Potty Training My 4 Year Old??

She is old enough to clean up her own mess. Show her how and supervise, but she needs to know the consequences of her actions. Then start a positive chart - every time she goes in the potty get a sticker, and a certain number of stickers earns a reward. Good luck!

Sounds to me as though your daughter has a couple of possible issues. One: she may be having growing-up issues - not quite sure if she's ready for that next step; Two: There is definitely a control factor at play here. In other words... the 'accidents' are deliberate.

Considering the first issue, since she was barely three, the family's focus has been on a new baby. Even children who act lovingly toward a new sibling can still harbor feelings of resentment or displacement. Your daughter may well be trying to re-establish her place in the family. Make sure you are giving her plenty of "just you and me" time without interference from taking care of the new baby.

On the second issue, the control factor, the problem is not just with your daughter but with the whole family dynamic. You open your question with the statement that she is a very smart little girl but then, later on, you say you 'believe' she can do it. You 'believe' she can? She is four years old! Not so very many years ago, most children were potty trained by the age of two, two and a half at the latest. It's a mental process more than a physical one. She learned to recognize the urges to pee and poop a long time ago and connect those feelings with the actual process of elimination. Unless she is physically handicapped, of course she can. She is old enough to go potty at ballet class but all of a sudden, when she gets home, she forgets how? You know she can. She has already proved she can go to the potty whenever she wants to. So what's with peeing in front of the telly or pooping under the table? These are deliberate gestures and she is telling you something. Wow, is she ever telling you something! She's in charge and you cannot make her do what she does not want to do. (You'll want to change this, 'I'm in charge' pecking order soon because it will only get worse!)

Now, your daughter may not fully understand the full process of what is going on, but she is learning how to control you, one step at a time. And it's working great... for her. Whenever she messes herself, she gets a reaction out of you. You yell, you cry, you beg, you bribe, you cajole, you scold, you withold. Doesn't matter to her. For those few precious moments, she has your undivided attention.

Since nothing you've tried so far has worked, maybe it's time to try a new approach and flip the result of her conduct.

First of all, give her plenty of positive attention and personal one-on-one time, just the two of you. This will help her feel more secure about her place in your new, two-child world. Take time for a "girls' lunch date" or something for just the two of you where you can interact as opposed to ballet or something of that nature where she is involved and you are just watching from the sidelines. At home, make special time for coloring, baking cookies, or something of that nature, even cooking dinner together ... things the two of you can do together but in which the 3 month old cannot participate. Keep this seperate from the potty training issue. Don't make one contingent on the other as this would give her another aspect of control.

Next ... on the issue of potty training. At this point, it's not really a matter of 'training' as such because she already knows how to go to potty by herself. She just chooses not to do so at home. So, if that is her choice, she must deal with it on her own. Ignore her acting out and, if she wets herself or poops in her pants ... well, that's her problem. If you notice she is wet or she smells and her panties or Pull-Ups are 'loaded', don't say anything. When she comes to you and tells you she has wet pants or she pooped, simply point out that it is no longer your job to clean up after her messy drawers and she needs to go change. (I guarantee she will not want to linger in those dirty undies for long and, once you establish that you are not going to change her and clean her up, she will do it for hereself, albeit reluctantly.) This of course will lead to dirty britches in her room so you will want to take the next step with her (and another project the two of you can do together) - as someone already suggested - laundry. She will need to learn to clean up after herself and that means at least helping with the laundry that she, herself, created.

There is more at play here than merely potty training or being made to clean up after herself, though. There are a lessons being learned - on both sides of the relationship. You are teaching her to be responsible for herself and that her actions have consequences. Positive actions beget positive consequences and negative actions beget negative consequences. She will be learning to be self-sufficient. And she will also be learning her place in the family - which does not include being head of household. You, on the other hand, will also be learning ... how to exercise your position as head of the household. If you learn how to deal with control issues now, it will go much more smoothly later on. You and your husband need to clearly establish the 'pecking order' in your household. When a child is four, there is no household democracy. It's a dictatorship. You and your husband are in control. You make the rules; she obeys them. As she gets older, of course, she can have more latitude in expressing her opinions on family issues but, until then, she is the people, you are the government.
You may even want to sit down with her and explain, in simple dialog she can understand, the change in government.

