Problem with Kindergarten Friends

Huh...we're going through the exact same thing with my first grader. This particular bully is offensive to a LOT of kids. My son sounds like yours. He feels like he can handle it, but it irks him a little. I tell you what. All this "let's talk about it" only works so much. After a while something needs to be done. The kid can only be sent to the office and parents notified so many times. Think about what you would tell your best girlfriend in a relationship with an abusive (any type) guy. You would say, "stand up for yourself!" "Don't tolerate that!" Or, would you say, "Honey, talk to him about it...if it keeps happening, practice how you should act..." I don't think so! It's no different. Bullies will bully as long as there is not a strong enough response to make them stop. Here's what we told our son.

(AFTER the child had been sent to the office, the teacher notified and put in "time out" on a daily basis...which by the way is OBVIOUSLY not working).

1. Tell him to cut it out
2. Warn him...if he touches you again, you will fight back
3. If he harms you physically, pop him. (I know many of you are freaking out right now) Then, tell him very firmly, "I told you...keep your hands off of me." We did by the way tell our son that we never start fights, but we always defend ourselves.

Well...what was the result...the kid not only leaves my son alone, but he tries to play with my son. Unfortunately, due to the kids' bad language and consistent bullying of others, we've advised him to think very carefully about who he wants to be associated with. In addition, a friend of his (who was called a racial slur by the bully) was bullied by this kid all year long last year. My son became his friend one day after hearing him be bullied and stood up for him. Anyway, the bully now stays away from his new friend too.

This is life folks. Unfortunately, part of the bullying problem in my opinion is that everyone wants to "talk about it." That's great if it works, but most of the time, it's the victimized kids who end up getting the butt end of the deal while the bully attracts a ton of attention from teachers and administrators who should be spending time teaching...not parenting.

WHAT KIND OF SCHOOL ALLOWS CONTINUING BULLYING AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN INFORMED? The reason I put it in caps is that I want to SCREAM. It is very obvious that the child doing the bullying has emotional/psychological problems and needs to be treated. You also need to teach your child how to deal with bullies. You need the help of the school, the teacher, your spouse, the other child's parents, etc to get together and form a plan to address the issues. DO NOT LET THE BULLYING CONTINUE ONE MORE DAY! Your child has asked for your help. This is not a "friendship" but it is a pathological relationship which you must intercede and end. You must be your child's advocate. My daughter was in kindergarten with such a child. The child was transferred from one elementary school to another in the district and was finally EXPELLED in second grade. The child had terrible emotional and psychological problems and I do not not know his ultimate fate. I think you should take a good look at the bullying child's family. The child is learning this behavior either from a parent or a sibling or?? Please try some article on line like
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bullying/MH00126

Read Parenting With Love and Logic

The school should handle what's happening at school, push them to do so.They should be supervising recess... more.

At home, talk to your friend and at playdates... she should take care of it. If not, I'd separate your son from him, don't be around them. You don't want this to alter your son's personality and social skills.

This is not an easy one. I do not think you should let it go, or try to let your son deal with it. I was bullied like that when I was in 4th grade, by one mean little kid that wouldn't stop, no matter what. I can tell you, you don't have the skills to handle it so young, no matter how intense is the coaching at home. I fought back, but going to school was torture, and I know it affected the way I perceived school, friendships, and myself. Luckily for me, one day he was gone. I see, though, a mayor problem here, your son sees this kid as a friend. You can try all your mentioned options (talk to the kid, the parents, the teacher, your child, separate them when you can), but I doubt this is going to stop until one of them is not in THAT school. You might not be able to do anything about the other kid (unless you're willing to try with the school administration), but it is ultimately your choice where your son goes to school. I strongly believe no matter how good a school is, the environment (influenced for this one kid in a mayor way) is NOT positive for him. Please consider that, for your kid's sake. Good luck.

