Normal Tantrums??

Since it started when she was an infant I would suggest SRT http://www.spiritualresponse.com/ . Not everyone is open to it but I know it works. You can actually find out, through SRT, how and why it developed and then you can clear it :)

I would try to find a psychologist that is covered under your insurance. It is not considered a "mental issue". However they can see things that we can't always see. It doesn't mean that there is something mentally wrong with your daughter at all. It's just a second opinion of someone on the outside with much experience in these kinds of things. The lack of sleeping and the worsening tantrums could be signs of something else. What can it hurt? They can't tell anyone without a signed consent from you... not the school, not the pediatrician, no one. It's worth a try if you ask me.

S.,

What you are going through sounds similar to what my husband and I went through with our our five year old daughter. Without knowing everything about your situation I just thought I would tell you a little bit about ours and then you can see if it helps you with your decision of what to do next. Early on our daughter had excessive meltdowns ( as an infant) as she got older things like the ringing phone would send her into a terrible screaming meltdown. So she was sensitive to noise. Other than that she developed normally until around 18 months she would not communicate with her words anymore. It wasn't until we moved here that my Pediatrician Dr. Blake (love her) brought up some things that she saw and she was diagnosed with Autism (high functioning). I didn't go to the Developmental Pediatrician or the Psychologist either but I was able to get help through the school system with their early childhood program and now she is talking and our meltdowns are not as common and often. They not only helped her but me in learning what to do and how to best deal with those extreme meltdowns. She wasn't always a good sleeper either but I learned for her she has to have at least an hour before bed to wind down or she is up off and on all night. We also didn't take naps as of the age of 4. I missed those naps!!! I don't know if any of this sounds relevant to what you are going through but if so I hope I helped a little. Best of luck!

Hi S.,
Sorry I don't have any advice but I can sympathize with you because we have the same problem with our almost 5 year old son. He's never held his breath but he has major tantrums over what seems to be nothing & I know it's from lack of sleep. We just started putting him in time-outs in his bedroom (something I said I'd never do) and surprisingly enough he's found he enjoys quiet time there. He'll get books to read or sit on the floor & play with his cars. Sometimes when I tell him time out is over, he'll tell me he just wants to stay & play.
Like your child, my child has been this way since birth. At his 2 month appointment he was labeled "high maintenance" and I think he still gets over stimulated but doesn't have the vocabulary to express it. If I'm home & sense a metldown coming on, I try to get him to sit down & do something like puzzles or books before he gets out of control.
Good luck. I'm going to keep an eye on your post to see if I can use anyone else's suggestions for my own child!
T.

I don't have any advice about the meltdowns themselves, but I'm not at all swrprised that a 5-year old won't nap. I know very, very few who do (most kids tend to outgrow them between 3 and 4). Instead of trying to force her to sleep, it should just be "quiet time" where she can rest and recharge. Forcing her to do something she doesn't need will only make matters worse.

As for the psychologist, if you pay for it out of pocket it doesn't have to go on her permanent medical record. If that's too expensive, then seeing the school counselor is an excellent idea. He/She may know of someplace your daughter can get some free help or suggest some books or classes.

Good luck!

Hi S.,

May I suggest something that I've seen work wonders? As a small boy, Doug was convinced that he could always get his way by throwing himself to the floor and kicking and screaming. Basically, throwing a fit.

His mother was running cold water, one day, with a glass in her hand. There happened to be a couple of teaspoons full of water in the glass. On impulse, Mama turned around and flipped the water at Doug's face. Naturally, Doug stopped kicking and screaming and began to gasp for breath. There was never any danger, however. It was just the shock of cold water in the face that caught him off guard. Mama quietly said, "Knock it off," and returned to what she was doing.

The next day, Doug tried the same thing and Mama repeated what she had done the day before. "Knock it off," she repeated. As it happened, that was the end of it. But Mama told me, later, that she would have continued as many times as it took for the lesson to sink through.

As far as the naps are concerned, perhaps it would be a good idea to just have your daughter lie on the bed and read for half an hour or so each day; quiet time. If you don't expect her to sleep, but do expect her to have quiet time, she'll get accustomed to it and maybe even come to look forward to it. And there might even be times when she will take a nap. If not, at least she'll learn that time to herself is a good thing, sometimes.

S., I really hope this helps. Keep in mind that your daughter is precious and you want to always feel that she is precious. I hope this helps you both to return to those feelings of closeness. Good luck.

A little about me:

I'm a mother of four and grandmother of five; all wonderful and special people in my life. In my retirement, I read, write children's stories and word puzzles, play with my dolls and my computer, enjoy time with my best friend [my husband] and generally live life to the fullest.

As far as the tantrums are concerned, try ignoring them. She needs more attention from you. Try dedicating some one-on-one time with her. My daughter used to do the breath holding thing. Just hold her tight and blow in her face. It will make her take a breath and allow her to calm down before something else happens. She should outgrow this soon. My daughter did. She is now almost twelve and doing great!!

