Need Help with Bedtime Blues

Hi E.-

I had trouble getting my daughter to sleep. Try not giving her sugar (including juice, fake sugars) can all make them hyper. I also learned Reiki to help get her to sleep. (I don't need to do that now.) It's a healing arts done with the hands. Try also getting her to swim - that tires them out.

Good luck and hope you get some sleep!

J.

BEST BOOK on the sleep subject according to experienced Mom-friends of mine and recommended reading list from exceptional parenting class I took recently:

Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, A step-by-step program for a good night's sleep,
by Marc Weissbluth, MD.

JUST last night I made a "bedtime chart" for my son. Each night that he gets in bed, WITHOUT crying, whining, kicking, screaming, etc, he gets a sticker on the chart. After all the days are filled with a sticker, (10 days) he'll get a small prize for being a big boy at bedtime. Then I'll make another chart with 15 days, then 20... his prize will probably be an outing to Chuck E. Cheese b/c $5 goes a long way for a three-year old there :) good luck!

E.,
I am a mother of 4 year old daughter and 33 month old son. My children are 14 months apart. Oh how my husband and I both relate to your challenge above. My daughter was the exact same way from birth and continued through age 3 - 3.5. There were also various other signs with my daughter such as always wanting something in her mouth. Social challenges with other children and adults. Most people would have classified her as being shy. We were also having difficulty with transition periods. She would do pretty well in day care and would come home and run wild. We had tried routine, structure, etc. And would fail. Finally, she had a tantrum that sent me over the edge and asking other moms for help. 2 dear friends advised me to speak with Child and Family Development for an evaluation. Boy what an eye opener. We discovered my daughter had sensory integration disorder. Which basically a sensory overload in the neurological aspect of her brain. In the baby books - when my daugther was 2 months old - gave some suggestions that children who don't sleep well may later be diagnosed with SID, ADD, ADHD, etc. Well I was in complete denial. I am open with the pediatric doctor and if there's a problem - the doctor will tell me. SID is very difficult to identify and our medical community knows very little about it. The psychologist had great wisdom and insight to empower us as parents and to change our lives. I also had my son evaluated and he also has various forms of SID. Both of my children have been undergoing therapy since Jan. 2008. Our lives have changed for the better. My husband and I feel like we have two happy children who can adapt and grow in their environment. We have been very agressive with the treatments - No drugs! We are parent advocates for the children, parents, and helping to educate our community.
Good luck!
C.

Girlfriend, you have to be absolutely exhausted! And i know you need that time with your hubby! We all do and its healthy! Have you ever heard of the book The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems by Tracey Hogg! Sleep is a taught thing! It is the best gift you can give your child and is usually overlooked! You have to train them at a young age to put themselves to sleep, which is hard work on the front end, but pays off in the end! anyway, She gives you techniques in helping you problem solve with your children. This book is great to if you plan on having any more children! Chapter seven in this book talks about sleep problems after the first year! Another great book is Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby by Marc Weissbluth, M.D. He goes into more detail because he is a pediatrician and sleep specialist. But, she gives you great tech. to back up what he says. She does not believe in letting your baby cry it out, but he gives you studys and theories that back up crying it out or not (extinction). You'll have to read up and study both books and be consistent with whatever method you decide to use! Consistency is key! I don't think people realize the bad habits that come from accidental parenting, which is doing whatever to shut your child up! Always, start as you mean to go about, so you don't have to break bad habits later! And it will be hard work now because she is older, but it will work! Uncorrected sleep habits do not always go away when children get older! Thats why they say correct them when they are babies, start them when they are young! But read and study and see for yourself! I could write a novel on this, but why do that when you could read it for yourself and be educated! If you need any help or have any ques. write me back! You will need a support system! I have a ton of friends who all did the same thing and we could call eachother and talk things over. I'm working with my sister n law now and her three week old baby! Good Luck if i dont hear from you! I hope you find the success i did from educating yourself from these books! Children have become my new passion! Again, it will be hard work and probably involve crying and you being exhausted. But remember, your exhaustion will end and you and your hubby will become well rested along with your daughter! You are giving her what she needs even though it seems like your not! But, isn't that parenthood! Saying no when we know whats best for our sweet babies! If money is tight, get these books used on amazon.com. If your desperate now, go buy them! Happy Sleeping!

