Toddler That Does Not Have a Bedtime

Well, this is easy....leavet the room, close the door. Don't try to negotiate with her. She's not allowed to pick her bed time, so just put her in bed and leave. If she comes out, put her back in.

I'm sure you will think that I am a mean ogre, but really, you are just playing a game with your daughter, and as cute as it may be, it isn't productive. Your daughter knows as long as she can have you in the room arguing with her, she will not have to sleep.

She needs to know that after bedtime routine (story, teeth are brushed, whatever your routine is) that it is time for bed, and there is no arguing about it. Lay her down, kiss her, and tell her it's time to sleep, and leave the room. Staying in the room is obviously not working. Wait 5 minutes, go back in, tell her it's bed time, kiss her and leave again. I know some people don't believe in the cry it out method, but usually that is for smaller children, and your daughter has obviously learned to manipulate you and your husband into thinking it's all part of the bedtime ritual.

My son is 26 months and will occasionally throw a fit at bed time, and sometimes he just will get out of bed and play with his toys. My husband and I alternate going in and re-tucking him in. Eventually he goes to sleep, and more often than not it is within 2 or 3 times of us going in.

Being consistent with your child isn't being mean, it is simply teaching her boundaries and showing her that she cannot get away with crossing them.

Good luck and I'm sure soon enough you will have a tear free bedtime!

I love watching Super Nanny. She says that you put them to bed, explain once what the rule is, give her a kiss, and leave the room. If she comes out, you put her in bed, say one thing, and leave. The next time you don't say anything. You just put her in bed, and leave the room (no matter if it's 10 seconds or several minutes in between). On the shows that she does this it takes several hours, but the next night is less time, and usually by the 3rd night they go right to sleep. I think it's definitely worth the try!

J.-my husband and I sat and laughed at that video only because if she wasn't a girl, we would think it was our son. We have heard all the same things, "I am not tired, I want to watch Curious George, you are not my mother, don't say that." If you look back, a few pages, I have posted a question for help on the same issue. We have our good evenings and our bad evenings. I am trying really hard to stick to our bedtime routine which is about 20 mins long, bath, jamies, potty, teeth, book, drink, prayers, bedtime. When he comes out, we tell him "it is bedtime" and walk him back to bed. Then everytime after that, we say nothing and put him back to bed. This has worked in the past, just hoping it will work now! GOOD LUCK with your very cute little girl and let me know if you come up with any tricks!
Lisa

I guess I'm the odd one out who didn't think watching an overtired and overwrought child is either cute or fun. I'm more into happy videos. But thats me.

My first thought watching it was she is so, so in control of the situation, and you're not. But you are the parent, right? Start your bedtime routine at 6:30pm, have her ready for bed at 7pm. Put her in bed, turn on the nightlight, close the door. Walk away. Let her rant, rave, cry, scream, cajole, play, whatever she does in an effort to stay awake. Go in and silently put her back to bed every 15 mins. After a week or so, she'll get the idea you mean business. Stay strong.

If you spend that much time with her every night telling her how tired she is and that you're Mamma and that she doesn't need to watch a movie, you are buying into her tactics WAY too much!
She's safe, she's warm, and she has people who love her. Tell her that before you put her down, and EVERY time you have to put her back into her bed. Say nothing more than that. Make sure you do your routine EVERY NIGHT without fail, even if you are at someone else's house, or on vacation. NO television or videos after dinner. It just hypes them up and ruins their sleep!

My 14 year-old did these things, and it took us one week to get things firmly in his mind, and that we meant what we said. Our routine was brush the teeth, story-time, prayer time, bedtime. We did the cuddling during story-time so he didn't go to bed without feeling loved, he got to say what he was thankful for during prayer time, and bedtime was just that! If he got out of bed, he was put back in immediately. Monsters? We had monster spray that was just colored water with some calming essential oils mixed in. He got to spray it around, so HE was the strong hero, and felt in control of getting rid of them. The shark under the bed WAS a little harder at times... : )
He can now sleep if a parade was going through his bedroom.

I always had a tape recorder in there for soft Primary music or Brite Music (email me, and I can tell you where to get it A.S.A.P.), which has wonderful messages in it, and he learned to love music and sang to himself every night!

