Still Needing Advice on Freshman Girl Who Will Not Hand in Her Work

The most important thing for your neice to understand is that you nor anyone else is going to be taking care of her when she is 21. She is going to have to take care of herself. She needs to have a clear grasp on life after she is no longer dependent. I don't mean that you want to scare her, but give her a healthy dose of reality.

Money does not grow on trees, it comes from hard work. The better your job, the more money you will make. There is a direct correlation between your level of education and your economic status. Children today only know what they see on TV and in movies and have a hard time discerning those images from reality. I think offering her a car for getting straight A's didn't work because it's a bribe with an empty promise. A car doesn't last forever....but an education will. Somehow she needs to get the message that she should do well in school because it's the right thing to do, not because of a bribe.

Take her to McDonalds for an entire afternoon and have her watch the workers. Notice how they are sweating in their polyester uniforms, working near heat and grease. Notice how they run around. How they have to wash windows, clean toilets, and mop floors. Point out to her how many of the workers are not high school kids with an after-school job; but that many are middle-aged and even older. Make sure she truly understands what it's like to spend 40 hours a week there. (not fun)

Then, at home with a calculator and a piece of paper, have her do the math. What is a the weekly salary a person working for minimum wage actually brings home? After taxes, FICA, and legal deductions. Once she has that number, have her find apartments in the newspaper that correspond to what the take-home pay is. Once she has four or five apartments that fit the budget, drive her over to those neighborhoods so she can see what they're like.

When she has done this, have her create a realistic budget (with your help) for rent, utilities, insurance, a car payment with insurance, groceries, clothes--only the basic necessities in life. Have her make a graph or a chart so that it is glaringly apparent what it costs to live, even in a meager apartment in a not-so-great area. Pont out that there is no money left for entertainment, cable TV, cute clothes, vacations, etc.

Your only other task in helping her with this dose of reality, is to point out that if she is perfectly content to try to live on minimum wage and work like a dog until she is 68 years old, then she should continue not caring about school. However, if she prefers to live in decent accomodations, own a vehicle that does not break down every month,eat better than canned vegetables, and have some fun once in a while, she'll need to buckle down.

From here, you just tell her simply:

"You're too old for me to be riding you all the time. If you need help at school, with organization, or with studying, I and your teachers are here for you. But it has to be your choice. You're old enough to understand the consequences of your actions. So if you choose not to do well in school, you're choosing a certain life-style. That is your choice to make. Just as long you understand that you can do things the easy way, or you can make things harder on yourself. Working hard now is actually easier than working menial labor until you're too old to enjoy retirement."

I think once she understands the correaltion between education and socio-economic status, she will make the right choice. Plus a great lesson will be learned, and I think kids learn more when it is perceived to be their idea rather than adults telling them what to do.

Another thing--don't focus so much on individual grades as her overall improvement and whether or not she's learning.

Finally, I think discipline should be relative. Making her wear the same outfit 2x in one week doesn't have anything to do with school. Put her on a schedule--no phone, computer or tv until homework is finished. No weekends socializing unless homework is done or at least accounted for. Make her eat a proper breakfast every day and she needs at least nine hours of sleep. Have every teacher move her to the center of the front row in every class.

I know this sounds like a lot but I really believe it will work. Good luck!

L.,

I think I can relate a little more to your niece, being that I am 25 yrs old and had a very similar past. My mom was always told by my teachers that I was more than capable of doing the work required of me and that I was brighter than most of the students there. As a freshman, when I started bringing home grades much like your nieces, my mom threatened to sit in the back of the class to make sure I listened, or put me on "restriction" from the phone, tv, friends ect., My parents promised they would buy me any car I wanted when I turned 17 if I brought home straight A's.That did not happen. I too, had a much similar resonse to my mom when she asked why I was doing so poorly in class', "Well, maybe I need to pay more attention, not be so social in class and maybe sit in the front of the class instead." None of those tactics seemed to help my situation. She had me talk to a psychologist which helped a little, it was someone i could open up to about all the trials and tribulations of being a "teenager" without bias remarks. But the one thing that saved my academic future was transfering to an alternative school. I was taken out of the regular public school, which I clearly did not have much success in and went to a private catholic school, this was worse for me, I think because I was one who did not like to feel "controled". The alternative school I went to is called Daniel C Oakes High School. I suggest you look it up on the internet and read the parent/student reviews. For myself, I was able to gain respect, appreciation, acknowledgment and friendship from students AND the teachers. If your niece is not helping herself in making the necesary changes to recieve the grades she is capable of, then she may excel in an atmosphere where she is "heard" and more one-on-one attention is offered for bright minds such as hers. I certainly did. The curriculum offered is comparable to a public school if not greater. I hope you have been able to gain some insite and optimism in your nieces future.

Kindly,

C.

MY BEST RESPONSE, YOU ARE ADDRESSING THE SURFACE, BUT NOT
GETTING ANSWERS REGARDING WHAT IS BEHIND THE BEHAVIOR. THIS TAKES HAVING EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATIONS WITH HER.

I AM OPEN TO GIVE YOU SOME SUGGESTIONS HOW TO APPROACH
THIS SITUATION AS A PRACTICING PSCHOLOGIST. I WOULD
RATHER 'TALK' IT, THAN 'WRITE IT'. IF YOU WOULD WANT
TO CALL ME, AT NO COST TO YOU, I SUGGEST THE FOLLOWING:
SEND ME AN E MAIL, MINE IS: ____@____.com TELEPHONE: ###-###-####. SEND ME AN E MAIL, TELLING
ME YOUR #, THE BEST TIME TO CALL YOU, AND I WILL RESPOND
GIVING YOU SOME SUGGESTIONS REGARDING YOUR OPTIONS. THIS
IS NOT INTENDED TO SOLICIT A CLIENT. I AM VOLUNTEERING
MY TIME, BECAUSE I CARE.

MY BEST, N. J ANDREW PhD

L., you sound somewhat resentful that you now have the responsibility of raising your niece. Do you think that this may be coming across in your handling of her? Teens are a challenge under the best circumstances; and while I have no idea what transpired in this child's life to bring her to the point of not being with her parents and to be raised by an aunt, it probably isn't a "picnic" for her either. Perhaps you would both be eligible for counciling that may be able to assist both of you in adjusting to your new life together. She may just need validation that she is worthy of your love and is trying any way she can to get this validation. Sometimes children (yes, even teens) do unacceptable things just to get your attention. She may be trying to get you to participate in her life and this is the only way she can do it. Also, she may be dealing with emotional issues (even depression or is showing signs of AD) by being unable to carry out tasks to completion. I think you both would benefit from counceling.

my parents used to promise me money and a car when i was in highschool. it just made me think they were trying to buy me off. now that i'm older i get it but it just made me mad when i was that age. my advice would be to sit her down and let her know that you care about her and that you won't be offering her things anymore for good grades. they are her grades not yours and she needs to take responsibility for herself. tough love is probably the best answer. it was for me! Good luck...

That's a perfect description of what I was -- gifted and ADD, and the only things that kept me focused were one class hard enough to have me in tears a couple of times a month (not recommended as a steady diet, and most of my Honors and AP classes weren't enough to make a difference) and (and this is what I'd recommend you look at) study groups. When people came over to do homework with me, I wound up writing down the answers as we all figured them out, just because everybody else was writing, too.

She sounds like she's bright enough that at least some of the other kids would jump at a chance to get her help.

And yeah, the business of rewarding good behavior never worked for me, although my brother did pretty well the year Mom gave him some incredibly small amount of money (I think a nickel) for every assignment he handed in.

All the facts aren't clear yet on the surface it seems that you require your niece to perform to the highest possible standards (your standard apparently that only straight As will satisfy) before rewarding her for being someone you love no matter what. Is she rebellious and in the streets? Is she taking drugs or hanging out with the "wrong crowd?" If her negative behavior is only getting Fs that lower her in your eyes she can tell herself that you only love her "performance" when it validates you. Why not reward her for those 8 A's just for fun? After all, it may be that in her mind she knows she still has a C average and that's what she wants, to be "average" at this time, not a brainy nerd (at least in her eyes or the eyes of her school mates. It could be that she's getting flak at school for being so A-like). Just a thought.

A couple things come to mind. There's also some awesome advice in what other Moms have written!

You mentioned making her wear the same two outfits to school... I don't think embarrasment is going to be your answer. She's obviously smart enough to figure out you have to give that up at some point and she'll just "suffer" thru. When you do, she will have confirmed that she can outwit you and you don't really want to promote that cycle!

