Time Out Dilemma

Oh the joys of 2's!

Don't use the room. Use one specific spot. His room should be a good place to rest and play...

Keep placing him gently back into time-out.

Always remember, it's good he's testing the limits. It's his job right now;) He's depending on you to be consitent, firm, but loving.

You can always look into getting the book 123 Magic. A lot of my parents have really had good success w/ that book.

Good luck. He should be exhibiting similar behavior when he's 12;)

Cheers

first, children under 3 are too young for any kind of timeout even a positive time out. There are quite a number of good books on the topic eg. positive discipline by jane nielsen, unconditional parenting by alfie kohn and smart love by martha heineman pieper and william pieper. Also time outs were originally devised as a way to train pigeons "time out from positive reinforcement" was the complete name for the technique. A good body of clinical psychology research shows that instead of doing what you hope they will do, they actually are counter productive and instead foster distance between you and your child. Imagine if you were upset about something and your partner suggested you go somewhere else or sit in a chair etc etc. Just because so many people use time outs doesn't make it optimal. Half the world eats fast food and that doesn't make it nutritious. And the "we all grew up fine" so it must be okay is along the same lines. Think about the number of people who have only so so or worse relationships with their parents. At his age, I think learning more about what is developmentally appropriate may help you deal with your little one. He is likely still pretty young for taking a lot of direction. Musikgarten runs a fabulous parenting class called endzone that I found terrific. In stead of time out, I would try redirect or modeling appropriate behavior and also think about what it is you are asking him to do. If the issue is health and safety then getting him to do x may be necessary but a lot of things we ask children to do are more for us than for them. This doesn't mean that you are permissive, it is actually more work than either permissiveness or traditional discipline because the style of parenting recommended by Kohn et al is relational based. But the benefit is a closer relationship with your child. good luck.

Hi C.,
Two is definately a hard age. I took my son to Tuesday's Child for help when he was 2 1/2 because he wouldn't listen to a word I said.
I found time outs/naughty spot to be totally unaffective too. It would just upset him more.
Through the Tuesday's Child Program, we have learned to use dicipline as a way to teach. So lets say my son is playing with a toy too roughly. I say, "The way to keep playing with that toy is to be more gentle" and then I'll model what gentle means. If he contiunes to play with it roughly, I'll say, "I really want you to be able to play with that toy, but the way to keep playing with it is to play with it gently, like this-" and then I'll model it again. If he continues to play with it roughly then I'll say, "It looks like you're making the choice to play rough with that toy, so I'm going to have to take it away." He'll definately scream, but then I'll say- "You seem very angry." "Are you angry that momma took your toy away?" (YES) "The way to play with this toy is to be gentle." "I really want you to be able to play with it, so please be gentle."
If you continue to have problems with dicipline I would definately urge you to contact Tuesay's Child. They have helped us wonders!
blessings,
J.
http://www.tuesdayschildchicago.org/aboutus.htm

My pediatrician recommended 1-2-3 Magic for discipline for toddlers & beyond. It has helped with my dtr. We try to use time outs only for big offenses and use positive reinforcement or other appropriate consequences. For instance if she doesn't listen and takes too long to get her teethbrushed and put on her PJ's she doesn't get a story at night. However when she brushes her teeth and gets her PJ's on with only 1-2 requests we tell her she is a doing a great job. (She has only forfieted storytime once).
Also with time outs if they get out you put them back in and restart the timer. My dtr once had a 30 minute time out before she got the message. Now she knows to stay until the timer goes off. (That's how the Super Nanny does it).
I really have found though that positive reinforcement can go a long way though. It may take more time but in the long run you will get more consistent results. Hope this helps. It can be very frustrating. You really need to do what works for your child and what discipline strategies you feel comfortable with. Best of luck!

I read all the responses before replying so I wouldn't repeat. Here's my thought.

I teach 2 & 3 year olds and while I've never heard that time outs are inappropriate for that age group-- everybody gives them and unless you orchestrate it negatively I don't think it's any more negative than any other punishment-- I just realized I don't think I've ever actually given a time out to a 2 year old! Here's what I do.

