Non-Vaccination Safety

I have some really good friends who do not vaccinate. My kids are. The risk is to their kids. When you vaccinate, you should skip the group for 4-5 days afterwards to protect the others. Or at least let them know that you just vaccinated, so they can choose not to come. That's really all there is to it.
This is just my opinion, but if my child was compromised with a poor immune system, I would wait to immuninize until he was stronger. If my kids are sick, I don't get the shots until they are healthy. They have to fight off the virus they are being immunized for, so they need to be at their best.
Best wishes.

I posted this because I am a mother of 2 vaccine-injured children, and like me there are many more, Vaccines don't just cause AUTISM, but language problems, Cerebral Palsy, learning disabilities, and much more!!! Now I have to come up with money I don't have to try and get my children better through Stem Cell and have to travel out of this country to do so... This is something no child or parent should ever go through... And no one has ever died of measles... just get a mild temperature and skin rash... But does not harm your child's brain or the ability to have a normal life!!!
Love, G.. :0)

http://drewfoundation.org/currentPatients.htm

Deja Vu: Spinning Measles

by Barbara Loe Fisher

Last week, CDC officials began spinning the significance of 64 cases of measles reported during the past four months in contrast to the 37 to 508 cases of measles reported annually between 1996 and 2006 in the U.S.. One-quarter (14) of the 64 children and adults who got measles in the past four months were hospitalized but there were no deaths.

A CDC press release and Fact Sheet revealed that nearly half of the 64 measles cases occurred in those too young to be vaccinated or whose vaccination status was not known. Only one fifth (14) of the cases were American children whose parents claimed a religious or personal belief exemption. This fact didn't stop CDC officials from trying to blame the measles "outbreaks" on the exemption-takers by stating "These cases and outbreaks resulted primarily from failure to vaccinate, many because of religious or personal belief exemption."

In addition, the CDC made the following undocumented statement: "Before the measles vaccination program, about 3- 4 million persons in the U.S. were infected each year, of whom 400 to 500 died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and another 1,000 developed chronic disability from measles encephalitis." A quick look at the MMWR historical tables shows that the highest number of measles cases reported since 1945 in the U.S. was 763,094 cases reported in 1958.

What is the real story behind the hyping of 64 cases of measles and attempting to demonize parents who have taken religious or personal belief exemptions to vaccination? Are government health officials trying to deflect attention from the reality that even with a 95-100 percent measles vaccine uptake for children entering kindergarten in two- thirds of the states and a 92 to 95 percent vaccine uptake in all but four states, two doses of measles vaccine does not prevent measles from circulating in the population? Are they softening up the public for a future announcement insisting that a third dose of MMR vaccine must be mandated to "eradicate" measles?

After the first measles vaccine was licensed in 1963 and began to be used on a mass basis in the U.S., health officials estimated the herd immunity threshold was as low as 55 percent vaccine coverage in a population receiving one dose of measles vaccine. (free registration to Medscape required, or click here to view the Abstract in Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal. 25(12):1093- 1101, December 2006) When that belief failed to "eradicate"measles, in 1971 the herd immunity estimate was raised to more than 90 percent coverage and the 1977 Childhood Immunization Initiative was launched with an aggressive enforcement of mandatory vaccination laws. However, by 1989 it was obvious that even with a 95 percent plus vaccination rate for children entering kindergarten in most states, measles was still circulating with about 55,000 cases reported between 1989 and 1991.

Without conducting a thorough investigation to find out why there were measles increases between 1989 and 1991 in a highly vaccinated population or why the measles being seen was unusually virulent, CDC officials announced that all children must get a second dose of measles vaccine. But measles infections persisted and, in 1995, the National Vaccine Information Center reported on informed consent violations and child deaths in a large worldwide high titer measles vaccine experiment in which a very potent experimental measles vaccine was given to children under six months old to try to over- ride maternal antibodies. By 1998, eight distinct genetic groups of wild type measles were identified worldwide in vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

By 2006, vaccine developers had raised the estimated herd immunity coverage rate for measles eradication to between 93 to 95 percent but obviously even that extremely high coverage rate in most states is not enough to do the job. So what comes next? Will the CDC call for the National Guard to go door-to-door armed with syringes containing measles vaccine to make sure there is not one unvaccinated person in the country?