I like the idea of seeing if she's ADD, bored or a perfectionist. All those can be easily overcome! A cute planner you let her pick out to keep track of assingments - then review it with her each evening. Help her learn how to manage this, instead of just rewards for the end result. Time learning with you may be reward enough (after she gets done protesting).

I don't know how you ended up raising her, but maybe she's scared of getting too close and is willing to use her grades as a wedge to keep you two from having a close relationship? It sure sounds like it's working at maintaining a certain level of stress and agitation in the household. You may want to consider councelling for you both, not just for her at school? If you have a church home, they should be able to help you find someone qualified.

And just keep loving her... you're going to win by loving her. Showing her love even when others might think she's unlovable. By doing so, you will set her up for a lifetime of knowing she's worthy of being loved. By the right man, by her children, and by God!

I'd also recommend the book "Truly loving your teenager". It's a classic. Talks about ways to love with healthy contact, discipline & communication. Highly recommended.

Hang in there - she obviously needs a good person influencing her life, what a blessing you have- that opportunity to be the one who can make a difference!

T.

Dear L.,
Your story sounds very familiar. My son, now 22, drove me crazy when he was in high school. He is borderline genius IQ, but also ADD. My son is far from being a perfectionist, but he hates to be embarrassed. I knew that his teacher's were ready to expel him for being disruptive in class, mainly for talking. After talking to his English teacher, which seemed to be the class he was doing the worst, I decided to surprise him one day by sitting at the back of his class. He was a junior and a big ol' boy. The other kids figured out real quick who I was, and my son was mortified. At first, he thought I was there for a parent-teacher conference, but when I got comfortable at the back of the room, he was dead silent. His teacher was tickled pink. He had block scheduling, so the class was 1 1/2 hours long. I was bored out of my mind, but it was so worth it. Afterward, I walked him to his tennis class down the hallway for all the rest of his friends to see. He didn't want to speak to me for days after this, but it made an impression. A big one! I had taken off of work 40 miles away to be there at his school to do that. I told him I had discussed it with my boss and I was able to go everyday for as long as I needed to in order to make sure he didn't talk in class. I was bluffing, but he didn't know it. I was a nervous wreck I would lose my job, but he was more important. So, the point is he shut his mouth. His work started getting turned in on time. The boy who sat next to him whom my son said was the instigator of all of his problems magically didn't remain a problem anymore. He has NEVER forgotten the day mom showed up at high school and his friends still give him hell over it once in awhile, but it helped. He was never an A or B student, even though he probably could have been if he'd really tried. His brain didn't work that way. My ex-husband would not support my pleas to put our son on medication, so he learned to cope without it. He hated school. My goal was to see him graduate. He was thrilled to settle for 11th from the bottom of the class of 200. But, by golly, he graduated!!! Good luck!

Wow. That's me in a nutshell. I'm now a grown adult who had all the same issues your great niece has now. Like one of the other posters, my first year of college was a failure. That is despite the fact that I scored incredibly well on every test I could take (IQ, SAT, ACT, etc). I too would do my work and not always turn it in. My grades in classes were just like your nieces'.

Yelling, threatening, and grounding really didn't help me at all. I was grounded for most of my junior high & high school time and it did not help. her brain is wired differently than yours is. I am 32 with 2 kids of my own and I still struggle with the same things. I was constantly told I was lazy and that I needed to get with the program and just do it.

Your post is going to prompt me to get help for ADD as after reading all the posts here, I may have the same issue. If it works for me, I will seek the same for my son as he has the same issues as your niece and I do.

Thank you for bringing this discussion to the table. Hopefully, it helps your niece and it may have helped others (including me) as well!!

:)

As a grandmother raising a grandson (teenager) I can tell you that all the parenting skills I thought I had and had worked with my kids were not enough. Needed to learn what goes on today. You have no idea how many decisions these kids have to make throughout the school day. They are hit from everywhere, TV, Internet, Peers, etc. You cannot lock them away from it. What you can do is start parenting and not controlling. Much of what you say is about your frustrations, expectations, etc. What about her? She's either overwhelmed or just can't handle everything. She needs you to be there to help, not criticize. My gs has an extremely high IQ. That doesn't guarantee he'll be the best student. I also have to ask why you are raising her. If she has been through loss, you need to consider she might be grieving that loss and acting out because she does not know how to handle it. I would be glad to talk to you further since I have been through. I also have been doing a lot of research for a book I am writing about kids who are being raised by family members. It's been very eye opening.

Hi L.,

You sure have some terrific responses here. I do not know whether or not your niece has ADD but in case she does I have something to say. One thing I would like to add that might make you smile, Albert Einstein was classically symptomatic of ADD.

I have quite a bit of experience with ADD. I have it and so does my daughter. Neither one of us were particularly good at paying attention in school. I forgot my homework every day of my life until college. So did my daughter.

My feeling is that our institutions are ill equipped to teach ADD kids. Large, busy schools, changing classes every 50 minutes, abstract concepts being taught without practical demonstration, busywork that gets graded, emphasis on rule following and de-emphasis on imaginative processes all contribute to the so called "failure" of ADD kids. But we are not failures. What we are is creative people with rich intellect who typically have something interesting going on in our imaginations that distract us from the everyday world.

You cannot teach an ADD child by insisting she pay attention to the world outside of her imagination. You have to capture that imagination and then she will soak up every word you say like a coral reef. You need to find teachers, find a school that will work with her talents and her interests. They must always, always integrate learning with her imagination. It would be best if she did not have to change classes too often. Still better if she could be in small classes of 10 or fewer students. You great niece will learn and excel to places you may never expect or imagine if her school can manage to take the time to engage her in learning rather than to attempt to administer teaching to her.

Also, tell them to stop grading her busywork. They should be grading her on what she has learned, not whether or not she has turned in every last cross-word puzzle. School authorities have bellowed to me about "the real world" and how doing your daily work is important. But in the real world people have clear projects that their work contributes to but homework is often extremely removed from anything that you can get your imagination around.

Good Luck and Take Care,
L. S.

L., I have a 13 year old that sounds exactly the same as your neice. Her teachers told us for years that she was fully capable of making strait As but often just gave up or had the "I have better things to do" attitude. About a year and a half ago I had her diagnosed with ADD. My family (and sometimes myself) was totally against the idea of medication. Most of the kids I had seen who were on medication for ADHD were like zombies when they were on it and got good grades but when they were taken off they were so wired that noone could handle being around them. I didnt want that for my daughter. But the counselor that my daughter was seeing recommended that we check into the newer medications to go along with the tools that she was giving her. There are many tools out there for people with the same problems. My daughter was taught the OHIO method for dealing with her homework because she was constantly loosing the work she had done. O-only H-handle I-it O-once OHIO-as soon as she finishes her work, she was told, "dont put it down and come back to it later, put it strait into your homework folder". I spoke to her pediatrician about meds and she suggested Concerta. She said that if we did not like the results, take her off of it. We started her on the medicine and it has been a gift from god for her. Her grades went from C's and D's to A's and B's and she is still as vibrant as she ever was. We do not give it to her on weekends, holidays, or during the summer. I have only one question: What is so wrong with going on a medication that you have to be on for the rest of your life. If you have high cholesterol (not weight related but family genes) what is wrong with taking meds to bring it down (along with the proper diet). This is not that different.

I remember when I was a teen. I was a good student...capable of doing good and making good grades, but I just didn't want to do it. Maybe that is how is feels. Its not that its hard or anything, but it might be time consuming and too easy that she kind of puts it on the back burner or doesn't really care. Perhaps spending some time with her on her homework to make sure she gets it done and seeing if she turns it in might help. Hope that helps.

L.,
Well, you could do this also.. If the teacher has an email, maybe you could get her to email her homework to the teacher. Just till she finds that it will work better if she hands it in..Or, if you pick her up everyday, might get there earlier and remind her to take back her work and give it to the teacher while you are with her. This sometimes embarrasses her and she will start leaving it so you wouldn't come in and be with her.. Bribing them doesn't always work. Threatening them doesn't either.. When you embarrass them, they will do anything to make you stop. Even if you show up to each class she needs to turn in. It will be hard at first, but, when she sees you there to make her give it to the teacher NOW while Im standing here, she will grow tired of it.
Shirley

If none of that worked. You have to show her that you mean business and go to the school in front of all her friends and make her turn her homework in. This might imbearace her to turn her homework in without you being there. If you don't take care of this now just think what the next 3 years will bring. i had to do this with my daughter and it worked for 3 years then her senior year she got lazy again. But it is worth trying.