WOW...you and your hubby MUST be tired! I can't imagine going that long without a full night's sleep. This is obviously just a habit your daughter is going to have to break. She doesn't NEED anything (like an infant may need food). You are going to have to choose a method and stick to your guns about it...which will mean several really hard evenings/nights. I think the setting the timer idea is great. Expect a total meltdown when it rings, though. Then take her to her room, tell her this is what four year olds do, and tell her not to get out. (We even told our son that if he couldn't stay in his big-kid bed, then we were putting the crib back up...that totally did it for him). If she does get out (which of course, she will) turn her right back around and march her back to her bed. Don't make "conversation", just say "Big girls sleep in their own room". I would suggest starting this on a Thurs. or Fri. night, because it will take several nights of you getting back up and sticking her back in her bed. I promise it will work if you stay firm and let her know that you "mean business". Seriously girl, you need some sleep!!! And your sweet four-year-old needs more sleep than she is getting too! Good luck!!! Stay strong!

One thing we did with our son was put a digital clock in his room at about that age. He was told what numbers to look for on the clock before he could get up. You have to allow for bathroom breaks and such overnight, of course, but it worked to teach him to go back to bed instead of waking us up every time he woke up. When he did come in our room, we'd tell him the clock wasn't the right time yet and walk him back to bed (when he got bigger we'd just send him) and the problem decreased a lot. We used this trick for naptimes too. He wouldn't sleep very often, but learned he had to stay in his room for so long.

One warning though -- this did create a side effect. He's 8 now and a clockwatcher. It's not too much of a problem since he's mostly looking at the clock now to make sure he doesn't miss a favorite show. But if we're in a hotel or something it will bother him if he can't see a clock so we've had to make adjustments like that.

Good luck.

Hi E., I have three boys ages 11, 9, & 6. I had the same trouble with one of mine. We came up with a check list of all the "requests" our little one would make that he used as excuses to not got to bed. You know, "I need a drink, I have to poop/pee, it's too hot/cold in here, I'm hungry, I need my special stuffed animal, etc." We started our bed time ritual earlier for our son, knowing the demands would be coming. We took the check list and MADE them, drink water, poop/pee, find their favorite bedtime buddy, etc. so that there were no more excuses when it was time. We made sure that he knew we were doing this so he couldn't make any excuses once his needs were met. Then we would do the "nanny" thing, put him to bed and if he got up, we would march him right back to bed, again and again. Occasionally I would sit right outside his door until he realized we weren't putting up with his actions any longer. It took a few days, but it worked and we are now free!!!!!!
Oh yea, we did the reversing the door knob thing too.

It sounds like you do what I do for a living... Shaklee??

I wish you the very best at bedtime emancipation!!! : )

Have you tried the lavender pillow spray? I'm sure you could find some at Rainbow Blossom or Amazing Grace, and I know Bath and Body Works carries it because that is the one my kids like. My son is 9 and really has a tough time falling asleep. Now that he uses the spray, he drifts off much more quickly. Worth a try!
J.

I know I'm probably going to get blasted for my response and I haven't read the other ones just yet so I don't know if it will be recommended or not. Here's what we did. My son was rather tall for his age so he switched to a toddler bed at 1 year old. He started to get out of bed, so we turned his knob around on his door and locked him in his room. After he fell asleep we would unlock it for safety reasons, but what he would do was get up after he laid down and try to knob. Once he realized it was locked he'd go lay down and go back to sleep. Now, my 4-year-old goes to bed at 8:00 and sleeps until 6 or 7:00. We haven't locked his door in years. I know so many people are against the locking the door, but if it gets your child in the routine he or she needs it's well worth it, but don't leave it locked all night. Above all I beieve routine is still the most important with children. Good luck.

Our three year old does this sometimes. We put everyone in bed and turn out all the lights. If we all go to bed then he goes to bed too. I set the alarm and get up a little early the next morning to do anything that did not get done the night before.

Hi E., I can SOOOOOO relate with you. My oldest daughter was the EXACT SAME! After 4 years I had it. So we started a tighter bedtime routine

Dinner 6:00
Bath 6:30
Brush teeth, pjs
Get in bed, read story
Lights out at 7:00

Heres there kicker...we told my daughter everytime she got out of bed, she would loose a lovie, toy or something else she treasures. I went for the throat and when she got out of bed, went after her prized pink ty beenie kitty that she slept with every night, then quietly escorted her back to her room without saying anything to her. The first 3 nights she tested the new routine and got out of bed, lost a toy, was put back into bed, and we left. She got the message. Now she is almost 6 and all I have to say is do I need to take your ... out of your room and she gets back in bed! Point is, you HAVE to stick with it. I would not have daddy sit by the bed because this starts another bad habit, tell her she is a big girl and needs to stay in bed like a big girl tell her your expectiations, what will happen if she gets out of bed, (if you get get out of bed Mommy will take your.... out of your room and you will not get it back till tomorrow). Stick withit! I am so with you!!!

