Political Question--smaller Government?

Updated on September 21, 2011
B.B. asks from Lolo, MT
19 answers

I read an article in the NY Times yesterday (link at bottom of post) that I found interesting. Here is an excerpt:

"DON’T take at face value the claims that Americans dislike government. Sure, a recent ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 56 percent of Americans said they wanted smaller government and fewer services. Tea Party activists, the most vocal citizens of our time, powerfully amplify those demands. Yet the reality is that the vast majority of Americans have at some point relied on government programs — and valued them — even though they often fail to recognize that government is the source of the assistance."

"A 2008 poll of 1,400 Americans by the Cornell Survey Research Institute found that when people were asked whether they had “ever used a government social program,” 57 percent said they had not. Respondents were then asked whether they had availed themselves of any of 21 different federal policies, including Social Security, unemployment insurance, the home-mortgage-interest deduction and student loans. It turned out that 94 percent of those who had denied using programs had benefited from at least one; the average respondent had used four. "

So, my question, how do you feel about the size of government? Too big? And if you feel it is, have you benefited from a government social program?
I'm interested to hear what you moms have to say about this.
Thanks!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/opinion/our-hidden-gove...

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So What Happened?

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. I appreciate the time you all have taken to share your thoughts, and I really appreciate that everyone has so far remained very polite and civil. Keep the responses coming.

@ Jo W.--You are exactly right about the research survey doing a terrible job of distinguishing government programs from tax policies. Deducting your mortgage interest is not government benefit. Pell grants, Social Security and Medicare are government benefits. And yes, I'm well aware of the Times' left-leaning slant. However, I still found the point of the article (an opinion piece) interesting and worth thinking about.

@Denise P.--Thank you! That made my day :)

@Mamaof3--The NY Times did not conduct the research, that was done by the Cornell Survey Research Institute. I agree that 1400 seems small, but size alone is not enough to determine that it was not a representative survey.

As Jo W. and several of you since have pointed out, the piece has the hallmark of bulls*** statistics, meaning the “2/3 of people have either a, b, c or d” with those letter representing things like “been murdered, raped, robbed, or looked at funny.”
Which is to say that unemployment insurance and social security are government programs. Home-mortgage interest deduction is a tax policy. That’s like saying that people have benefitted from a government program because they have an IRA. I get that. I just think that the author makes an interesting point about people demanding smaller government when, in fact they haven't got a great understanding of what that would really mean.
Many of you have made very good points, on either side of the issue, thanks for responding.

Featured Answers

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D.B.

answers from Charlotte on

When they say they want to get rid of or have a drastically smaller government, they have no idea what that really means. Better be careful - they might get what they wish for and then be very, very sorry.

Dawn

15 moms found this helpful

B.C.

answers from Norfolk on

It depends what you mean by smaller government.
I think government could be more efficient - there's always room for improvement and ways to cut waste.
What a lot of people who want smaller government seem to be calling for is such a drastic cut (sounds like they want no government at all) that I can't agree with it.

8 moms found this helpful

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B..

answers from Dallas on

They expect 1,400 people to represent the ENTIRE country? 1,400 for more then 3 million people? That's weak!!

Anyway...
We need infrastructure. We need government. I believe we need massive reform within our infrastructure. How to do that, I have no idea. I think people can very flippantly say to do away with the government, but in reality...very few people would like to live like that. I know I wouldn't. I like my roads, schools, parks, clean water, etc. We need change in government, not doing away with it, or shrinking it to almost nothing.

13 moms found this helpful

P.W.

answers from Dallas on

I'm okay with government agency's that help the people. What is the point of government if not to help its people? I don't like the idea of "Big Brother" but I feel we as a nation should be helping those that cannot help themselves. Yes, there are the few that take advantage, but I think that is the minority. I feel they must live with themselves and it will be minimal dollars out of my pocket. I don't want those in need to suffer because of a few bad apples.

We've all benefited in some way from our government. How about when free inoculations have been offered? My state is presently seeking assistance due to wild fires. Although in the past our governor has said we don't need government assistance..... he is asking for it. Everyone needs a hand now and then.

I guess I don't feel threatened by Big Government. What makes me feel threatened is government that wants to tell me how to live, how to worship, who to marry, etc...

9 moms found this helpful

J.W.

answers from St. Louis on

This is why I never read the New York Times. Sorry but deducting your mortgage interest is not using a government program, it is doing your taxes. Student loans would be there whether the government was in the biz or not. No one has a choice as to whether they pay into social security or unemployment. Of course if you are forced to pay for a type of insurance you will use it if it is needed. That they would use this as an example and base questions on it negates any credibility to the rest of the survey or what they felt it said.

Sure social security and unemployment are government social programs but they are programs that we pay into as working Americans. They are also social programs that we have no choice as to whether we participate. I can assure you with what has been removed from my salary and that of either of my husbands I could retire very well without the help of the government. As it is I won't see a dime because it will be bankrupt.

Since the government has proven they suck at administering social programs I think they should fix the ones they have made a mess of and stop trying to add new ones, like say, Obamacare.

