We moved out of States recently and now live in a country/town with only two preschool options . Our son L who will turn 4 this month got accepted in a better of the two! The ratio of teachers to kids is 2:24 during initial take in phase and it drops to 1:24 for the rest of the year. The group has 3 to 4 yr-olds. We had two 2 hr days to hang in the classroom with L before dropping him off the day of the class, kiss goodbye and leave. The teacher is very adamant about this drop off procedure although we talked to the school psychologist that suggested gradual approach based on L’s character (increasing the number of hours he’s left by himself). This is L’s 1st time starting preschool. Well, we tried once before when he was 2 and had to abort the mission due to too much separation anxiety. At that time the teacher and school in the US we worked with was EXCELLENT! In the past L’s been very slow to adapt to new people and environments… needs that extra adjustment time and easing into it. We made this our top priority and are ready to invest the time it takes to make the transition, but the teacher at current preschool uses cookie cutter approach. She says they all do fine, and the crying settles down by Christmas. Now is September! L cried the first day the whole time he was in there – 45 min. My husband was quick to pick him up as he couldn’t handle it (he has very bad memories of preschool himself, by the way, in the same country). So this is all striking a cord. The school serves kids breakfast, snack and lunch, although the 3 days my husband and I observed them, we didn’t see any snack served. The teacher said it was bcs it was the beginning of school year and hectic. I thought that was strange – kid’s need to eat regardless. During try out days I was surprised by lack of intervention by teachers. The children would grab from each other and no one would be there to promote sharing, conflict resolution, etc. Some smaller kids were throwing toys across the room and teachers could not respond/see because they were busy with something else. Some children hit each other with toys they were unwilling to share and that too went unnoticed. There was no circle time, or organized activity. If this was in the States, I’d ABSOLUTELY look for other preschool options. But this is my only option now. We are Dr. Sear’s followers and like T. Brazelton as well. We’ve always opted for no-cry solutions. I work from home and my husband has flexible work hours to be able to help. We also got early help from my Mom – enough not to have to put L in child care center yet. However, now we’re in a culture where MOST parents (even the ones that don’t work) put their kids in preschools like these (since this is as good as it gets) because of general belief it is good for their socialization. For most part we feel out of place and are struggling with what to do. Please help – we welcome any input!
The only thing that he will learn there is bad stuff, bad behavior, etc :(
She can't handle 24 kids let alone teach them anything. It sounds like complete chaos.
If I understand correctly this school has 2 adults for 24 children at drop off and then only 1 for 24. This is not acceptable in my opinion. One teacher cannot keep track of everything. I'd forgo preschool. You can expose him to academics at home and find play dates to teach getting along with others.
I totally agree with the previous two responses. I'm all for pre-school but this place seems too harsh and basically unsupervised. I mean, how can 1 teacher watch 24 kids that young?? My 1st and 3rd graders are in a class of 22-24kids and they usually have an aide. One teacher with that many 3-4 yr olds is ridiculous!
Totally trust your gut, you know your son the best. Over the past 9 yrs of having kids I find every time I've ignored my guy feeling I ended up regretting it. Mommy knows best.
Just like the other posters said...socialize with playgroups, art classes, gymnastics, etc. This preschool sounds more traumatizing than beneficial.
Good luck!
I agree this sounds like an insensitive, unstructured, uncaring environment. No gradual transition, no circle time, no conflict resolution, no snack -- more chaos than anything positive . I would consider enrolling him in classes he might enjoy (art, gymnastics, etc) for his socialization skills, and not joining in the fracas here.
I'm all for preschool -- but this doesn't sound like an ideal environment. You might consider observing (without your son) for a few days. Or simply insist that you need a longer transition period, and try observing with him.
But bottom line -- trust your instincts on this. You seem like smart, thoughtful parents, go with your gut on what to do
PS Just saw the ratio of teacher to student -- 24 to 1? -- totally unacceptable -- and I would think illegal.
As a former preschool teacher and current great grandmother, I really agree with those who think 4 year olds need socialization with their peers. But I am appalled at what you describe. Are there any day care homes with a loving mother who has some training in the kinds of activities and encouragement sensitive bright children like yours need to be well socialized and safely cared for while you and your husband work? It takes years to overcome bad relationships with school and the price is not worth what it will cost your child and his parents as well if he stays in a bad environment. Trust your instincts on this one. Blessings and best of luck in finding what works well for your child.
N.
I think preschool is good but not this one. That ratio is too high. I can't believe the state is ok with a ratio that high. My daughter is 4 and the ratio at her school is 1:12. When she was 2 the ration was 1:8 and yes she still got hit with toys and scratched but the teacher was able to observe it and give the proper punishment.