Hi L.,
I have a 14 yo son who has ADHD and ODD (Obstinace Defiance Disorder) means he will do all he can to do the opposite of what i say. Now i am not saying that is what is going on, I have read most of the responses you have gotten and most of them say the ADHD or ADD.
There are many factors to look at. The F's are in what class, does she like the class, is something bothering her in that class, or is she really not wanting to do her work in it.
Asking for straight A's is a stiff request and she may just not want to get an A in that class. Some kids pick on the straight A students so she may not want to be picked on, or she has friends who are not and she is trying to be like them.
Remind her that even if the work is not all done, some is better than nothing. After she gets it back and still wants to improve it that is her option.
Make sure to give what you promise be it a reward or a punishment, but i would hold off on the car for many reasons, expense, distractions, safety, you know.
I have a 14 yo who refuses to turn in his work always, and yes we know he can do it, he takes the tests and pass with high grades, but fails the class for the lack of homework, so i can understand where you are coming from.
My advise would be, talk to her about the classes she is failing and what is happening in them, remind her some is better than none, watch her for the signs of depression, and encourage her to do her best, Even if it is not an A.
Good luck and stay strong.

L.,

I'm sorry I don't have time to read all the responses but I wanted to make sure that you know there is a drug out there that is not addicting for ADD. My son has been on it since September 07 and is doing great. It is Vyvance. He takes it only on school mornings. He also started having serious problems in school at an early age and was suspected of having ADD and I never did anything. He is now suppose to be a Senior and is so far behind he will not graduate until next year. If I had put him on medication earlier he would have been able to graduate with his class. This school year he has made A's & B's, the first time in his life. We are grateful to his psychiatrist, Dr. Richard Pesikoff in the Houston area. He has helped him tremendously.

This age is very difficult for girls and the most important thing that she needs right now is to be understood. Most girls and women are too hard on themselves and put tremendous pressure on themself to succeed. It is important to first not be so hard on yourself and understand that you are doing a great job and that the choices she makes is her responsibility not yours. Forcing the issue causes only friction which will then lead to disconnect between you two. Take time for yourself to relax and let go of the worries. Spend time in prayer asking for wisom and guidance. The answers will then come to you and you can approach this in a more positive way so that there can be harmony and peace within the family again. Also take time to listen to how she really feels without interupting. Try repeating back to her what you heard her say so that she can feel understood. This does not mean that you agree with what she is saying, it means that you are taking the time to truely listen and understand her which is the greatest gift anyone can give to a child. Start taking time for you and enjoy life knowing that this all will pass. Blessings and joy to you and your family! A. A (Mind, Body & Spirit Life Coach)

I understand completely my daughter goes through the same thing, it is frustrating, my daughter is 15 athletic and very intelligent, I think that it is all growing pains, when they are social they are popular, so they are going through a very awkward time now be patient stay strong and don't give up or give in stand your ground and she will come around.

Mother of a 15 year old and a 13 month old. Talk about starting over and having a new perspective
T.

Sound like my daughter to a tee. No reward great enough and no punishment stiff enough to overrule the instant whatever it happens to be. My daughter was diagnosed with ADD in 6 th grade. Try involving her in activity and keeping her busy it seems to help -- the less "free time" or unscheduled time my daughter has the better focused she is. When there is a break between seasons we have trouble even with medicaton

L., I think that she is more than capable of completing her work, but I wouldn't tell her that I was coming. I would just go and visit her classes. I believe it would embarass her enough to make her stop. Is there a boy that she likes in the classes that she is doing poorly in? Sometimes we do things to try and impress the opposite sex.

Just some food for thought....

My 13 year old is very similar. Iunfortunatly I don't have a great answer. My thoughts are that there is something happening in those classes that she is failing. There is some sort of influence there. It could be the teacher or more than likely there are HOT BOYS or too many friends in that class that keep her from showing how smart she really is. So I guess my recommendation is to do some deeper reserch to try to find the root of the problem. Remember being a teenager is a very hard time. You are trying to find yourself and fit in.
C.

Have you ever considered that she may have Attention Deficit Disorder, Inattentive Type? This is the most common type in girls and frequently missed, especially in very bright kids, who sail through elementary school, start having difficulty in Middle School, then High School gets really tough. I'd predict that she gets A's in what she really likes and F's in subjects that don't particularly interest her. You might consider getting an evaluation.

I agree with Wendy P and hope you haven't overlooked her take on this.
(Wendy wrote "...It was more like peer pressure. I found out that many of the so called smart kids ...decided it wasn't "cool" to do their homework...")
I substitute teach and see students who put so little effort in to doing classwork - or don't bother at all!. When I discussed my experiences as a sub with my teenagers (one of whom is very motivated - one less so) they both told me that some kids don't want to seem smart in front of their friends..."It's not cool!"
Hopefully discussing the long term, natural consequences of not learning will help motivate your niece. I stress the importance of having knowledge first, then good grades for getting into a "good" college. Good luck!

We had the same problem with my step-son. I made a worksheet up with all of his classes on it. On Fridays, he had to bring this home signed by all of his teachers or be grounded for the weekend. The teachers would tell us if there were any missing assignments. My step-son didn't like doing this so he started turning in his work so he wouldn't be grounded for the weekend. Hope this helps.

I have a 21 and 14 year old daughter, my daughter seems to have grades like your freshman. Two thoughts, one, is she a perfectionist, (who would want to be on time) or is she easily distracted, and having test aniety?

Dear L.,
I sympathize greatly with you. My daughter, now 48, was the same way. The teachers told me the same thing about her, but when I asked for their help in what to do, I was given a shrug of the shoulders. By the way, she ended up dropping out of high school, but realized her error and did get her GED. She married and had five beautiful children, went through some rough years and is now settling into her grandmother role being very happy. This is not the entire path I would have liked to see her take. If I could do it again, I would make sure the teachers were challenging her, talk to a guidance counsellor and get his/her input as to solutions. If nothing works, then you may have to accept the fact that at this point she doesn't care. At 16, she knows what is expected of her by her teachers and you. You will need to stop taking the responsibility for her. Allow her to accept the consequences of not handing her work --- a failing grade. Keep the disciplinary actions in place, i.e. missed assignment - no phone for a week, etc. But don't threaten, cajole, or act like it is a big deal. Just reiterate this is her problem not yours and this is the way it will be. If she fails, it is her failure not yours. She'll survive. I admit this is tough to do and I wish I had had the resources to handle my daughter this way, but no one back then told me. I now have a 16 year old grandson living with me because he wants to continue high school in our district. It has worked for me with him. Good luck and DON'T BLAME YOURSELF! J. B

Switch gears and come from the other side. Come from calm love rather than angry punishments that turn up empty anyway. Tell her that she is the only one that can control her future. What does she want to do in life? You cannot make her care about turning things in, so you need to try to nurture her desire to want to turn things in. Sounds like there may be some perfectionist tendencies and there may be a fear from that. Does she desire to go to college? She may not be there yet in her mind. Maybe visit a college she would be interested in and let her know that her grades do matter. not much help sorry....

I think you need to take the approach of counseling with her, sounds like she's going through something. You may NEVER know what goes through a child's mind at her age. Quit trying to bribe her, meet her where she's at...where ever that might be. Try the school counselor to see if he/she might be able to help pick her brain & if that doesn't help try an outside one. Sound's like you both could use it..good luck to you & be BLESSED!

Congratulations for taking on your great neice. No greater love than caring for a child. May God Bless YOU! Your neice sounds like she has many different issues. I am not a doctor, but since she has lost her parents and grandparents she is most likely dealing with a great deal of grief. I just lost my 86 year old dad and I have felt that way for the last couple of months. Praise God I have an understanding boss. My hubby is ADD and the symptoms sound the same. Don't be afraid of the med. I used to be, now that he is on it...we have stayed married - for 10 years. Teach her the way she should go, but let her make the choices and live with the consequences good and bad. That is the only way she will make it after she leaves your home.

Take Care and God Bless!

There may be some underlying issues with her (I'm assuming something happened that caused you to be raising her). Has she had any counseling? Even school counseling might help. It could be any number of things -- maybe even a little depression. My son does this sort of thing -- it is frustrating - especially when they've actually done the work! One report card he had an A, B, C, D, F! I said, "Well, at least he is well-rounded . . ." The school counselors can be very helpful in giving your niece techniques to help her with this and also to determine if this is a symptom of something bothering her emotionally.

It is totally frustrating to have someone with a lot of potential not live up to it. DON'T reward her with a car when she needs to work first.