It is hard to hear our little ones so upset, but your little one has had her tantrums reinforced by you buying in to them every single night for 2 years. I know you're sick of it, and maybe she is,too. She may subconsciously feel this is the way you like it, and she is trying to do what you expect. Change your expectations, and you will change the behavior! Kids aren't as young as we think they are.
I'm in Provo. You can call me @ ###-###-#### if you would like, any day after 2. I go to school full time!
Good luck, and stick to your guns! I know your daughter is as tired of her behavior as you are.

Boy, that has to be very exhausting to have to deal with every night. I didn't read everyone's responses but I have to agree with a bedtime ritual every night. I have also heard the same thing about letting them cry for 15 or 20 minutes than go in and put back in bed or sooth and go out. Keep doing this and she will understand she can't get away with throwing her tantrums. I am sure that has to be fustrating but keep up being firm with her so she knows you mean business and you are in control. Good luck.

I didn't get to watch the vid, I can certainly imagine. Our 2.75 yr old has CRAZY tantrums, lately it's been pretty challenging. You are not alone!
I have held the consistency with bedtime/naptime routine, same thing EVERY time, no matter how much she fusses, talking the whole time about how this is what we do EVERY day, EVERY night, it's time (1pm, 7:30pm) to goto bed. Then go through the routine, tell her I LOVE YOU, sweet dreams, and then leave the room.
It IS challenging. I try to remember that THIS TOO SHALL PASS, to keep humor in the process, to let go of results.

I have come to realize, children are supposed to push all the boundaries we've set about, as parents we are supposed to stick to those boundaries no matter what the reaction. If I did continually change the routine in an attempt to cajole my daughter into bed (or anywhere else), I will have conceded that she runs things, not me. Eventually the stability of her world would dissolve----everything I have read says stability, predictability, consistency is best---if that stability is gone, I feel that I haven't done my job as a mommy.

HANG IN THERE J.!
Good JOB mommin!

Hi, J.. I'm not sure if you usually talk to Bree for so long, or if you were just doing it for the video, but I would say to try the following ideas:
1. Stop engaging her so much. Just say good night, give her a kiss, and leave the room. If she comes out, put her back in her bed, say good night, and leave the room. Just keep this up until she stays in her bed or falls asleep on the floor--whatever--but don't give in.
2. Maybe try reading a book and cuddling vs. watching any movies before bed. The movies may be getting her overstimulated and making it hard for her to wind down.
3. Try a bath before bed.
4. Try putting on some quiet music when you put her down, and letting her pick out a "friend" (stuffed animal/cozy) to sleep with.

I think the biggest thing is just keeping it simple, and not engaging with her too much. Kids will keep talking to you in order to stay awake; if you don't return the exchange, they won't have anyone to talk to, and they'll go to sleep.
Good luck!
S.

J.,

What I see in this video is a little girl who is very afraid of her dreams. She has a wonderful idea to fill her mind with some wonderful peaceful thoughts as she is falling asleep. At this age, Bree has a challenging time distinguishing fantasy from reality, especially in dreams.

Assist her to have a peaceful night by finding movies that only have peace and quiet in them. If you can take the time to lay with her, especially on days that she feels anxious, fantastic. I believe too many parents feel that they are pampering their children by listening to their desires. The world would be a wonderful place if children could realize that all good desires that can be granted were available to them. What kind of message do we want to send them about their home and family? Disney had the right idea... "When you wish about a star..." Its time for parents to be "fairy
godmothers".

With my whole heart, C.

Hi J.,
I know you've already received a TON of responses, but I'm very concerned about some of the advice that suggest giving her the option of entertaining herself, i.e. play with toys in bed, watch a movie in bed, etc. I can tell you from personal experience that's a TERRIBLE idea.

For the sake of my OWN comfort, I gave in and allowed my kids to play in bed, until they decided they were tired. I knew they were already tired, but I didn't want to deal with the fight, so against my better judgement, I gave in.

I now have two teenaged girls who struggle with sleep, several nights a week, pretty much EVERY week. They believe they "need" to go to sleep watching a movie or with music,(and not soft soothing music, but rather rock music, via an ipod & earbuds), etc. etc. And there's NOTHING I can do about it. It's too late. Oh how I wish the Super Nanny had been around 18 years ago!! I hope & believe with maturity, they will develop better sleep habits, but I surely didn't do them any favors, and I can make suggestions, but I no longer have the ability to influence their behavior. Thank God it's not too late for you!

