mommy boo-boo kisses. And the mini-tantrums cease as soon as I "comfort" them with kisses for the boo-boos. I have absolutely no idea why it works for them, but I think it's an acceptable compromise!

I hate to tell you this, but I found 2 to be a much easier age than 3; at 2 you can still redirect them fairly easily. At 3, they remember what they were doing wrong and keep going back to try to continue! LOL!

Truth is my husband and I have never successfully been able to use timeouts at home, (maybe because it doesn't occur to us to try very often!) only out in public where we sit them down and face them at their level and tell them they have to stay put.

Don't be surprised, though, if what works for your son, won't work on your daughter and vice versa. Good luck; you'll get through it all and find what works best for all of you.

Note: Just read Marie's response and that works for us as well, letting them know in advance about a transition (i.e when Mommy takes a shower, we'll all get dressed and go shopping). And reminding them along the way. "Okay, Mommy's had her shower, it's time to get dressed so we can go shopping." The 'bye-bye' trick works too; I think it gives them a feeling of control.

Hi! Yes, your twins are deffinately in the terrible 2's phase. 18-24 months is the hardest time with a toddler--and 2 can only mean twice the frustrations. There is a great book called The Happiest Toddler on the Block (also a video but use together or just the book) by Harvey Karp. It talks about the development of your child (ren) by age and ways to get them to behave. It is a respectful approach to parenting, both to the parent and child. The book covers age 1-4.

best of luck!

Hi T.. Discipline is so tough at that age. I used time outs with my son, also, and I used an exersaucer and left the room. Having me out of the room was enough of a punishment for him because he would scream the whole time.

But I wish I could go back (he's 3 1/2 now) and start explaining things to him at an earlier age, even when I thought he didn't understand. At one point I realized that if i told my son ahead of time what to expect from a situation, everything went much, much better. And I think I assumed he didn't understand when he actually understood a lot more than I thought. For instance, at a toy store. We used to just pick up our son and walk out of the toy store without any warning and he would scream and kick. When we started telling him ahead of time that we would be leaving soon, it made leaving the toy store so much better. Sometimes we give him two or three warnings that we're going soon. I also tell him the sequence of things, like, we're going to eat dinner, then take a bath, then watch your favorite TV show. He loves knowing what's coming and often repeats it to me.

Also, my husband one day told him to say bye-bye to the toys at the store or the slide at the park and that helped immensely. Something so simple made it a lot easier to get through transitions throughout the day.

As for the ottoman, I don't have much advice except to give them another fun thing to do. When I tell my son I don't want him to jump from somewhere, I tell him, "But you can jump up and down on the floor." It works! He doesn't stop trying to do the thing we don't want him to do, but as soon as I tell him no, he'll say, "But can I jump on the floor?" Although you think your 21-month-olds don't understand you, you might be surprised by how much they will pick up if you begin explaining things to them more. Good luck!

I bought a Kid-Riffic Jump Smart Trampoline for my little jumper. It's right next to our couch (his former jumping spot). We really tried everything to get him to stop. Finally, we gave him something else to jump on and it hasn't been a problem since. It is wonderful for him to use up all that energy, to have some fun, and to know that couches are NOT for jumping! There are videos of other little ones using it on Toys r us website. I think you would know if yours are ready for it.

When it comes to disipline I've administered plenty of time outs. It doesn't bring results. A sad/disapproving/somber face and lecture really works best for most things. Toddlers often find disipline a game, but they don't truly want to hurt and disappoint mommy!

Tantrums are inevitable. I have found that remaining calm and giving reassurance is best (holding, hugging, soothing voice). You can tell the difference between a loss of emotional control and a foot-stomping manipulation tactict. I just ignore the latter.

Having two at once must be very challenging! I would guess that separating them when they are really acting up may help. I don't know how possible that is, but I'm sure they feed off eachother making it difficult for you to maintain control. Good luck-you'll get through it!

I would remove the Ottoman. If they mistreat it, simply take it away. Every child is different, and having 2 at the same age and stage can be really challenging - esp when it's 2 against Mom. My theory with little ones was to tell them the appropriate behavior, and if they didn't obey, I would count to 3. On 3, I would physically force them to perform the behavior I was looking for -- simply move them inthe appropriate direction. It usually worked, but doesn't always. If nothing is working as you move the children from their chosen activity, I would simply remove the Ottoman from the room, so it's gone. Of course, the next thing will be jumping on the couch, or the bed or something, so you have to think through how you will deal with that.

