Tell Me My 3 Year Old Daughter Is 'Normal'!

The "only mommy" can do it is perfectly normal.

My 3 year old exhibits some OCD tendencies such as any food spills must be wiped up immediately (she will scream and can not continue eating until it is wiped up. I say she can not eat because it genuinely is so distressing to her that can not focus on anything else until its cleaned), she picks all the broken cheerios out of her bowl and only eats the whole ones, she will not sit near the ripped pillows on the sofa .

I debate how much of this is normal as well, but OCD tendencies run in my family so . . .

Other than the toilet paper, which is a little unusual, the rest of it sounds pretty typical for many three year olds. Kids that age often like routine, but that does not make it OCD.

From what you wrote, I would judge her to be normal.

Both my son and husband have OCD, so I can tell you the difference.

A normal child may do the things above, however a child with OCD takes it one step further. If things are not done the "right" way, it's complete and total my-world-is-ending reaction. For instance, if we didn't let our son open the garage door, he'd have to go over and close it and reopen it. If that didn't happen, we didn't go anywhere, because it was an inconsolable meltdown for a minimum of 30 minutes.

If you're seeing that kind of extreme reaction and quality of life is suffering, definitely get in with a child psychiatrist.

In my opinion, many of these things are just stages and how kids can be if allowed to be. Most kids around this age go through a stage of wanting 'mommy' to do things or some want only 'daddy' to do it. You can either cater to it or say 'tonight daddy will do it' and you be in charge as the parent. When kids want a special fork or plate I would say, and I did say, you can have it this meal but not every meal. If you give it to this you are creating a worse problem and it's not necessary as most kids outgrown it anyhow if not let to pick all the times, plates, forks, people, etc. I'm not saying this couldn't be a different case but I would think from the sound of it you need to take charge and just tell her what is happening and how it will be. Children often live up to our expectations so aim higher than what it is now and see what happens.

This is just my experience: Every 2-4 year old wants to do things THEIR own way. Most often, it's a power struggle. You just pick your battles. But when they get too nitpicky...you say no and you stand your ground.

Toothpaste, forks and plates, bedtime drama...sounds like she's been allowed to get away with it, so she's doing it. Which a 3 year old will do! It sounds like you're so afraid of "causing anxiety" that you're tiptoeing around putting your foot down!

I wouldn't stop doing EVERY little habit all at once, but one-by-one, I'd start a little behavior modification. She needs to be able to handle change in her life or she'll never be able to cope in school. I suggest finding someone who SPECIALIZES in behavior modification therapy for kids.

I don't know if I can answer your "is she normal" question, but I can try to offer a perspective that might be comforting.

I don't believe in normal. I mean, I truly don't believe that the world consists of normal and abnormal people. I think, instead, that a lot of what we describe as disorders should be regarded as continua.

I am an editor. I've got clear and present OCD tendencies. With a fillip of social anxiety to boot. Thing is, every editor I've ever met proudly claims the OCD label. If you've got no OCD in you, you can't do my job for 5 minutes -- you'd hate it. So, the thing that makes me the most disordered and weird is also the thing that makes me employable, solvent, and useful in the adult world.

I've also got a 6-year-old son who is academically brilliant (reads better than many of the freshmen on the college campus where I work) but who is socially a little clueless and has some physical delays. He's a perfect, wonderful, amazing nerd. He is NOT on the autistic spectrum, but he's not quite "normal" either. He really fits perfectly in the "nerd world," somewhere in between.

So, I don't know how helpful any of this is. I do know that a lot of preschoolers get attached to certain routines. She just seems a little *more* attached. If you weren't already getting her evaluated, I'd advise that, but honestly, you're doing everything I could think of doing. For me, it's just helpful to let go over the normal / not normal divide; sometimes that comes easily, sometimes not so much.

