Nanny Drove the Kids with No Car Seat!

Personally I would fire her in the spot. I would be livid if anyone did that with my 4 year old who is in a 5 pt harness booster.

I'd fire her on the spot - I don't want someone who feels they are unfairly being fired around my kids for another two weeks. She clearly showed bad judgment once - that's enough for me.

But honestly, don't obsess about the "might have happened"s. We all rode without car seats and were fine.

Just for some perspective, most school buses don't have seat belts. At least not around here.I always thought this was weird since there are so many kids in each bus, all unbelted. My son takes the city bus to school and there are no seatbelts in those vehicles either.

My friend fired her Nanny on the spot for this AND reported her to the agency she came through.

And it has NOTHING to do whith how long or dangerous the way to school is. Deadly accidents can and do happen on residential streets just minutes from people's homes.
A private car is NOT a school bus. Not only is a school bus constructed differently, there are also laws for school buses (no passing for example) that reduce the likelihood for accidents.

To me this is no different from any other employee exhibiting severe negligence at any other job. You gave her specific instructions on how to transport your children, she had access to your car and the children's car seats. She CHOSE to neglect the safety of your children for perfectly selfish reasons, she knows when she works for you and can schedule appointments so they don't conflict with the responsibilities that you are paying her for.

What would your boss do if you so much as risked the company's bottom line (not even mentioning a child's life) by acting against company policy for your own convenience?

I would not be able to entrust this nanny with my kids any more.

ETA: OMG I cannot believe how many people say that its because "car seats are a new thing"! REALLY??!!! I am almost 40 and I was restrained in a car seat when I was a kid.... car seats are NOT a new invention.

Um, I'll just say this:
If it was my kid, I'd be livid. Fired. On the spot.
Part of being a nanny (and I was, for years) is to be a substitute parent to a degree; that is, I have to care for your kids like they were my own. Even if it means the inconvenience of driving back to the house and switching cars. Because I would never let my own six year old, much less a 3 year old, go out in a car without proper carseats.

If she has a valid drivers license, then she knows the law. She was also willing to have your kids break what I am sure is a house rule for her own convenience.

She used an excuse for her laziness, Trish. If you allow it, she will do it again. It might not be the car, it might be something different which will still cause a problem.

As mothers, we hire our care providers with the faith that they have good, sound judgment and will use it to protect our children, even at the cost of inconvenience. If it were me, I'd be dropping by her house and giving her a check for hours, getting the key back and figuring things out from there. No two weeks notice. This was not a 'rookie mistake' like letting the kids eat food in their room or something equally harmless. This was her deciding the risk to break the law, the risk to put your kids in harm's way was worth it so she simply wouldn't have to be bothered. It's horrible to have to fire someone who works for you, but SHE did this, not you.

ETA: to the people who suggest a school bus is safe without seatbelts... are we really going there? A HUGE, IMPOSSIBLE TO MISS BIG YELLOW SCHOOL BUS is far safer-- an empty bus is 16,000 lbs whereas a minivan is 4,000 lbs. There are so many other factors besides the sheer size, weight and visibility of the bus which make it the safer way to travel. This is not a reasonable comparison.

And yes, Trish, check your contract. I guess I didn't know that so many people feel carseats are still a gray area. It's pretty black and white for me. People say we rode without them and were fine... and that's true, because the children who died in car accidents due to lack of a carseat are not on Mamapedia-- they are dead.

WHAT.

I am one to give people the benefit of the doubt. I can overlook many mistakes, if a nanny has been really great, and doesn't routinely do stupid things. This is NOT one thing I could overlook. I would not give her notice, unless that is in your contract. You are not required to give her notice. I would fire on the spot and get my keys. I would give notice to someone who deserves it, which would probably be most people. This lady, no. She did something beyond stupid, and notice is not a courtesy I would extend. She clearly cares more about her schedule, then the safety of your children. Kick her to the curb.

I don't care if it's ONE block away. You PAY HER to do as job. You PAY HER to keep your children safe and for your children to be the priority while she is on the clock. She didn't do that. A responsible nanny would have approached you about her meeting and worked out something, that can accommodate her. She did not. She IS NOT responsible. She is selfish and shouldn't be taking care of your kids.

I think some people are focusing too much on the lack of a carseat.