I have a suspicion that the kids are enjoying getting a response from Mom. Often at that age, they aren't "being bad" so much as they are experimenting with how they can control their environment -- and it sounds like they are controlling quite well -- they know exactly how to raise Mom's blood pressure. Try intervening a little earlier, to short-circuit the problem -- maybe present alternative activities and provide attention -- I know it's hard, because they probably do it while you're getting supper after work, or are involved in something that has to be done, but they are working on getting your attention, and you need to find a way to give them attention prior to them working on you losing your cool.

good luck ! The 2's aren't really all that terrible. don't believe everything you hear. The kids will be expanding their boundaries, and will sometimes push the limits, and sometimes crave the loving security of those boundaries. Your job will be to be sure they are safe while "spreading their wings" and also to be there to catch them when they fall. (hopefully not off the Ottoman !! )

I agree with the other moms about the SuperNanny method or something like it. My niece was a terror and wouldn't listen to anyone at that age. I had her for a day and put her in timeout (had to put her on the couch about 20 times before she finally stayed there) and she was so well behaved after I couldn't believe it. I found out that they never disciplined her like that so she just did what she wanted. It can work with consistency.

As far as the temper tantrums, I recommend that you ignore them as long as she's in no danger of hurting herself. My nephew started holding his breath at that age and passing out during tantrums. The doctor told my sister that he was doing it on purpose to get attention and that we should ignore it and just make sure that when he falls he doesn't hurt himself. We thought he was nuts! But after awhile we got so used to them that we would just stand behind him and catch him when he fell. Soon, the tantrums did stop.

You have your hands full but what a great gift!! Twin girls. I have 3 kids and the "2's" could be tough. You said they don't understand yet... and time out isnt working. Do you have a little sliding board or something they could jump from safely?? Maybe show them a safe place to jump to and from - like the little slide to the carpet square, etc. If they continue to jump from the ottoman, maybe just sit them down on the ottoman and say NO JUMPING!!! and stay right there with them and each time they try to move make them sit down again. Do this for no more than 2 minutes. The show them where they can jump safely. They will pick it up if you remain consistent with it. Maybe do an at home IEP so you can remember the steps that you want to take to reach the goal of no jumping from the ottoman. That way you are consistent each time and you really have given yourself the chance to think out good alternatives. That was my biggest problem when my kids were little. I wasn't as consistent as I should have been. It's hard when you ahve twins or little ones as close togetehr as I did (12 -18 months) to keep up with all the activity!! You sound like a great mom!! You will do great with teaching them!!

Hi T.

It is hard to teach them the concept of time out. Can you stick with the pack and play, or even use the high chair? Strap them into a high chair with the tray on, no food, no drink, no toys. Sometimes we just have to remove them from the situation for a bit. I honestly can't remember how I finally taught my son to sit in the time out place, it was only 2 years ago... But, nevertheless he sits for time out now although I have had to adjust the spot as he became more able to amuse himself.
Just do your best to ignore the tantrums. When my son got to be about 2 or 2 1/2 I told him if he wanted to scream and cry he could do it in his room. I'd put him in his room and tell him he could come down when he was all done crying. We still do this and some times when I tell him to cry in his room he stops immediately and other times he goes to his room and does his screaming and crying and comes out when he is quiet. I agree that it is so difficult coming up with discipline strategies. after the 18 month mark it is so hard. Just know that you are definately not alone, everyone elses' kids do the same exact things and we all have days where we don't think we can handle it. Wait- that is every day for me...

T.,

I don't have a lot more to add---mostly wanted to say that I agree with Theresa and Vivian. As far as the jumping goes, I'd remove as much danger as possible and try to lighten up on yourself. About the tantrums--maybe you could hold her for a while without telling her she needs to stop crying. At this point, that's the only way she knows how to express how she is feeling. You don't want to teach her to hold in her emotions and never express them, but you do want to teach her appropriate ways of expressing them. That will take time (lots of it). Try asking her how she feels, or say "Are you feeling sad? (angry, frustrated, etc). She'll eventually catch on to the meanings of the words and also to use them instead of tantrums. Hope I'm making sense.