Hi J.,

Wow, what a hard situation you are faced with. I feel for you and the other mother as well. If it were me, I would try and have my son transferred to another class if possible. I realize they would probably have the same recess still, but at least this would minimize the trouble during learning time. I guess all you can do is encourage your son to try to make new friends as well and maybe the other boy would stop being so dependent on your son and makes some different friends too. Good luck! I hope things work out for you and your son!

Hi J.,

I had a similar problem with my son during his elementry-junior high years, and I learned that the problem does not go away. We worked with the school, parents and our son, but at the end he got bullied, not just from one boy, but at the end most of the boys in his class excluded him. We attempted to switch him schools, but at 5th grade he insisted on not wanting to run away and face those bullies. He did get in a few fights, but nothing that caused any harm to either kid. At the end of this 8th grade year, he was so...ready to go into high school. Some of the boys that bullied him, are now outsiders at the high school and my son is one of the popular kids; loved by many of his new friends. He feels that because he was faced with this challenge early on, he became stronger and more confident. But it came with a price, nights were he would cry because most of the boys would not want to be his friend and wondered what was wrong with him. He developed anger issues and we had to get professional help to stabalize his anger. He is a great kid, but if I had to do it again, I would have moved him into another school and separated him from the bullies. Eventhough, I know bullies will be in every school I feel it would have benefit him more to separate him. I hope my experience helps you.

A.

Hi J.,

I have a little bit of a different take. Have you considered enrolling your son in Tae Kwon Do or Karate? The reason I ask is because while violence is not the answer (nor what these disciples teach), it will give your son the confidence he needs to handle this bully and any other that may show up later in life. He will learn to diffuse situations without feeling pushed around. Bullys are generally scared and insecure people who pick on those who they see as weaker than them. If your son feels confident then he will no longer be seen as weak. It may also be helpful to teach him how to assert himself verbally; simple things like I don't like it when you...

Hi J.,

This is definitely a tough situation. I spent a few years working with children with behavioral problems, and have a few suggestions that might help. I know it can be hard to talk to this boy's mother - even though she is a friend of yours - but I would try to emphasize to her that working on this issue can be something good for her son's future in terms of helping him be more comfortable and fit in better with his peers before it becomes an even bigger issue than it is. It can also be a great thing for your son to work on so that he will have had experience coping with stronger personalities and bullying types.

I was thinking that you and your son and this boy and his mother might do a few role playing scenarios outside of school. Perhaps have a playdate, when bullying behavior occurs try to coach your children- have your son explain why it hurts him when the other boy acts aggressively. Perhaps the boys can come up with a 'code word' for your son to say when he feels particularly upset with the other boy. if you can role play the appropriate behavior when bullying occurs at home, perhaps your son will be able to deal with it more effectively at school. You could implement rewards (like stickers) for kind behavior towards each other in play dates, and hopefully the behavior will generalize to school.

Often, this kind of behavior occurs because it is successful - just like tantrums, a child will use bad behavior if it accomplishes the goal of getting what he or she wants. Although it may not feel like your place, perhaps you might want to talk to your friend about how the behavior is responded to at home, if they have found a way to keep him from being overly aggressive at home, it might suggest a way to accomplish the same at school.

I hope this helps! Good luck!

I have a friend who has had the same issues. She actually told the other mom that her kids can't play with their kids. She told her that she really likes her as a person/friend, but everytime she brings her kids home, they've picked up something that is not allowed in their home. I was like, "Wow....how'd she take that?" She was fine with it and now we go to lunch without the kids.

You are his mom....don't let it go. That's teaching your son that your friend's feelings are more important than your son and his feelings and emotional well-being. If mom doesn't stand up for him - who will? Seriously. It's not like he's 15 and can handle things himself. He's barely 6 years out of your womb.