While I agree carseats are very important, to me it really isn't about that. She put her scheduling needs in front of the safety of your kids. She could have asked you about what to do prior and the fact that your six year old told you is unacceptable.

I'm in the camp that thinks one short trip without a carseat isn't the end of the world but I am the only one (besides my husband) who should ever make that decision. This incident just makes her look very irresponsible.

I am trying to imagine ANY situation where I would drive another person's kid in my car not properly restrained. I can't think of one. "I had a meeting" sure isn't top of the list!

She put you children in a possible harms way situation. I would fire her pronto. There is NEVER a reason to drive with the children unrestrained. I would ask for your keys, tell her how unprofessional she was. And also let her know you will not be comfortable being used as a reference in future jobs. I care for kids as well, if one of my kids gets sick at school and I don't have enough car seats to pick up my kids. I call a Taxi to bring my children home ( they are teens). She knew about this appt. prior to picking your children up. She could have discussed this with you first. Maybe come up with an agreement, put your seats in her car or used your car for the apt. and the come straight back. She was careless and self centered. Not someone who should be in trusted with children.

I'd fire her, on the spot, no notice, no severance pay, all keys returned immediately.
That was dangerous, irresponsible, against what you've asked of her and inexcusable.
I wouldn't trust her to watch my children for another minute, let alone another 2 weeks!

Really? You'd fire a nanny who has given you good service for this mistake? Your children were in very little, if any, danger. How often have you even heard of children being in an accident on the way to school? Never, I'd bet. This is the first generation to even have car seats.

Tell her it's not to happen again and let it go. This was not a serious mistake even, let alone a life threatening one.

She would be looking for another job if she worked for me. Safety is NON-NEGOTIABLE. I don't know if you have a written agreement with her, but I would go by that. I would let her go immediately and let her know exactly why. Up to you if you think she deserves any type of severance whatsoever...depending on a written agreement of course. I would also not write a letter of recommendation for her either...she has BAD judgment.

If you are not satisfied with her response, then give her notice. Whatever is in the contract. If she had to run to a meeting, would she not be back in time to pick them up from school? What are her hours with you? Was there any reason not to just keep the seats in the car?

No, you are not overreacting. A child should be properly restrained. If she can't do that, then she can't drive them and if you need someone to drive them, then you need a new nanny. Did she really think the kids wouldn't notice or say something? What other corners is she cutting for her own benefit?

My DH (as a single dad) hired an au pair he later found out had a son she didn't have custody of because her family thought she was irresponsible! No surprise he fired her in 3 months. Trust your gut.

ETA: Many accidents happen with in a mile from your own house. Going to school can mean dodging school buses and people in a hurry. The location is NO EXCUSE for putting kids in the car without seats, especially if this parent uses boosters with harnesses. Just because WE didn't die doesn't mean what we or our parents did was safe. Used to be you'd just go flying through the windshield or be impaled on a very large and pointy steering wheel. What was allowed years ago is no basis for what this parent can't get upset over today. She hired a woman for a job that included the expectation that she would have her children driven to school in the seats she provided. The nanny has not done this. I do not feel this is a minor thing.

One of the reasons DH fired his old au pair was because we heard from another parent that the au pair, while physically walking SD to school (she did not drive), was not doing anything else. Not keeping her from running through the lot, not holding her hand or keeping track of her while crossing the street. So she did what we told her - walked SD to school - but HOW was entirely unacceptable.

School buses are also very large, and the seats are as tall as they are to try to prevent a child from flying over it. They are intended for the child to hit the seat kind of like an airbag. That is not the same as being in a sedan with no belt or inadequate restraints.

And it still boils down to -this mother is not happy. She did not feel her children were safe. That is something she can fire a nanny over.

No, you're not overreacting. If she'd pull this stunt, goodness knows what else she has done that she hasn't told you about.

You won't like my answer, but I'll give it to you anyway. You need to find an short term alternative and let her go now and just pay her two weeks severence. No notice. The last thing I would do is give someone who knows they are being fired two weeks alone with my children. I'd change the locks on my house too.

Why the severence? So that she doesn't try to do something hateful or spiteful. You can't really give her a good letter of recommendation. You really can't.

There is no requirement to give a nanny (or anyone else, actually) two week's notice unless it's spelled out in the employment contract. In this case I'd terminate her immediately and with no notice. She basically put her own schedule ahead of your children's safety.