2 year olds can understand reason once they calm down, so you have to sit him down and firmly wait for him to calm down before you ask him if he knows what he did and why it was wrong and what he can do to make it better. Usually a 2 year old can actually do that, though I don't know how young your 2 year old is. Then if you wanna do something like taking something away from him as his punishment, DON'T make it a bedtime story (unless it's bedtime) or anything that won't happen for several hours. 2 year olds need immediate gratification, so you have to take away something they wanna use right at that moment to be effective.

Yes, redirecting is best and easiest for mommy and kid at this age, but if he's doing something really MEAN or wrong redirecting won't cut it-- he needs to KNOW that his behavior is unacceptable! You can't just distract him cuz then he doesn't learn anything!

So here's what I do. When I have a student who's difficult I praise him at eeeevery corner all day long-- I mean if he so much as smiles I give him some sort of compliment. Then he learns to live for that praise and all I have to do is have a disappointed look on my face, or ignore him, and he knows when he's done something wrong and he feels bad himself without my having to "punish."

In terms of sending him to his bedroom, I think we all got sent there as kids and we turned out ok so I'm sure it's not damaging. The only reason I wouldn't send him there except if he's been acting up all night long and is being impossible-- is because bedrooms usually have toys and stuff and he may choose to play rather than to reflect. But you know what? When I'm mad I need to go to a completely different room to be alone too. Sometimes I need to flop down on my bed and cry and sit there for a while until I can be reasonable. So why shouldn't a 2 year old need the same?

I think you're doing just fine. Everyone has these situations. Oh and btw usually 1,2,3 then time out is best, not just one warning. 2 year olds have short term memories so 1 warning usually doesn't cut it. 3 are better. And usually if you start to count he'll get the idea by the count of 3 and then you won't hae to deal with any of it!

Good luck! I'm sure everything'll be fine!

HI C.,

I think the room is not the best choice b/c it has a lot of stimuli and you might not want it to be associated with punishment. Do you use a timer when you put him in time-out? That might help him stay put until the time is up. Also, after the time is up, we always have a conversation about what the time-out was for and other behaviors that would have been appropriate. If you have a process at the end, that also might signal that it's not over yet until that process happens. Finally, you might try sitting him closer to a wall, so that there's more of a constrained feeling. Our kids face the wall or the window and we try to limit distractors.

Good luck!

S.
mom of 6yo and 4yo

Hi C.,

I have been there! My daughter is 2 1/2 and we have fought the same battles.

We use the "naughty corner" as a punsihment. It took some time for her to recognize that being in the corner meant she had done something wrong. When we first started using this method, she would do the same thing as your son - she would turn around and try to walk away, usually laughing! I think she thought it was a game.

The key is to continue reinforcing the punishment. We would put her in the corner, and sometimes physically hold her there so she could not leave. We would let her out only after she said she was sorry and repeated the offense, for example "sorry for not listening". Then we made her give us a kiss as a sign of her apology. If she returned to bad behavior, we immediately put her back in the corner and repeated the scenario. Now she understands - if she goes to the corner, it means she was being a bad girl. Now just the threat of putting her in the corner is sometimes enough to curb the bad behavior.

My advice is to pick one method and stick to it. It will take time for your son to understand what's happening, but eventually he'll get it - I'm in the corner, I'm in trouble!

As an aside, I think using the bed as a punishment isn't good (don't want them to associate the bed with anything but sleep), but I don't think sending him to his room is a bad idea. I used to get sent to my room all the time as a punishment when I was a kid. I think a lot of kids were. If you feel this is what will work, then stick with that. Whichever method you choose, just be sure to keep it consistent.

Good luck! And may the force be with you : )

I also use my son's room and didn't want to at all. He just got too big to hold down in a stool and he is a mama's boy so it was just reinforcing. I think it is fine to do it. My son hates to be in his room alone and it has been effective. I also second 1-2-3 Magic, which is what we use, but it sounds like what you are doing is fine.