The best suggestion I saw, was the one from Annie J on 2/16. She got it right. Follow your bedtime routine, whatever it may be, put her in bed, say I love you/good night, turn off the light, leave the room, & close the door. If she comes out of her room, DON'T turn the light on, say ONE TIME, "its bedtime, I love you" or whatever you usually say, put her back in bed, leave the room and close the door. After that, every time say NOTHING and put her back in bed & leave the room, door closed. If she doesn't come out of her room, but throws the tantrum, IGNORE IT COMPLETELY. No attention of any kind, good or bad. It's so hard, but it's very very necessary. Right now, Bree is in charge, and she's too young to be in charge. She needs and wants you to be in charge. It's what gives her security.

She's a very intelligent little girl. That's obvious from the video. I really believe that she will figure it out pretty quickly that what she's doing isn't working anymore, as long as you stick with it. The key is consistency and unfortunately that's the hardest part.

Hindsite is always 20/20... and regret, SUCKS.

You have my very best wishes,
M.

TOO FUNNY! It is typical for a child to test you to the core, even for two years. She looks really tired.

I agree with the other posters you need to start the bedtime process about an hour earlier. I would get a routine down, the same thing every night, forewarn how long before time to get ready for bed about 30 minutes beforehand, then say "if you DO NOT pitch a fit tonight, then you can get a smiley face, if you get 15 smileys, we will got to Target and get a surprise, but you have to be a big girl about it"....then put up a chart. DO THIS BEFORE THE FIT STARTS!!

A visual is a huge thing for my son and helps me in all sorts of issues. Lay her in her own bed and walk out. Ignore her, when she gets no reaction from you at all, then it will make her not want to do it after a while.

I have a four year old that complains, not tantrums but EVERY SINGLE night had to protest, it was silly and he went to bed but I was sick of it. So we just implemented this smiley face thing, he actually now is so excited to get a smiley in the hopes to get a cool new gadget, lego or action figure that he goes without an issue. He takes such pride in seeing the smileys he has earned and I reenforce how proud I am of him being a big boy. A few nights he has slipped up and whined and I threaten to remove a smiley if he starts a fit, it is done, he goes to bed nicely. It took literally two nights, bedtime is a breeze and not an issue any longer.

You need to regain control, be matter of fact, don't laugh, get angry or anything, Pick her up, get her ready for bed if she won't do it alone, lay her down and tell her if she calms down you can have a story together, if not and she is still screaming, just say nicely "Well that is your choice" and walk out of her room!! Put it back on her and Her CHOICES! She will see you have no breaking point and give it up eventually, make sure your hubby stands united and you all together will not give into her fits, then each night it will get easier. She just wants to push you to your breaking point and her fits are keeping her up and she needs at least 12 hours to get the rest she needs for her age.

Being overly tired will backfire on you. Don't let her get to this point. That way if you start all of this at 8:00 and it takes 45 minutes then she isn't going to bed until 9!! My four year old is in bed by 7:15 and my eight year old by 8:00.

We have all bee there J., and that is why we are all laughing . Because we remember how frustrating it is. If you can watch the super nanny. She is on fridays. The routine she teaches is alot like the first person told you. Very effective.
I hear the need for her to watch a movie.
With my girls i would do the bedtime routine and then they could lay down to watch a movie . I would turn the volume down quite a bit so they would really concentrate on the movie and then before you know it they are passed out.
Also -- if she takes naps you might want to cut them back or completely stop them.
Hey you are a great momma and don't let this get to you. There are alot of worse things you could be battling.

