Teachers Cursing and Yelling at Kids to "Motivate" Them?

Yep, totally normal outside of the classroom. Actually for my oldest son, it started with the middle school hockey team and he hears this kind of thing regularly from his recreational team coaches and high school coaches. It doesn't seem to faze the kids at all, nor does it bother me at this age, where the kids hear and use that language anyway (hopefully out of earshot of their parents).

I think it's the norm. Not saying it's acceptable, just that it's probably more common than we think.

I can understand the Director being upset with them and giving them a hard time about their performance, but the cursing is unprofessional.

Now high school football coach, I have heard that type of language, but those guys did not seem phased.

Before you EVER go above the head of a teacher/ instructor, you always speak with them yourself. That is the first thing the Principal will ask you. "Did you speak with the Band Instructor and what did he say." Remember if you are working and someone has a problem with you, you would want them to speak with you directly, before they went to the President of the company to complain about you.

So if you feel strongly about this, think of a non confrontational way to say "Hey, I was passing by and heard you speaking with the section of the band. I could tell you were really frustrated, but I was surprised you cursed at them. I feel like they look up to you and want to please you by doing their best, but the cursing was not needed to get your disappointment, expectations and direction to them. "

And mom, it does not matter if you felt the band played great, the Director knows how it is to be played. Parents usually do not notice the mistakes.. I know our daughter is always perfect.. Hee, hee.

Wow. I'm surprised that some here say that it's normal at their schools (why aren't other parents reporting this and demanding it stop? Do they really have standards that low?) and a few are even posting that they actually would have no problem with it if it's directed at the kids' actions and not the kids themselves -- as in "Your playing was s...." as opposed to "YOU are s...."

Don't those folks see that kids (including teens) internalize things, and make everything personal in their own minds, and what they HEAR in their minds when they hear "Your playing was s...." is indeed "YOU are s...."??

Plus, why shrug and tolerate this? Letting it happen in the name of "It's just how things are when it's competitive" is allowing the coarsening of these activities. It's a case of adults in paid leadership positions acting juvenile in the name of competition. L., you already know that your daughter would be miserable if this is that particular teacher's style. And please don't say that "it depends on your child's personality" whether or not the child is OK with it -- it's not about how the kids' personalities tolerate it, it's about how the coach's or band leader's personality is not one that is fit for leading kids.

An intelligent coach or teacher or director can be very tough and demanding without ever cursing. My daughter's orchestra teacher is tough and the kids quake if she comes down on them but she never curses to make her points. Same with the sports coaches at her school. And the same with her dance teachers, and believe me, serious dance teachers can be tough indeed.

You are not being too idealistic. Stick to your objections about it. It's caving in and saying "Oh, it's not directed at the kids but at their actions so it's OK" that allows the activities to become cruder and coarser. It's not necessary except to make some adult feel big and important.

I don't think that sort of behavior is appropriate in any sort of setting, period.
For a superior to berate and swear at those they lead -- this would be considered poor management skills in the professional world, and I consider this to be exceptionally poor classroom management. Whether one is coaching or teaching, when we work with students, we must always be in control of ourselves. Teachers should be modeling effective and clear communication, the kind they themselves would prefer to receive. In my opinion, if you have to swear or berate people in the hopes of getting a better performance, you are missing something else which is elemental to coaching/teaching/leading others. Kind of similar to how it doesn't motivate employees-- except to keep looking for other work.

I should also add, though, that I never experienced band or team sports.... I did, though, have great choir and drama directors- they were able to convey their opinions without ripping up the kids. Just factual critique/feedback and do it again... and again... and again... I think an integral skill to being a good leader is being able to figure out how to get your team to buy into 'why' doing one's best is important.

Never appropriate to speak to children that way. Every interaction with a child or young adult is an opportunity to teach and guide them to make responsible choices in the world. An adult yelling and cursing at a child is just being a bully.

In general, I think that those in charge of children should watch their language, even if they are teaching teenagers and even if they are involved in sports or other non-academic activities. I think if they want respect, they should give respect, and they should conduct themselves in a professional manner. You can tell a class to knock it off without an F-bomb.