We started homeschooling after the other children's behaviors in kindergarten were effecting our son. He's super strong and independent, but the stuff he heard, etc was appaulling. So, we brought him home to give him a good foundation and he can play with those kids anytime - but supervised by me...and his Dad. Eventually, he may go back to school, but with a firm foudnation of what he is willing to put up with and what he's not....and the verbal skills to back it up.

Good luck.

Face it: you won't be friends with these friends anymore. You can be civil and not raise your voice etc. A mean kid is a problem, but it isn't your child so walk away mentally and physically. No matter what happens you won't be friends for long.
Talk to the teacher and see that the bullying is stopped. School is a place to learn.
B. v. O.

Hi J.

Have you sat down and discussed this issue with the teacher yet? The teacher is supposed to play a big role in what happens at school and in recess. I would make sure that the teacher works with you if (s)he agrees with your assessment of the situation. I would also let the other mom know that until the other kid's behavior changes, the 2 of them would not spend time outside of school. Good luck.

Hi J.,

I would definitely talk to the teacher as well as any noon time/recess supervisors. Teachers are not always out on the playground at those times. Be sure to tell the teacher that your son is being bullied. This is a key word for teachers and can be used as a red flag for them. The child that is bullying your son needs to be stopped. If this behavior is overlooked for too much longer, you can imagine what type of behavior it will lead to in junior high and high school. Personally, I do not think you should let it go, or try to let your son deal with it. Kindergarten is a tough age with lots of changes going on. The last thing your son needs is this lousy kid making life tough for him. It sounds like you are doing a lot of what you need to do. Maybe you could role play some situations that might come up at school for him with this boy so that he knows exactly what to say and how to say it. The only other thing is to be sure that they are not in the same class next year. If your teacher is aware of the intensity of the problem, however, I'm sure she will know to do this.

I wish you all the best for your little boy. I hope his year will improve soon.

L. H.

I like Em K's solution. My son is only 2.5 but I'm sure we will have some issues. He has Down syndrome and is very high functioning so we will be mainstreaming him in the schools. It will be interesting to see if he has more, or less, of these types of problems. And if he has them, and if Em's method seeing to match with my son's personality and abilities, I may try that.
Good luck! (and i also agree, don't just ignore it! I was bullied a BIT and my parent's didn't do anything and I think that influenced my judgement of friends for a LONG time.)

Hello, Our 7 year old grandson had a boy in his kindergarten class who was a real bully. He liked to walk around and "bellie butt" the other kids. He would also poke them and say inappropriate things. When I or my daughter volunteered in the class we would make sure that he knew that we were seeing what he was doing. The unfortunate part is that he has parents who don't (or won't) see what he does. The father is just like him. Several times he would make inappropriate comments about me. I would always defend myself and he finally stopped speaking to me. Mission accomplished. My daughter made it very clear to the teacher that my grandson was not to be partnered up with this boy or sit with him in class. Fortunately, my grandson is a high learner and was not placed into the same class for the last two years. The playground is another problem. The best we can do with that is to teach our children to be strong enough to stand up for their rights to play and not be bothered. If he can "use his words" to tell the other boy to leave him alone it might help. However, he should know that it is okay to tell an adult when this isn't working. If it is just untolerable, you could try getting his class changed. Unfortunately, they will probably still play and eat at the same time.
As far as talking to the parents, I would try, but, good luck. Most parents are reluctant to see (or at least admit that they see) when their child is such a nuisance and/or bully.
I do have to say that I appreciate Em's response.
Good luck with your precious family.
K. K.

I think that you have done everything a di[plomatically and friendly as possible. By letting this continue you are making your son a victim. By continuing to allow it will make him think that this is the way he should be treated. I think that he needs to stand up for himself and when the boy physically or mentally goes after your son your son can take a stand. Give him the power to say enough and if the boys hits him then hit him back. Put your son in karate. The dicipline will help him build self esteem and give him the tools to say " I am not going to take it anymore-so cut it out. All else fails switch schools and dont socialize with them anymore- yuor son will be happier

Have you thought about having your son moved into another class? I would talk to your son's teacher and the principal. You can explain your situation and request they are in different classes next year also. If it is a half day K class (not that common anymore) you could have your son in a different session. Try not to worry about what your friends will think...the other boy's parents. You are your child best advocate! Good luck.

