To Ferber or Not to Ferber....

L.:
here is the same response that I sent to Julie S:
I am bf-ing a 10 month old too, and I know all about sleep problems, and am not claiming to have the answer...however, please read this:
www.askdrsears.com/html/10/handout2.asp
It changed my mind about the CIO method (keep in mind I am not loyal to the "attached parenting" school of thought, and believe my baby should sleep in a crib). I just think everyone should have all the facts so they can make an INFORMED choice about what method to choose for their baby.
Good luck, sweetie.

i know its hard to think without sleep, let alone read.
But p-l-e-a-s-e read some Dr. Sears books, esp the Sleep Book.
Or Elizabeth Pantley's "The No Cry Sleep Solution".
Don't Ferberize unless you have a baby with a normaly easy going tempermant.
Some babies, with "persistent" temperaments can be harmed by this method.
Read just part of one chapter in the "Science of Parenting" to learn the latest brain research on this. some babies seem to adapt o.k., but there are many relapses anyway - vacations, teething, fever, lots of learning (as you stated), so to me the CIO method is not worth the short-term gain, for a possible long-term loss.

Hi L., Listen, don't waste your money on books. Here's my "short" story. I have 4 kids-17,16,7 and 14 mons. I have always rocked my kids to sleep with a bottle and never had a problem.......until little Aiden came along. I was firmly against any method that let my kids cry it out..I chastised my sister and sister in law for doing it to my precious nieces and nephews. Kinda gettin where I'm comin from?? :) Well little Aiden from the moment he was born 14 months ago was never a good sleeper, I grew very tired and frustrated and kept telling myself he will grow out of it. Well that time never came. He would fight the rocking, the bottle, the routines everything! When he was 11mons he was staying awake 4-5 hours at night from like 2-6am and taking one 1 hour nap during the day. He was overtired and would cry all the time even if I walked 4 feet away from him. One day after one of his predictable sleepless nights I just couldn't do it anymore..I could not think straight let alone try to function. I called my pediatrician and she said the inevitable "let him cry it out" I just about died inside...I didn't think I could do it. But I was desperate. So that was on a monday morning and I did just what she told me....He cried for one gut wrenching hour but then slept for 3!! I couldn't believe it. That night I failed-I just couldn't let him cry alone in the dark..so we were up all night, tried the bottle, my bed anything...nothing made him happy. Tuesday naptime he cried for 10 minutes...WHAT?!! O I can do this...Tuesday night I was determined darn it :) He cried for 10 minutes again...He woke up at 4am and cried for an hour. One tear my heart out hour. My husband stayed with me and reassured me I could do this!! Well he fell back to sleep! On the next night which was a Wednesday in early April he got it!!! He realized I was not coming to get him and the little insomniac is cured!! It took 2 1/2 days albeit hard ones for me. And now he loves to go to bed. I ask him if he's ready around 830, he shakes his head yes and now even dives into his crib. Total silence, totally happy, and such a good sleeper. I know it hurts--believe me I was a firm believer in holding my kids until they fell asleep.. I didn't think I could do it. But I did and you can too!! I swear. Yes it hurts, but only for a little while. Make it your own-does he like to cuddle-I gave Aiden a receiving blanket he loves it. Do you think he can handle you coming in and out of the room to comfort him? Then go ahead-I decided it would just make Aiden worse-so I didn't go back in. Now I can even put his laundry away while he sleeps :) You can do it L.-you are not alone. T.

L.

At about 5 months is when I started to let my babies cry themselves to sleep. I would start with a bedtime routine, bath, bottle, story, rock until sleepy then into the crib. If they cried I would wait 5 or 10 minutes then go reassure them that they are ok, then leave again, wait 10 or 15 minutes, then 15 or 20 etc. The trick was to soothe them by being there and speaking softly for a minute, then leave. Don't pick them up! The do need to learn how to soothe themselves and once they do, betime and naptime is so much more beneficial for everybody. It might take a few nights but if you are absoultely consistent then it shouldn't take too long. I am glad that I did it because everyone get to sleep. Just a note though, my daughter would become more and more upset if we went in to check on her so we wound up just having to say good night and waiting her out, it didn't take long at all though and she would be fast asleep. With my son my husband seemed more soothing to him than I - maybe an expectation from the baby, not sure. Just find a way that you can handle and go from there, if you are consistent then baby will learn to fall asleep.