Our daughter went through this year after year. At the beginning of the year we would let her new teacher(s) know that she would do the work and not hand it in, so please let us know if she doesn't hand it in. If we sign that she has done her work, we have seen it, so she just hasn't handed it in. I would remind her every morning when dropping her off at school that she needed to hand it in and that if I received any calls that she wasn't handing in her work I would walk with her to class and see to it that she handed it to her teacher. She was in Jr. High and each year starts the same, but she gets in the routine and we no longer have to remind her of handing in her work. A friend that is a therapist said we were doing the right thing, since her work was done and she just needed reminding to hand it in. Persistence seems to be the key.

Good Luck!
B.

you really cant make them be responcible or force them to do there work ontime,wish it was that simple.but buying a car for good grades might bite you in the butt.she would only get it done for the car and then be irrasponcible with the car m talking from you buy and not respect that you got it for her.my daughter is a talker and not responcible so i'm not going to expect to change her but she can walk where she wants.

My 14-year-old seems to get A's in the classes he likes and C's in the classes he doesn't. He says a C is average. I say it means he's not trying hard enough. Last semester we took his X-Box 360 away because he got a C. He didn't care. The only thing that is working with him right now is that we have a spring vacation planned with one of his friends for the end of March. If he gets a C in ANY class, we are not going (we'll just have to use the airplane tickets at another time). I've never seen him work so hard! Good luck, and stay sane :)

My son was the same way. Don't worry about it. If your great niece is smart, which apparently she is, she will ace the SAT/ACT or whatever college entrance tests she takes. On that basis, she will be able to go to a good college or university - maybe not the top echelon, but good enough. In college, there is not so much emphasis on homework for the sake of homework. My son had so-so grades through high school (the A's on tests balanced with F's for homework not turned in) but got nearly straight A's in college, and went on to land a great job in his chosen career (software engineering). Rather than focus on grades, you might explore with your niece WHY she won't do homework, and then talk with her about how those personality traits affect her life in general. For example, is she a perfectionist? Does she procrastinate? Is it a power struggle/control issue? Try to focus on her strengths and help her be HER best self. Not every personality type fits the mold of our educational system, so try not to beat her up for something that is not really her fault nor a true problem in the long run.

Does she have a day planner? If not I would buy one immediately. That way when she has an assignment she can write down when it is due; she can look each day to see what has to be turned in. You can check her planner to ensure that she is writing down when the projects are due. If you check this each day, and verbally remind her as well, this will help her to utilize this to keep track of when projects are due. Once I started my son on a day planner, I never had to remind him again. He became responsible and kept track of what was due and when. If your school has a website where the teachers post assignments, that is one way to keep track as well. But the day planner helps them to form good habits to utilize for college or for a profession. Hope this helps.

L.
YOU NEED TO GIVE HER A LITTLE SPACE FRESHMAN YEAR IS VERY DIFFICULT,ALONG WITH MATURITY,FINDING OUT WHO YOU ARE, NEW FRIENDS ETC. YOU YOURSELF STATE HOW BRIGHT SHE IS, BE THERE FOR HER LISTEN, AND SHE WILL GET BACK ON TRACK.TRUST AND SEE WHAT IS DISTRACTING HER.. MAKING HER WEAR THE SAME OUTFIT IS BOGISH, I SOMETIMES WONDER WHY WE AS PARENTS HURT ARE KIDS AND ALL WE ACCOMPLISH IS PUSHING THEM AWAY TO THE STREETS. lOVE HER AND THE MAIN THING LISTEN..

From what you say about your great niece it sounds like she is very smart and a perfectionist. She may not turn her work in because she thinks she has some answers wrong and would reather get an F for nothing than a C and have tried. She may see turning in a paper she thinks may not be an A as a potential failure. It doesn't sound like she can handle failure when she has put forth effort as she may feel it will make her look stupid (we know it won't). Her papers may still be A worthy to her teachers, but if she's a perfectinist & they are lacking "something" in her eyes she may not fell it's worthy of turning in. It's easier to handle failure when you haven't tried than to try and fail for some people. Have the teachers put too much emphasis on her being the "smart" kid? Sometimes a teacher is trying to encourage a child but it turns into pressure for the child.

Hi L.,
I just wanted to chime in really quickly. first I want to say that I am not telling you that you should put her on any meds, I just want to share our story.
My daughter is 15 and is ADD not ADHD...!!!
She was on meds from 4th thru 7th grade. We tried no meds for most of 8th grade and she and we were miserable! (Sounds a lot like your niece!) SOOOOOO disorganized, horrible hand writing, could not focus! Failed math!
She is now in 9th grade. She has been on concerta 54mg this year. She is a straight A student. (Algebra is a 98!) She is so much happier and so are we without all the fighting.
I want to add that she will not have to be on medication her entire life, but while she is in school she wants the help to pay attention. We want the boost in her self esteem!
We fought the idea of meds for a long time. We have been houseparents/fosterparents for 13 years and have seen tons of kids on meds. Some needed them, some didn't, but we did not have a choice. With her we fought the idea for a long time until we finally talked to her pediatrician in 4th grade. He suggested trying and seeing how it went. Within a week the hours of fighting and sitting at the kitchen table for hours to do two pages of math were over! WOW! What a life change for her and for us. It really helped our relationship also because we weren't fighting over school all the time anymore!
Just thought I would share my 2 cents!!!
(We don't do meds during the summer... she just needs it for school!)
I hope this helps!
Blessings,
C.: mom to two by birth and five foster children... all from God!

John Rosemond has a book called "Ending the Homework Hassle". I haven't read that particular one, but all his other books have been fantastic. He believes in kids being personally responsible, as you won't be there to push her along in a job, or college...

DON'T totally shut off the idea of medicine. My son is gifted - "high superior" iq, but has ADHD (primarily inattentive) so I know what you're dealing with. He saw a psychologist for a while, and though our long-term goal is to have him medicine free, he takes it now, and it is a GOD SEND! I would go insane if not for it. Not only does it help him with his schooling, it helps him with him impulse control and social skills. You may want to reconsider...

Sitting in the back of her classes will only add to any resentment she may hold towards you, and it most likely will not positively modify her behavior so I personally would not advocate that as a tactic.

When it comes to high school and grades, I think that a big motivating factor is college. I would suggest engaging her about what she is interested in pursuing in the future, and just letting her know that her grades can affect those goals if her future plans will include college (ex: if she wants to find a decent paying job (unemployment rate is high right now!), if she wants to venture into a specific profession like teaching). She is going to make decisions for herself whether you approve or not... all you can do is continue to support her, try to instill your insight and hope you are able to give her some guidance.

Good luck!

HI L.,
First let me say what an awesome woman you are to take on this challenge. Your Neice is a very lucky young lady, and some day she will come to realize that.
This is such a horrible age to deal with, particularily for girls. I have a 17 year old, not with ADD, just stuborn and goofy. Of course every parent/guardian wants thier children to excell, but not to the point where you are beating your head against the wall. If this is the only thing your niece is doing wrong, your really quite lucky. I'm not saying to stop with the disciplin, but maybe lighten up just a little. It is really stupid to get a zero on things you just "forget" to turn in. Continue to watch her and check in with her teachers. I think what your neice needs now is knowing that you love her. It's such a tough age, and it sounds like she has been through quite a lot. I know that's not a lot of advice, just wanted you to know, it's like this with a lot of us, and it's not that the kids are bad, they are just testing the waters. So, be patient, but be firm. Godspeed.

Lighten up on her- she will pull it together- maybe she just likes/ needs the attention. I would just tell her to do her best and if she does, she will feel good about herself and be able to choose her own college. I would take her on a trip to local community colleges and show her what her poor scores would mean- not going to the school she wants. She would have to stay home for a year and not go away to college like her friends will be able to. that won't be fun for her. Maybe she wants community school and that will be a wake up call for her. she is still very young and maturing. no need to bribe her- just let her do what she wants and see how it goes. as a teacher, i think sometimes parents insist too much- let her learn her own lessons and find out about life for herself. she will learn her own pace. high school is hard enough for kids as it is- the pressure can make it worse. i had a lot of flexibility as a child and i did my best- i never got f's but my mom got me a tutor in the subject if i needed help. it seems she is smart so she can do it on her own... you can lead her to water, but can't make her do something. pray that she finds her way. i hope this helps. good luck.