Blessings,
K.

T.,
I think I know how you feel..my son, at that age, would not sit for a time-out either! I used to look at programs showing kids sitting dutifully on their naught spot and think "yeah, right!"
Aside from making "the time out point"--which could be HOURS of you moving them both back to time out and then getting an apology, there's not much else to do to teach the time out. It may be a few days of total misery.
O. thing that worked for my son, instead of a time out, was to take his favorite toy and put it up on the fridge for a set amount of time. Give a warning first and if they continue, scoop up the most beloved possession and put it where they cannot get it for an hour, a day, your choice! Good luck.

21 month olds don't really understand discipline but do respond well to "distraction." They should be corrected from doing what they should not be doing every time-they really won't remember what not to do very well so repeat the correction over and over so you don't send them the message that it is okay. And by "distraction'" I mean to remove them from the incorrect activity/behavior and give them a new focus-like a toy or book or song game. So when they jump, you say "no, we do not jump on the furniture" and then take them off the couch and say, let's read a book instead. Hold them in your lap and refocus them.
With the temper tantrums, that is exactly what my son did, very typical of 2ish yr olds...it has gotten better, but is part of his personality being a high achiever. When he tries something new, he gets frustrated fast if it doesn't go his way. We just ignored the tantrums and tell him it is okay to be sad/frustrated and to take a deep breath when he gets annoyed....then I'd get down close to him after he calmed down a little bit and show him how to take a deep breath. Good distraction and something to focus on...doesn't always work but reacting to the tantrums is just not beneficial...especially if they can get you to do something they want-like leaving the store because they are starting to throw the tantrum and you want to avoid the tantrum.

Start off with consistency. We have 3 kids: 8 1/2 years, 4 years and 10 months. With regards to time-outs, they work great but it is a learning process. You need to follow the lead of Supernanny. Pick a spot with a chair or carpet square away from the television and anything fun. When they are bad/naughty, put them in time-out. If they get up, you need to put them back. Keep in mind that a time-out should last approximately 1 minute per year. They are close enough to have a 2 minute time-out. The key is that if they get up, it starts over. You might have to keep putting them back quite a bit at first. With my brother when he was 2 my mother used to have to sit him in a children's rocking chair and sit with her arm as a seatbelt so that he could not run off. The key to this working is to always be consistent make it the same spot at home all of the time. If you are out of town or on vacation, pick a similar spot. It may take a few days or even a week (depending on how much they disobey and how stubborn they are) so be prepared and take deep breaths to help with your patience.

Also, what works with regards to them using a toy to misbehave (which you didn't mention but you asked about other punishments). If they use a toy to hit someone for example, we put the toy in time-out. How long depends on the behavior. Sometimes the toys time-out is more traumatic than an actual time-out for the child.

Make sure with any type of discipline you use that you explain what they did wrong and what they can do to correct it.

As for tantrums, my daughter was only bested in the tantrum department by one other child. Me when I was 2. We found my mother's method of dealing with tantrums was the best. It was a time-out until the tantrum stopped. With my daughter, I would put her in her bedroom and tell her that she could come out when she was done with the tantrum. Then I would check on her every few minutes to ask if she was done. Usually when she was done, she would tell me how much she loved me and tell me she was sorry. That didn't take prompting. Since she was in a different room, the crying and screaming did not bother me and try my patience nearly as much as a child in the same room as you. It made for a happier mom while the child was allowed the time to work through the tantrum to learn how to deal with her own emotions. After a few weeks the tantrums were noticeably shorter and fewer in between. She learned to deal with her emotions better when she was having them and thus had fewer tantrums. She is 8 1/2 now. She still occasionally has a tantrum but all I have to do when she starts is to tell her it is time to go to her room and she realizes what she is doing and stops and apologizes.

Anyhow, I hope this helps. Good luck.

Hi Tracy,

This is what I did w/ my youngest daughter.

When she was 8 months she started to crawl. She would like to go from the family room to the foyer to go up the steps. Since I did not want to have gates all over my house (and other houses are not always kid friendly) I thought it was important she learn to listen when I said no. Every time she would start to crawl to the foyer I would say very kindly "oh, you want to go to your pack-n-play" which had lots of toys in it in the family room. Honestly, it only took about 2 days to teach her not to go to the steps. Not that she did not need reminding but it was so cute to see her turn herself around to come back to the family room.