Oh yes....we have gone through these things. I always put the child in their room and tell them they can come out when they are done with their fit. I tell them that the rest of us are happy and don't want them bringing us down. I tell them when they are happy, they may come out and join the rest of us. They are usually in there for a very short time and come out with an attitude change. Sometimes we need to do this MANY times during the day, but usually the child gets sick of not really getting special attention. Keep up with it and she will get sick of it. My kids stop this behavior by the time they are 6 for sure. Usually sooner because we start putting them in their rooms for it when they are two.

I have a 6 year old daughter that does the same thing. She never did this as a toddler. She totally looses it...screaming, kicking. I don't know if she just gets overwhelmed and can't take it.

First. There is no such thing as a permanent record.

Second. Your daughter may very well have an emotional issue that needs to be treated.

Third. most 5 year old won't nap, and it sounds like she's getting plenty of sleep.

Find a psychologist who is covered by your insurance and take her. It won't hurt to be evaluated.

When she has these meltdowns who wins you or her? That would be my first Q. I would let her hold her breath and pass out if that is what she wants to do, and if there are any accidents when it happens have her clean it up, she isn't going to die from it. Five is a little old for naps, and she is getting enough sleep at night, is it straight through? Hold off on the referal for a little while and try some tough love first, very tough, and see if that gets you anywhere, if that doesn't work then you might want to consider having her seen.

It sounds like your daughter needs to see the psychologist, and that you need to think about why this is an issue for you. Medical records are confidential and only those who have access to them know about your child. Isn't getting her the help she needs the most important thing? That help may be the psychologist, and you need to get over whatever stigma you are carrying around that says psychological issues are bad. Get your child the help she needs!!!
ps Many mental health care professionals have a sliding scale or can make payment arrangements with you.

S.-- I would try to find the cause of some of the tantrums. Maybe there is some sensory issues like it is too light for her to rest. My daughter use to hit her self to the point of brusing from the time she was twelve months. We would say firmly not hitting and hold her hands at her sides. If you ask the school psych or counselor I am sure that they would have some suggestions. At your request the school can do an eval they have to you if you suggest it at any age even if she is not in school yet. Call your local school district. If the peditrician suggested going to a psycholigist I think I would take her it is better to get an answer and deal with it then for things to get missed and get worse. Again if you can't afford it go through your school. Good Luck M.

I have a daughter just like that. She is now four and a half. She has been like that since birth. She would wake up screaming in the middle of the night, and she would enter these tantrums where she was completely out of control. There was nothing you could do to help her, either. She was so tired, it was like she didn't have control over what she was doing. We'd try to help her settle down, and she would bite and kick us and scream even louder. So, we would usually just have to leave her to eventually settle down on her own (fall asleep). Most nights she would end up on our floor. It was not a normal situation. We finally went to see a Dr. at USU - I'm pretty sure it's the one you were referred to. And he did end up helping us. Before you go there, they send you several long sheets to fill out that ask about your child, your relationship with them, etc. They send three.. one for you, one for a father, and one for a day care or school teacher to fill out. So they get a really good, un biased ida of the situation. You send those in to the Dr before you go, so he has a chance to review them before you come. Then when you meet with him, they will do a small physical on the child, to try and rule out anything physical with the child. (He found our Dr had an earache). They do a little talking while the child is in the room, and then they send her out of the room to play with a woman (kinda like a nurse, it seemed). And they do some activites with her to test a few things while you talk with the Dr in the next room. From all of those things, he will give you his advice. He's very good. Before you resolve to go see him, I will pass along the advice he gave us.. maybe it will help you. He told us to do three things. One, he wanted us to take her to the Community Clinic on campus to see an anger management specialist who dealt with children and families. This might have helped, but it got to be quite a hassle because it was weekly, and my husband had to miss work to come. Plus it was 20 dollars a week. We couldnt afford that. The second thing he wanted us to do was to have her tested for celiac disease. (or to rule out any other reaction to food, etc that might be causing the tantrums). That came back negative. But the third thing he asked us to do saved our life! He told us that she needed her tonsils out - they were huge! So we took her to the ENT, and they took out her tonsils, adenoids and put tubes in her ears. After she healed, she was a new little girl. Her tonsils were so big, she couldn't breathe at night when she would lay down. That's why she would wake up crying during the night, and why she was so cranky during the day.
She still doesn't nap (hasn't since she was about 16 months old). But she gets enough sleep at night that the tantrums have almost been completely eliminated. So, maybe that's something you could look into.
Hope that helps.