Your daughter is playing you. My 4 year old takes a bath, brushes her teeth, reads 2-3 books with me or my husband and then we leave her with a flashlight and a stack of books and she looks at her books until she falls asleep. She even turns off her flashlight every night. 4 year olds are perfectly capable of going to bed without a fuss. You have to lay down the law and stay firm. If she comes into your bed, take her back to her own. As far as my daughter knows, she's not allowed in our bed at all and hasn't tried since she was 18 month old. If your daughter is still napping, stop. Don't let her watch TV before bed- start a quiet, calming routine. Make a sticker chart and if she stays in bed for 3 days, let her pick a present. Eventually increase the time to 5 or 7 days before she gets a small gift. Make sure she's getting plenty of exercise during the day so that she's spent and ready for bed. IGNORE her if she comes out of her room. She keeps doing it because she's getting attention. Good luck. It may take a few weeks to get her to sleep in her own bed but don't give up.

First, I think I would check with her doc just to make sure there is not a medical reason for her not sleeping through the night. Second, I would stop with the husband staying in her room. You are letting her set the rules and run the house hold. I realize you are tired, but if you get her broken of this habit now, you will get more sleep later. Set the rules. At her age, she understands what the rules are, she may not like them, but she understands. She needs to learn that your bedroom is off limits for sleep and she is to stay in her room. It may take awhile, but get up and put her back in her bed. She has to learn that her space is where she is supposed to sleep and your bed is not her space.

that is a hard one. my son did the same thing we ended up put him in his own bed every time we got the chance and keep telling him that is what big boys do. even for his naps. he got it about 3 m ago and it was hard but it is all about sticking to it.

This sounds just like my 4 year old grandaughter. I wouldn't have been surprised to see my daughter's name on your letter. Finally at her 4year old checkup the Dr. told them to get some Melatonin. They get a chewable peppermint flavor and only give her half. It has been a miracle worker. She is alseep in 15-30 minutes. she does still get up some during the night. As a healthy life advocate you will be glad to know that the body does produce it's own melatonin, this just seems to give her a little boost. the Dr. says it is safe, safe, safe, even for infants. Hope it will help you. Grandma L.

Hi E.,

I know your pain. Just a few suggestions that you may want to try. My children went to sleep listening to calm music. Maybe some calm children songs or stories. Stories on CD that are calm and she has to focus and be quiet to listen will make her feel safe in her bed. Maybe she has some fear about her room talk with her and ask what she likes about her room and if she could change it how to make it better for her.
She is looking for a safe place. Try the music and the stories and see what happens.

jfrost

I have read the responses and I agree. You need to find a routine and stick to it. You can not let her set the rules. She is old enough to understand the rules and what she needs to do. If she is throwing a fit, then close the door and walk away and I would put a baby gate in the door to keep her in until she understands you mean business. You might even have to take away something that she really enjoys. Something that she will miss. My 4 yr. old started waking up wanting her music back on or trying to find her blanket or lovey. We told her that every night she wakes us up to find something or turn music back on, the next night she does not get it at all. Her music is off or her lovey sleeps with mommy. That did the trick. You have to take the control back and let her know that this is not working for anyone in the house and you are changing things. Good luck.

I am surprised that you haven't found a good doc to work with. There are some real issues here, and she needs to be tested.
Try running her buns off a couple of hrs prior to sleep time. Take a hike, swim, go to a playground. Once you are home, give only water to drink, no sweets after 4. Start early with a bath, story and them bed. Put her in her room and keep putting her back. Sounds like it will take several weeks but hopfully, you will get some relief. Good luck.

hi,
Make sure that she is getting up early. If she doesn't take a nap, at least by 8:00. If she does take a nap, by 6:30. Enroll her in some type of gymnastics class or make sure she is outside playing really hard for a couple of hours before bedtime. There is this place that we play on Wed night and there is a hill there. All that running up and down that hill makes him extremely tired where he falls asleep in 2 minutes. Trying consuling with your dr. if none of that works. Pray that it gets better.
R. Clark

E., we coslept till DD was 3 or 3 1/2 she then went into her own room, we had a small night light... and she also got stickers for every night she stayed in bed and then had a reward when there were 5+ stickers on her calendar which I printed out.

We recently had some issues with her as she is 5 1/2 yrs old of getting out of bed during the night.

