B.P.
It certainly may be her heart. If she is not getting enough blood circulated fast enough, she can faint. There are other heart related issues that can cause this too. Blessings for her that she is healthy.
She is 10 and the first time she did it she was 3. Then again a few years later and just recently, she had done it 3 times in the last 60 days. When she did it one of these last times, she was in the bathroom and when she fell she hit her head on the toilet and got a small cut on the side of her head. Again, while she was on her bicycle. Thankfully, my husband was right there and was able to half catch her while she fell.
We always take her to urgent care and we have always been told that sometimes it just happens and basically not to worry. This last time, they did an EKG which came back normal and blood work up that also came back normal; but then they ordered an event monitor and referred us to a cardiologist.... I have a call in for her doctor to review the results from her last tests in more detail, and hopefully learn more about why they ordered the heart monitor.
Does anyone have any experience with this? I don't even know all the questions I should be asking. I started keeping a log of her activities and such so see if we can narrow it down a bit. My biggest fear is her getting hurt when she falls. Well, and now whatever it is they might be looking for with her heart. I just know that I need to do as much research and educate myself as much as possible for her. Any advice or experience you have would be greatly appreciated.
It certainly may be her heart. If she is not getting enough blood circulated fast enough, she can faint. There are other heart related issues that can cause this too. Blessings for her that she is healthy.
I enthusiastically second, third, fourth, or 100th taking her to a Children's Hosp, as soon as possible!!
Give them a call and they can set up an appointment. You don't need to figure out "who" to see before you call. Call and tell the physician finder people that work for the hospital what the problem is & that you don't know who to see. Tell them what you told us & they should be able to hook you up.
Just off the top of my head, here's what comes to mind as what COULD be wrong:
- Epilepsy
- Brain Tumor
- Spinal chord issues
- CNS/ANS nearly anything for that matter
- Blood pressure issues
- Cardiovascular defect (either in signal or in physiology)
- Anemia
- Diabetes
- Pulmonary issues (something going O2 or C02 transfer)
- Middle/Inner Ear Infection (can cause dizziness & blackouts)
- Dehydration
- etc.
- etc.
Urgent Care is like the ER...patch 'em up and send 'em home. Urgent Care RARELY sends anyone "upstairs", as it were, to be admitted or for specialized care...especially in this day of hospitals run by insurance companies. Since this has been happening for 10 years, it's obviously not a one time problem. It could be as minor as dehydration or as serious as cancer...but it is a problem. Seek help. And the BEST place to seek help will be a hospital specializing in children. As a rule they treat & accept regardless of your ability to pay...and have social workers on hand to walk you through applying for funds...if that is any issue for you.
Best of luck to you!
Hi K. -
I'm hoping that some information will ease your concerns, but it could very well do the opposite until you know something definitive, so take everything with a grain of salt... that is, make sure you don't leap to thinking your daughter DOES have something that is simply being tested for with a goal of ruling it out. There's no diagnosis until there's a diagnosis!
Having said that, as a doctor, my first thought about why they ordered a heart monitor is to figure out if she has any irregular heart rhythms that occur sporadically (that is, they don't happen to be occuring at the convenient moment to catch them during an in-offfice test). An irregular heart rhythm could cause an irregularity in blood flow in general, which could result in irregular flow to the brain, which maybe possibly could result in random fainting episodes. If they're referring to a cardiologist, I would suspect that the cardiologist may consider a cardiac ultrasound, which gives something like a "visual" look at the heart, or more specifically blood flow through the heart, which could offer some information about how well the valves are working (incompetent valves could also interrupt flow to the brain). Again, please take all this gently, in the sense that doctors approach these things with the idea of trying to rule certain things in or out, and so please understand that the ordering of a test is not in and of itself a cause for worry; it simply represents their thought process. I'm glad to hear you feel comfortable to call your doctor and ask questions; very often when something new and surprising is underway, the questions don't occur to us until later!
When they drew blood, they were probably looking at blood sugar, as very low blood sugar could cause fainting; if they said the bloodwork was fine, I suspect that that is not occurring. Probably they were verifying that electrolytes (sodium, potassium, etc.) were in balance. I imagine they also questioned you about hydration status, yes? ...As dehydration also compromises blood flow.
If those areas were not yet yielding information, I would personally be wondering whether they're looking at ruling out the possibility of seizure activity.