I just joined this network so just read your request. It never lets me read what others wrote until I write something first and submit it, so you may be tired of responses or someone may have already written this, but here goes...
My daughter is the same way. She has been that way since elementary school. I used to have to have teachers send signed homework notes home that I would then sign and send back because if I didn't she would say she had none nd I would get notes from teachers a week before the semester end stating unless she turned in 40 pages of homework she would fail.
I did the same as you, took away dance which she had been in for 5 years and loved, after I warned her if she missed an assignment again I would yank her out. I even went to school and sat in her classes a couple of days when she was a senior. Nothing got through to her. She wasn't rebellious, she just didn't care at all. She could also tell you who was dating who and doing what but she could care less about what the teacher said. She is the opposite of the way I was in school. She has a form of dyslexia too which makes her reading slow, but she tested ahead of her grade verbally and has a very good memory for names. She claimed she wanted no help with homework because she wanted to do it herself, but then wouldn't do the homework. My friend has a stepson who is exactly the same way and so does a coworker. All 3 kids are Sagitarians. I don't believe in astrology but it is a funny coincidence.
Yes it drives you crazy. Yes you want to say they are old enough to accept the consequences of their actions and let them fail. But you can't, for their own good. She has to have at least a high school diploma or she won't earn squat. I have no advice on how to fix her, except you may want to have her evaluated to see if she needs counseling or antidepressant medication. My daughter had a hormone imbalance so that didn't help either so you may want to have her tested for that also. Try to be strong and stay on her because without YOU she is not not not going to make it out of high school. It is a grind and tiring and frustrating, but one day she will graduate and you can pat yourself on the back for not running screaming down the road like a lunatic. To keep your sanity you may have to repeat that to yourself again and again that every day is one day closer to graduation. I can empathize.

boy! i know what you are going through. my Freshman daughter is going through that same thing. what we did is made a folder for each class and on pockets put homework on one and the other put done/graded. and keep that and then when time for a test papers are all there. get them organized. if they get a book to put their assignments. make he do that daily or grounded. and till she can do extra things as far as with friends. then she has to prove that she is mature. a make sure she getting all things turned in and done. also does the school have a website that you van check and make sure things getting turned in?? if so do that too. Good luck. what school does she go to????????????????

I would get a list of her assignments and watch her do them. If she wants to act like a child, treat her like a child. When she can act like a responsible teen, then she can go back to a care free homework routine...until then, lay down the law, so to speak lol. Or if her school offers an after hours study hall...make her go until she realizes her homework and grades are important to you, and you will do whatever it takes to get her to apply herself.

Instead of taking things away, which is punishing, I would concentrate on postitive ways to get the result. You need to establish the reasons for her not handing in the homework. There are underlying issues, one you mentioned, her being a perfectionist, that need to be acknowledged before she can overcome them and start handing in her homework. She may need to see a counselor to figure it out. I had a friend who told her child she was going to go to class and watch her high school student turn in the homework. He didn't believe her and she did. He was so embarrased that he handed in his homework after that. I know that they are supposed to be handling that on their own by highschool but I would talk to the teachers everyday and find out what is due the next day and ask your niece the night before if it was done. The next day if it wasn't handed in let her know you are going with her to school to watch her hand it in. She has to know that she is still being held accountable to more than just herself. I have a son that punishment has never worked with, it just makes him behave worse as his stubborn streak wants to prove to me that I can't hurt him. So I have had to retrain myself to think in a positive reward way. He has learned that I don't want to hurt him but he will do what is expected of him. Good luck.

I would suggest making short term goals- maybe a week without missing her homework and she can pick somewhere special to go to dinner or a treat. My daughter had the same issue - she is almost 17. She will never be a straight A student but could be a strong B student if she followed through on every assignment. She is overwhelmed when looking at a quarter or semester but if we look at a week at a time she does much better. Of course, you may need the teacher's help on this to let you know every Friday how she has done.
Let her choose the reward for the week (within reason) sometimes it may be something very small that just interests her. Even if it is not having to do one of her weekly or daily chores - it may mean more to here than something more expensive.

I haven't read all the responses but here is my take on it. My son did the exact same thing and it was not ADD or any of the other popular "disorders". (I'm not saying they aren't real but they are extremely overdiagnosed in my opinion). It was more like peer pressure. I found out that many of the so called smart kids (this was in 7th grade at his school) decided it wasn't "cool" to do their homework. So my boy would do his (knowing I have one eye on what he's doing and he's basically a very good kid) and then go to school and not hand it in. !!!! He would then pretend that he forgot etc. It took a while to get to the bottom of it. I was aghast. But it became clear, and this is the hard part, that you can't make them do it by force! You have to get them to understand that they are undermining their own future. It took quiet alot of talks and yes disciplining although for us I think it was the comprehension that if he wanted to get into a decent high school he was going to have to do the work AND hand it in, cool or not. (by the way, most of the kids figured this out by mid 7th grade and shaped up). However I have to stress that pressuring them I think backfires. It's more about understanding. My kid revealed they were all freaked out about this fear of getting into good schools or not. (this is Chicago so it is a big issue). The teachers were putting a huge amount of pressure on them and they just rebelled en masse. School has become all about tests and performance and not about actual learning and the joy of it, sadly. Just another opinion....
One other thing, you seem to be mistaking smarts for motivation. Some of the smartest people in the world didn't make good grades in school, (ever heard of Albert Einstein?)
Making good grades is also partly about conforming. Not everyone cares to do that at whatever age. You might need to get to know this gal better and see what makes her really tick. BUt most kids that age are disorganzied and looking for instant gratification. DOn't expect her to be emotionally superior because she has a high IQ.

L., your idea about attending class with your great niece is not as hare-brained as it sounds. I attended a day of class with my 16 year old son in Feb. I found it to be very educational for me, school has changed a lot since I was in high school. I got a chance to talk to each of his teachers, find out what they expect from the students, watch my son 'work' (he also loses things and forgets to turn in his homework).

Of course, he hated me being there, but by the morning break, he was getting over it and tried to convince me to take him to Taco Bell for a snack. I told him if he got his act together I would not return....I have now been to high school half a dozen times in the last few months, I go every time I can get a morning off (I have alternate Mondays off of work).

Contact the school and see what their policy is on parents attending class. My son's school encourages it and loves to have the parents around.

M.

Sounds to me like shes ADD. not hyper. and gifted. read up on women and add. I'm a women with ADD. grew up hearing, 'your smart, why aren't you doing better, or whatever..." I struggled keeping up in college, but made it. I'm now an architect, and still struggle with deadlines.
Its not 'bad' its just the brain functioning in a little different way. Wanting to get things right/ perfect, and not turning papers in that are done are classic symtoms. Doesn't mean she will need 'meds', but read about girls and ADD to understand it all a little better, and what will help her more. Plus, everyone has there imperfections to live/work with or around! good luck!

"I have had several appointments with her teachers and they all tell me she is more than capable of doing her work...and most of the time she does do the actual work...she just doesn't hand it in...or she will work on a project in Art and hand it in a week late because she wanted it to be as good as possible."

While your great niece may have ADD, the above sentence screams at me that she is a perfectionist. You don't say how she lost her parents, but perhaps she feels not only grief but guilt. She may blame herself for the loss of her parents and feel that if she does not do everything perfectly, maybe she will lose you too. I went through this perfectionism when I was in school too. I would do the assignments but because I didn't feel they were perfect I would not hand them in. Whatever the problem is, I think the worst thing to do is to shame her. DO NOT go to her classrooms to observe. You can probably imagine how embarrassing that would be for her. Don't put pressure on her to get all A's. She needs to know that she doesn't need to have straight A's in order to be a good and worthwhile person. Let her know you would be proud of her if she could raise her grades in the failing classes to a C or even a D. That is how I handled my own 8th grade daughter, who has ADD. She is not on medication and this year has good grades. The best thing (and she figured this out by herself) is to sit in the front row. That way she can concentrate on the teacher with fewer distractions from being behind other students.
Bless you for caring for her and keeping her out of foster care. She needs to know that you love her no matter what.

I am a school teacher and have had much experience in this area. I have several students who have to stay after school on days that they have homework. This arrangement is made between me and the parent. Some kids come to enjoy this, others decide to start doing their work at home to avoid an extended school day.

We had this problem with my son when he started Junior High. He is a very smart boy and more than capable of earning all A and B grades. Anyway, he came home with an F in English on his progress report. Instead of getting mad I said, "Oh honey, I am SO sorry for you!". He was blown away and looked at me like I was crazy. I went on to tell him that I was "SO sad that such a smart boy like him would end up working at McDonald's and not have a nice car, house, etc. when he was older." That got his attention...I told him that if he did not get good grades in Jr. High and High School, he would not be able to go to college so he could get a good job and have all the nice things he wants for himself because I wasn't going to support him forever!!