It's hard to say if this is a toddler trying to control her world or if she has a deeper issue. If you give her choices, does she like to make them? We ask my DD who should brush her teeth and who should tuck her in. It rarely deviates from daddy = teeth and mommy = tuck in. Does she get to make choices other than these things she insists on? If so, how does that go? If you walk away and let her melt when her preference is not an option, does she eventually get over it? Can you let her choose her own color for silverware? Sometimes I say, "You can have a straw of whatever color you want but YOU must go get it." I'm not emotional about it. If she wants it that badly, she can get it. She knows where they are and she's capable. See what she does when given reasonable options. You say in your other thread that she's had a lot happen outside her control, so I wonder if you offered some back that you like better than these behaviors, would these behaviors cease?

All of my kids (6 boys and 1 girl) have done what you have mentioned plus other quirks...that is normal, we all have them to a certain degree...

What will separate her from what is 'normal' and what is 'not normal' is what happens when she can NOT perfect/perform her quirks the way she wants?
Does she melt down and freak out? If she does, are you sure she has not just been allowed to control everything & is unable to deal with being told No? If that is not the case, then she might have some issues...maybe??

I'm not going to say i think your daughter is normal because she may have ocd. But to relieve your fears some, my daughter got overly particular about certain things and if we didn't do it just so it became a battle not worth fighting. Even my youngest goes through phases about what tasks she wants mommy and or daddy to do. Now that my daughter is nearing 5 she is getting a little more reasonable on these things, I think its starting to disappear. But yes, extreme preferences for things to be a certain way is common at age 3 and 4.
Here are some examples in our family:

Only certain people could sing certain songs. She went ballistic if I sang "three little kittens", because only paternal grandma was allowed to sing that song. Soon, only Daddy could sing her bed time songs for a while.
If i served her in a plastic plate it had to be the "birdie" plate and not the "alphebet" plate. To this day I tell her to go pick out a spoon, because she only wants certain spoons for certain things.
She will only drink out of pink cups. I will not pull dirty ones out of the dishwasher and she knows this, but its a fight if for some reason I give her a cup of a different color.
She has two or three different flavors of toothpaste. Dad is the main teeth brusher for her and always asks which brush and which toothpaste she wants. I have no time for this, but boy if i get set up with something other than the brush and flavor she had in mind, its a battle. Tears and inconsolability that take way longer than switching out the brush and flavor.
our two year old only wants mommy to put her to bed and my 4 year old only wants daddy to put her to bed, but we switch that one up even though it causes a lot of tears- for personal reasons, we fight that battle.
I think strong willed, spunky spit fire personalities are worse at being particular. But I do think they all get this way to some degree at age three and four.

As I have learned that these thing go in phases, i don't feel compelled to "win". I feared we were being manipulated, and for a while fought her need to be particular, but as I've seen the preferences come and go, we just go with it for the most part. Soon the need to have things a certain way becomes the same need to do things herself, pick out her clothes, only she can clip the clips on the high chair, or buckle the seat belt.... and these are good compulsions that lead to independence. I my self had mild OCD that was affecting the quality of my life. I think it actually pretty common. I was able to overcome it with maturity. I would only worry about it if its truly in the extreme.

Our daughter isn't OCD, but the 'Mommy must do it' absolutely rang true for her at that age. Used to disappoint my husband to no end and hurt his feelings, but I kept telling him that it would end at one point and it did.

She sounds just like my 3 year old daughter and I have no concerns about something being wrong. Both my kids were not good sleepers. My son was terrible - he was up a LOT. Anyway, I just put her to bed each night and we don't worry about it. Occasionally I am gone to an evening class or outing and her Daddy has to do it and she lives. I noticed once we introduce something to her and she sees it done a certain way, then she wants it to be exactly that same way each time. I think it's just normal development and one of the funny things toddlers/preschoolers do.

No, I would not say necessarily OCD.

My son is not OCD & goes through some of these same things:
-wants mommy to do most things
-wants to have the water on when brushing teeth (I explain it wastes water)

The bedtime routine may be that she is just more comforted by mom esp
before going to sleep for the WHOLE ENTIRE night. (long for a child)

My son likes me to do MOST things but as he's getting a little older has
started relenting all on his own & wants dad to do things.
I stay home w/him so he wants me more. I'm more of a comfort for this
reason and because I'm his mom.