9 moms found this helpful
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S.K.

answers from Dallas on

Smaller government doesn't just refer to entitlements. It is also a reference to making them stop sticking their noses in everyone's business, both literally and figuratively! The regulations are absolutely absurd and are killing jobs. Just today I heard that San Francisco wants to require people to put "bird safe" glass in windows to reduce the number of birds that die from slamming into windows. Those windows cost twice as much as regular windows. Huh?? THAT is the kind of ____@____.com I am talking about.

The government has grown by leaps and bounds in the past couple years and our economy is in the tank. I think that speaks for itself on why we need to reduce the size of our government.

9 moms found this helpful
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C.S.

answers from Miami on

Our government is entirely too big. The tax system is convoluted, disjointed and trying to influence our behavior. It needs to be completely reformed.

To answer Shari's question: 47% of wage-earning households pay NO federal income tax in the United States. That is a US government issued statistic (Congressional Budget Office) not from a Republic or Democrat funded think tank. The top 1% of American wage earners pay 38% of federal income tax. The top 5% of wage earners pay nearly 58% and the top 25% of wage earners pay 86% of the federal income tax. Every time I see the bumper sticker that says "Paying Taxes is Patriotic" - I wonder who the patriots are???

I am thrilled to see the AP picking up this story:

http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-rich-taxed-less-secretar...

C.

7 moms found this helpful
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B.C.

answers from Los Angeles on

Yes, we need smaller government. Every administration says we need more parks so they set land aside for parks. Every administration wants to have more infastructure so we get bridges to nowhere, a museum to Lawerance Welk, a multimillion dollar study to discover why people fall n love, a multimillion dollar study to discover if the flower loving desert fly is really an endangered species.

YES we NEED smaller government and less intrusive government. AND we need a government that gets a dollar's worth of labor and goods for each dollar spent. (Why should a roll of toilet paper delivered under the food stamp program cost tax payers just under $2 PER ROLL when you include the wages paid to federal and state employees, the cost of the granite mansions they work in and their EXTREMELY generous retirement programs?)

ADDED: It may seem like adding a park is a so what. BUT every park has to hire a multitude of people to take care of it, administer it, mow it, pave roads to it and inside it, make maps and brochures, etc. Parks are very expensive besides taking property off the property tax rolls.

Good luck to you and yours.

7 moms found this helpful

T.K.

answers from Dallas on

Why did we need small govt, less govt regualtions and oversight in the 80s? To make more money. Coprorations made a lot of it and many Americans did as well. We spent a ton of moeny on defense and space defense

Then, late 80s, the pendulum swung and suddenly, we needed govt to regulate sexuality, morality, marriage, and reproductive rights.
Then post 9/11even more government controls with the dawn of the Patriot Act. Now the govt can tap your phone, check your library and internet usage, and look at your financial transactions without a warrant. We spent a ton of money on war and homeland security.

Now here we are, and the pendulum has, once again, swung. We hear elected members of our government advocating for it to be dismantled. People are being told, and fully believe, that big government (the social service side of it, not the defense, or adminstrative side) is the cause of all our problems. We can no long afford to house or feed the poor, elderly, disabled, veterans, and children. We can not afford to be good stewards of our environment. We cannot afford to educate our young people. Any use of tax money other than on defense, fire, police, and postal service must surely be out of control. Government gone wild.

6 moms found this helpful
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K.K.

answers from Los Angeles on

The NY Times polled 1,400 people - when we have how many here? Not a real representative poll. And the fact that they used Social Security, Unemployment as well as Mortgage Interest write-off - is showing just how ignorant it believes its readership is.

Security and Unemployment are government programs - yes - however, people PAID INTO IT...just because it's a "government program" does NOT mean it is an entitlement program since people have paid into it.

Mortgage Interest Write Off?! PLEASE!!! How is this a government program?

No. I've not used an entitlement program. Not food stamps, welfare or subsidized housing.

the government is too big and too intrusive. It needs to be more efficiently ran...they can start by getting out of our personal lives...I do NOT want them in my health care - PERIOD.

Government can do TORT reform for health care.
They (the government) can get out of it and open it up for COMPETITION - then rates will HAVE to get more competitive.

5 moms found this helpful
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J.C.

answers from Anchorage on

Most people have used at least one gov. program. The problem is that they only think about things like welfare or programs set up for the poorest Americans as gov. aid, when in reality many things are, like the article said. What I find most funny is how many of these small gov. folks not only do use gov. programs, but they also have no issue with the gov. telling us what we can do with our own reproduction and which adults can legally marry. LOL

5 moms found this helpful
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J.C.

answers from Philadelphia on

I want a smaller government. Some day I may have SS but I would prefer not to pay into it and finance my own retirement. Have I ever collected unemployment? No, but given that I have paid into it I don't think I would feel bad if I had to. Once again, I would prefer not to pay into unemployment and do my own preparations for a rainy day.
I do take the mortgage interest deduction but this just reduces the taxes I am forced to pay. It is not an entitlement program. What a flawed poll!
49% of workers pay $0 in federal income taxes. I suspect that the majority of people in this group are happy with this arrangement and would vote for MY taxes to go up.
There is a quote I like although I do not know the author... "Democracy will fail when the majority of people believe they can vote themselves a free loaf of bread.". Scary!!