I think you are dwelling a bit too much because you are already doing what you can. You are aware of the situation and do a lot of coaching with your son, right? The teacher is aware of the dynamic and separates them as much as possible right? (Definitely put the word in for separate classrooms next year... though this sounds like it may be a private school with only one class per grade... if not, You should request a separation for first grade, discreetly to the principal, and the Kinder teacher should back you up on this). Otherwise, what can we do, kids will still make their own choice of who to play with at school, we can't be there every second.

You said also that the other kid's mom is well aware of all her son's problem behaviors, so it sounds like you don't need to push the issue on that one- but- she should understand then why you don't want your son hanging with hers outside of school. And I think you should really limit their time together to be only at school. Explain that they have such a complex and close relationship and spend so much time together at school, that you really want to give them some distance outside of school to become independent. Say you think it helps them get along better at school when they don't burn out on eachother at outside playdates and social gatherings.
And then REALLY encourage your son to be socializing with other kids besides him. Arrange playdates in the neighborhood, and with other students from the class, make sure he has other activities that don't involve this friend (scouts, karate, whatever).
If your two families are close, and there is only one classroom per grade at this school, this problem is not going away so there is no sense to "dwell"... just stay on top of it and encourage your son daily in handling it. How he handles it will really be character-shaping for him. Suonds like you are doing ok so far, keep it up.

talk to your friend again and let her know that if she doesn't correct the problem that you are. if she does nothing (as it seems like it has been) then TALK TO THE OTHER CHILD YOURSELF. do it with your son there and his mother. tell the child exactly what you expect from him as your son's friend and that your son loves him very much, but DOES NOT LIKE THE WAY HE TREATS HIM. emphasize that!!!! inform him of the consequences of not playing nicely, such as no longer being able to come over and play. also let him know that he will have to not be his friend any more if he continues to hurt your son. this is rough for your son, but eventually it is wearing down his self-esteem and also inhibiting his ability to make new friends and come into his own, which is what kindergarten is all about. also, speak to the teachers again regarding the situation and what has been said between your two families. let her know that your son is going to be coming to her for help if the other boy isn't behaving and that you expect her support on this issue. this child is growing up to be a bully, and obviously the other parent doesn't care. you need to be your child's advocate, he is only 5. i had to do it with one of the neighborhood kids and while it wasn't enjoyable, the message came across loud and clear. it not only pointed out to the other mother how serious i was about her child's behavior, but the other child had to hear from another adult that his behavior is unacceptable. there have been a few slip ups here and there, but i have stuck to my guns and that child was banned from my house for set periods of time and not allowed to play with my daughter at school, either. the teachers she had were very helpful and supportive of the situation, and were grateful that i was so pro-active of the situation. also, when talking to everyone, make it CLEAR that if things didn't improve that it would result in the end of the friendship because you won't allow your son to be treated the way he currently is. good luck, let us know how it turns out.

NO, you DO.NOT.LET.IT.GO, nor let the kids handle it themselves. Your child, or any child who is being BULLIED, needs assistance.
Sure, your son is not 'ready' to end the relationship. So then, HE will have to do all the dealing with it... because the other kid is NOT going to change in the near future, nor his parents. So it will continue.
If that is okay with you/your son?
The "problem" has become your son's burden... because the other kid has no sense of ownership over it, nor his parents. Its unfortunate this has been put upon your son.

Your son, can be taught about "choosing" friends... and how he is treated. That is what we taught our kids, since they were toddlers. They have learned now, how to "choose" friends and go elsewhere if mistreated.

In my daughter's school, there is a "NO Tolerance for Bullying" policy. See if your son's school has one.