We need to sleep as much as our babies, if not more so because in order for us to do our job as mothers that requires tremendous amounts of energy. Yes, they are only babies once but that doesn't mean that they can't learn how to sleep in their crib for bedtime. In the course of my "day job" I have witnessed many, many tragic outcomes from "co-sleeping" - I have nightmares about it. That's as far as I'll go about that. That alone should make people "sad" not the fact that you are exhausted and want your baby to sleep safely and peacefully in his crib.

Hi L.,
I am not technically familiar with any of the official "sleep training methods." But I have a son who is 5 and has put himself to sleep since he was your child's age. We would do the bed routine, put him in crib drowsy, but not asleep. Soft music, nite light, etc. When he cries, check every 5-10 minutes. Don't pick up, just soothe. Gradually increase the time increments between the check-in's. It will be a ROUGH 3-4 nights but he'll get it! Good luck to you all!
Afterthought: It really saddens me that you were attacked by another mom posting on this site that I find (ordinarily) to be so supportive and understanding. I'm sorry, L., that you had to be exposed to such closed-mindedness and judgement. I'm completely unaware of any other human being (mom or otherwise) who can be an endless fountain of nurturing when operating on sleep deprivation. I urge you to recognize those types of posts for what they are: self-righteous spewing, and do what's best for YOU and your family. We've (mostly) all walked in your shoes at O. time or the other. In the end, that's what makes us GOOD moms.

L.,

We follow Ferber ( I hate to tell you this, but it is a continual approach to sleep, not a
"once and done"), but I read a bunch of different books before picking an approach that works for our family. Ferber actually helped me realize that I had unrealistic expectations about how much the baby could sleep. I think we should declare a new Mamasource rule that people can't discuss sleep training methods by name without having read the whole book (and most recent edition). And that includes anyone who refers to Ferber as "CIO" or that you can't Ferber and co-sleep. That might cut down on a lot of misconceptions and flaming.

You need sleep. Not, "you want sleep", you need it. How are you supposed to produce good quality breastmilk, play, be a good wife, or safely drive your car (with your child in it) without sleep ? Not to mention if you work outside the home. Get some sleep, and don't let anyone make you feel guilty about it.

I swear by The Sleepeasy Solution by Jennifer Waldburger. It is a variation of Ferber. The book is an easy read and deals with every immaginable sleep problem up to age 5.
Within a week of sticking to my sleep plan my daughter was sleeping 3-4 hours in naps (she was 4 1/2 months old) and 12 hours a night. She is now 8 months old and continues to be an excellent sleeper.
sleep training isn't easy but it is so worth the effort. It is best for them to learn to sleep earlier rather than later!
Hope this helps you. Good luck!

Hi L.,

I think your baby might be a little too young for the Ferber method. When babies are less than 12 months they dont' really have the ability to understand why they are being left alone and they can feel abandonment. When they get a little older then they understand that it is bed-time. But right now your son is still quite young. We used Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution with our son and had good luck. We also co-slept at night until he was about 11-12 months old. You might try having your baby sleep next to your husband instead of you - that way he won't "smell" you and want to nurse when he wakes up.

Good luck!
J.
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I didn't "Ferber" our baby until she was 19 months old and it took about 3 days. Up until that point, we partially co-slept (she slept in her crib until she awoke for her first feeding and finished the night out in our bed) and I nursed her 1-2 times throughout the night. My opinion....8 months is too young to Ferber.

We did the Ferber for my oldest son, but not until he was a little over 12 months old. Our doctor said that they won't 'get it' if they're younger than that. Luckily my younger son was a bit easier... or we had learned from our mistakes with the first one.