EDIT: Technically, my husband, a small business owner pays into unemployment. If he looses his clients he is not entitled to collect although he pays into it. My dad and bother are general Contractors... Same story as my husband and their business has suffered as a result of the recession. They had no work in the month of July. Did they collect a dime? Nope.

5 moms found this helpful
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G.H.

answers from Chicago on

'Benefiting from our Government', haha that's laughable....the government doesn't MAKE money...the government takes money from one person & hands it to another

also, We are FORCED to pay into these government social programs

I refuse to read the Negligent New York Times, for reasons exactly like you posted

5 moms found this helpful
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J.L.

answers from Chicago on

Smaller government....did you read the article today that stated the DOJ - Department of Justice since 2008 has spent $121 million on conferences and pays $16 a muffin to feed the participants??? Here read it!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/16-muffins-8-coffee-served-justice-...

So much government extravegance!!!! Stop spending the money you don't have and then we wouldn't have to worry about tapping into SS, altering medicare and medicaid....We the American people pay enough taxes....Cut the spending and we'd see a difference.

4 moms found this helpful
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S.G.

answers from Rapid City on

I guess you should look at each of these programs as they are. First of all Social Security is a tax that comes out of paychecks and is being misused by the senate who thinks they should be able to use the money in it for other programs and expenditures. Then there is Unemployment insurance. This is something Employers pay and employees pay in. It isn't the same as payoff to the banks and car dealers, welfare and other programs and bailouts. The low interest morgage for home and student loans are paid for by the borrower, even though the interest isn't as much as what it wouldn't be in a private borrower. The first time home buyer loan we got 20 years ago was 8% interest. Now a private morgage is a lot less then that.. so no, it didn't cost the government anything, they just didn't make as much as private banks who handle morgages for the time the loan was taken out. It is making MORE on the loan now then what the banks now days would make in a private morgage. Welfare is taken from tax payers money that is sent in as income tax and it is given to a lot of people who need it and some who do not need it but take advantage of it. Now when you ask about smaller government, yes, it would be good to have them run the government like we do households or businesses in which if there isn't the money for something, you don't solve it by spending more or raising the debt ceiling. Can you imagine what would happen if you maxed out your credit and said "oh we need to raise our credit limit so we can live like we have been all this time"? Not a business or household would survive under spending like that so why do people think it is ok for the government to do that? If the government was ran like a business or household then they would cut back where they can and they wouldn't spend on stupid stuff just to get backing during the next election. If the high ranked officials would use the VA, which is a government ran health care for our service men, instead of the high ended insurance we pay for with taxes, then the VA would a better program and we would save a lot of money. If they used social security or paid for their own retirement funds then we would also save a lot of money and Social security wouldn't be in the trouble it is. The cut backs should be with them as well as with the programs that has a lot of waste in them.

Someone once mentioned that a federal sales tax rather then an income tax would be the fairest of all. Those who spend the most (the rich) would pay the most taxes and those who can't afford as much would pay the least in taxes. Food shouldn't be taxed. Wyoming dropped sales tax on food and it hasn't hurt the Wyoming government at all.

So let me ask one more thing. With the child credit families get on income tax and other credits, how many middle class and lower class families actually pay ANYTHING into the government for income taxes?

4 moms found this helpful
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S.B.

answers from Houston on

There is a misconception about unemployment. The company pays into it the employee does NOT. The employee pays into SS whether they want to or not. I believe back in the 1960's government decided to use SS as a slush fund and would write IOU's. The problem with SS is that there is cost of living increases for individuals who did not contribute as much. For example, my grandparents didn't contribute as much into SS as they received from it. They also received a COLA (cost of living adjustment). Why? Why get more then you put in? There isn't a separate account for every person who contributed to SS. It goes into the general fund which in my opinion is the biggest ponzi scheme of them all.

My aunt is getting SS on her first husband who was remarried to someone else at the time of his death. She's had 4 husbands! I asked her how she could do that and because she was married to him for 10 years she can collect. I said what about his wife and she said well she can collect too! WHAT??

I want smaller government. Also, using the home-mortgage interest deduction isn't a federal program. It is a tax loop hole which this administration wants to close. No - we have not used ONE service. We have never been unemployed, we have never needed welfare and we have never used SS, we are too young and I don't think it will be there when I retire.

3 moms found this helpful
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S.W.

answers from Minneapolis on

If you want a "smaller government" then start with telling all government to stay out of our reproductive choices...

3 moms found this helpful
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B.C.

answers from Tampa on

I wouldnt believe anything NY times has to say.

3 moms found this helpful

T.N.

answers from Albany on

But, wait! Don't we need MORE government to protect us from the crazed arsenic pushing apple juice child killers?!

Sorry, no real comment.

:(

2 moms found this helpful
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