Measles vaccine, which is part of the combination live virus MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) vaccine can cause brain inflammation and permanent brain damage. There have been nearly 45,000 reports of health problems associated with MMR vaccination made to the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) . However, there is gross underreporting to VAERS and it is estimated that, for example, fewer than 4 percent of all cases of thrombocytopenia (potentially fatal blood disorder) following MMR vaccination are ever reported to VAERS.

In 1997, Andrew Wakefield, M.D. and his colleagues published findings indicating that the MMR vaccine may contribute to the development of inflammatory bowel disease and autism in a subset of children, a scientific debate that continues today.

Parents contact the National Vaccine Information Center every week to file MMR vaccine reaction reports in the NVIC Vaccine Reaction Registry and describe how their children are suffering high fevers, seizures, brain inflammation and regression into autism after MMR vaccination. To view some of these reaction reports, go to the International Memorial for Vaccine Victims .

The CDC's one-size-fits-all, no-exceptions MMR vaccine policies allow almost no contraindications to MMR vaccine use. According to the CDC, a child can be sick at the time of vaccination or recovering from an illness; have a fever; be taking antibiotics; have a history of allergies; or have experienced a seizure or regression after a previous MMR shot and still be eligible for more MMR vaccine.

With oppressive "no missed opportunities" vaccination policies in place, it is no wonder more parents are filing religious and personal belief exemptions to vaccination. Some have no other choice, especially if their children have experienced previous serious health problems following vaccination and they cannot find a doctor to write a medical exemption. Others want to choose less toxic alternatives to vaccination to maintain health and wellness.

Non-medical vaccine exemptions for religious and personal beliefs are all that stand between the people and tyranny when doctors inside and outside of government take an extreme, utilitarian approach to infectious disease control and write off vaccine casualties as acceptable losses. Today, 1 in every 6 highly vaccinated American child is learning disabled, 1 in 9 is asthmatic and 1 in 100 to 150 develops autism while measles and other childhood diseases persist no matter how many doses are given or how high the vaccine coverage rate.

It is time for parents and legislators to take a hard look at whether trying to eradicate many diseases with forced use of multiple vaccines is a fundamentally flawed policy that has failed to achieve better individual or public health. It is time for vaccines, which are pharmaceutical products made and sold by corporations for profit, to be subject to the law of supply and demand rather than be financially subsidized and forced by government on the people.

No forced vaccination. Not in America.

Green Our Vaccines Rally

Wednesday June 4, 2008
9:00 a.m. - 12:30 a.m.
Washington, D.C.

Why do you assume that non vaccinated children are sick? I have six children aging from 2 through 19 years old. I have also taken the full vaccination route as well as the non vaccination route, so I can honestly say I have experienced both sides. Whether or not to vaccinate is a personal choice and we here in CA have the option to choose based on philosophy.

I would not assume your child's viruses have anything to do with being exposed to non vaccinated children, but due to simply being exposed to children. Most people are not careful about colds and still attend play dates etc despite having a cold or other illness. In my house, I have a strict policy of no sick visitors...even if they say it is *Just a cold* (a common excuse).

I find it interesting that those who choose to vaccinate their children do it largely to protect their children from illness, then assume they will catch something from a non vaccinated child. Why worry if you have "protected" your child?

The best safe guard is to stay away from anyone who is sick, practice hand washing with soap and water, and stay home when you are sick so as not to spread your germs to others and ask others to return that respect.

S.

Do what you think is best for your child regardless of how the non-vaccinated children's parents perceive you. We are our children's number 1 advocate. Go with your best instincts. Good luck.