Sometimes a clear diagnosis cannot be found, but please know that naturopathic doctors are trained to look at not only treating a disease that's been found - that is, doctors should be able to say, OK, we don't know everything, but we do know ways to restore the basis for good health. You can get help looking at basic determinants of health (quality of diet, exercise, sleep, water, sunlight, etc.), and making sure they're in order, and sometimes righting any imbalances found there can help a body restore balance and harmony, even if what was out balance was never quite figured out. You can find a referral to a naturopathic physician near you at www.naturopathic.org, or you can email me back privately, and I can tell you if I know anyone in your area.
Good luck, and many blessings,
D.
One reason for fainting is low blood pressure (like really low), they might just want to rule out all possibilities. Heart monitors are non-invasive, and there are a couple of common types. One is for 24 hours, and another for longer duration. It sounds like they need to use a longer duration monitor, since her episodes are intermittent.
EKG's only show what is happening at the moment, so it is very short term. The monitor will show what is happening during her activities.
Hope all works out well and it isn't anything too serious.
Good luck to you and your family.
D.
One can't diagnose after reading one email however, please consider seeing a neurologist. An autonomic nervous system that is not in proper balance can manifest in many ways. If this is indeed "fainting," an imbalanced ANS could be at the bottom of it. I recommend a complete system by system examination. Even a low blood sugar could precipitate an event.
I recommend keeping a diary. This should help to trace precipitating events and help to guide a doctor to a proper diagnosis.
Chris RN
I used to have extremely low blood pressure (my favorite time was when an intake nurse, taking my blood pressure for a random routine doctor visit, paused ... and said, "well, you seeem to be alive, so I guess this is OK"--thank goodness I was in my 20s and well aware of my bp issues, so I knew it was a joke ;) ).
There is a weird reflex (it has a name but I've forgotten it) where if I held my arm straight up above my head, and especially if I bent my elbow while I have my arm straight up (say, if I was brushing my hair), the world would go black and starry and I would start to collapse at the knees. I never actually fainted, but sometimes I would have to sit down quickly (bringing my brain back to the height where my blood was, was all I could ever figure).
Anyhow, what a bizarre reflex. Thought I'd offer it, in case your solution is that simple.
(I haven't had that problem for a few years. Either one of the pregnancies rebalanced my systems, or I've finally eaten enough saturated fat to harden my arteries a bit ;). )
Best of luck. Freaky, the fainting. Actually, the other thing I can offer is that I didn't have the low bp problems as a kid, until I was about 8 or 9 (when the migraines started tapering off ... am I a subconscious medical drama queen?!?) ... definitely worst as a teenager. So that would be something like the increasing pattern you are seeing.
Dear K.,
I have no experience with this, but I just want to support and encourage you to PERSIST in search of an answer. Ruling out seizures or narcolepsy. You will all feel so much better once you get the help you need.
Good Luck,
Mary
Hi K.,
In my early 20s, I was diagnosed with a fainting disorder: neurocardiogenic syncope. I don't remember all of the medical details with much clarity but here's the gist of it... Certain factors would combine to stress my system (e.g. not eating recently AND being too hot AND being too tired AND being in and emotional situation AND smelling something odd). My brain (the "neuro" part) didn't regulate my blood pressure (the "cardio" part) correctly so blood would pool in my legs and not flow to my brain. I would faint (the "syncope" part). When I was conscious again, I felt like I had been sleeping and was very disoriented.
I fainted once at the hospital while visiting a sick relative. By the time I was revived and taken to the ER, my blood pressure, heart rate, EKG and MANY other tests that they ran were normal. I was told to visit my family doctor the next day.
My family doctor referred me for a tilt table test for this disorder. I wasn't allowed to eat or drink for a certain period of time before the test. I was strapped to a table, and the table was tilted into a standing position. The doctor monitored my heart rate and blood pressure (I don't remember what else). When I started feeling faint, he lowered me back to a laying-down position. Unpleasant but not scary. The readings he took during the test pointed to the neurocardiogenic syncope.
I remember my doctor telling me that there were a few possible treatments for the disorder. We ended up using an anti-depressant to treat it, but I remember that there were several other ways. More importantly, however, I learned what my triggers were and how I felt BEFORE I fainted.
Other responders have suggested that your daughter put her head between her knees if she feels faint. That never worked for me because my blood pooled in my legs. I had to lie flat on my back and lift my legs in the air to stop the spell. I would actually feel the blood rush back to my head, and the faintness would disappear!