We started with the stickers and if she got 5+ she earned $2 to use as she wished. Just in the first week she got all 7 of her smiley stickers.. the smilies represented that Mommy and Daddy were happy because she was getting her rest and we were getting ours. :)

Just be consistent and have those $1 or $2 or whatever you decide right there immediately, they want it ASAP but it does work at least for us.

Dear E.,
Does your daughter share a room with either of her sisters? If not, she may be afraid of being alone in her room. Maybe she and her sisters could "camp out" in the living room sometime. This would give you and your hubby time alone in your room and the kids a fun night together watching movies late. I'd do this a couple of nights one weekend (both Friday and Saturday) with the rule that she can only participate if she stays put and does NOT come out of the room except to go to the bathroom- and that even has to be done without mom and dad's help. She could ask a sister to go, but not mom and dad. You need a set of guidelines set for breaking the rules, and the rules have to apply to her sisters too. Be sure to tell everyone the rules at the start. It's important that they are clear and noone is guessing at them. We used the three strikes rule: 1st offense, a reminder (go over the rules about the campout), 2nd offense, a stern warning and timeout- five minutes is enough to start with, and third offense - back to her room while the others continue the sleep over. She may take to it right away, but it could take a few times of her sisters having all the fun while she stays in her room alone to get her to see the advantage of letting mom and dad have their time alone. It is very important that she is not allowed to come into your room or to have dad go to her room when she gets three strikes. She's going to cry, but you must stand your ground for this to work. Once she is in bed leave the room immediately. It's ok to hang around outside the room to make sure she stays there, but just do not go in other than to quickly put her back into bed and immediately leave again. Start out where she can see that you are still there, then slip farther away out of sight as the night goes on. It may take a few nights of this to get it down, but it's worth it.
A couple of things may be going on here. She may be truly scared to be in her bed at night. She needs to learn she is safe and build confidence and courage to sleep alone. She may be too curious about what is going on when she's in bed and doesn't want to miss out - she needs to learn her limits here. Finally, she may be simply controlling you and dad to get what she wants. If this is the case, I'll bet that bed time isn't the only time she's behaving this way. You'll need to watch her for a while to determine if she's doing this.
A great book that has given me tons of help with my children is called Dare to Discipline by Dr. James Dobson. The book gives encouragement to parents to stand up and be the leaders in their homes by helping them realize and recognize the different types of behavior their children may display. Dr Dobson gives great advice for disciplining (molding behavior) in a way that gets the point across in a very effective way.
I have four children who were all born within 6 yrs. The first two are twin girls that we called our boomerang babies. They were right on our heals every night at bed time. This went on till they were about 4. That's about the time I came across this book and it has been a tremendous help ever since. My youngest two are boys and we didn't have bedtime troubles from them. - That book taught us a lot!
The campout is a great reward for good bedtime behavior. We made it a grand event with tents and friends getting to sleep over too once they got past the crying stage. It was a huge mess in the morning, but after getting a full nights sleep and alone time with the hubby, it'll be worth it!
Good luck! and God bless,
Lora
Happily married 21rs, mom of 4 - now ages 20,20,16 & 14.

Junior League-Vanderbilt Center for Parenting Young Children http://www.vanderbiltchildrens.com/interior.php?mid=3740 has some great info and resources on this topic.

I went through this recently with my dd and ds.......What worked for me was setting the kitchen timer for 30 minutes and letting them know thats how much time they had before bed. Ten minutes before the timer goes off jammies go on and teeth get brushed and when it goes off we go upstairs --dad with one if he is home and I go with the other, if I'm by myself then I just put one in his/her room and tell them I'll be there in just a minute and do one at a time---they get one story, one song and lights out. I have no idea why this worked for them! lol! We spent years trying different things only to give up for a while before trying something else. The few times that one or both does get out of bed we just take them by the hand and tell them it is bedtime and put them back in bed. I seriously could not believe it worked! My husband and I were speechless!
Granted it may not do the trick for your little one but I can tell you if not, there will be something out there that does just keep trying. And don't forget it may take a week or two of doing something for it to take.....just hang in there. (I still wake up occasionally with a kid in the bed and have no idea when they came in....but as long as they are asleep in there bed first and I'm getting a good night sleep, we just let it slide...........)
Good luck

