Seeking Kaiser Doc Open to Alternative Vaccination Schedules

Hi
First of all congrats.. I myself have 3 boys, all of whom I have decided not to vaccinate, I also have Kaiser. I go to the kaiser in Petalum (which is not to far from vallejo)I see Dr. Hirsch, he tells me the pros with vaccinating, but also lets me make my own decisions, and still treats all my children with the best care. I have also seen other Dr. at the clinic in Petaluma and it has never been a problem. I hope this helps. K.

Hi L.,
I'm responding even though I take my daughter to the Kaisers in Rohnert Park. Maybe it's interesting to others reading this thread. We've been seeing Dr. Jamie Weinstein (http://www.kaisersantarosa.org/jamieweinstein) and she was great about talking things through with me and listening to my perspective about alternative vaccination schedules.
And she is just wonderful all around, has several kids of her own, has taught and is both research oriented and practical.
Good luck!

Deborah

Hi L.,
I can totally understand why you're concerned about this. You are a great mom who wants to make sure your child gets the very best health care. Great job! I'm sorry the doctors have been less than supportive and not willing to talk with you about this. That can really be a problem.

The reason that the doctors don't want to give vaccinations on an alternative schedule is because they aren't effective in preventing disease unless they're given on schedule. So if they gave the vaccinations on an alternative schedule, and your child contracted measles and died (which is a real risk) the doctor would be responsible for that.

It is great that you are vigilant about your child's health and are studying about what's best.
Sometimes the internet and other moms are not the best place to get health info. (especially about vaccinations...) There is a lot of misinformation that really sounds true (about vaccinations) and there is a lot of fear out there. However it can be really dangerous not to vaccinate or to vaccinate on an alternative schedule because kids can die from some of these diseases. Very small children, like your child, are the most vulnerable. That's why the doctors you talked to don't want to change the vaccination schedule.

Recently in the UK a child died from measles... this is because moms are afraid to vaccinate their kids.

Hopefully you will be able to find a doctor who will applaud your interest, committment and desire to be vigilant about your child's health, and work with you to give you the information you need.

God bless you!
M.

Both my boys were born at home and when I took them in for their first week check up, the nurse asked... "on purpose!???" Shocking how uniformed the medical community can still be. That was in Petaluma. In Santa Rosa I found a wonder Kaiser doc who also gave us his phone number and actually answers his phone! Dr. Jose Morales. He is incredibly respectful and open. I did vaccinate. My husband and I are around children and families all day and we know we are exposing our kids to all sorts of things... and I didn't want to be responsible for passing a horrible disease. What I wouldn't allow was mass injections which they are famous for. Four or five shots at a time. We spread them out and I watched for reactions to each type (this can irritate as you have to make numerous trips), and we skipped a couple until much older... the ones I never had as a kid to begin with. I also asked for the lot numbers off the bottles and recorded them to keep track of each. This gave me better piece of mind. The good news is that thimerosol (sp?) is not currently being used in their vaccinations - at least that what the injection nurse claimed at our Kaiser... but you have to be brave and ask.

Good luck

Don't give up. My son has severe autism and I'm positive it was because of the vaccinations as are a lot of other parents. I don't know why everyone is so upset about children that are not vaccinated. If their child is vaccinated then their children should be protected right? When it comes down to it, it's all about the money. The doctors are paid by the pharmecutical companies to push their products,so it's a viscious cycle. Stay strong. I wish I knew more 12 years ago.

I don't have experience with Kaiser with my kids, but the Doctors I have talked with are all very against not vaccinating. It seems to me you have to find someone who is totally independant of any hospital affiliation in order to someone to listen. Kaiser is an all emcompassed facility (HMO), which means that they will want you to do what they think is preventative, no matter what you think.

What a loser - that doctor threatening to call CPS! That really makes me mad.