I seem to remember my doctor telling me that the disorder usually appeared in adolescence and that I would grow out of it. I stopped taking my medication after a few years when my husband and I started trying for our first baby. I've only had one episode since then, and it's been over two years, and I wasn't paying attention to the signals my body was sending me.
God bless you and your daughter. I know that this is a scary thing have happen. I hope this story helps a little.
K. - Are you taking her to Urgent Care in your area, or do you take her to CHildren's Hospital? I didn't look to see where you are located, but I know that Tacoma has a Children's (Mary something) and Seattle (which is where I went and they saved my son's life). I would recommend going somewhere where they specialize in children.
I do not think it is normal for a child to be fainting and I would ABSOLUTELY be worried. What a bunch of numbnuts! Something is going on whether it be low blood pressure, a sickness (cross your fingers) or something else that needs immediate attention.
The great thing about Children's is that you can ask ANY question and they will answer. They don't look at you like you are crazy, they understand how much your child means to you and they are so so so so patient with you and your kid.
Good Luck, L.
I am NOT a doctor but I would think it would be a seizure that is happening when that happens. Just what it sounds like. MAKE someone do something... I have learned and not in a fun way that if you don't bully the doctors then they won't do anything. YOU have to demand that they figure it out.
Good luck I am praying for you!
K.,
Sounds like it could be low blood pressure. Do you know what hers is? I have extrememly low blood pressure (typically 85/55 area) and have struggled with being light headed and fainting. I had test done and seen a specialist but nothing is wrong or at least they cannot find anything. I am just really aware of it. I need to limit some of my physical activities.
After sitting for a while, be sure she stands up slowly and gets the blood flowing to her limbs again before she just takes off running. If my heartrate gets too high or am doing high energy aerobics, I need to step it down a notch or I will faint.
How much salt does she have in her diet? They say I could be dehydrated, but I drink lots of water. They say salt will help me retain the water. I hate salt, but try to eat some in my diet, typically through a frozen meal or soup.
Hope some of this helps. I wish there was a magically answer.
M.
Hi K.,
When I was younger I had a similar problem. My parents kept taking me to the ER, they couldn't find anything. Went to two other specialists before visiting a neurologist. We found that I suffured from basilar migrain headaches, where basically the blood cells would swell in the base of the had and slow the blood to the brain, causing a blackout or fainting. I am not saying that this is what she has, but no matter what it is, I know how scary it can be. Ask her if she hears ringing or rushing water in her ears before she faints. Does it happen when she gets out of a hot shower or when she stands up too fast? I was given some tools that may help. When I could feel it coming on I was told to go into a strong standing squat position with my hands on my knees, and try to find something for the eyes to focus on. It can make it worse if you go strait to the floor, (it is too much for the head to drop that far so quickly). This tactic has saved me from many faintings. In the event that she does faint/blackout, try to find something cool for her head and neck, like a cold wash cloth ( my mom would grab frozen veggis in a pinch)and then keep talking to her. It will help to bring her out faster. When she takes a hot shower, try to keep a door or window cracked open for fresh air and at the end of the shower cool the water gradually so that her body temp doesn't drop too fast. I haven't fainted for over 8yrs now, so maybe it is something that will pass in time for her as well. I hope that this will help. My heart goes out for you all. Hang in there! :)
K.,
I have a prolapsed mitral valve which is when one of the valves in the heart doesn't shut tight. It is a pretty common problem (sometimes called a heart murmur) and is usually not serious but it can cause fainting in some people. I have had trouble with fainting throughout my life. I started having trouble around 11 or 12 years old. An Echocardiogram is used to look for this so ask about this test as well as the monitor (if it hasn't already been done). My cardiologist said that good hydration is even more important for people with this condition so you can make sure she's well hydrated as a precaution until you get better advice from your doctor.
I wish you all the best and hope it is something as simple as I described.
Take care,
C.
Definitely see a pediatric neurologist. It could even be a seizure disorder. You need to get to the bottom of this so don't give up! Good luck!
I know she's only 10 and you said this has happened when she was younger, but I was just wondering, is she menstruating? It could be anemia.