She is old enough to understand discipline. I would tell her that this will no longer be tolerated and that starting Monday, the rules will change. Give her a 2 day window, give her two days to be told everyday, several times a day, that as of..... day....she will go to bed and stay in bed. Tell her that you don't care if she cries all night, she is going to stay in bed. Get one of those door knob locks and threaten to put it on. Tell her you will start with putting this on her knob and show her how it works, tell her to try it and see that she cannot get out. Tell her that now that she is 4 that you will start an entire new routine. She will get her jammies on, brush her teeth, and she can pick out a book each night. If she does not stay in bed, the next night she will go to bed 15 mins earlier to make up for the time she is wasting tonight. You can bargain with her by starting a system that will work for her...for example...you can have a jar on her dresser and each night she is good, you put a marble in it...once the jar is full, she can pick out a toy. Or, you can fill it with dimes, quarters, whatever you choose. Put that lock on her door knob and tell her that she is old enough to behave and go to bed like a big girl. Get down on her level, you and your husband, with no distractions, and tell her that her behavior is no longer going to be tolerated. You will start taking away her favorite toys, taking away play time with friends, etc...whatever it is that she loves. Then you have to hold strong to that. You may go through a locked door and screaming a few nights. My son screamed at his door and banged until midnight. It was horrible but by the 3rd night he went to bed and stayed in bed. Every morning I praised him and did something nice for him. You can have a treasure chest that she can choose a toy, candy, etc every morning if she goes to bed like a big girl. If she does not, she has to put a toy in it that YOU choose, or maybe put money in it You be strong, get on her level, show her you are serious, and this should really work. Do not lay down with her, we did that and it started a whole new habit that he could not fall asleep on his own. When he turned 4 we told him that since he is 4 now, the routine changes. Now we read him a book, turn off the light and kiss him goodnight and walk out. Good luck! W. M

I could have signed my name to your story! I talked with my daughter's doctor in March because her lack of sleep was causing behavioral issues. After running tests to make sure that there was no chemical imblalances, she suggested we try melatonin. She said it works for some people, and there are no side affects/dependencies, associated with it.

We did research on sleep studies done with children using the melatonin, and decided it was worth trying.

We saw immediate improvement in going to sleep at night. It took several weeks before she started sleeping through the night regularly, but now she only gets up once a week or so.

We have tried not using the melatonin, because the research says that most kids will establish a normal sleep habit and not need it, but our daughter still needs it. The research I read said after using for 6-8 months was when they saw normal sleep cycles without it.

Of course, we combined that with all of the stuff that you are supposed to do at night--routines, no sugar etc.

I bought a sublingual tablet form at a health food store that disolves while she chews it. It tastes like mint. She gets half a tablet. I have told her it is a night time vitamin to help her get a healthy night's sleep. They also make a liquid kind.

Dear E.,

Your youngest sounds just like our oldest 15yr old daughter. It's a good thing you are into health and wellness, because that might be your answer. What does your little girl eat? If she gets any artificial ingredients in her diet, they are made from petroleum, cause ADD and ADHD, and can keep a child super-charged 24/7. We used to feed our daughter popsicles before bed and then wondered why she couldn't settle down at night. The website www.Feingold.org can give you all the info you need about food additives. Feingold is a 30yr old non-profit organization whose purpose is to inform the public about harmful artificial ingredients in our foods. I know how exausted you are - we did it for 10 years. Best wishes.

L. B.

As a mother of 3 adult children and grandmother of 5, ages 15 years to 2 years.......don't fight it!!! My oldest son, now 32 never slept and didn't sleep in his own bed till he was 5. I had all kinds of advice from doctors and I tried them. To bad those doctors with all their advice didn't try to sleep at our house!!! In the end, I did what my mom told me to do. Put him/her in bed with you and go to sleep. When the time is right the child will go to his or her own bed. My grandchildren sleep with us when they spend the night, and you know what....it is some of the best times ever. We go to bed a little early and play. We sing, tell stories and cuddle. My granddaughter who is 6 goes to sleep on my belly while I rub her back. When she is asleep I get up and go back and watch tv or do what ever I was doing. Life is short to worry about little things. This child will be an adult before you know it. Enjoy these times now, you will never get them back. My husband never cared where the kids slept, just as long as we got to sleep. We've raised very healthy boys and one girl. Our daughter is 34, and when I go to visit her, she is in bed with me when I wake up. Puppies sleep with their mommy and siblings, our little ones should do the same. Love your babies, cuddle and laugh but NEVER fight over bed time. At the age of 52, I have several regrets, but done when it comes to issues like this one, I don't have any. Good luck!!

what time do you start putting her to bed? what time does she wake up in the morning? does she still take a nap? how much sugar/caffien is she taking in during the day? do you have a specific routine for bed time? all these things will play a role in her going to bed. let her know...when you get her into bed, what does she do? cry, fuss, play with her toys, look at books or is it that she just gets back up. if it's fit throwing, just close the door and walk away...let her cry it out. if it's jsut getting up, put a baby gate across the door so she can't get out of the room.