J.:
i am a SAHM of 3 kids and sometimes look forwward to bedtime so i can have relax time.
i am not sure what you do already-but i have the same schedule at bedtime. first we have a bath, pjs, brush teeth, potty, short bedtime book, (pray), hugs and kisses then lights out. you have to teach kids at an early age to stay in bed and they usually learn quickly to go to sleep.
i turn the lights out and pull the door almost shut.
next i would suggest not having a "conversation" with her when she is in bed. maybe that was for the video, not sure. but tell her good night-love her-etc. and tun the light out and leave the room pulling the door almost shut. if she gets up-don't say much-"it's bedtime-good night" and put her back in bed and pull the door almost closed. she may do it a hundred times and each time do the same thing. you have to stick to it. it may even take up to a week, but if you do the same thing each night at bed time and show her she is not getting out of bed and thats it, she will learn she is not getting up. don't give in to her questions or request or reasons why she should watch her show. lights out-end of conversation. tantrums may get louder-just ignore her if she is in bed. after a few days the crying should get shorter and shorter.
i hope this helps! if all else fails-call the suppernanny
T. d.

I also did not think that was cute nor funny. She's cute, but her whining is definitely NOT cute. Partly because kids whining is just so annoying. (I have 4 very young kids, so don't think I'm just saying that because I don't know what it's like) Whining is not tolerated in my house. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen... 500 times a day. It just doesn't get them what they want. It sounds like it's time to leave the room! You're staying in there way too long and just letting her manipulate the situation. Maybe you were only there that night because you were trying to get a video. I don't know. But if that's anything like what really happens, it's time to put your foot down. Start a routine if you don't have one. Minimum: brush teeth, get jammies on, get in bed. Same thing, same time every night. It would be beneficial to read a book to her. Kids love the one-on-one time spent reading books, and it can be an alternative to "I want to watch a movie!" You can tell her, "No movie tonight, but I'll read you a book." If she fusses and fights that, then she doesn't get a book either. Make it her choice. Tell her she can have you read her a book, or she can yell and cry and go to bed without a book. You can tell her that she can pick putting on jammies first, or brush teeth first. Let her have control over the things you're going to do anyway. Don't let her manipulate you into letting her stay up longer (whether it's giving in and letting her fall asleep to a movie, or just being up arguing.) If you don't get a handle on this now, you're just asking for trouble. In the video, she's obviously tired. She's just fighting to stay up because it works. Leave the room and shut the door. Good luck with this one!

I would say that she gets over tired. Snuggle with her for awhile right before bedtime. Tell her if she goes to sleep then she can watch a video in the morning. Bribe her with special things. Like she can help cook breakfast or a tea party. Worked for me. There wasn't the tantrum but she just didn't want to give up the time with us. She is still nosey that way. She just wants to be with you.
After reading the other responses I have to agree with them. Even though she wants to be with you you still have to stand your ground. Don't give in to the tears. Get your routine and stick to it. Be tough about this or you'll have this problem forever.

I believe you have to play mean mommy for a while. Have a plan & explain it to her & keep to it and it'll change, might take a week or two though.
For example: make sure she is really tired - if it is 9pm (you can make it earlier with time), it is fine. Let her play up to then, then say it is bedtime (give 5 minute warnings), read one book only, not more, cuddle for a minute and then sit next to her bed for 10 minutes or so while holding her hand, no talking, just "sh-ing" if she talks. She needs to know it is bedtime and no arguing, not talking. If she breaks the rule you will leave the room. Let her cry. She is old enough! Go back in, ask if she wants you to sit next to her bed and she tries to sleep and be quite then you can come back. If she prefers to argue or whine, so be it, but without you. Create a plan that works for you. Has to be easy so that she gets it. And stick to it! Alternatively, you can say she can either sleep or read a book alone, which should make her more tired. You also have to look at when she gets up in the morning and if she still takes a nap - she really might not be too tired at 8pm.
good luck

Oh my gosh, J.! That was so funny! I cannot believe how patient you are! Are you that patient every night? What a nice mom you are! I have a 2 1/2 yr old. He doesn't go to bed until about 9:30. If we tried it any earlier he would be the same way as your little daughter. And he doesn't take naps anymore either. If I do force naps, then bedtime is even more of a nightmare. Do you have a bedtime routine? Maybe you could let her stay up a little later. At 7:00 you could sit down and watch a movie with her, have some popcorn and let her know that when the movie is over then it is bedtime. That's a tough one since you've been dealing with this for so long already. I'm a meanie and we had to teach our kid by just letting him cry himself to sleep.

Good luck!!

A.