I had Dr. Kenia for my son at Hayward Kaiser, but he has since relocated to San Francisco Kaiser. He was supportive. I would be informed before I showed up for the appts, then ask him what my son was "scheduled for", then tell him what I wanted to my son to have. . .such as, only 2 shots at a time and not recieve the combined MMR shot (or any combo shot). Next, I would go to the Injection clinic and repeat what I told the doc. There was never a problem.

askdrsears.com has an excellent "Alternative Vaccination Schedule". It's very helpful. Review it ans bring it with you once you know what doc you want to try next.

Best of luck and God Bless.

Are you willing to travel to Marin County... San Rafael is about 25 min from Vallejo give or take. Andrea Hope Feedback Lee is our sons pediatrician, and she is very respectful and understanding towards our decision not to vaccinate our son. I'm sure she would gladly work around an alternative schedule of vaccinations/immunizations.
Good luck!
B.

We used to go to Oakland Kaiser; we saw various peds there and all were open to alternative scheduling of shots. In our case, we did them all (except Hep B) but spaced them out over three years so that DD started MMR at age 2. So, not that extremely different from standard but we really found that the folks at Kaiser Oakland were easy to work with.

Anyone who threatens you when discussing the care of your children is no good. Especially when it comes to vaccinations, where there are many different valid approaches.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/01/the-vaccine-hard-sell-...

The Vaccine Hard Sell at Pediatrics

Managing Editor's Note: Mike Wagnitz submitted this letter to Pediatrics. They declined to run it, as it their right. We decided to run it. As is our right. Dr. Offit is pushing harder than a mother delivering triplets to convince moms and dads that anyone who speaks in favor of vaccine safety is wrong. Including Dr. Bob Sears, a pediatric voice of reason whom we have been happy to welcome to Age of Autism. You can read his post, Smart Vaccine Decisions for Families with Autism (HERE). Sorry, Dr. Offit. No sale.

A Shot of Reality
By Michael Wagnitz, B.S.

As a chemist with 27 years of experience evaluating material for heavy metals, I find it unfortunate that the journal Pediatrics has allowed Dr. Paul Offit to repeat misinformation regarding the use of neurotoxic metals in vaccines. He scolds Dr. Bob Sears for not giving the proper scientific credit to the paper, "Weight of Evidence Against Thimerosal Causing Neuropsychological Deficits" (1), published in the NEJM. Let's take a look at the quality of this paper starting with the impartiality of the authors:Dr. Thompson - the lead investigator - is a former employee of Merck.Dr. Marcy has received consulting fees from Merck, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and MedImmune. Dr. Jackson received grant money from Wyeth, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and Novartis. He received lecture fees from Sanofi Pasteur and consulting fees from Wyeth and Abbott. Currently, he is a consultant to the FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee.Dr. Lieu is a consultant to the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.Dr. Black receives consulting fees from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, and Merck, and grant support from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Aventis, Merck, and Novartis.Dr. Davis receives consulting fees from Merck and grant support from Merck and GlaxoSmithKline.(The above information was included in the fine print of the published article)The article states that any child with a preexisting neurological condition was eliminated from the study. Isn't this what the study was supposed to examine, whether thimerosal causes neurological damage? These preexisting conditions included encephalitis and meningitis. The possibility that thimerosal might cause these conditions was eliminated from consideration.