Also, I think it is important to try to stop the behavior before they actually do it. As soon as you see them about to jump on the ottoman you need to react consistently and immediately. I used to tell my kids "feet on the floor."

I personally would try not to remove the ottoman since you may visit other homes where they will not remove the furniture. At 21 months they are old enough to understand "no"

(Last school year I had a Halloween party at my house where 2 9 year olds were jumping on my couch. Then later one of the girls was standing on my dining room table. Unbelievable! I couldn't believe I had to keep reminding them "feet on the floor" since my daughters learned this at ages 1-2 yrs old.

Hope this helps you. Things were certainly easier for me since I only had one child at a time. I can only imagine what it is like to have twins!

One last thought...if you let kids do what they want because you think they are too young to understand "no" imagine how confused they will be the day you decide they are old enough to understand.

As awful as getting kids to recognize what time out is, I would stick with it. Have you ever seen SupperNanny? It's all about getting them if they get up and putting them back. With two it's going to be especially hard. You might try very separate time out spots so they can't feed off each other too. It took my son about two weeks to figure out I was serious about time out and what it was for, but now we hardly have to use it. Good luck!

Hi T.,
I read the advice of the other smart mommies,and I felt the need to throw in my two cents since they were all from moms with singletons. I am also a mother of twins. They are 26 months old and I understand what you're going through. I have to agree with the mom who allows her child to learn by trial and error. My son is a daredevil and his sister will follow along after she sees he has successfully done something. With that in mind, if my little guy is climbing on something I stop what I'm doing, go over to him, look him in the eye and tell him to be careful. I explain that he could get hurt. Usually his sister tells him to be careful after I have, so he sort of gets 2 warnings. If he is successful he feels he has accomplished something, if not I pick him up, make sure he's not broken or seriously hurt, sit down with him in my arms, and explain that that was why mommy told him to be careful. He certainly thinks twice before doing something like that again. I have always been like this with them and now they sort of evaluate (for lack of a better word) things before trying them. Bottom line I have seen them think before doing certain things without my warning.
I also have to agree with the mom that gives her child a run-down of what's going to happen so that her child knows what's coming. I also do the same thing. I have never brought the kids screaming out of a toy store or anywhere for that matter. Also, if they want to or don't want to do something that's coming up they have a chance to tell me before it happens. Like if I say we're going to read a certain book my daughter will sometimes interject and make a request or ask to do something else. Often I comply if they are reasonable requests, besides I want them to learn to put their opinions out there too.
For me personally, I don't beleive in time-outs. I was raised old school. I got "the look" from one of my parents and I know I was going to get it. I learned quickly what was acceptable behavior. When my little guys are throwing fits, which doesn't happen that often, I take the time to sit with them, try to calm them down and figure out what it is that's put them in a tizzy. If they won't calm down. I let them have their fit. Soon enough they realize no one is paying attention and their efforts are useless. I hope this helps. Remember, kids are all different and what works for one child may not work for another. Best wishes!

put the ottoman away. take away the temptation

I am currently reading "The Discipline Book" by Dr. Sears. I would highly reccomend it.

My now 3 year old did similar things when he was 18 months old. We followed the example from Supernanny - the naughty seat. The process is relatively simple...
1. Issue a verbal warning paired with a reminder that if it is not followed "You will sit on the naughty seat if you don't listen".
2. If instructions are not followed, put on the naughty seat. Don't talk to the kid while on the seat. IF they get up, go and silently pick them up and put them back on the seat.
3. Set a timer for one minute for each year of age (I also add 30 second for each 6 months. Each time you must place them back on the seat, the timer gets reset to the original time.

It took me 2 days of doing basically nothing other than putting his rear on the seat, but after that, all I had to say was the one warning & then "Sit on your naughty seat."

I won't lie, it is A LOT of work upfront, but the rewards are amazing... Best wishes

You can use the corner time for this age. The first few times you might have to stand near them to keep them in it. After a few times of this they will learn that when they are told to go to the corner they have done something wrong and will go and stay!

As for the tantrums, With all four of my children, I would throw one at the same time. It would make them stop and look at me and they would start to laugh. With each of them it only took that one time they never threw another.

Hope this helps