If she's been with you a long time and you feel you owe her notice, then I'd provide her with one week's salary. But I would not allow her access to my children or house again.

You do not have to give her any notice when terminating her services. If she had not done anything wrong, I would say a couple weeks notice or severance pay would be in order, but given the situation, no.

To me, it's not only that she drove without the car seats, but now there is no trust. Every time she is driving the kids, you will be wondering. And you will be asking your daughter because you can't trust the nanny.

Being a working mom is hard enough without having to worry about things like this.

I couldn't trust her after this. She showed such poor judgement. I think she has to go and I would not feel obligated to give her two weeks notice. I certainly would not want her to watch my kids after I fired her. You could pay her, depending on your contract and/or your history together though.

Fire her!
Ask for the keys right then and there.
Pay her in check for what you owe her up to now.
Who knows what else she has been doing.
Any smart inidividual would know not to do this! Ever.

Well, in Oklahoma your children wouldn't even be in full car seats anymore. Both of your kids could be in booster's and not even in a car seat.

Did she get on the highway going 70mph or just drive a few blocks in a more residential setting going 25mph?

I have had to take the kids in a pinch without car seats but not an every day thing. I think giving her warning that if she does it again she will be terminated immediately.

Question:

Where did she take the 3 year old? With her? To her meeting? Or to a pre-school program? IF he was going with her she should have taken your car with the car seats.
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AND my daughter is 34 and I never used a car seat until she started having kids. When I was a new mom we carried the baby on our shoulder when we drove down the street or laid them across the front seat. Heck, we even nursed the baby while driving if we had to.

Life was different then and car seats do make a difference now because we travel differently. Cars go faster and there are tons more of them. We have cars made of fiberglass and plastic when in the "olden" days cars were made of metal.

And yes, a bus that carries pre-K and kindergarten kids in it doesn't have car seats or seat belts on them. Yes, they are heavier and more solid but kids get killed in them almost every day.

All in all. I wouldn't fire her for this if she's been a good employee over all. If you just cannot get past this then you have no choice but to immediately terminate her. Nanny's are independent contractors. You do not have to give them any benefits or consideration.

If you hired a contractor for a job and they weren't working out you would not give them 2 weeks notice, you'd tell them it wasn't working out and to leave the premises immediately. She can't do anything to you.

I am probably in the minority here, but I am with Christy Lee. I would not fire her over this, unless she has proven to be a less than stellar employee up to this point. If I really liked her, I would make VERY clear this cannot happen and then go from there. I really would not be as upset as you over this, but that is not to say your feelings are not justified. These are your children involved. I remember sitting on my dad's lap at age 5 and steering the car, and riding in the back of trucks with the gate down as a teen. =)

I honestly think in this situation, you should let her go, despite any advice you get here to keep her (including mine!) because I am not sure you will ever be OK with this woman, and that simply isn't fair to anyone involved.

I also suggest waiting a bit, talking it over with your hubby (if there is one) and make this decision when you are calmer.

ETA: Oh, and one musn't forget sitting on the armrest while dad drives! And I turned out ok, well, sort of....

She did use seat belts right?

So would it have been ok for her to take your car to the meeting?

I think this is one of those situations that just needs some communication. She should feel comfortable enough to have called you and told you about this predicament. She probably was just doing the best she could in the situation, so now you just need to problem solve.

Let her know in the future how you want this handled.

I know at first the reaction would be to jump all over her, but since hearing the situation, it tells me she just did the best at the moment, because she did not want to disturb you.

Do you honestly think she wishes harm to your children? I cannot imagine that.

Honestly, I'd fire her just on principle. If she's willing to compromise on car seat safety, what else is she willing to compromise on? What else has she done that your 6-year-old just isn't savvy enough to tell you?

I'd fire her, but give her 1 weeks pay, rather than giving her 2 week notice.

Of course it is important for children to travel in a car seat. Car seats are a wonderful safety invention. However, one trip in car without a car seat did not actually put your children at great risk. Children are not required by law to use a car seat when travelling in a taxi. Children are not even wearing seat belts on school busses and transit busses. I doubt a single mom on mamapedia ever sat in a car seat as a child. I do believe you are overreacting. Give her a warning, and put in writing that she is from now on to use a car seat no matter what. I know many older people and people from other cultures who don't really get the whole car seat thing. Make sure she knows how important it is to you.