Children were eliminated for other reasons from the study. One group excluded was children whose birth weight was under 2,500 grams, or 5.5 pounds. The number of babies eliminated because of this was not reported. Babies of this weight are not rare and they are not excluded from any vaccine. In fact, in a study published last year in Pediatrics, it was shown that low weight babies had a much higher rate of autism (2). In the end, only about 30% of the original study participants remained. The authors seemed to weed out anyone who didn't fit their desired conclusion. Offit says (and I quote), "It is hard to imagine a better conceived, better designed study on the subtle effects of mercury poisoning". No Offit, it's hard to imagine a better conceived and better designed study to obfuscate the issue concerning the safety of thimerosal.Offit tells us how aluminum in babies formula and breast milk dwarfs the amount in vaccines. What he doesn't explain is that aluminum is only dangerous once it's in the bloodstream. Aluminum is not absorbed through the gut. It is 100% absorbed through vaccination. He ignores the paper published in 2007 linking aluminum in vaccines to Gulf War Syndrome (3) . If it can harm healthy, adult, combat ready soldiers, at a lower dose per body weight, what is it doing to newborns?Here is one subject Offit never touches; multi-dose vaccine vials, including current versions of the flu, tetanus and meningococcal vaccines, contain 50,000 ug/l of Hg, a level 250 times higher than what the EPA classifies as hazardous waste (4). All these vaccines are recommended for children. Primates exposed to injected ethylmercury from vaccines, as opposed to equal doses of ingested methylmercury, end up with twice as much Hg++ deposited in the brain (5). This form remains permanently trapped and has been identified as the primary toxic agent in degenerative brain diseases (6). State of the art research has shown us that autism is a degenerative brain disease (7).Parents understand the difference between truthful information from honest, caring professionals like Dr. Bob Sears and the aggressive, bullying tactics that Offit and others are trying to sell them. The cat is out of the bag and it's not going back in.(1) Thompson WW, Price C, Goodson B, et al. Early thimerosal exposure and neuropsychological outcomes at 7 to 10 years. N Engl J Med. 2007;357 (13):1281 –1292(2) Limperopoulos C, Bassan H, Sullivan NR, et al. Positive Screening for Autism in Ex-preterm Infants: Prevalence and Risk Factors Pediatrics 2008; 121: 758-765(3) Petrik MS, Wong MC, Tabata RC, Garry RF, Shaw CA. Aluminum [vaccine] adjuvant linked to gulf war illness induces motor neuron death in mice. Neuromolecular Med. 2007;9(1):83-100.(4)http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/hazard/tsd/mercury/regs.htm(5) Burbacher T, Shen D, Liberato N, Grant K, Cernichiari E, Clarkson T. 2005. Comparison of blood and brain mercury levels in infant monkeys exposed to methylmercury or vaccines containing thimerosal. Environmental Health Perspectives. 113:1015-1021(6) Charleston J, Body R, Bolender R, Mottet N, Vahter M, Burbacher T 1996. Changes in the number of astrocytes and microglia in the thalamus of the monkey Macaca fascicularis following long-term subclinical methylmercury exposure. Neurotoxicology 17:127-138(7) Vargus DL, Nascimbene C, Krishnan C, Zimmerman AW, Pardo Ca. 2005 Neuroglial activation and neuroinflamation in the brain of patients with autism. Annals of Neurology 57:67-81.Conflict of Interest: Father of a vaccine injured child

Love, G.. :0)
http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/

"I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical. Even God had some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all spin." ~ Jerry Newport

You could report the doc who threatened you- it's an empty threat intended to intimidate you into compliance. That could be considered malpractice by some. What a jerk. Kudos to you for standing up for what you believe. -K.

That's odd, we are with Kaiser in Santa Clara and our MD let us choose our vaccination schedule we like.

Hi there,
if you can come to the richmond kaiser, i have the most wonderful pediatrician,Dr. Karen Kruger.
She is very open to what the parent wants and is not judgmental to changing the Vaccination schedule.

She is warm, loving to the children and always has a smile on her face.
We trust her completely and i can not say enough wonderful things about her.

If you have anymore questions feel free to contact me.