I also believe kids need to learn to socialize before entering kindergarten. Kids that suffer from separation anxiety are a distraction to the other kids when it comes to learning because the teacher has to spend more time with the crying child. Maybe you should check out the other school. Even going half a day would be good for him.
I am not convinced that socializing a child is more important than a child's comfort and happiness. I did something very novel that our generation doesn't seem to consider. Of course this is only IF you have the option- not working outside of the home or working Part time. I pulled my kids out of preschool- and I kid you not, just hanging out with them, sitting and reading to them, taking them to playgrounds, museums, libraries, even the grocery store, has given them security and happiness that they need. Some preschools are great, others not so much. Some parents don't have this option. But, interestingly parents today don't seem to know that this option exists w/all the competitiveness and helicoptering... if it's a possibility I'd encourage you to do it/try it! I only have one other friend who didn't do preschool and both our kids are absolutely fine in elementary school now. I am not being judgemental for those who can't or those who feel overwhelmed by the thought- I'm just suggesting a great easy solution if this preschool is not the right fit. It's amazing how much your kid(s) probably just want to be with you if you are home all or some of the time. Best wishes!
Need to get the kids up so this answer is short but I have two thoughts:1) this school sounds like it is NOT a good fit and I would remove my child. Do they have home schools or day care available? If not, it's time to stay home and wait until the kids are older. 2) You and your husband seem like you might be a bit oversensitive to the separation crying. It does happen and they do get over it - quickly. My oldest had a hard time too and honestly, it was best for everyone if I kissed him and left. I would cry all the to work but within a week, it was fine. Still a bit of hesitancy when I first left but then, no worries. I now have a happpy, healthy, super bright, athletic 4.5 year old who is very flexible and adaptable. I'm afraid you're anxiety might be rubbing off on your child. Good luck, sounds like a difficult situation.
Many cultures (including the US) still use very traditional education systems and are overpopulating schools. Your experience seems to also stem from teachers overwhelmed by too many children in a class. If you are not happy with the environment - tell the school you are considering pulling your child out and if they don't seem to put any effort in changing then the school is not for you. I had the same experience in another country and did 2 things: formed my own "learning groups" with other parents who wanted something different. We would meet and divide responsibilities - it was much like a pilot for what could be a community home school. I started to research alternative schools in the area that were also much more in line with our teaching philosophy.
We were blessed enough to have our son avoid preschool. I am able to stay home and enjoy teaching our son how to be a great person. We spent our days playing with friends, going to museums and going to the library to read and check out lots of books. We did a parent involved schooling 2 days a week for 2 hours for the fun projects. Our son just started Kindergarten homeschooling and he is 3/4 of the way through the K curriculum without even opening a book. I am just saying that the type of preschooling you mentioned is not necessary to get him ready for school. It is not the choice for every family. I could never have dropped our happy son at such a place.
You say that you have him in the 'better' of the two preschool options. If that is the case, then I definitely think you would be better off keeping him home. You can work with him yourself on any of the academic types of things he needs to know in order to be ready for school. Get him involved in other programs where he can learn to interact with other kids and learn socialization skills. If you are church attenders, this is an excellent opportunity to develop relationships that will help with socialization. Look for other community events/classes that you can take him to that will help him as well. Even going to a park or playground with him on a regular basis where he can find other children to play with while you are observing and supervising him will help. Another option might be to get acquainted with parents of other children and form your own cooperative play group.
I would take him out just because of the adult:child ratio. My son's preschool is 2:12 and the largest they allow is 2:16
Wow! Just wow.... 1:24???? And the teacher doesn't have structured activities or circle time or times of quiet play???? I LOVE what Nancy J said. Maybe there's that option for you? Socializing is important, but what is your son gaining and/or learning by the type of socializing he's being exposed to???
I am a preschool teacher. I would not put up with it. I have a philosophy that children will let go when ready. If a child needs a parent to be in the classroom--then I let it happen. Each child reacts differently and has different needs. No one answer fits everyone. We are a community raising children--and while I am a teacher? --the parent is the primary caregiver.. and should be #1 in the child's life. Despite this, in my professional opinion, 1:24 is TOO much--not only for the kids, but for the teachers as well. It is not developmentally appropriate. I say, since it sounds like you can, follow your gut--and pull your kid from the program. Let him stay home. Good luck! and again--Don't hesitate to follow your gut--you know what is right for your child. =).
I am a teacher and would never put a child in the environment you described. Socialization to be caring, inclusive, and responsible in a group context is a great idea; simply putting a child in a school to be "socialized" (at such a young age especially) will only teach him/her to cope and act out. I'm not saying that a preschool needs to be super-structured, either--both structured and unstructured learning are important--but no matter what, the environment needs to feel safe, inclusive, and conducive to learning. No school is better than a bad school, and in any case, children aren't born in litters so it's not natural for them to be among so many others who are exactly their age.
not sure what kind of preschool would allow 24 kids to 1 teacher. thats nuts and just asking for trouble. I would suggest you look around and maybe put him into a daycare w/preschool curriculum.