As soon as she is convinced of your resolve and that she will, indeed, be held responsible for her actions, she will make the necessary changes.

Hi M.,

I had a similar problem with my son. He refused to do it. One day I asked him why he said, "I don't want to." I told him that he was too big for that and if he didn't decide he "wanted to" soon, there would be consequences.

I told him that if he was going to act like a baby, he would be treated like one. No more pull-ups, only diapers. No playdates, no fast food...only baby things. Oh, and I told him if he wasn't ready by his 4th birthday (a week later), I would cancel his party at Chuck E Cheese. Also, I told him if he had any more accidents, he would have to clean everything up. The floor, the clothes, whatever and that it would take him so long, he wouldn't have time to play or watch TV (which would, of course, have to be baby shows because babies wear diapers)!

It worked the next day he told me to get rid of his pull-ups, he was done....and he never had a single accident! He was using it as a control mechanism. He was going to do it when he wanted to and not before. I just had to make him want to!

Good luck!!

wow, I'm shocked at these responses. It is not a power struggle. Some children just simply cannot do it until they are older.

Please, speak with your child's doctor about this and follow their advice. I can tell you what my son's pediatricians have said:
1. Don't push it, it will happen when it happens.
2. Don't punish for accidents of any kind.
3. Relax, you can't make it happen till the child is ready.
4. The more you push and nag, the more you will turn the child away from the potty.
5. When trying, use only underwear. After 2 days if there are still more accidents than making it to the bathroom, go back to diapers or pull-ups and wait a month or two and try again.
6. The more stress you put on it, the more stress the child will feel, and the harder it will be for them to learn.

My step-son struggled with potty training till he was about 9 years old. He couldn't tell when he needed to go, until it was too late. His "full bladder" mechanism didn't fully develop until he was almost 12. He was embarrassed to have an accident and cried and cried and cried over it. Kids that are potty training don't LIKE to have accidents, they don't do it to win a power struggle, they don't do it to be mean, it just happens. Every kid I've know has felt bad enough on their own for an accident they don't need punishment or toys taken away because of it.

My 4-1/2 year old wasn't potty trained until he was 4 years and 2 months old.

Please, speak with her doctor about it.

set a "potty timer" start with every hour for it to go off. every time the timer goes off you stop what you are doing and go sit on the potty no if and or buts about it. then when she comes out of the bathroom you reset it for an hour and start all over. this worked great for our daughter when she was 3 so give it a shot. good luck it will get better!
P.S. the oven timer works great

I would get an apt with a pediatric urologist. Sounds like she has a problem. She may not can help it. But I would get it checked out for sure. THat just doesn't sound normal to me.

maybe try not talking about it (for a few days or even weeks) or mentioning it for a while. Even though it may drive you insane try not to let it bother you and try not to let her see that the whole potty thing bothers you. My daughter pretty much did the same thing. She was 3 1/2 before she would poop on the potty, and I finally got her out of diapers. I would have my daughter help me clean up the mess when she had accidents and if she asked for anything special like to ride the carosel, etc. I would tell her that sounds like a special treat once she starts to use the potty. Don't get me wrong, it's not like we never did anything fun or she didn't get treats.

Don't think your son be the same. I have a 2 year old already out of diapers...even at night. When people would tell me their child was trained by the age of 2 I thought "no way!" But it happens. I just figured my son would be almost 4 before he was potty trained, just like my daughter, but that's not how it worked out. Perhaps you have something to look forward too.

good luck

Hi~
I believe this has turned into a 'control' issue instead of a 'toileting' issue. Children WILL find what 'pushes our buttons' and then keep pushing it, and if her 'accidents' are getting attention, that's what she'll do -- have 'accidents'. Try rewards and praise for success instead of discipline or punishment for failure, is my best advice.