Good Luck

Gotta love ignorance! Not you, but the doctor who threatened CPS. They can NOT under any circumstance file a report with CPS for not vaccinating. We live in a country where they are mandated, but NOT mandatory and that is a HUGE difference. I have opted to not vaccinate at all because the concern of the side effects, including DEATH (check the PDR on EACH one) far outweighs the concern of my son getting one of the diseases that they are supposed to prevent. The problem is is that vaccines were created when most of the conditions were on their way out. IT makes them LOOK like they were the heroes in stopping the conditions, but what it is now doing is creating ATYPICAL strains of each of the viruses. There are no vaccines against these. Not to mention that they are STILL laced with formaldehyde (a known carcinogenic and mercury). You will hear that the vaccines no longer contain mercury, but the truth of it is that there is NO company who is going to through out BILLIONS of dollars of merchandise just because a few people complained. There are no long term studies done on these vaccines before they are introduced to the public. The FDA does NO testing, but relies upon the manufacturers to provide a good or bad rating... do you see the conflict of interest on this one?
Every parent has a choice to vaccinate or not. You simply fill out the waver when the time goes for your child to go to school. There are some parents who do only some vaccines and not others... some spread them out further. Some wait until the child goes to school to start. We are all over the place when it comes to these foreign compounds. I advise you to not only keep seeking a doctor who will meet your families needs, but to further your research. Do NOT ask your doctor for information against vaccinating. You will continue to get the same response. After all, the vaccines are the sacred cow of the medical field. Here are a couple of great sources : The Sanctity of Human Blood by Dr. Tim O'Shea (he practices in San Jose!) and www.thinktwice.com
I, too, was with Kaiser. They are a huge mega-corporation. YOU have to be the strong one. You have every right to say NO or WAIT. This is YOUR child. I had many pediatricians give me the "bad Parent" speech. IF you go in educated on the topic and can give them information, some of which they don't know, you have a stronger leg to stand on. Good luck and if you want to pick my brain... feel free to write back! :)

We see Dr. Amnon Goodman at Kaiser SF. He is not a supporter per se, but is supportive... even offering to split up the MMR vaccine without me even asking for it (after battling with my last health plan for years to give me access to the split up vaccines!). You can find flexible doctors at Kaiser... just keep looking.

As for the person's comment about you putting your little one's life in danger by not immediately getting all the vaccines on schedule, all I can say is that if there was to be a particular outbreak in the Bay Area I would get my kid that specific vaccination right away and keep him home from school until it was effective. So really, those of us who vaccinate but don't follow the recommended schedule are weighing the ridiculously remote chance that OUR CHILD will be the first one in the Bay Area to contract a rare disease, versus the unknown side effects of following the recommended schedule and pumping our kids full of dozens of vaccines in the first few years of their lives.

Each parent ultimately needs to decide whether they trust the vaccine schedule or not, then get as informed as possible about how to protect your family and the rest of society if you decide not to follow the CDC's directives.

And lastly, we really need to respect each other on this issue. I have tons of friends who vaccinate on schedule, and I think they are wonderful, caring parents. We are all trying to do our best for our kids and for public health in general.

Hi L.- I have an awesome doctor who backed up our home birth, decisions to trim down and stretch out vaccinations as well as little stuff like not jumping to antibiotics when their sick etc. He's in Salinas so won't work for you but I wanted to offer encouragement. Keep looking, there is a Physician out there who will work with you and respect your decisions about the health of your son. Our family takes an active and informed roll in all health decisions and with two awesome, healthy girls now 10 & 6 I have absolutely no regrets. You're on the right track, just keep looking for someone who "gets it". If you need to use a doctor in the mean time that may not be your first pick just remember that the doctor is working for your family and the final decision about health care is up to you and your husband. Good luck and enjoy your new son!

Our Pedi is in Pleasanton Dr. McCreery. We chose not to do most of the vaccinations for our twin girls (now 2.5). He was supportive of us. We have not had any hassle with him. He has respected our decision and has let us decide when and what vaccinations we will give our children. We have only done Hib, Pneumococcal and Hepititis A. We did a lot of research and decided against all of the others, for now at least, we may think more about it after they turn 3. Dr. McCreery has never insisted that we do the others and has allowed us to chose what we wanted. Pleasanton may be far off from Vallejo, but this Dr. is totally worth it. He is wonderful, and he remembers you and your children.

Check everything out but remember that vaccinations have saved not just millions of lives but billions of lives.