I am a preschool teacher, and I think that preschool is pretty important. And I wouldn't worry too much about the separation thing. I'm not that rigid, but I do ask parents to leave after the first 15 minutes on the first day, and it is always just fine. When the parents stay and stay and stay, it just prolongs the agony for a child who dreads separation.
But 'the crying stops by Christmas'?? That's just nuts. Once, and only once, did I have a child who cried every day at drop off for a month. That's it. Mostly it's only the first day or two. And the crying never goes on for more than fifteen minutes (usually it's about 3 minutes). I can honestly say to my parents, "he'll be fine."
I'm not sure that your child would be, with so much chaos. In my class, kids are safe, and they are taught good behavior, sharing, respect, and problem-solving. That's not happening in that class. Because there is so little learning happening there, and because of the chaos, you should pull him.
Can you find a good playgroup, so he still gets to play with other kids?
look for a nanny share or a small, low-key day care that has only a few kids. or start your own, if you have the time. there must be other families in your predicament who would take three or four kids for one or two days a week and then you switch off.
i think a structured preschool is the best option, but what you describe sounds awful. the ratio of kids to adults sounds illegal, as does denying the kids food and not intervening during fights. has this place received reviews? what do the other parents think of it? can they all get together and demand better care for their children?
good luck with your decision.
I agree that 1 to 24 is not a good ratio! I can't imagine handling that number of 3-4 yr. olds! If I were you, that would be my #1 concern. It's probably why the teacher wasn't stepping in when the kids were acting up. If you're son is only there 45 minutes, I wouldn't worry about the snack thing. (Or did you're husband pick him up earlier because of the crying?)
If your son is going to be starting kindergarten next year, I do think that preschool would be a good idea. I remember starting kindergarten and crying because I'd never left my mom. I think it was only the first day that I cried. However, a lot of the other kids were much more outgoing and I think it took me a couple years to really get used to being a part of my class.
My son just started preschool yesterday (he's 3). He complained that there were too many kids and he didn't know their names. That just takes time though I guess. I have been working since he was 12 weeks old, so he's over the separation anxiety, but there were many days I felt just horrible leaving him. It was heartwrenching.
If this is the only school your son can go to, it may be best for you and him if he can adjust. If you gain some confidence that the school is a safe and nurturing environment, then I would try go by the teacher's recommendation of a quick goodbye in the morning. It's tougher, but he will probably take to the school faster. It took my son about 3 weeks to adjust to day care when my mother-in-law couldn't watch him.
That being said, if the preschool is too chaotic, your son continues to cry there, and you feel it's not a good place for your son, then just keep him out and try to get him involved in other activities. Good luck to you!
Firstly, you can't affectively teach 24 3 and 4 yr olds alone. I took my son out of the 3 yr old class for that very reason. 2 elderly church women (76 and 81) with 32 3yr plus's and my kid was being bitten twice a week, knocks on the head, slapped, kicked, etc until about 2 months into it I said ENOUGH and moved him to the preschool classroom where there is no more than 15 (you read it right) to a class per teacher. Suddenly no more kicks and scratches. No more biting. AMAZING.
I am a firm believer in the fact that just because a paper or a couple of parents say it's "the best one around" doesn't mean it's the best one for MY KID. And he's obviously not having a good time. I'd move him. See what the other school is like. And I wouldn't at all recommend taking him out at all because he needs that interaction with other kids for when he starts Kindergarten. At LEAST let him go a couple of days a week. My nephew never went to a day care in his life. Never spent the night over at someone's house. And now that he's in Kindergarten, he's THAT kid that all teachers dred because all he does is cry all day.
Ultimately this is your decision. He's your son. And I'm certain what ever you decide to do will be the best decision for your child.
Sending good thoughts your way. :)
Hmm by US standards this exceeds any recommendations in teacher to child ratios for child care centers - however, if you are planning to send your child to school next year in the US or oversees, this is the exact kind of ratios they have in the public school system. Additionally, if he will be at school in this town/country this is the social norm there and that is one of the goals of pre-k is to get them used to the social environment as well as what is expected of them.
Re: transitions. He is 4 yo and it may be time to rip that band aid off. No school is going to let you transition "easily" . That may have come out wrong, but only to say if he is going to school next year there won't be any transition to speak of based on my experiences and now may be a good learning time to get him to speed along that process:)
If he isn't going to school next year in US or where you are. Don't stress yourself or him out. Keep him home, get him invovled in other activities for a social outlet and cross this bridge when he is older and has had more practice at adapting to different situations.
good luck!