In my daughter's school as well, there is a Counselor, that handles kids with issues that is having a hard time adjusting to school. AND the parents of the child are told and talked with. AND, if the child has behavioral/psychological problems... (which this child OBVIOUSLY has), then perhaps, he needs further evaluation by a professional. Since, this child has a HISTORY of aggressiveness. His behavior is not normal.

KEEP documentation on it. If it does not get handled, in school, then at least you can follow up on it.

I would NOT just let my child deal with it. It can perhaps then set a precedent for how he is treated in the future, or how he chooses friends and how he lets them or not, treat him in return. At the least, it is a learning experience for him.

Can't you have your son, or that kid, placed in another class???? That is what my Daughter's school does sometimes, if very necessary.

There comes a point, where even if a child does not want to do something... that we have to help teach them ramifications of things, and we have to as a Parent step in. If my kids were being mistreated and bullied by a child... even though they still sort of wanted to be friends with the child... I would talk to my kids about it and "why" some "friends" are not friends... and how a friend is someone that RESPECTS you and treats you fairly etc. AND, teach your child how to initiate in asking for help if harassed. How to speak up.

My friend, has a daughter that "had" a friend just like that boy. She stopped it. Her daughter was getting SO SO SO stressed out by it and the dysfunctional "dynamics" of the friendship. Her daughter was being "BULLIED." No other name for it. Sure, she was friends with the girl's Mom, but she was just honest and told the girl's Mom that her daughter was suffering so much stress by it... that she can't allow it anymore. It just was NOT a "healthy" relationship, nor for her daughter's well being.

Its hard to believe that lunch/recess is not supervised. Geez... that it just asking for trouble and problems.

Kids, even if this young, need to learn, what is a "healthy" relationship and what is not. They can learn that. We teach our kids that and they get it.
You do NOT want a child growing up thinking that being mis-treated & bullied like that is "okay" nor to think its normal.

All the best,
Susan

that sounds like a challenging situation to deal with as a parent. it sounds to me like your son is very mature for his age and knows what he wants out of the relationship and how to ask for help when he needs it.

i would let it go and trust that your son is learning valuable lessons about himself, others and how to create his own boundaries and stick up for himself. since he is not ready to leave the relationship, it seems he does see value in it and enjoys some aspects of it.

he knows that you are there to help him in the ways that you can, and from that platform of security, he can launch into his own life lessons. the lessons that both children can learn through this "conflicting" relationship have the possibility to greatly benefit them in later life.

they may end up as great friends!

wishing you peace of mind and best of luck. :)

Hi J.,

I am a counselor at an elementary school, and when parents have these problems with their child I always recommend a friendship/conflict resolution group. The group usually meets once a week for a period of 20-30 minutes. I give students tools on how to stand up to bullies and become their own self advocate. I would recommend asking your son's teacher if there is a counselor at your school who you could talk to about this possibility. It really helps kids become more confident and assertive. I hope this helps! :-)

SE

J.,
That is certainly a predicament. And an uncomfortable one at that. I would be worrying my head off, too. If it were me, I'd take the pro-active stance and
#1) talk one-on-one with the teacher -- she probably has some great ideas, too. The school and principal should also be aware of the situation, as well, so they can monitor the playground and recess.
#2)Your son is too young to let him figure this out by himself, but some situational acting/coaching with you, your husband and your son would probably be very helpful to him
#3)You and your husband need to sit down and discuss this with the other boy's parents. Be blunt, be frank. I don't know how close you are to this family, but this might be a deal-breaker for me, personally, if you are "family" friends with them. If you are personal friends with the wife and can get together one-on-one on your own, that's one thing. But I would curtail family outtings with them.

Bullying is a very, very serious issue and I would not want my child to be seen by other children as being a victim. That may set up a world of problems going forward into elementary school.

I wish you the very best with this tough one.