If your son is vaccinated, then he should be safe, right? I don't see any reason why you would be concerned by having him around a non-vacinnated child. THAT child would be the one at risk, not yours....so I think it's kinda crazy to even worry about that. AND, if the non-vacinnated child is sick, then he/she would probably not be at the playdates anyways, correct?

Anyways, just my thoughts.

The risk to un-vaccinated children is actually those who have been vaccinated - not the other way around.

If we take a look at those who care getting these diseases we vaccinate for it definitely includes children who have been vaccinated. Kinda makes one wonder why to get the vaccine if your kids gets sick anyway...but that is another topic. :)

My #2 son was vaccinated up until 2 yr...after my 3rd was born a 'friend' came over with her 3 yr old to see the new baby. He was coughing...she said it was allergies. Her vaccinated son, brought whooping cough into my house and then my vaccinated son and my un-vaccinated son (who was only 2 mo old) both contacted it. I was NOT happy. That was my first lesson in who is really at risk...

Don't leave the group just because someone chose not to vaccinate - remember, they are carriers of dread disease, and your children are more of a risk the them than the other way around. :)

J

It's interesting you bring this up as I just went through a challenging ordeal around this subject. My girls attend a school where a number of the kids have not been vaccinated. I didn't think much of it until whooping cough reared it's ugly head and there was concern for my youngest because she had a cold that could have been the beginning of whooping cough even though she had been vaccinated because she had been exposed to the live bacteria not the weakened version from the vaccine. It turned out she didn't and I had both of my girls and myself boostered for pertussis to cover us. It was then I realized I was no longer as accepting as I used to be of this decision, but it is not enough for me to take my girls out of a school we love very much. I will just make absolutely certain we are all up to date with our vaccines and have them take their vitamins and such as I was already doing anyway.

Hi N.,
My kids are vaccinated, and we ran into a situation when my little one (then under 1 year old) had a serious case of RSV that she picked up at daycare. Our pediatrician advised us not to have her around anybody under the age of 12 unless we couldn't avoid it, to allow her immune system time to recover. I think at the age of 16 months, there's no good reason to have your son in a playgroup (whether or not the kids have been vaccinated) when his immune system is so compromised. At that age they just play side by side anyhow. I'd wait until he's gone several months with no health issues prior to having him play around other kids again. Better to be safe than sorry!

Hello, I am aware of this situation too. There ought to be no need to have concern of a child who is not vaccinated. Weather a child is vaccinated or not doesn't mean they are a bigger threat to your child, unless you know a child, any child, is ill and around your son ( obviously you would keep your child away from an ill child or adult etc.). There are viruses and bacteria all around us everywhere ( and you cannot get vaccinated against that ), and so your child could pick it up anyway.

If your child has been vaccinated then your child ought to be protected against the things that an unvaccinated child could get more easily perhaps. There will always be a lot of people around you who are not vaccinated, much more than you think, as it is much more people questioning vaccines today.

It seems to me instead of having fears of others around your son, you need to concentrate on building your childs immunity, and looking into alternative therapies. If he is low then look at boosting with liquid child-dosed echinacea, vitamins and top of the range supplements ( go to ahealth food store or something similar). Homeopathy is excellent in helping anyone really, go to a good homeopath to get a constitutional remedy or go to a health food store and ask them, or read some books on it. There is a lot out there.
You might also be very careful with things that triggers mucus build up or allergies, and if this goes on, have him tested for allergies. Foods to typically stay away from are wheat, eggs and milk products.

And if your child seems really low and sensitive, you might just want to stay with him or have more time at home, to make him stronger. It seems concentrating on building him up with good food and rest and looking into whatever feels good for you to do for him, would seem a much more positive action, and if you feel better, then more than likely he will too. we worry so much as mothers anyway, that if you can feel better about things, it will help him build his strength back. Listen to your heart!

Hello N.,
That sounds terrifying. I can only imagine how it would feel to go through that with your son! If your child is vaccinated, he does not run any additional risk from being in the group with an unvaccinated child. The vaccines should be protective for any of the illnessses you vaccinate for. If you cannot vaccinate an illness, then there is no benefit from staying away from an unvaccinated child. All children are equally likely to get it.