I then said, "You speak English, right?" He nods. "You have always gotten good grades and you are a smart boy...if you weren't smart, I wouldn't be so concerned." I asked him a couple of times why he did not turn in his assingments completed and he told me they were stupid. I then told him to think very hard about why he didn't complete his work and turn it in on time. I asked him to write me a one page essay about why he was suddenly having this problem with the schoolwork, what he intended to do to correct it and what the consequences would be if he did not improve the grades. I did let him know that I did not expect all A grades, but that he should have at least a B because again, he is NOT a dumb child. I also told him that if his consequences did not meet my approval, I would choose worse ones.

His essay revealed that he was sitting near some of his buddies and not listening well enough in class to know how to complete the homework or the answers to the questions! His solution was to ask the teacher to move his seat (I asked that she inform me when that had happened and suggested that he also apologize to her for not paying attention in class). His consequences were as bad as what I would have chosen...no tv, no phone, no friends over, no PlayStation, no sports, no Scouts...nothing fun at all and he would do a book report or other extra credit to help bring the grades up. I told him that he could stay in Scouts only because it was a "good life influence". I then emphasized that my job was making money to help support the family and his "job" was to be responsible at home by helping out and at school by earning good grades so that he could be productive and have a rewarding adult life.

You are on the right track...just need to impress on her the importance of working now for a good future. Good luck!!

Stop taking her things away and stop all the bribing...stop pressuring her into getting A's...stop driving yourself nuts....as you have experienced, it doesn't work and in fact it's making things worse.

Go to family therapy with her weekly....this can't hurt and it will help. She'll get to express her feelings, and learn to work on her inner problems, and you'll get some insight into what's going on with her, and how to be supportive.

There is nothing more important then loving her for who she is, and leaning how to deal with her problems so she can be the best she can be and that takes time, understanding, love and patience.

Getting A's are great...and just getting passing grades is fine too and not the end of the world...We all can't excell in everything.
But in this case, at this point, I tend to think the aim should be getting the F's up to passing grades, and the way to get there is to first find out why she DOESN'T OR WANT OR CAN'T make that effort in some of her subjects...while she does so in others....and that's going to take working hard with professonal therapist.

I have no idea why she ended up living with you and not her parents....so I can only guess she had a difficult childhood with lots of changes and loss and is inwardly hurting a great deal....not to mention she now has lost the joy every girl looks forward to, and looks back on which is turning 16 and having a sweet 16 party.

I bet anything that she is now feeling very much alone in the world...misunderstood...unloved...lost...confused and probably hasn't a clue what she did wrong, or what you expect from her or why the A's she does get isn't good enough for you.

Please understand I'm not in anyway trying to be hard on you, nor am I blaming you for anything. I understand you want the best for her and I'm glad you are reaching out for help. Motherhood is far from easy and the answers do not come easy....

As a fellow "nut" I do feel for you. Her grades are outstanding, minus the missing assignments. Has she been tested for maybe a gifted program. My younger brother did the exact same thing. His sophmore year he was tested and they advanced him, no more problems. He was bored, with the academics. She sounds bored, there are enough A's in there to show she is more than capable, maybe the missing assignments are way of shaking things up, breaking up the monotony. Schools have curriculum that are set for the average student. If she is above that, she is bored and also the missing assignment keep her looking like all the other kids. Hope this helps.

I have the same problem with my 10 y/o son. If I had more time i'd check his work each morning and make sure it's done and remind him to turn it in. As is, i try my best to keep him organized and reward him for good grades. We discuss the bad grades, my expectations, and reasons for them. I try not to focus on the bad grades because negative attention is still attention which is often why these kids do this, so i've been told. I also stay very involved with school and he has many mentors thru school that help. He is ADD, brother is ADHD and they both take Adderall which helps enormously. They too r n counseling and are extremely smart but have had bad breaks, including lack of father. Have u discussed what she'd like to do with her life and the steps needed to get there?

Get her to see a councelor. A lot of times it could be peer pressure not to do good in school. But unfortunately she'll either end up in summer school or repeating the grade. Find either a councelor at church, school, or pediatric councelor to find out what the underlying problem is.

My brother and his wife had a major talk with my nephew when I went back home about 4 years ago when he was a freshman in high schoool. I over heard a bit of the conversation and they mentioned to him that grandma was going to go sit in his classrooms if he didn't start changing ASAP. My mom, was there to confirm that she would go sit with him. He was also very bright and has now finished his EMT study (excellent grades for his coarses too) and is currently completing his firefighter training. I agree with Shirley {May. 13, 2008} about just the thought of being embarrassed a few times might make a change. But, be willing to follow up with your end of the bargain. I pray that your niece is doing better and your family is adjusting well.
M.

L., my heart and prayers are with you. We have our special needs granddaughter! As a former teacher, I see that teens have to see a reason for their work, but a grade isn't it! It still frustrates me to hear people of all ages refer to homework as "busywork" because some of it is important to undrstand the procedures involved, the mistakes that are being made, the speed needed to complete an activity in the time required, the correct formula or method needed, etc. Are some of these subjects ones that she doesn't see the need for homework completion in? (OK, I know the grammar isn't correct!) Our daughter flunked 7th/8th grade math until I made her sit down and explain why this was a problem. It turned out, after lots of talking, the guy she liked was a horrible student, and she didn't think he'd like her if she did better than he did. It was the same reason she let one win at pool, too. If he doesn't like her smart, he doesn't like the real person she is. Girls have a hard time with this idea! I hope my 2 cents helps you.

Have you tried EFT, or Emotional Freedom Technique. I know it sounds a bit hokey...it really does work wonders though...I'd check it out! :) Good luck!

Have you tried counseling? If she often turns a project in late because she was working on trying to make it as good as possible, perhaps she is trying to be perfect, trying to do her work perfectly, and if it doesn't measure up, she doesn't turn it in... My son is a perfectionist, and has some of these tendencies. He is very, very bright, and feels a need to do things very well. Usually, he can, and in the allotted time, but often it takes him longer. He has also had the tendency at times to write and erase, write and erase because he didn't think his handwriting was good enough (his handwriting is great!). He borders on being obsessive about things in this realm. We went to counseling, and it has improved things immensely. It's not his fault - his brain is just wired that way. It seems that at times, when he takes so long to do something, or feels he's got to come up with something different or more creative, he's being defiant, but he's not - it's the way his mind works. With counseling, he's been able to recognize the perfectionistic side of himself, and do some "self talk" to override that or ignore those messages telling him that this work isn't good enough or that he's got to re-do this for the 10th time. It's taken some time and TLC, but it's helped him a lot. Perhaps your great niece has some anxieties about her work or something at school or even at home. She may not see a way out or even recognize it for what it is or how it is hurting her. She may, however, see that she is falling into a hole, but she has no idea how to get out. If it is like what my son has gone through, she doesn't like what she is doing, either. But she doesn't know how to stop it. She might need someone on the "outside" to help her see the way and to give you and her teachers some concrete strategies to help her out. You can start by going to her medical doctor, who can refer you to some psychiatrists or counselors that deal with children/adolescents.
Good luck!

Dear L.,
I read many of your responses. They are basically saying the same thing over and over again. I may have an answer for you.
If she is sleeping for such a long time, she may not be getting good rem deep sleep. Without good sleep .. we cannot focus to our optimum level the next day. Please call me so I can give you information. You can then make a informed decision on our solution to ADD/ADDH. SLEEP!
With warmest regards,
L. Crayne
http://www.Nikken.com/LelanaCrayne
Home:###-###-#### Cell:###-###-####
http://domagnetswork.blogspot.com/ New

I went through exactly the same thing with my 16 yr. old daughter. I pushed through my reluctance to medicate after she was diagnosed with ADD- and withing 6 weeks, the differences are profound! She is now making all A's and can't wait to dive into homework when she gets home from school. She often finishes it before she even leaves school.

It's like a new kid. She said "Now I can feel how smart I am"!

Best of luck to you.