You already have received a lot of advice with many different ideas and experiences. I cannot stress enough that there is no one solution to every type of problem when it comes to children. They are very much individuals and respond differently. Prior to being a mother, I was a nanny for special needs children, two different sets of triples and babysat many children from 0-9. At one point I had 20--- 1 & 2 year olds each week that I work with. Of course I only had no more than 4 at a time. I got to see firsthand that children's behavior are cause by different needs and each responded differently even within multiples.

I mention this because I have lots of experience with children and tantrums. At least to me they are very physically and emotionally draining. So, hang in there. You are doing the right thing to reach out for help for your daughter. Don’t forget to take care of yourself first. This has always been a struggle with me to not put the child first. Some trick for dealing with the immediate is to give the child and myself a timeout. Both of us respond better. Some time I just cuddle them while in a dark room. (Won’t work if they are hitting kicking or biting Darken rooms have an awesome effect for many children with who are sensitive, autistic, and even Alzheimer’s patients. (Won’t work if child is scare of the dark) Prevention is another huge tool to both train the child to recognize are starting to get work up and redirect it and also to provide sanity to the parent.

Ultimately, getting down to the reason of the tantrums is the goal. One family of triplets (in the same age range as your daughter) who also had an older sibling with Down syndrome experience tantrums from all four children. Two were because of communication problems leading to frustration. The other two were to get attention. One of the attention getters would do this to make some fun. In other words he was bored and feeling left out. His sibling also wanted attention and would disappear all day just to get you to give into her way of thinking. What basically worked both of them was a combination of ignoring the behavior, letting the child know their behavior was inappropriate, would wait until it stops and preventing it to begin with. The biggest help was the prevention.

The other two both had special needs. The one little boy had the same behaviors f screaming uncontrollably for four hours or more since he was a baby. Mom and Dad both thought it was just personally or he was just sensitive. One therapist for his sibling with Down syndrome got the case worker involves and he was assessed as emotionally developmentally delayed. His parents described that he was basically at the stage of dement of a baby and had no more control over his emotions. Luckily he receives early intervention from the zero to three programs, and other programs. He went from a at risk child to entering kindergarten without any special needs. It was a very long road but it was very important that all caregivers were untied. We just kept trying everything in the books, till we got something to first calm him and then correct him. Prevent was vital since he absolutely had no control over his emotions. If he did get work up that only thing was leaving him alone till he calm down. Then we worked on communication. “I am listening, you just need to calm down so you can tell or show me what you need. As he better communication, he would just say I am mad because, ---then no more tantrums. Of course, he figure out we treated him different so there were a few attention getting tantrum after he overcame the original issue. After, being firm to use him big boy words, it was all was over. He had one of the best personalities. It was trying days but SO rewarding to see him overcome the tantrums and find the real little boy he was. Some days it seem like they would always be an issue.
Since then, I actually ran into two other children who had that same uncontrollable mad cry. This time I heard it for myself from infants. When I ask for ideas of what I could do, the first question are they a preemie. All three children were. I have read up on this and found there are a lot of cases with preemies have this problem as well as others. The next step of action was to lead the family to help. Believe it or not, I had an extremely hard time find where to send these parents for early intervention since I had moved states enough though I knew it had to exist. So I am not surprised that a lot of parent don’t get to take advantage of this because of the lack of awareness that there is help for delays that may or may not result in future problems.

All my experience with especial special needs children had helped me after I became a mom. I become sensitive the frustrations building. Therefore, I would be able to interview before they escalate to a huge meltdown. It is easier said than done. My own daughter at a day old could not physically move the left side of her mouth in order latch on properly. I was shock to see the nurse just keep pushing and pushing her to do what she couldn’t do. Instead of success, my bundle of joy was doing the works, kicking hard mad kicks, and change horrible colors. (Just let a full-blown tantrum but oblivious not) The more the nurse pushed the move my daughter resisted. My daughter was hunger and frustrated and nothing was being accomplish. It took me interviewing to tell her she had enough and to give her a break. Lots of lactation consulting work later, and three to six physically therapy appointments later. She was able to latch enough to get full.

Later a friend of mine linked gluten intolerannce and red dye to tantrum with her daughter age 3. My own daughter is displaying food sensitivities we are working to balance for rashes and am sure it only complicates her moods.

Point being, there can be many medical reasons for tantrum like behavior. Many different routes to go to get to the root of the matter. Through this whole process you will be able to intervene for your daughter with whatever means of diagnosis route you choose. Don’t be afraid to ask questions get second opinion. If you have a gut feeling this is not a psychologist problem you could try other avenue first and always could go back to that one if nothing else works. I would really recommend getting in contact with the school probably the school consulter or child care line in your state and ask for your child to be assessed for developmental delays. Then what ever needs or therapies she would need there will be some form of government assistance to help you through this. The reason they provide this is that early invention is prevent long term disabilities. Therefore, I hope every parent will be able to access information to how to get this help. Maybe if there are no delays, they can point in the right direction.

I hope this helps you a long your way. Keep up the good work.