I hope that is comforting!
E. Bender, NC, CHN
www.nutritionforthewholefamily.com

If your child's immune system is compromised and it would be really hard on him to get sick you should probably keep him out of the playgroup for a while. We are only vaccinated against the most deadly of diseases. There are many other viruses -- over 300 cold viruses alone.

Dear N.,
You didn't mention which viruses your baby had so there is no way of knowing whether being immunized or not would even make a difference.
You should talk to your pediatrician about it because if your baby's immune system is compromised, they will be the only one to tell you what to do. You can't keep your child in a bubble, but you also need a professional assesment of what his immunizations CANNOT protect him from.
There are things there are no vaccinations for so my advice is to get him healthy and sturdy first and then go from there.
I'm sorry your baby got so sick. The first thing is getting his immune system back on track.

Ditto Susan's post below. Serious illnesses are on the rise again because of un-vaccinated kids, but the risk there is to those kids. I'd probably stay away from playgroup more out of the risk of catching common illnesses, since there are quite a few colds going around right now. When your son is doing better, then visit with the other families again.

I was also in a playgroup in which one of the children was not vaccinated. I wasn't too concerned since my children had received their vaccinations but my kids had also not been ill. I think if my children had been ill I would take a break from playgroup until they were really healthy again and then return, not just because of the vaccination thing, but because there are so many other viruses out there also. Good luck!

My understanding is they are protected against all of the diseases they have been immunized for. I'm not sure if they would have to of had completed each series, though. I would definitely check with your pediatrician before exposing your child to the group - immunized or not. If your son's immune system is compromised, he's more likely to pick up bugs which he is too young to treat with medicine.

I can only give you the benefit of my experience. There should be no problem. A dear friend of mine did not have her children vaccinated years ago - my children are now 25 & 26. Her kids were some of the healthiest in the playgroup - never got colds, flus, ear aches, etc. Their immune systems seemed to be great!

Trust your motherly instincts - they are always the best.

If your child is vaccinated then the non-vaccinated child is not a risk to your child.

I think as long as your son is vaccinated you should be ok. If he is not then I would consider leaving the play group.

Hi N.,

Just a thought. It seems like the children who are not vaccinated would be in more danger than one who is vaccinated. Also, anything that both children would catch would be something not covered by being vaccinated, therefore your child shouldn't be able to catch it.
Hope this makes sense and puts you more at ease. Children who are in groups for the first time are often more vulnerable to whatever is going around. Once he builds up his immunity he will be sick less.
I should add that my now 34 year old son was vaccinated as an infant.
D.

If your child was vaccinated then you shouldn't have anything to worry about right? If the child who wasn't vaccinated is healthy then your conerns are just paranoia and not thought about thoroughly. The mother with an un-vaccinated child should be more concerned with less barrier against seriously illness than you, correct? Think about this question logically and ask yourself if that makes sense.

Your first job is to protect your child and if his system is weakened, he needs to be protected from sick or unvaccinated children.
I'm not a vaccine advocate, as my child has autism and I think the vaccines are partially responsible (the timing of them more than the vaccines) but regardless, your job is protecting your child from anything that could harm him and if you feel that being around a child that is not vaccinated could hurt him, I wouldn't do it. Just explain to the other mothers that your child has a weakened immune system and I'm sure they would understand. I would.

You should check with your pediatrician, but I would expect that the child who is NOT vaccinated would be the one most at risk in the playgroup. For example, if a child came to the playgroup carrying the mumps virus, the non-vaccinated child would be the one more likely come down with the illness while the vaccinated child would be protected from it. So if this is the case, and you're wondering if your child would be more at risk of illness in this playgroup, then I think it's not necessary to worry about it. But if you're worried that your child would put the non-vaccinated child at risk, then that might be a true concern. Best wishes to you and your family.