Another thing you may want to try is to not let him nap so much during the day. Either 2 1-hour naps or 1 1.5 to 2-hour nap might be enough. He'll be tired until he gets used to the change, but it may be what he needs to be good and tired for bed time.

Good luck, this part is not easy, but it will pass.

Before doing anything, call your pediatrician to rule out any health issues such as an ear infection. I'd also recommend reading Dr. Sear's Baby Sleep book. His methods are based on solid scientific research and the research on how crying it out effects the brain shouldn't be ignored. There is a specific section, "Should Baby Cry It Out". He says the problem with crying it out is not the crying itself, but the crying ALONE. You may have to enlist the help of your husband in the process and it will be really hard and take longer than CIO, but far more sensitive to the needs of your baby.
Also, there is nothing wrong with your co-sleeping with your baby. An 8 month old with responsible parents who are not on drugs or alcohol are not going to smother their child. Have faith in your instincts. I think there is more pressure to let our kids cry it out because we think baby should be doing this or that by now. Relax and trust your intuition. If you do, you'll figure out what's best for your child. I've found myself getting frustrated with my baby's sleep habits after reading what "other people's" children where supposedly doing. There are drawbacks and advantages to every "method", you just need to read about them from sources with sound scientific evidence. You're doing great!!! Trust you instincts!!!

The 3-Day Sleep Solution worked for us! We did it at 4 months, though... but it's a good place to start. I also highly recommend "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth. It helps you to understand changes in sleep patterns, etc. 3-day says 2 hours between naps, and that was fine for my 4-month old, but at 8 months she goes about 3 hours now. There was some crying involved, and the first night was the toughest on all of us, but my daughter is a great little sleeper now (knock on wood)! 3-day also suggests no nighttime feedings, which I did not agree with at the time, and Weissbluth gives other recommendations for nighttime feedings. If you're exhausted and looking for a quick solution, crying is most likely going to take place, but it will be ok soon. I personally found that at that level of exhaustion, it was better for all of us to let her "cry it out" - as difficult as it was. Good luck!!

We used Babywise with both of our kiddos (3 1/2 year old boy and 5 month old girl). They are on a great schedule and VERY happy children. My daughter's current schedule is up at 6 to nurse & have some solids - we are still introducing them, play time until about 8 or 8:30, then bed until 11ish, nurse & solids at 11:15, play, bed at 2ish, wake at 4, nurse & solids, usually she doesn't go back ti bed until after 8:30 when she nurses for the last time and then goes directly to bed until 6 the next morning. I also usually pump right before I go to bed (so I have milk for her cereal the next day and to keep up the supply).

If you have a chance, read the first Babywise book. The best part about this book is that it helped me teach my daughter (and her older brother) to put themselves to sleep - a wonderful skill at 3 a.m. =O}

The basics are that you put the baby to sleep when he is tired, and if he cries, you go in and pat / comfort him after 5 minutes. Lay him back down, and repeat in 5 minutes. Reeat 10 minutes later if needed... My daughter currenlt usually only fusses for about 1-2 minutes before she falls asleep & she wakes up very happy.

If you have any other questions about this, just let me know. Good luck =O}

Both of my sister-in laws are NICU nurses and i must agree that the co-sleeping stories are very sad :( I am sorry that you were attaked by one of the moms on here. She has a strong opinion and risky advice. I can sympathize with your frustration as well as many other moms. That does not warrant the response that you received. I wish you luck in whatever you choose to do. Before you know it this stage will pass and you all will be having wonderful nights sleep :-)

Hi L.!

We definitely taught our children healthy sleep habits at a young age. What worked for our family was crib sleeping from day one. My kids LOVE(d) their crib. It is familiar to them as they have been sleeping in it since they were newbies.
We would do the night routine and have plenty of cuddle time and reading before bed. Then we put them in the crib drowsy. My daughter only took one night of crying for 20 minutes and she has been sleeping for 11 hours every night since. My son took maybe three or four nights then he got it.

I so disagree with the idea that this is cruel somehow. No one is suggesting to throw your kids in a crib and let them cry all night. Teaching your kids healthy sleep habits so they can learn to comfort themselves when you are not there is not cruel. My children sleep 11 hours a night and are well rested and so are we in the morning.