Does she have her own bed? A nightly routine would help her. When we moved our kids to big kid beds it took 3 nights and they went to bed on their own and went to sleep. Because my husband works 14 hour days 3 days a week our routine has changed a wee bit, but not much. Our kids do not take naps during the day. We eat dinner. Then they have to go up and put their jammies on. The twins are 2 so they need help putting their jammies on. Then we have them all go potty and then brush their teeth. Then they all go to their rooms pick out a book and get into bed. THen I will go and read to each one their story. Tuck them in and shut their doors part way. They cuddle down and go straight to sleep.

What you need to do is to be consistent, whatever routine you establish. Then when she gets out of bed, do not talk to her, but gently guide her back to her bed and make her lay down. She will test you and continue to do this, but you need to make sure you don't talk with her. If she stays in her bed and throws her tantrum then you need to lay her in bed, sit down on the floor with your back to her and wait for her to calm down and she will do this within a few minutes. We had to do this with one of the twins and in 15 minutes he was settled down and headed to sleep. Hopefully this has helped you, and good luck.

Wow! That is very challenging! If you are providing plenty of positive attention earlier in the day their is no reason for that behavior. MY 8 year old was a challenge at that age also. Thsi may sound awful but I would provide her a relaxing CD to listen to, child proof the house well, tuck her in with lots of love telling her you will be going to your room and not coming out till morning becuase it is bed time for everyone. Shut your door and get your kleenex because the first couple nights will be rough. I used to tell my kids that Mommy needs sleep too and the house bedtime is 8:00 and I love them and will see them in the morning. This will make you feel terrible but it is am important boundary for her to learn. I am a single mother of 2 and know how exhaustinf tantrum can be. Despite some hard lessons I am very close with both of my children. They are 8 and 10 and go to bed with no issues now.

This was cute. Only a mom with similar issues can appreciate it, right? I am by no means a sleep expert (2 non-sleepers here), but I found that consistency is vital to making a bedtime. We start a bedtime routine around 7:15. I don't bathe my kids at night as it somehow does not calm my daughter. We brush teeth, read 2 books (of her choosing), sing a song and I rub her back, and turn off the light.

I can't let my toddler sleep in past 7:30 am or she doesn't go to bed at night. She used to go to bed between 9 and 10, but now goes down between 7:45 and 8:15. Early naptime (if she takes one) helps. If she isn't napping by 2:00, I try not to let her nap.

I have also heard to make bedtime earlier by 15 minutes at a time for a few weeks. Keep in mind that daylight savings is coming up, so that might help.

Good luck and thanks for the smile.

I have a daughter the same age, and this behavior is quite familiar. Whew- the whining and "I want" at this age sometimes are enough to drive me insane. What I would recommend is totally child-proofing her room if it's not already, then be quite firm that it's bedtime. Tell her if she is not sleepy yet, she may play quietly in her room for a few minutes before she puts her head down. Turn on a night light, put some quiet music on, close the door and leave. This has worked well for us. I have given up trying to reason with her, I feel it just reinforces the whining because she is getting attention for it. The first few nights we did this, she whined and cried and complained in her room and fell asleep on the floor. Now she plays in bed with her stuffed animals and books and goes to sleep. The key is to be firm and consistent, once she realizes that you mean it when you say it's bedtime, the behavior will get better. Hope this helps some!

you may have already gotten a response like this, but since i'm in a hurry, i'm not going to check this time. my oldest son loves tv. if it is on, it doesn't matter what he is doing, how hungry or tired he is, or if he is even interested in the show. he will stop everything to watch. i love sitting down in front of the tv with a snack when the kids are in bed and finally getting time alone. but because of my son's tv obsession, i had to stop watching tv at night for a while. sometimes it was really frustrating because there would be a show i really wanted to see, but to keep my kids in bed i had to record it and watch when they were sleeping, if i was still awake by then. but eventually my son found that reading books and playing with his stuffed animals in bed were good enough entertainment until he felt sleepy. eventually i was able to watch tv at night again without trouble from him. another thing that helps is books on tape/cd. however if we just got back from the library with something new, he'll stay awake to hear the whole thing no matter how tired he is. so some nights we have to put limits to that as well and just play music. if you think your daughter might just want more time with you to wind down at night, it might help to play a recording of yourself reading or singing for her. good luck! i know 3 yr olds can be exasperating!