It is also helpful to come prepared to support your requests with something that carries some medical. professional weight like the alternative vaccination schedule available in Dr. Sears, The Vaccine Book. Dr. Sears doesn't advocate skipping/avoiding vaccination, but does have very sensible proposals about changes to the schedule that may help to protect our vulnerable kids.

Hi L.-
That's terrible! I have a co-worker who's daughter's ever only got the basics they absolutely had to have in order to go to school. She is very much the naturalist and her family is extremely healthy. I would suggest going online and searching undre Kaiser's info for a doctor who studies or has studied homeopathic medicine or is (I think they are called) a D.O. They are doctors of Osteopathic medicine who are fully aware of modern medicine and capable of using it but prefer to go a little more natural when at all possible. I went to Google and typed in Oseopathic Doctor Kaiser and it brought up all sorts. You might be able to check through their website as well, or even call your local center and tell them you are looking for a doctor that has studied it.
Hope this helps and good luck!

CPS!!?? WHATEVER!!! our three docs have always accommodated us in being flexible with the schedule. there ARE docs out there you'll find.

I use Dr. Stacie Walton, in Hayward with no problems & no vaccinations.

We see Dr. Abhay Dandekar @ Kaiser Oakland. He is very respectful of our decisions as parents and we do not plan to start vaccinations until our daughter is 2. (we, too, had a home birth, as well).

I don't have any recommendations for Vallejo but when faced with the same concern, I did a word search on every pediatrician taking new patients - looking for the word "holistic" on their web page. I only found two in my area - but they're both great (I chose one in Walnut Creek, my friend chose the other in Oakland). If you don't find the word "holistic" in their web page, you may find other clues that they'd be open to alternative vaccination schedules.

As for the pedi that suggested he might have to report you to CPS - I would seriously call Kaiser and report him as this is clearly unethical conduct. There's nothing illegal about wanting an alternative schedule. And, you are well within your rights to want one!!! I would consider his comment a type of coersion which I don't think is ethical. Seriously - I'd call Kaiser and complain!!!! Think of how many other parents he's manipulating (by fear) into giving vaccinations in a way that he cannot GUARANTEE will not harm your child! And it's not that you didn't even want to give them at all - you simply want an alternative schedule!!! He should be the one to be reported, not you!

Also - it is not true that vaccinations are only effective if given on the current schedule. I've read the manufacturer's inserts to confirm this (I wanted the information straight from the horse's mouth, as they say). Of course, the vaccinations aren't 100% until all doses are completed (and, even then, they're not 100% effective). But, as you probably already know, you can have the same important vaccinations complete by 6 months of age in a safer manner than currently practiced. There's not a huge difference between doing the 2, 4, 6 month schedule vs. the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 month schedule - except one big difference which is that the latter one is safer. (And, as long as your child is at home with you and breastfeeding, don't feel rushed to follow the mainstream schedule - you have time to find a doctor that will respect your decisions as a parent. My daughter stays home, is breastfed and probably won't resume the vaccinations until 9 or 12 months. I was pressured into doing the first 2 shots at 2 months against my better intuition. But haven't done any since then, thanks to the support of friends to wait until I'm comfortable. Of course, it would've been a completely different story if she was in daycare - then I would've been sure to have completed the vaccinations on the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 month schedule.)

I believe vaccinations are important but can be done more safely than the current schedule. Good for you for educating yourself. Like another mother suggested, it's best to rely on your own research than anyone else's - including the doctor's. I know that's daunting, but it's true. It can be overwhelming but it sounds like you've already found the balance you want to take and just need to find a doctor to support you in that. The pedi I found is in Walnut Creek (Shadelands) - Dr. Arsenault.

Good luck!

Hi,

We have been seeing NP Beth Willer in Kaiser Walnut Creek since my daughter was born. She is now 7 and we have been consistently happy with her. She will work with you on what you feel is best for your child. She will also give you her phone number which is unheard of at kaiser.

Good Luck,

B.