I used to get dizzy spells a lot. When it came down to actually fainting (which only happened one time to my recollection) or having everything go dark (which happened a lot), any time I was seen for it, they monitored my heart rate and blood pressure while lying down, sitting, and standing. Basically, the gist of it was that I have to be careful when I start feeling like that because my blood pressure apparently drops below an ok level, which causes the dizzy spells. I have learned things to do that will help them, such as making sure I have eaten enough recently and making sure i have had enough water. They are probably just taking precaution with the heart monitor. It can tell them a lot if her heart rate or blood pressure changes before an episode. There are so many things that can cause fainting, that they are just trying to rule things out.
I would be monitoring her blood pressure at home. Make skure she's keeping hydrated. When she wakes up does she complain of a headache or did she remember having a headache before passing out? I would ask to see a neurologist and run a neuro exam. It could be petite mal seizures. Fainting for the sake of fainting is not normal. Fainting in a bathroom could be fatal if she hit her head on the edge of the tub, sink or toilet. If she were in a bathtub full of water. Not a good thing. Get her checked out. Be persistent until she is seen. As they are getting more frequent, something is changing internally to her. Best of luck!
I don't have experience with kids but I have had problems fainting as an adult. First, my blood pressure was checked, lying down, sitting and standing. They said it was fine in all positions. They did an EKG and ECG and I had a heart monitor for 30 days. Everything was fine but the doctors admitted that getting head rushes every time I stood up or changed positions was not normal. The cardiologist finally suggested that I have floppy veins - just require more hydration than most. He recommended eating more salt and drinking a lot of water. I've done this and added Gatorade to my daily habits and it really seems to have made a difference. The cardiologist was apologetic that he didn't have a better answer or a pill to solve my problem but I was relieved to have something so simple within my own power to fix it. I hope that is the case for your daughter too.
Hello K.,
This must be a scary experience for you. I don't have any personal experience with fainting, but I have vertigo and lightheadness. I have my experience with heart problems (Aortic Valve Replacement - Open Heart Surgery - at the age of 36) and one of the reasons they are looking at her heart is because it is her blood flow to the brain that MAY be causing her to faint - not enough oxygen being carried. My vertigo is caused by too much ear wax build up and one little hair that falls over due to wax in my ear and it make my brain think we are moving. If I keep my ears clean I have it less vertigo less. Not sure why I still get lightheaded.
My friends 7 year daughter has fainted multiple times and they tested her for everything, including a brian scan. They still don't know why she faints. I'll double check with my friend and if she has any new info I'll email you back.
If you can go with Children's Hospital - I would - they are excellent.
Positively,
M.
I use to experience this problem. It took over a dozen doctors and almost a year to determine that the problems causing this were simple. 1) I had extremely low blood pressure which caused the fainting 2) I also had low blood sugar issues which didn't help matters any. You might need to ask them to check her blood sugar and blood pressure (both while sitting and standing).
Hi K.; How scary for you & your family. I was wondering if she's ever had an EEG, a test to rule out a seizure disorder?
Hi K.,
I know you've got a lot of responses already but I just wanted to wish you luck.
It seriously could be anything from not enough fluid to early puberty to a medical problem.
We found out with my now 25 mo old that he has convulsive syncope which is just a fancy term for the fact that he is a fainter that will go into seizure like convulsions if he is moved or moves himself too soon after the faint. They have done CT's, and the test that monitors his brain for seizures and all have come back normal. They can't explain why he even had 2 unexplained seizures, when he was really little, that didn't show to be what they call classic seizures. We just try to watch him closely and catch him if he looks like he is going to fall or walk into something. The only problem we have is that going from a warm place to a cold place can trigger it, sort of like blowing in a baby's face and they lose their breath. He hasn't fainted in a few months so we are hoping that he is growing out of it even though his ped. neuro. says most people don't grow out of his kind, that they just have less episodes with time.
Again good luck!
T.
I'm a "fainter" myself, although I think the first time I fainted was in third grade. Mine seems to be a combination of low blood pressure (which I have all the time) and another external factor. A couple of times I locked my knees, a couple of other times it was right after getting a shot or blood taken, and some other times had to do with eating (or not eating, rather). As she gets older, your daughter might be able to feel it coming on. Coach her on what to do if she starts to feel faint, like finding a place to sit down with her head between her knees and breathing slowly. Good luck with the heart doctor. Hopefully he or she can help you figure out what's going on with your daughter.
W.
make sure they check for everything including epilepsy and hormone levels. my friends daughter started doing the same type of thing at about 10 and is now 12 and doctors have not been able to pinpoint exactly why but did push for it too be watched. they are leaning/hoping its hormonal changes and that she will outgrow it. Good luck!!