Hi L.,
I recently received my two nieces to raise, and they are teenage girls as well. They are both very bright and highly intelligent. I love them dearly and when I can't get them to do something (after repeated attempts) I sit them down, and we talk about only that one specific problem until we figure out the mechanics of the problem. By this I mean, what exactly happens when the paper doesn't get turned in? Does the bell ring, and your niece gathers up her books etc. and rushes to her next class without thinking about turning in the paper? Or is she a procrastinator? My nieces are ADD so they have to be refocused on the task at hand all the time. Perhaps your niece has this same problem, and she simply forgets to turn her work in. Kids with ADD tend to have self-esteem issues to begin with, so making her wear the same two outfits to school for a whole week isn't going to accomplish what your really after. She probably already feels unsure of her self, that's why she might work on stuff longer trying to be a perfectionist. I think the issues you may be experiencing are not really behavior related, their more pyschological. Obviously your niece isn't living with her parents, just as mine aren't, and there are a lot of issues kids like ours deal with that most other kids don't. I would start with therapy, and maybe try a reward approach that consists of smaller awards that aren't such a big deal if she doesn't achieve them. Then once she sees she can actually attain the smaller awards easily, she can work up to the bigger ones. Giving a 16 year old a brand new car just for doing what she should be doing regardless of the award only puts stress on them, and a sheer sense of absolute failure when they can't achieve it. Give the kid a break, she has a boatload of A's, be grateful for those, and don't let the F's erase those achievements. Good luck! And p.s. don't let your niece know that you referred to her mother as a "doper" to the world Wide Web, she will take it to heart, that's the past so it's over, always speak about her parent's in a positive light. Always.....thx

Having just read this chain and having 3 daughters that are younger than your great neice, but equally as challenging, I highly suggest counseling for both of you together to learn how to work together on this stuff. But personally, I have told my middle schooler if there are issues with her school work than I am showing up and following her around to all her classes. She is so into me no embarassing right now that it will work for her. Dunno about the 16 yo, but I do know a dear friend that did it with her son. The dad and her both would sit in the back of the classroom and get after him to pay attention and his friends. The teachers were actually appreciative of it. Just something to think about.

On the car deal, I wouldn't go there right now until she shows more responsibility with her school work. But that's just from my own personal experience as a teen.

I am a mom of 6 and I have one child that after thinking that medication is not for my child I had to change my mind, she was driving me and the teacher up the walls. Well Please let her know that you know she can make it, but its up to her to make the right choices for her to have a better future. Alot of time our children just need for us to let them do it there way once so they can see what they have done wrong, I am not saying don't help or call thing to her attention just inform her when she has done something to contradict what she is doing. She just might be angery inside and don't know how to get her anger out in a positive way, let her know that if its anger that she feel than there is a better way to release the anger, alot of time I have told my children that the best way to get anger out is to put it into geting good grades. And just pray, prayer do work. I will pray for your family also

I would try to spend the day with her and get her talking about herself and what is going on in her life. Don’t bring up anything about the grades or preach to her like she is in trouble. That is the last thing a teenage wants. She may open up to you about things that are bothering her and that could be the reason why her grades are dropping in some classes.

My daughter went through the same thing at her age. I actually think it's normal. They have so much going on at that age: prom, school, friends..., that I really wouldn't worry about it. She will grow out of it. My daughter was failing in school until her junior year when SHE made up her mind to study so she could get into college. You can't do it for her, and no amount of grounding will help. Sometimes, while it's hard, the best we can do is to be there for them and let them fail. She needs to learn the hard way that you won't bail her out. I teach college, so I've seen a lot of kids who are unprepared. They learn. On this subject I agree with Maggie. Don't give your niece drugs except as a last resort. Good luck, and you are not nuts :)

Have you read the book "Parenting with love and logic"? It has some really good advice on this subject.

Good Luck

You said that she is seeing a counselor. Have they not advised you as to what you can do to try to help this situation? Have they not evaluated her for ADD? And have you considered family counseling? There may be issues at work that need to be addressed in therapy together.

I would suggest finding someone in your area who does Brain Gym or Educational Kinesiology. This work can assist your niece to get through whatever is blocking her from succeeding. You can find a consultant on www.braingym.org. I have worked with many teenagers with this type of issue and have seen success. It is difficult to be able to tell what is going on without working with her. It could be a person in the class,it could be a teacher, it could be she has a boy that she is thinking about; my experience with the four teens I have raised and the many I worked with, is that they are usually preoccupied with things other than school.
J. Newendorp

I have had the same problem with my son for over 5 yrs. He was tested very high IQ and still recieves some very low grades. Mostly because he lost the homework and didnt turn it in. I also asked all the same questions you have, 'do you enjoy doing something 2x's?'

The answer is always in the organization. We purchased a zip up portable organizer with lots of tabs for each subject. At first I tried to organize him (thats my speciality - so I know he didnt get my genes in that area!), then I realized I needed to stop. This is his responsibility. It didnt work anyway - it was MY organization not his and he didnt keep it up. So I gave him the tools and he had to create a way to do good.

We recently had a meeting with his teachers and councilors and discussed responsibilty. He has to take the consequences, no one else. Its a hard lesson, but we all have to learn it. If he cant get into the college he wants and needs to go to a Jr college to get his grades up, when he is more than capabile now, it would absolutely break my heart, but his life choice. We will see in a few weeks when grades come out if it sank in that his efforts are his choice. I can take away privildges yes, but in the end I cant really change him, only he can.

One thing that did help my son's ADD is switching to green products and giving him vitamin supplements to help promote blood flow to the brain and stimulate the neutrons. There are many underlying 'causes' or triggers to ADD that can be helped w/o medication. Treating the cause will always improve the results instead of masking or supressing.

Let her know your there to help when she needs it, but relax, realize everyone learns at different paces and has different personalities (its taken me 11 yrs to get that). She may not care and even though it is important for her future, you can continue to get frustrated or let her decide and learn the hard way. Be there to guide and give advice if she asks, but tell her its her choice. If she repeats a grade she may not enjoy missing her friends or doing the work all over again.

Best of Luck!

S. M.
www.EmpoweringWomenForSuccess.com

L., I am 25 yrs. old and in the 7th grade I received a D my mom freaked out and came and sat in EVERY class with me for 2 days. It was mortifying, but it worked. You bet your butt, all through High School I never received anything below a B. I know there is a big difference between 7th grade and Freshman...but I am sure it will still work.

Have you asked her why she is doing this? Does she have a reason? She is smart enough to know what she is doing so she must have a reason, even if it is that she does not care. From my experience I have found that sometimes we cannot protect kids from mistakes that they choose to make even when they know the outcome. The outfit thing was a little extreme I think remember she is a teenage girrl and image is very important. You don't want to add to a problem, you want to find the reason and resolve it. Sometimes just having to live with the consequences of our own actions is enough to change behavior. You don't take responsibility, you don't get responsibility- no driving, no staying out with friends, no activities outside of school, church and job..... Pray!! God bless you!

I have read responses already given and I agree with a few of them. See a doctor. My son is the same as your niece. Do the work but not turn it in and he is ADHD. Its possible she is getting sidetracked and leaving the work either at home or in her locker and either cant go back to get it or doesnt want to be embarressed by haveing to go get it our of her locker. Then after class and school is over they have forgotten about it again.

You could maybe sit down with her and make schedules and checklists for the day until she gets a routine down and is able to do it on her own.

my 16 yr old daughter is a sophomore. with that said, i feel your pain!! haha!! anyway, at the most recent parent teacher conference i over heard the principal and counselor talking. the were saying that thegraduating classes of 2010 -2011 were the least responsible that the'd seen as far as schoolwork. so, i started asking questions. turs out, the class as a whole is lazy. a lot of them will do the work but not turn it in. mine included. i figure, why bother if you are not gonn a turn it in?the only thing she can tell me is " i dunno". anyway a lot of schools now have their assignments online. i go to the website and get them and make sure thatthey get done (even if she doesnt get credit, it's a principle thing)then i get a note from the teachers every week to see what assignments are missing. i thought as kids got into highschool they'd just do their work and turn it in. NOT!!!! as soon as she is able to drive, not driving is a huge motivater. also get her involved in sports, cheer, color guard, etc.(you gotta keep your grades up to do these). and last but not least, GOOD LUCK!!!

I was diagnosed with ADD (not ADHD) when I was a Senior in highschool (I'm 33 now). There were signs way back in grade school (we found notes from teachers stating I got distracted easily and was being lazy), but because I wasn't hyperactive nothing was done other than extensive grounding. My parents did some research and I went through a three week double blind study to see if it was psychosematic (it wasn't). I used Ritalin for the end of highschool and through college. By then I was able to retrain how my brain worked. I think the assignment notebook you are using is a good idea. I did something similar, and though I found annoying at first, in the long run it helped become more organized.

If you think ADD might be the problem, I highly recommend you get her tested. She may not need the drugs, but if they will help her learn to focus, she may in time (like me) not need them anymore.

I also recommend you check out www.chadd.org. This is a support group that my parents used.