Of course 1 minute per age of the child is what is recommended.

I too read the other responses and you have received a lot of good advice. I'll just add that I believe punishment is a subset of the greater task of teaching your child the difference btw right and wrong and how to get along in the world. Your child's temporary discomfort and unhappiness at being punished is much less important than the long term lessons you are trying to teach him. Therefore, keep your eyes on the prize as they say. Find a punishment that will get your child's attention and be CONSISTENT.
I can't believe how many young parents I see trying to talk their child out of bad behavior: "oh johnny why did you do that....you know we don't do that.....please don't do that...." You get the picture...
My experience has been that consistent discipline is really hard sometimes but totally worth it!! Mine are 14, 12 and 5 and so far no felony arrests...
Good luck

A couple of thoughts: is there another punishement you can try, other than time out? Like taking away a treat or a privilege? Otherwise, it might be OK to give him a time out in his room if that's what works. I read that it's not ideal to use the room as punishment area, it should be a place that they like to go to, but we sometimes send our boys to their room if there's not another good time-out spot available (e.g., the rest of the family is using the LR/FR, or another child is taking a time out there) and I don't think it has made them feel negatively about their room, they still choose to play there, and don't seem to dislike being there. These are my two cents -- hope they help!

I'd recommend trying to redirect his behavior before telling him to stop. Kids that age tend to hear the last thing you tell them, so "stop spitting" equals "spitting" (an example from my 21 month old yesterday!) to a 2-year-old.

What I found helpful when working at preschools (and with my stubborn toddler) is to remove the child entirely from the situation and point them to another activity after an explaintion. So, if, your son is, say thowing books around rather than reading them, remind him that books are for reading, but balls are for throwing and direct him to some balls to throw.

If you are going to do the "time out" route, sit with him and talk to him about why he's sitting there... That it's just a way to calm down and that sometimes mommy has to take "time outs" also (I suggest telling him that you need a "time out" from time to time and sitting in his "time out" spot to cool off and calm down when you're feeling aggrivated to model that it's okay). I've actually seen kids put themselves in time out as a way to take a breath and get perspective. It's a fantastic life lesson.

Good luck!

Where is this time out location that he does not stay in? Not wanting to stay there is a good sign, he doesn't like it. And he shouldn't like his time out location. Our time out location for all three children (now 10,8,5) has always been the bottom step of the main stairway. Nothing to do, no toys to be sidetracked with, etc. I agree that the bedroom is not ideal. And personally, if he keeps getting up and chooses his own time out location, then he is winning the game. If you have to, sit there with him. Do not look at him just sit right next to him and even hold his leg down if you have to. Then, this is important, when his time out is done, explain to him again why he was there (when he gets older he should tell you why he was there) and say you know he will try harder to listen, and have him say sorry to you by looking into your eyes and then give him a hug. This ending really has worked well for us; they are learning so we don't want them to grow up with shame. We love them and are helping them to learn.

N.

www.nancyhoagland.myarbonne.com

Thanks Anne Marie! I was hoping someone would put the perspective about relationship based parenting out there. I am actually reading right now Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting and just finished John Gottman's How to Raise an Emotionally Intelligent Child. The only things I'd ad to you post- I agree, it takes A LOT more work to try to figure out what to do and how to respond to behavior issues instead of relying on the traditional time outs and punishments. It is not being dismissive as someone put- it takes great effort to try to help your toddler understand how he/she is feeling. A couple other points......when you get a child to do something based on how you will react/feel (ie- they see your disapointment and change their behavior) they do not develop the skills to read their own feelings/behavior and monitor themselves. They learn only to respond to other reinforcement, not for themselves.

Good luck- I highly recommend those two books. My son is 2.5 and I was feeling desperate to find some techniques that I felt supported his emotional development as well as helped him learn. I take advantage of the opportunity to comfort him when he is upset if he needs to put a toy away when he can not play w/it w/out throwing it. Yes, it is his fault that he needed to put the toy away, but it is also normal that he would be sad about that- an opportunity to bond and learn.