Some of these things can be due to JUST wanting to assert independence: wiping herself, climbing stairs w/o anyone watching her. She's most likely testing out her "big girl" independence, a natural evolution & process.

The 5 songs, 5 kisses COULD be seen as a little on the OCD side but it can also be a routine coveted by her.

My son likes to get his own fork/spoon. Even if I've already set one out for him. He's trying out his "big boy" pants and knows what he likes/wants. He likes certain spoons better because they are either bigger or smaller (like they fit better into the yogurt cup).

He likes his Diego plates & silverware best because he's into those right at the moment.

For the longest time, he ONLY wanted me at bedtime. Now he's grown & relented accepting that his father can be loving, comforting and knows his routine too. He's really outgrown the bedtime and only me thing as he's getting older & more comfortable at night time.

it changes. Ebbs & flows. Change with the changes.

Updated

No, I would not say necessarily OCD.

My son is not OCD & goes through some of these same things:
-wants mommy to do most things
-wants to have the water on when brushing teeth (I explain it wastes water)

The bedtime routine may be that she is just more comforted by mom esp
before going to sleep for the WHOLE ENTIRE night. (long for a child)

My son likes me to do MOST things but as he's getting a little older has
started relenting all on his own & wants dad to do things.
I stay home w/him so he wants me more. I'm more of a comfort for this
reason and because I'm his mom.

Some of these things can be due to JUST wanting to assert independence: wiping herself, climbing stairs w/o anyone watching her. She's most likely testing out her "big girl" independence, a natural evolution & process.

The 5 songs, 5 kisses COULD be seen as a little on the OCD side but it can also be a routine coveted by her.

My son likes to get his own fork/spoon. Even if I've already set one out for him. He's trying out his "big boy" pants and knows what he likes/wants. He likes certain spoons better because they are either bigger or smaller (like they fit better into the yogurt cup).

He likes his Diego plates & silverware best because he's into those right at the moment.

For the longest time, he ONLY wanted me at bedtime. Now he's grown & relented accepting that his father can be loving, comforting and knows his routine too. He's really outgrown the bedtime and only me thing as he's getting older & more comfortable at night time.

it changes. Ebbs & flows. Change with the changes.

My son is also 3.5. He likes things a certain way. He is just figuring out how the world works (as are all kids his age) and if he can put a pattern to something, he likes to do that. He chooses from 3 toothbrushes, for example. If it's late and I just grab one and try to put toothpaste on it, he throws a little fit bc part of his perceived routine is that I ask him which brush he would prefer. He is very into minutia that you and i would feel is unimportant, but it is important to him. The details he cares about change every month or so. I don't encourage him in his little obsessions, but I don't try to break them either. I do explain why we can't do certain routines all the time, and I let him cry if he gets upset. I don't go back and let him choose a toothbrush, for example, if I've already determined we don't have time for that today. It seems normal to me, and ditto for the sleep issues. This is part of control and independence. If your daughter is like my son, she is very strongwilled. I treat these things you're noticing as normal parts of development, not clinical issues. Disclaimer: That is my opinion -- I'm not a doctor!
Good luck!

My now 16 yr old daughter had many sleep issues and also had some strange habits that seemed OCDish. As a 7 year old she licked her hands eww) and kids didn't want to be near her. She wouldn't wear certain clothes for certain reasons, etc. She does have mental health issues that got very serious almost 2 years ago. I wish we had been able to take notice and recognize them early on and maybe we could have avoided the trauma that we went through over 2-3 of the last 4 years. She is SOOOOO much better now becuase we got a proper diagnosis and she has been getting the medication and care she needs. She's a completely different child and now has the expectation to live "normally". But we could have lost her, we almost did.