Good luck

R. R.

Hi L. I know by now you wish the responses would stop but I would like to share something with you that may help... I am ADD not ADHD and so is my son. I was diagnosed in my freshman year of high school but my parents did not believe in medication. I struggled I was smart but couldnt seem to keep up with all the subjects I had even though It wasnt hard academic wise. It really took a toll on my self esteem and self confidence. I was a cheerleader and in sports when I could keep it all together but on the inside felt crazy and stupid. I didnt know why I couldnt "get it together" When I turned 19 I put my self on medication and I had no problems with college and my career and family life are a balancing act but without my medication I am a train wreck. My son was diagnosed with ADD not ADHD and I put him on meds as well as a very healthy diet. I dont want him to suffer through school and feel like a bad person like I did. Unless you have ADD you cant understand how frustrating it is I have not out grown it and have finally gotten over all the stigma and judgement people give me for taking it because it helps, just as if I were diabetic I would take insulin. Please consider helping her with some treatment it is not her fault and punishing her hurts her worse (self-esteem) I dont want to babble but if would like to ask me question please feel free to email me and I will be happy to help. If your doctor says no meds seek a second opinion and other ways to get her help.

L.,
We had this issue with our daughter. For us I think it was a power issue. We could make her do her homework, but we could not make her turn it in. It was somehting she had total control over and she wanted to make sure we knew it. From the background you describe with your neice's parents, maybe this is one area of her life she feels like she can actually control? God Bless you for raising her so she will have some semblance of a normal life. It is frustrating, but so worth it!

Does she not hand in work to certain teachers or does she just not hand in certain assignments? She may have a personality conflict with certain teachers. If so, encourage her to talk it out with the teacher and give her some advice on how to do so.
Remember, it is your job to prepare her for the real world. I would stop the bribes and start talking about how school relates to the world of work. Remind her that every job has assignments that aren't as much fun as others and assingments that have deadlines. YOu can help her get things done on time by getting her a planner and showing her how to use it. Help her with time management by helping her set aside time to get her work done. If she doesn't have her work done by Friday, she doesn't have time to go out with her friends. Also remind her that good grades help you get into college.

Good luck! Raising a teen is a hard job!

Do you remember the threads on Needing help with gifted ADHD teenage that will not do school work? Well as you can see from those threads I have the very same problem. In some ways (if your daughter is not ADHD or gifted) your daughter may be doing a control thing (especially if she feels out of control in other parts or her life). You also may have a boredom problem. If this is case explain that if she shows that she is bore and can do the work without problem that it will show and she might be able to advance to more challeging class). Ohter then that there really is not much you can do except let her face the fallout for her actions. Let the teachers know you are aware and try to get suggestions from them work with them to be a united front for betterment of your childs education. Try restrictions if she doesn't want to do her assignments and rewards when she does (i.e. if she has car take it away till grades come up, if she spends time with friends tell her no going with or having friends over till you see or hear from teachers of marked improvement). After a while she will get the message that the daily is just as important as the test scores, class discussions and labs plus you mean business (plus you will teach her that in life you have to do the mundane to get reward). If this is not the case then see if maybe it is organization related then work out something that helps her with this. I had a discussion with my 14 yr old and realized now that he is not doing the daily because he has problem with memory and focus (the ADHD reacting with giftedness and teenagerism). When he is in class he remembers what he needs to do but once he leaves his mind is on next class. Then sometimes when he does rememebr he either loses the homework or forets the next day to hand it in. Talk to your daughter and get her feedback on the reason she is not wanting to do the work or the grade is down. Do it in non threating parental tone but as a simple discussion. "What can I do to help you with this" "Help me to help you as it appears that you are struggling with this". "Is there something going on in _____ class or someone that is giving you trouble"? In good cases you will get a straight answer and you can get it resolved in the other you will get the teenager double talk. So listen careful for the messages and listen with you ear as well as your heart. But like I said there is not much that you can really do except make sure that you let her know that this is not tolerated, you are there to help if she needs, and commincate with teachers (letting her know there is a united front). She is responsible for her actions (or non actions) and only she can make the effort that is needed. If she doesn't and has to repeat the subject again next year while her friends go on...well that is her choice (if you let her go to summer school to make this up have her pay you the cost of the class as most school charge extra for summer school). But whatever you do need to stand tough on what you feel is right and your child will thank you later.

You didn't mention what your great niece has said about why she doesn't turn in her work. Keep in mind that her first answer may not really be the issue. You may want to ask her teachers if they know reasons why other students don't turn in their work. I'm sure this isn't the first time they have come across something like this.

One typical answer may be that she doesn't want to look that smart. Her peer group may not like "smart" kids. She seems to get just enough As to do well, but then she intentionally does bad so she doesn't become the A student. She may need different friends that accept her as she is. She may need to accept who she is - a smart female that should be proud of herself and grateful for the combination of inherited ability and an environment that allows her to succeed. I have had to tell my kids now 17 and 21, that should never allow someone alter their plans for success, a boy/girl friend, teacher, coach, etc.

L., This is my bright Freshman son and me-right now. He is the sweet joy of my life, and lately I am so saddened by the angry, frustrating tone I hear myself take with him. I am heartened by advice in Faber & Mazlish's book, How to Talk So Teens Will Listen & Listen So Teens Will Talk. These children are going through much and we need to work on keeping loving open communication, solving the whys and hows together. I think that embarrassing them will hurt, not help. And buying a car as a reward is way beyond my imagination. I would say we're way overmedicated, and meds as last resort, but i do read with empathy the responses who say it could be life changing to some. Try to learn about new ways to open your relationship. By the way, sounds like some of the A+ kids are considered "annoying" personality-wise, and so many smart kids do not want to be that.
Best of luck. Keep loving. ann

We had the same problem with my 13 year old grandson. We had the teachers and counselor fill out surveys and then send them to the dr. We in to see the dr. and he asked questions and finally diagnosed him with depression. put him on meds and in just a couple of weeks he is doing much better and has brought his grades up to at least a c.

L.,
You have received some great information already regarding ADD and drugs. Let me add my 2 cents. I'm ADHD and 54, my son is ADHD and 17 and my daughter is ADD and 20. My son started Ritatlin at 3 (he has more engergy than the Ennergizer bunny.) Drugs are always a last resort and face it, no one wants to put their child on drugs. I tried all the other avenues first, change of diet, no food colorings etc. Nothing worked. The day I gave him the first pill, well, it was just life changing for all of us. He could finally sit and play a game, let me read him a book, he started and finished a puzzle. It was night and day. He was never a "zombie" as some others have mentioned. This year (junior) he decided to go off of his Adderall XR by himself. He is currently experiencing all the same things your niece is currently experiencing. We have the B average rule in our house for getting a driving permit and license and he still has not achieved it. Totally disorganized, late turning in papers, many conferences with his teachers etc.

PLEASE have your niece tested and if drugs will help (and I'm sure they will)put her on them. Her selfesteem will rise as well as her selfworth. My kids din't take them in the summer only during the school year. My daughter is a college junior and takes Adderall XR (it's time released to last the whole school day) and she has 5 mg's if she needs to study after it's worn off.

Both my kids are funny, outgoing, well adjusted kids that just needed help focusing and paying attention while in school. They are both very open about their ADD/ADHD.
Good luck and keep us posted as to what you decide.

Hi Have you tried taking her to a psychologists and doing an educational/psychological analysis. My boy was like this since age 5 and he was diagnosed with ADHD. His IQ is very high, but based on what you describe on your niece's symptoms, it seems she might have this disorder. Trust me, it is not intentionally. Also, I was reading about INDIGO children. These type of children do not adapt to the normal social rules which they tend to feel pressured. They are very gifted and talented children. You might also want to check a book related to these children. And last, but not least, have you checked on her biological parents background? Some things could also be genetically inherited. Hope these options help.

this sounds almost like the scenario I faced with my 8th grader (last year) While 7th grade was grade, 8th was horrible and something had to be done. Our school recommended an educational clinic here in Houston for tutor, testing, if needed, etc. Diagnosed ADD, put on medicine, graades are coming up. Just got an A in Algebra, English is up to an A. Please get her tested and end the misery for both of you. All the grounding, pep talks, rewards won't help if she has this problem which is not her fault. Good luck and God bless you both.

Hi. I know you have received so much advice for your niece. But I felt moved to respond. In a way I feel like I was much like her and then got into "trouble". I am on the right track now but still working through somethings. I know it is sooo difficult to be a mom. But I think one of the best things you can do for her is to observe what she interested in and help her hone in on that. It's a different approach to a rewards system. If she just focuses on the end result she will miss out on what her true talents are just to please others. Her approach to this life might not fit into the "normal" scope of things and honoring her for this is one of the best things you can do. I am only speaking from personal experience as I feel I was pushed into doing things that I just was not interested in and still ended up feeling lost in the end. I would also suggest being conscious of diet and making sure she is getting enough of the right stuff and even thinking to supplement with a multi-vitamin. Good luck! L.