The unvaccinated kid is no more likely than any other kid in the group to spread just any random virus.
Though since you didn't say your kid had gotten something he is protected from,like mumps/measles/chickenpox, I'm assuming what he had was something not vaccinated for.
But even if MMC and etc. were going around, it would be this unvaccinated kid who would be at risk for getting them, not your kid.
Mostly when they talk of protection from vaccinations failing, they are discussing much older kids, teens.
Your kid's shots are all current, and his immunities should be good.
(Of course, I add, the only kid I know to have gotten measles was himself vaccinated,and he caught it from another vaccinated child.)
Still, I don't really see a cause for concern here.

this topic came up in another group im in too. un-vaccinated children are not carriers of disease. if your children are vaccinated and you're confident that those vaccines will protect them, then there wouldn't be anything to worry about. there are un-vaccinated children everywhere, the park, the store, school, everywhere. it would be impossible to avoid them all. i'm sure you probably know more people who don't vax but they don't say anything. most people keep it to themselves because it's such a hot topic.

anyway the point is that exposure to un-vaccinated kids is everywhere and your kids don't run any greater risk being around them.

if your child has a weakened immune system, it'd be better for him not to be around ANY children until he's better because of the risk of the common cold or a virus. (and there's no vaccine for either of those things)

hope that helps.

You mention that your child is delicate. This is an important factor in deciding whether or not to allow him to play with unvaccinated children. It is important to weigh the risks. Would he be seriously harmed if he did contract measles, chicken pox, rubella or whooping cough? Do any of the children bite and is it possible that he could contract hepatitis? I would discuss this with your doctor or a public health nurse.

Did the non-vaccinated kids in your play group get sick as well? Or was your son's case isolated? I'm not for or against either decision, but you should do what you feel comfortable with. Talk to your son's doctor and see what he/she says. Maybe ask the the non-vaccinated kids' parents if their children have experienced the same illness as your son. My niece and all the kids at her daycare are up to date on all their vaccinations, and they all seem to be sick constantly, so my own opinion is that there shouldn't be any increased risk. Hope this helps :)

N.,
My mom is an Employee health nurse for a hospital in Oregon. I did vacinate my kids and I do my best to keep my children away from children who haven't been vaccinated the reason I have chosen to do this is according to my mom just because you have had the vaccine you may not be 100% immune, and if you have a large population of unvaccinated people you have a higher risk of getting sick, just check out the Martinez school that had to close due to whooping cough (it was posting on the board). I would check with your childrens doctor and ask what they think the risk is, you can also have your child do a blood test that can verify their immunity. Good luck
Amanda

You know, I had a long response, but then I realized, it is up to you. If it were me, I'd stay but keep my kids as healthy as I could. Talk to your doctor. But, life happens, we just have to do our best with what we can.

Whoops! Nevermind. I misread the questions.

Hi N..
I'm sorry your son has been so sick. If I understand your question correctly, your son is vaccinated and in a playgroup with a child who is not vaccinated, and you are concerned that your son may be at risk as a result. Your son is safe for two reasons: First, since most of the population is immunized, those who aren't are protected from exposure to many of the more serious childhood illnesses so they don't get them. Secondly, having started his immunizations already, your son is either not going to get the illnesses he has been vaccinated against or he will get an extremely mild case that will only strengthen his immunity. Go ahead and have fun, and best wishes that these illnesses have strengthened his immune system enough that he will remain healthy from now on!

I know there are kids i school that have also not been vaccinated due to religious beliefs and other things so he will encounter that in school as well. I don'y think he is in any danger from it so long as his vaccinations are up to date. Since I am no doctor you should consult his pediatrician for a medical answer to your question.

I am not sure I understand the concern. I don't see why you would pull him out of the play group with a non-vaccinated child. If your child has received all his recommended vaccinations to date, he should be protected from the illnesses that he's been vaccinated against. Are you suggesting that he got the viruses he's had from the non-vaccinated child?

Schools and colleges will not let children in who have not been vaccinated. The military and most government jobs will not hire people who have not been vaccinated. that is because those people could infect others. I would not allow my daughter to be around people who I knew were not vaccinated.
J.