As parents we are so conerned about mental health issues that we want to avoid the fact that our kid might have one. If you kid was a diabetic would you get proper care? If there are professional that suggest your child needs care get the care and help her succeed in life. I wish we had recognized and sought care we could have avoided trauma, anguish & sleepless nights. God is good and I am hopeful that our experience can help others.

I second what Leelee said about Mommy doing something. This is how it is with my 3 year old - because that is what he's used to. He WILL go to sleep if my hubby does it - but he'll put up a fight.

Going up the stairs without anyone watching her could be an independence thing / she's scared to fall.

The fork and toliet paper things seem to be a bit OCD to me (and I have OCD tendencies) but it could also just be part of her personality. I don't think it means she has OCD.

Some of these specific things may be her way to controlling the situation. It sounds like she's been through a lot of moves, problems sleeping, new baby, etc so maybe by her controlling the color of her fork, how she goes up the stairs, how the water is on, etc. it gives her a sense of security and stability.....

You just described my 3 (4 next month) year old to a T. I have actally posted on here about OCD issues w/my child before but everyone around me constantly tells me it's just the age/phase of life she's in and her need to control her environment to learn the skills she is seeking. She is my youngest so I have other kids to compare her behaviors with so part of me wants to believe them but part of me, my gut still says to keep logging her behaivors as it may come in handy. My 3yo by far has also been our worst sleeper:( Unless she is in a full on cry, I don't have the energy to keep dragging myself in there night after night anymore, it's unbearably exhausting so I have shut the monitor off and gone back to sleep just for my own sanity to deal with her the next morning.

Oh wow, I think your DD and I are/were twins.

I actually would only use a certain fork as a child, kinda crazy but I took it with me when I moved out. Lost it a few years back and I swear I had withdraws.

Toilet paper, has to be folded a certain way so that it covers my hand 'just right'.

I can not touch cotton balls or wet cotton clothing.

My almost 3 year old has a clear routine when it comes to teeth brushing, she does not like it to be changed up.

I'd like to say it's mommy all the time, but it's more big sister. She does have her 'favorites' and those are the only people that can help her do certain things.

I did go back and read your past post. My almost 3 year has ALWAYS woke up between 1/2 and gone back to sleep around 3/4. She did it as an infant and still does it. No amount of adjustment time fixes that. Sure I get lucky some nights and she doesn't but I would say 80% of the time she does. It is how she is made, I have just accepted that, and she doesn't nap.

So is it OCD, I don't know. I know I have some strange habits, but I am not OCD...just unique at times. I see it in my kids also.

I am responding with your additional update of her tantrums only lasting 5 minutes. Wonderful! That's considered "normal"!

My younger daughter had severe sleep issues, and "OCD-ish tendencies". Her meltdowns, or "fits" as we often called them would last up to FOUR HOURS!!! This was NOT normal... yet you would not believe how many years we were told by "the professionals" that she was "normal". Oh - and she still did not have "emotional problems." She had SYMPTOMS which affected her emotions, her sleep, her moods, her attention, but the symptoms themselves were not caused by "emotional" problems. She did get caught up in the psychiatric system for many years before we found the underlying biological problems causing her psychiatric symptoms, and could be treated more appropriately. Here is something her GP wrote: http://itsnotmental.blogspot.com/2011/01/childhood-onset-...

Some things are personality, and some OCD-ish tendencies are not necessarily a bad thing. I hope my surgeons have some OCDish tendencies - just not full-blown, life-disrupting OCD. We help kids cope with normal personality variations.

Here are two books you may want to read -
Saving Sammy: Curing the Boy Who Caught OCD - http://goo.gl/pmUhX
and
It's Not Mental - http://goo.gl/tzxrw

And... if I really thought there was a true "problem" causing abnormal brain functioning ("behaviours") if I had a "do-over" I'd take my child to an Integrative medical specialist to begin with. Integrative means they try to integrate the treatment of the WHOLE person - environment, emotions, physical/medical, psychiatric, nutritional, endocrine, etc.