I'd let her know this is the only warning you'll give. Next time if happens,, you'll have to make other arrangements.
Having said that, I have, on a couple of occasions, put the kids in the car seat and, being the strung out f/t working mom of two, just completely forget to actually strap them in. On both those occasions, it was the kids said something to me as I was going down the road. I was mortified at my oversight, but I just pulled over and strapped them in. We giggled at how silly mommy is and kept on moving.
What's done is done. I'm sure she wasn't trying to put them in danger. You gave your warning, and if you are satisfied with her otherwise, give her another chance.

When my children were little and my first baby is almost twenty nine, I made sure they were buckled in and out all the time, took the baby into a gas station even if it was a footand a half inside the door because I always felt safety is so important. If she had a meeting then she should have planned better. That is life.

She risked the lives of your precious children!!! Are you kidding--you feel bad not giving her notice? How would you feel if an accident had occurred and their safety was compromised as a result?

I'd fire her right now--no notice and certainly no guilt!

I would let her go, but pay her for the two weeks.

I agree that it is unacceptable.

Presumably, since you have a nanny, you have a job. Well, let's say you make a mistake at work. And it's a serious mistake that makes you look bad, but luckily, no damage is done. How would you want to be treated? Would you want to be fired on the spot, or would you rather get a serious warning?

Well, that's pretty much your answer right there.

Have a serious talk with her. Tell her you're very concerned, and that if something like happens again, you can't have her working with your children anymore. If you're deeply concerned (as you are), then a "two strikes, you're out" response is probably ethical. Firing her on the spot is not.

a 3 year old! If you lived super close to school and the road was quiet, no one goes above 30mph, I might be able to see the 6 year old if she's tall. But a 3 year old is crazy. And where was she going? Was she on the clock when she ran to a personal meeting? How long have you had her? If a long time and this is her first lapse in judgement, that's a factor. Was she really really apologetic or acted like it wasn't that big a deal? If you haven't had her long and she was taken aback you were upset, I'd fire her on the spot. And I'm not a super saftey conscious person. She should have communicated this time conflict to you ahead of time. A better solution likely could have been worked out.

ETA: whether I give her severance or not depends on how long she's been with you and if this was any kind of emergency on her end. ie: she didn't know until last minute and was panicked versus she seems to not care. Also, firing a nanny on the spot of course puts you in a tough spot. If you can't immediately replace her and/or stay home from work, I'd bite my tongue and then let her go when I find someone else. Just keep a close eye in the meantime.

ETA2: I think what's mainly at issue is trust and judgement. How close you are to school is a factor and you don't say that. But everyone knows kids are to be in car seats, especially a 3 year old. That's not a booster age. That's still LATCH. It's not for the nanny to say "well, how often are kids in an accident on the way to school?" I don't see this as a mistake which we all make. I see this as a conscious decision that put kids in some danger - probably a small amount but still. I'd want to understand her mindset and way of thinking. In my experiences, good nannies are MORE careful than the actual mothers. So you need to take into account lots of factors when you make your decision.

I'd fire her too. I'm sure she knew better. If she had a meeting right after, she could've spoken with you about taking your car to it or putting the seats in her car and returning them later.

I'd fire on the spot.

Review your contract re: rights upon termination.

If it allows, I think in lieu of 2 weeks notice, you could do immediate termination and two weeks severance. She's in the same boat financially, and honor is satisfied.

Sorry you experienced this. I understand how this would stand to erode the trust.

good luck to you and yours,
F. B.

PS-
think about how you will handle this with your kids. you don't want them feeling guilty for her termination, you want to keep the doors of communication open.

A firm warning would be given, but if it happened again she would be fired on the spot. Why did she not take the car seats out of your car and put them in hers? Is that something she is not allowed to do? You definitely need to let her know how much this bothers you. I have had friends who are nannies that have been put on a probational period for something the parents were upset about. I will admit that after that it seemed that they were just looking for a reason to fire her. I'm really torn on what I would do because it sounds like this is her first mishap. I'm a believer in giving people second chances. You know her and how she is with your kids, and I think you know it was not her intention to put your kids in danger. If she is not a mom she does not understand why it is such a big deal for kids to be in car seats at all times. If this is a breach of your contract then your only choice would be to fire her. You need to do what you feel is right for you and your family. You just want to make sure your daughter does not feel guilty if she is fired. If they are close that could really upset your daughter knowing that she told you and then you fired the nanny. As for two weeks notice that would also depend on what is in your contract.