You are going to get vastly different opinions on this matter and now you have mine. There are far worse things in the world to be sad about - teaching your children how to get to sleep is not one of them. It is a loving, responsible choice. Do what works for your family! If that means co-sleeping, then do it! Do what will allow everyone a safe, restful sleep.

Peace,
M.

Many of my friends suggested "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child." They had great success with it and I did too. I always recommend this book. What is very nice about this book or any sleep training book is that they give you the "norms" of sleeping at a given age. So along with these guidlines comes your own knowledge of your child. For us, I adjusted the plan a bit by going in at 5 mins...10min...20 mins etc to reassure my son. I did this at 4months and at 7 months after an illness that messed up our sleep training. but he picked it up each time by the second night. it sounds like your little one is over tired which makes for a difficult day and night for both of you. Good luck!

Hi L., I will be honest. My girls are older and I am not familar with "Ferber" although I have seen the name thrown around here a lot. Here is my best advice. Keep a strict routine. Put your son in bed and walk out of the room with a quiet goodnight. Let him cry for a bit. Go back into the room (don't say anything) just lay him back down, pat his back for a few minutes (so he calms down) and leave again. Then go a bit longer and let DAD go in. Or you might even try letting DAD take over the bedtime routine. My hubby was the king of bedtime in our house. He could put all of our daughters in their cribs wide awake and they would be asleep before he could walk down the stairs. Maybe he just needs a change of pace from Mom all day. What ever you decide to do, Don't put him in your bed again. It only takes once to start a hard habit to break when a child is little and it comes to eating and sleeping. You might also want to think about cutting one of those three naps...that's a lot when you are putting him to bed so early. Good luck and best wishes.

Don't let anybody make you feel bad about trying FERBER!! I recommend it 100%!!! Those who say it is mean haven't read the book. The method teaches your child to go to sleep on his/her own. There are time tables for going back in the room and patting the baby. It is NOT cruel and it works like a charm. Don't waste one more minute of sleepless life. GO GET THAT BOOK! It saved both my kids and my marriage. I loved each baby even more once he started to sleep- because I had enough energy to feel the love!!! I was a better mom after doing it and it is the best thing I have ever done for my kids. Bedtime is NEVER difficult for us now with a six year old and a two year old.

My daughter was not easily soothed back to sleep, she's 11 months old now. I had to let her cry and learn to soothe herself, both at nap time and bedtime. Now she takes 2 great naps (1.5 hours each) and goes to bed happily awake each night. It was hard to do (especially with our 3 year old across the hall) but it was just a few days of listening to her cry, occasionally. I think it's worth a try!

i highly suggest buying the Ferber book "Solve your Child's Sleep Problems" and reading it prior to using Ferber. Most people have misconceptions about what Ferber is and how to use it properly.

That being said, Ferber saved my life!!! I had a perfect sleeper until she went through teething 6 teeth back to back and she was sleeping in the bed with me. On the first night of Ferber, she woke up 1 time, and since then, she's been sleeping through the night. However, it is suggested you wait until he doesn't need a night feeding. At 8 months i'm surprised he still is taking a night feeding. maybe it is more for comfort than food?

well anyways, yes, read the book, then try Ferber. i hated the fact that i had to resort to it at first, but now, i'm proud. it worked so well for us!

Hi L.,

My daughter is going through the same thing! She is 8 1/2 months old and I've also been chalking it up to the same things you are. She's learning so much right now like crawling and pulling up. She's also teething. Another thing that's new is that she's starting the stage of seperation anxiety and learning to throw fits when she's unhappy. I'm pretty convinced that 8 months is just a hard time for parents because our babies are developing so much emotionally and physically right now.

My daughter is very fitful at night also and wakes up crying. I've noticed that when she wakes she is immediately up on her knees and crawling around. It's almost like her brain won't let her relax and wants to keep practicing crawling insead of letting her sleep.