I see you have a ton of responses and I am not going to read them all. But pleeeease don't baby talk and use the tone of voice that you use on the video. Act like the parent. you are not her friend you are her mother! Be firm. It takes two to argue. Don't say anything but back to bed. No conversation on her excuses or what she wants to do. There is no discussion! Follow your routine and when she is in bed be the mom. You can do it. I raised 6 kids and you can do this and be firm. A lot of this is in your tone of voice believe it or not.

Do you normally stay in the room with her or was that just for the filming? Here are a few things I have found helpful with my own children. They have done studies that have found that when children watch tv near bedtime, they have increased difficulty falling asleep. I do not allow the tv on after dinner until after the kids are asleep. I notice a real difference if it has been on as opposed to when there is no tv. Also, what is your bedtime routine like. A bedtime routine should be at least 20 min. long and be the same every night. At my house they take a bath, have a small, healthy snack, read some stories brush teeth, say prayers, I snuggle with each one in their bed for about 5 minutes and then they go to sleep. I have no trouble with any of them getting back, crying or anything.

Because your daughter has developed a routine of crying, tantruming it may take awhile for her to learn better sleep habits. Get rid of tv time, at least an hour before bedtime. Make a consistent bedtime routine that works for your family. Then put her to bed and leave. Everytime she gets out of bed simply say, "Bree, it is bedtime. Goodnight." Put her back in bed, say nothing more, and leave the room. After three or four times, no longer say anything at all to her (she knows) and just put her back in bed and leave. It may take a long long time at first but you will see it shorten over time and eventually she will get the idea. Hope this helps - my oldest had a really hard time going to bed. I read every book I could get my hands on - Ferber's "Resolving Your Child's Sleep Problems" is the best. After learning a few things, I had no trouble with my other two!

Ok, so what I'm seeing is that she's the one in control here. She is dragging it out and coming up with reasons to stay up. What you are doing (restating her, reasoning what she did, etc) is GREAT for daytime. But not at bedtime. You restate what she said and she calms a bit then screams more when you tell her know. It's like she maybe thinks she's going to get it.

My suggestion is to stop the negotiating. Use a firm voice. Tell her "its time to go to sleep. Lie down or I will have to leave the room." (and follow through). Do not negotiate or try to reason. If she says she wants to watch t.v. just say "it's time to go to sleep. Lie down now." (It doesn't help her to remind her of what she already watched.) If you want to lie down next to her that's ok, it might help her calm down (she may still need help soothing herself to sleep. It's OK, she's only 3, it'll come over time and I really don't believe that it hurts anything for you to help her). But don't make it a negotiation - don't ask her if she wants you to; she's taking that offer and trying to get more out of it. Just sit or lie next to her, help her lie down (physically lie her down) and cuddle with her until she's asleep.

To be honest, her tantrums aren't too severe (based on the video). My kids would really scream, roll around on the floor, etc. It looks like you and she are doing ok. Just stay firm and remember that you are the one in charge and you don't need to justify that to her at all. (If she say's your not the mom, ignore it and tell her again to lie down.) As she gets older, it will calm down. I know that it doesn't feel like it right now. My daughter was similar - from the time she was 1 until she was 3 (about) she didn't want to go to bed. She was one who would scream (shrieking screams) and fight me (I'd try to cuddle and she'd squirm and push me away - bedtime felt like an ultimate sport!) but she grew out of it around 3 1/2 or 4 and has been really good at going to bed since. Just stick with it :)

I do feel for you, having had trouble with one of my children many years ago. First of all, is this her room and normal bed, or was it your bedroom. If it was your room, make sure you now put her to bed in her own room, in her own bed. Start a routine of bath, bedtime story quite time, NO MOVIES, it stimulates her too much. Then quietly tell her its now time for sleep and leave the room. DO NOT get into a conversation with her. Let her have her tantrum (it won;t hurt her). Hard as it is, ignore it. If she leaves the room, take her quietly back to bed, but do not engage in conversation or argue with her. Keep doing this night after night. You may feel that your living a nightmare, but it will work.

You are the boss in your house, not a three year old child.