M.,
My son has a 4 year old who did the same thing. One Saturday I baby sat for them. I had already decided on a plan and it worked. I had him potty trained in one day.
Here is the answer: Children get used to pullups and they become her crutch. Once they get used to using the bathroom in them, they just don't see a reason to use the pot. I was going to be the only one there with Gabe. Therefore, he had to depend on me. I simply took away his pullups and told him he wouldn't be wearing any pants that day. At first he didn't complain. But, when he needed to go, he started asking for his pullups. Then I had him. I sat him on the pot and told him he had to go in it. He was totally confused. I realized that, even with everyone's prompting, he just had not gotten the concept that one uses the pot instead of their pants. He figured that was what pants were for. I told him I had a surprise for him, if he did it in the potty. I made him stay there until he did it. And, then I gave him his favorite thing as a reward. "Hershey's Chocolate kisses" Gabe loves chocolate kisses. And, I kept praising him for his victories. A light came on for Gabe. He immediately figured out that he could use the potty and not mess up his pants. And the best part was getting a reward. I kept reminding him through out the day. He did have a couple of small accidents, before he remembered what he was supposed to do. But, he was playing hard and not thinking about the potty. By the end of the day, he was jumping up to go to the bathroom. And, he would make sure I was with him so he could get another chocolate kiss. He went home that evening with a smile on his face from pride and a big bag of Hershey's Chocolate kisses for daddy to give him when he went to the potty successfully. His potty problem want away with very few incidents. And, the Chocolate thing just seemed to drop from his thoughts after as short while. Gabe wants chocolate all the time anyway. And, he gets a reasonable amount for a child without going to the bathroom.
Try this method out. Take away those pants for a day or two and see. And, let us know how it works for you.
Good luck with your efforts.

There's a magical book called Toilet Training in Less Than a Day. It works, IF you do EVERYTHING it says - in less than a day. It worked on my 27-month old son (a year ago). It also works on older kids. You can find it on amazon.com. You can skip the first three chapters (kind of like a long, boring research paper). Good luck!

I had a similar problem with my daughter she just wouldn't take the time out of playing or whatever she was doing to go so, we set a schedule and went at the same times everyday whether she actually used it or not didn't matter, she realized that it didn't take as long as she thaught it would. well i hope this all works out for you!

No advice here, just wanted you to know you are not alone. This sounds just like my 4 yr. old son. He can stay dry at preschool, but refuses to do so at home. Rewards and threats don't work with him. He is not able to clean it up himself without making a bigger mess. We're trying to not talk about it now. If we do, he gets really angry and it makes things worse. We've told him he will not be able to go to the pool next summer if he's still in a pull-up. Unfortunately for us, he's too big for "Pull-Ups" and has to wear "Good Nights" which are made for older kids with bedwetting problems. Anyway, good luck to you.

This is obviously a power struggle, and it is one you MUST win. You must win this one because if you don't, you'll be struggling over something forever more. I think it's time to make having dry pants at home the biggest priority--bigger than any toy, book, TV show, ballet lesson, etc. I'd take away everything until she demonstrates that she can stay dry a day (1 book), 2 days (another something), 3 days (one more thing), etc. I'd take it all away if she wets her pants. This is obviously going to hold you hostage more than she, but it's high time that this was over, and that she gets the message loud and clear that you and your husband rule this home, and decide privileges and priorities.

I assume you have had her checked by her pediatrician to make sure there is no developmental reason for her problem. If so, it sounds like you and she are locked in a power struggle (speaking as a mother of a strong willed 6 year old). She is only doing this at home, so it is about her exerting her power. This is the only area in which she has any power, and she knows you REALLY want her to do this. You might try a little reverse psychology and some behavioral techniques:

Act like you don't care anymore about her using the potty. Tell her you thought she was a big girl, but maybe you were wrong about that. Tell her (and follow through) that she can wear pull ups or panties, but she is responsible for cleaning up herself. Help her if necessary for sanitatrion reasons, but let her do the bulk of it. Require she help you with the laundry. Do all of this without shaming her, just act like its no big deal. The more upset you act, the long she will hang on to the behavior. At the same time, offer her other ways to have power: give her more choices in other areas within reason (what to wear, what to eat, etc.) I'll bet she will be over this in a few months.

Good luck!

Hi M.,
I am a mother of seven...all grown...and now 7 grandchildren. What I know for sure is that ALL children are different. I had one daughter train herself at 15 months and another was like your daughter...4. I will say I believe it is a power struggle between the two of you. Now, especially with the new baby..she wants ALL the attention she can get from you and you are pulled in many directions. I would advise you put her back in pull-ups and ignore her. Believe me they do not like to stay wet and pooppy long. Do not rush to change her. Let her know that she has the control, and you know that she is a big girl and can go by herself. I think you have done all the rewards (except m&m's) that was our favorite. Wishing you the best...