I don't like it, but it's pretty typical, unfortunately. Both our HS football and baseball coaches yell and use profanity on a regular basis from what I've heard. I know some hockey coaches do it too. Our HS hockey coach, who produces winning teams (whatever that's worth), brags that if the kids don't hustle on the ice during a game he'll make them skate after the game until they throw up or are ready to. This is the first I've heard about band directors doing it, but I agree with the other posters that depending on the program band can be pretty competitive and demanding. I also agree with others who have said it depends on the context--was he telling the entire band they sound like "sh.." or was he singling out certain kids or calling names? It's sad, but by the time they get to middle school most kids have heard it all. My 8th grader tells me that kids in the hallways at his school regularly swear and use the "F" word. He knows that is not allowed in our home.

This is not about how hard teaching or coaching is or is not. Many successful, demanding, teachers inspire students without cussing.

This is about culture and acceptance. I find it unacceptable.

The most terrifying experiences that I ever had with teachers did not involve swearing. I had a teacher once who made the whole class sit and wait while a girl he called on (who admitted she had not read the assignment) frantically read through the text to find the answer. Way, way worse than if he had said she F'ed up and moved on!
I was very involved in band from 5th grade through college. There may have been swears, I don't really remember, but there were a few criticisms that I could still quote. I wouldn't really be upset by the use of swears in high school, though I would object for younger kids. However, music is not a field for the sensitive!

I was a teacher for 26 yrs and no it is not acceptable. I know their job is hard and frustrating but they need a better way to deal with it.

Band can be pretty competitive.
Some of the leaders can get a bit bent out of shape.
My personal feeling is cursing is never necessary.
It's lazy language, it's imprecise, and the shock value wears off quickly.
If the band leader sees a problem with the band then more practice sessions are the way to fix it - not screaming/cursing at them under the bleachers.
If I have a child who does not like how the band is being directed then although they need to finish out the season they can certainly quit band next year and not be subjected to this style again.

For the most part teachers have a tough job and are wonderful.
My Mom taught 6th grade in public school for 30 years.
But every so often you come across one who would really benefit from some professional psychological help (they are nuts).
In high school I had an English teacher who almost jumped out the 3rd floor window during our class.
We didn't know what to make of it.
Half the class was too scared to blink while the other half was wishing he'd jump already and get it over with.
Now - as an adult - I know he should have been put on administrative leave and been taken out of the classroom.
Sometimes you don't have a choice about working with crazy people.
But band/marching band is an elective.
It's ok to choose to walk away from it.
Talk to the principal about it.
And try to be within earshot of the group as much as you can so you can hear how often this 'teaching/motivation' method is used.

Adults cursing at kids is NEVER acceptable, period.

If the kids will get in trouble for saying it themselves, then it shouldn't be said in front of them to begin with.

Every family finds different things acceptable and unacceptable. It all boils down to what is worthy of detention, extra homework or suspension, and what isn't at school.

No, I don't you're being too idealistic. I'd call the principal and talk about it. I'm sure that if the principal tells the band teacher no more cursing, he will stop. Athletics and music are two different things, and I wouldn't make comparisons.

It sounds like the band director was taking his frustrations out on the kid. I would send a note to the guy, being respectful, but pointing out that you heard him address the kid inappropriately. Because we all have moments, I would say that you probably caught him on a bad day, but that kids should not be taught indirectly that this is how you handle a situation like that. I believe that you should always go to the person first.

If you have a problem with it, call him on it or speak with his principal. I think it is unacceptable to use curse words around or at students.

No two people can do the same thing and have the same outcome. As a Dance teacher, my standards are/were very high. My silence was way more harsh after a poor performance than any words could have been.

I think that tough critiques make some folk perform better. Michael Jackson and his dad...

Teachers should work at gaining respect from the students and
teachers/coaches can use other words to get their point across.
Students want to please those that show respect to them.

I don't like cursing and I'm not a prude either. I think it's low class and kids of any age don't need to hear it.

My husband was in the band in high school, so I don't know is normal or not for a band director to act this way.

I would have a talk with his boss.

I don't think it is appropriate for the teacher to be cursing at the students. If he were management and yelled and cursed like that at an employee, he could be sued for creating a hostile work environment. I would not do anything now, but in the future if my child were assigned to his class, I would send an immediate e-mail letting him know that I have witnessed that behavior and making sure he understands that that will not be tolerated in the class my child is in.

I never heard a single bad word from any teacher or coach in middle or high school.

In college, a few times. Maybe 2 or 3 times, tops.

If cursing and barnyard words are part of the curriculum in these subjects, then there couldn't be any problem. Are grades given for students' mastery of the vocabulary? They should, because they're learning it.

If, on the other hand, you would like your children to learn to think and talk differently from the standard they're given in these activities, you may have to teach them to be countercultural, no matter what grade they're in.