I am sure you have already done this, but the most important clue would be asking your daughter what she feels just prior to fainting. Does she feel light-headed, does her vision change, does her heart race, etc... I had SVT when I was younger and it caused me to faint.
I worked at a heart monitoring company with event monitors. It sounds like it won't help much though because the events are too far and few between. In order to be helpful, she needs to be wearing it when she faints. Also, there are two kinds. One that runs continuously for 24-48 hrs, and one that you start recording when symptoms begin. You would need the first one so you can see what her heart does prior to fainting.
Take comfort in the fact that fainting usually acts as a "reset button". Whatever the problem is, is usually reset once she is unconscious.
The best way to prevent injury from the fall is to help your daughter learn to recognize the symptoms leading up to fainting. Coach her to pay close attention to small vision changes, sweating, a hot flash, chest pressure, tingling in her limbs, etc.
I have experience with this "anomaly" as I experienced this from about the age of three to eight years old. They discovered it was a "reaction" of sorts..or that is what they theorized anyway, as they actually put me in the hospital for several days to try and figure it out. This was over 30 years ago when it started, but I did grow out of it. It only happened to me under moments of stress..."high pressure" situations..like when I was in trouble for something...or when something scared me suddenly..it could happen. They even thought for awhile I was just holding my breath too long or something. Turns out, it was just my brain wasn't used to the adrenaline burst or whatever the chemical is...that causes it..or perhaps there isn't enough of it even..these things were all sort of thrown around as possibilities for me. It is possible that she will grow out of it eventually. One thing..I had a problem with "pain reception" as well..as in from about the age of three til nearly 18 (actually I don't remember much in the way of pain past the birth of my first child...that I remember being painful..but I still have a fairly high tolerance). am wondering if she has had a high tolerance level for pain in the past as well. That might be useful in discovering the root cause..as this is something I experienced that lasted in the same time frame. Hopefully it is simply something she can grow out of...good luck! Feel free to pm me and I will explain further if you have questions on what I wrote.
She might have really low blood pressure sometimes. But don't predict that bad things will happen to your daughter. Live in the present and love every moment you have with each lovely girl.
Sounds like it could be a form of narcolepsy where they fall asleep in the middle of an activity. I don't know for sure, but I just saw a special on tv (thus the reason I might be thinking along that line?) anyway what is she doing right before fainting? Does she come right back around or stay out for a few minutes? I wouldn't settle for the not to worry theory from a doctor. I would want to know.
Good for you, K.- you're doing all the right things- and the activity diary sounds excellent. You might keep it on a calendar--- any possibility your lamb is getting close to puberty??? I had a cousin who had episodes like that - got worse as she went into puberty- and then smoothed out. Any chance her blood sugar is low?? Hypoglycemia??? -- the next time it happens - have some orange juice handy and see if that makes her feel better fast. If it turns out to be a ''sugar'' related issue ( does she have more episodes when she hasn't eaten for a while???) -- keep mini-marshmallows handy- as they dissolve into the bloodstream - FAST.
You'll find out - and you're in my prayers-
Blessings,
Old Mom
aka- J.
Hi K. - Just because they can't find something yet does not mean there is nothing going on. You are smart for wanting to find out what is happening. I think the urgent care dr who told you that it "sometimes just happens & not to worry" is dead wrong. Keeping a journal of her foods & activity is a good step that will help a specialist (even a large university based clinic) find out the cause or at least narrow it down. Make sure you go back through your calendar & her medical records and write up a summary for what ever dr you see next so it will help them see the entire picture. I would ask your primary dr for a referral to not only a heart specialist but maybe a neurologist, check out Children's Hospitals since they are very in tune with kids. There may be something going on with blood vessels in her neck & head. Maybe one of them is getting pinched when she moves a specific way. There could be many other things but you are taking the right step to find out what is causing your daughters problems. Because if these fainting spells continue into her teens & adult years she may loose any driving privileges due to her safety and those around her.
One thing to make sure of when school starts again is to inform (in writing as well as verbal - put this in your journal) the teachers & nurse at her school about this issue and your concern for her safety. Then make sure you follow up with the school after the dr sees her so they know how to help her with safety at school. It may seem trivial to put it in writing but that is the best way so you have it on record that you did inform them of your concern and that you will be following up with them as soon as you know more. Plus you might find one of the staff may have some insight or other ideas to follow. Take care!