I'm not reading all of the answers, but here's what I would do.

I'd be very unhappy that the three year old was not in a car seat, and less then pleased with the 6 year old.

How is she as a nanny otherwise. She screwed up, granted, but I see room for negotiation here. This isn't end of the world earth shattering to me.

In the future if she has a meeting that follows taking the kids to school, can she just drive your car, and when done bring it back? That way she doesn't have to feel like that was her only option.

As for notice.....yes, two weeks. You'll still have to pay her for it no matter what.

Immediate dismissal, no compensation. There would've been no mercy from a police officer had she gotten pulled over.

She showed no remorse for her error in judgement, and just based on that, I couldn't have her in my employ one day longer.

And just FYI, my son was in a 5-point harness until he was almost 6. He's now almost 7, and I still feel uncomfortable with the booster seat sometimes. My decision was based on his maturity and knowing that he would sit in his seat responsibly.

As for transporting other kids with not enough seats, my son's friend comes over to play sometimes, and I have her use my son's seat when we take her home. I would never transport someone else's child without a proper seat!

I think whether you are overreacting or not depends on how far away school is.

I mean, child safety is no joke. But if the school is down the street, or around the corner, and one never has to drive more then 25 mph or cross busy intersections to get there, I might cut some slack. Especially after having the stern talk and making disapproval clear, I'd definitely give another chance.

But if it's a more serious drive, on busy streets, or (gasp) the FREEWAY, I would see that as a serious red-flag in judgement. And at that point it would depend on how much you like her, if there are other red flags, and if you for some reason feel that she wouldn't take your admonishment seriously enough and would take the same risk again.

If you decide this is a dealbreaker, I'd tell her on a Friday afternoon.

even some people don't see why carseats are so important - the point is, YOU are their mother and YOU told her she is to have the kids in the carseat. You're paying her, she needs to do what you ask her to do. Period.

My answer would be based on two things: was she at all remorseful and will she take this out on your 6yr old that ratted her out.

If there was no remorse/apology, then I would let her go (she must obey your rules, whether or not she agrees with them)

Secondly is if you think she will be upset with your daughter & show it to her, then she must go.

Let us know what you do.

A friend of mine did that.. her car broke down.. and so she had her hubs car. her car is a van.. plenty of room.. her hubs car is a sedan.. and she had 5 kids to transport.. so my son rode in the front seat with no car seat..

I was not happy.. but I was not mad enough to end a friendship..

I would fire her, give her some kind of notice (be humane) but you are absolutely right, do NOT have around your kids after you give notice. But let me just ask, how is she as a nanny otherwise?

I think putting a child in danger is terrible, and they are not HER kids, they are someone else's so she should be double careful with someone else's kids.

Still, I don't know that not having kids in a car seat is the most dangerous thing ever. Accidents happen even close to home, but I think 6 and 3 not in a carseat is not as bad as maybe 2 and 5.

I would be more concerned that she didn't tell you and you had to hear it from your kids. What else has she done that you don't know about? THAT is what is concerning to me.

Whether you fire her depends on how good a job she has done and how much trust you have left for her. That's something only you can answer.

I would give her a warning. But, she will be upset at your daughter for tattling on her. Tell your daughter to speak up on the spot whenever she is in anyone's car and no seat belt is used.

How long has she been your nanny? You don't say. That is important. If she is brand new, I might give her ONE more chance after a sit-down and very serious talk that makes clear her job is very much at stake and no "I have to get to a meeting" is adequate excuse. If she has been your nanny for a while and already knows that you expect 100 percent car set use - I would tell her you are giving her two weeks' notice. Or you could look at it another way and try asking her frankly if she has done this before and that an honest answer MIGHT save her job. If she says yes, I've done it before, put her on notice that you will find a way to spot-check unexpectedly and she is fired on the spot, no notice, if it ever happens again.

I would be looking for a new nanny. What other corners is she willing to cut if she'd drive the children without their car seats?

I probably would let her go immediately but pay her at least one week pay.

You either find a way to trust her again and keep her, or you get a new nanny. Whatever will keep your kids safe and help you sleep at night.