I did figure out how to get my daughter to sleep longer. We had to finally give in to allowing her to sleep with a blanket. Now when she gets up she finds her binky and snuggles up with her blankie and goes back to sleep. She still wakes up 3 to 5 times a night but she always gets herself back to sleep. The only time she won't is if she looses her binky outside the crib and then I just have to go in and give it to her and she settles back down.

It is harder to get her to take naps now but I keep the same routine every time and try everytime she looks tired. I'll get 2 or 3 one hour naps out of her a day. Even during naps she wakes restless but sooths herself back to sleep when she has her snuggly blanket.

Hopefully this helps. Just try to stick to your routines you had before so he doesn't learn that fits will get him what he wants like sleeping with you. Maybe a new security object like a blanket or one of your shirts will help him soothe himself back to sleep. If he's still upset when you put him to bed try letting him cry for a couple minutes. It wears them out a little more. Then you can go in an quietly soothe him after every few minutes so he knows he's okay.

Good luck and hang in there. It's a tough stage :)

Dear L.,

YES, YES YES! Ferber is the way to go. I have three children...11y , 3y and 9 months. All have been Feber-ized to one degree or another. It is a tough process sometimes but all of the hard work pays off in the end. I highly recommend the method to any mother/father dealing with sleep/bedtime issues. A book called, "Solve your Child's Sleep Problems" was a life saver as well.

Godd luck with everything.

-M.

Hi L.:
That is so frustrating and I have been there! We did wind up letting both of our kids 'cry it out' and they are both great sleepers now (3.5 and 18 months). A book that I love that can help whatever your parenting philosophy (i.e. cry it out, comfort, etc) is 'Heathly Sleep Habits, Healthy Baby'. This booked really helped us with both of our kids sleep issues.

Good luck!
Jen

I did a combo of Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child and the Ferber method. At first I was completely opposed to crying it out, I tried the book "The No Cry Sleep Solution" and drove myself crazy. The key is that my baby needed sleep, and by me constantly trying to comfort her and rock her to sleep, she wasn't able to know how to lay down drowsy and fall asleep on her own. She was sleep deprived, and now she isn't.

I found that once I implemented the strategies in the other books, my daughter (around your son's age when I started) started making progress. I never let her cry indefintely, and I go in there and comfort her when I can sense she needs it. Especially nap time is amazing- I will put her down and now she'll fuss maybe 5 minutes and go to sleep for 2 hours at a time. Her night sleep isn't perfect, there's still nights where she wakes up once, but it's defintely so much better than the every 1-2 hours that she used to be doing. Good luck with whatever method you choose!

L. Please Ferber!! I have four children the first I did not ferber, did exactly what you are doing, which seems perfect and now he is 6 soon to be 7 and he STILL has sleep issues. The one thing DO NOT let him in bed with you.
Ferbering is hard they WILL cry but you can do it and it is sooo worth it. My other 3 I ferbered and they are great sleepers. My 16 month old twins still cry everytime I put them down AWAKE but within 7 minutes (which yes seems like a long time) they settle and fall back to sleep. at 8 months I ferber them and they are now sleeping 6:30-6:30. Once or twice a night they will wake up and cry but they quickly (1-2 minutes) settle themselves and fall back to sleep. The most improtant part is... they need to learn to fall asleep and re fall asleep BY THEMSELVES. Good luck it is really hard but worth it! By the way this is the first time I have ever answered anything like this but I can still remember the frustation I had with my first and my advise is train them young and everyone is happier that way. One more thing they are alittle expensive but it gives me a piece of mind is the summer brand moniter it has a camera and get the one that has the large screen. it is about $300.00. You can see what they are doing instead of just hearing that heartbreaking cry. It has been a good piece of mind and what is even better is when he is 12 months and older you get to watch him wake up and liten to that precious babbling and watch him playing by himself in the crib. again good luck

Is your husband available to put him down at night? Our usual routine involves me putting our youngest to bed, but there are plenty of times when it is not me that she wants. I will feed her, but if she still acts restless I happily pass her over to Daddy. Perhaps your husband can have a go one night and see if the change makes any difference. Good luck.