Uncomfortable Conversation

Never teach a child to be scared of strangers. Strangers are friends we haven't met yet. Strangers are the people who help us when we are in trouble. We should talk to strangers. What you need to teach is that you never go somewhere with ANYONE without asking mom/dad first.

I've always told my daughter that she can talk to strangers, but never go with one. Use common sense, you don't want her to be afraid of people. We also go over who works somewhere when we go. For example, we go to the Walmart and I point out the people in blue shirts with nametags, so she knows who to go to if we happened to be separated, although thankfully this has never happened.

I hate stranger danger and all mechanized ways to explain common sense. Fact is an adult will not ask a child for instructions, they will not ask you to get in a car to look for their dog.

I have never raised my kids with the blow sunshine a lot of parents do. The you are so brilliant, so special, I hang on your every word. It gives children this false sense of importance. I have met a lot of kids who think they are far smarter than their parents so of course a stranger will need their help.

So parents make it reasonable for the child to believe they have the knowledge of the ages, tell them everyone sees their brilliance, then tries to explain, well except those that will try to do them harm.

I know, kind of running in different directions here. My point is whether or not you believe in child empowerment, check it at the door. Make your child understand one simple concept, adults ask other adults for help that requires them to leave with them. They do not ask children because you don't have a car, you don't have a phone, you don't really have any knowledge of your subdivision beyond where other kids live and you probably don't even know their parent's names beyond Mr and Mrs S..

Understanding that any child will stop and think dude! no way you need me, I will go get my mom and see if she can help you. Turn and walk/run away.

Hit the library.

And stranger danger, sadly, statistically is NOT where the danger lies. It's people you KNOW. I say this from personal experience that, yes, there is a small chance a stranger could be dangerous. But it's usually family, friends, or people that are familiar that take advantage of their position.

Also - police are strangers, firemen, etc., anyone who your child would go to for help in a store are strangers, so stranger danger isn't helpful.

http://safekidsconsulting.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/an-alt...

Perhaps your pediatrician might be able to recommend some materials.

the problem is with 'stranger danger' is that while evil strangers are terrifying and extremely dangerous, they're also extremely rare. so empowerment and child safety and so forth aren't concepts that we just 'teach' kids when they're 'old enough', its a constantly growing and developing conversation that we go on having until they're teens and making decisions without us around. at 4 it sounds as if she's right about where she should be, but how to handle a stranger without danger OR fear depends to some degree on your child's personality. you don't want to dampen down an enthusiastic people-person, nor force a shy child to have to make the 'right' conversation and then determine the danger potential.
she may be ready for the 'secret question' gambit, which is helpful for kids who tend to get picked up by a variety of people, such as children whose parents are divorced but have shared custody, and in-laws and nannies might be involved. but having to memorize an unlikely question and its answer is in itself frightening for some kids.
i think the best way to start is to teach kids that it's okay to say NO, politely but firmly, and loudly if necessary. this is good whether it's a kid trying to take their football, or someone trying to tempt them outside the daycare fence. it's never a bad message for kids to learn that no means no, whether they're on the receiving or delivering end. and if they say it to the doctor, you'll be there to explain why it's okay in THIS circumstance.
of course, then you have to cope with them saying it to you<G>. but that's a whole 'nother nuance.
the fact is, when they're very young as your daughter is, there's a limited amount of information we can give them without making the world a scary place. we need to allow incremental information along with incremental freedom in the world, and when they're very young, it's more on us to make sure that they are safe without having to take their safety into their own hands. what a 4 year old knows about stranger danger should be much less and much more simple than what a 10 year old knows.
khairete
S.

Awesome book:
http://www.amazon.com/Berenstain-Bears-Learn-About-Strang...

In the book, Sister Bear learns from Brother Bear that not all strangers can be trusted, and then she gets scared. Mama Bear explains that almost everyone she'll ever meet will be a 'good apple', and not to let the occasional 'bad apples' ruin her fun.

I read this book to DD around 4 and around the same time taught her my phone number. We also played little games like "If grandma came to pick you up from school would you go with her?" ("YES!") "If Mommy's best friend Angela came to school to get you would you go with her?" ("YES!") "If somebody came to school and said they knew mommy but you didn't know them, would you go with them?" ("NO!") "What if they brought cookies? A million cookies?" ("NOOOOO!")

Separately we had the "Your body is just for you" talk. We basically said that the parts that a swimsuit covered up are just for her, and most of the time, no one else needs to see them or touch them. The only exceptions is if a doctor might need to do an examination or Mommy or Daddy have to help you with a medical problem, but always Mommy or Daddy will be there. I wouldn't combine that one with stranger danger, and I think that much information is plenty at 4.

My daughter was super friendly, outgoing (and quite sheltered), and needed "the talk". I realize that some kids are more cautious naturally and might become needlessly scared, so I would take your own child's temperament into consideration.

ETA: And I definitely agree with Suz T that teaching your child to say "No" is a bigger part of this conversation too. They should know that part of owning their own bodies is being able to say "NO!" when someone touches them in a way they don't like. You can use an example of a friend who always wants to hold hands/hug. Your child may not feel like hugging or holding hands, and it's OK to say "No, I don't want that" even if it's a friend, even if the gesture is seemingly "nice".

No need to scare her in order to teach her to be safe.
At 4, my daughter knew that MOST people are nice, but that there are a few who aren't, so in public, always stay close to Mommy and never go with anyone else unless Mommy says it's okay.
She knew that her body, including her girly bits belonged to HER, and that no one had permission to touch her there.
She knew that anytime someone told her, "Don't tell your mommy about this," that the FIRST thing she needed to do was come tell me.

Once again, most children are molested by family members or close family friends. So, I have no idea what you want to tell her about strangers, but you should definitely talk to her about feeling free to tell you if anyone you KNOW touches her inappropriately or makes her feel uncomfortable.

I know, I know, no one in your family or anyone you know would EVER do such a thing. If I only had a nickel for every parent who thought that I would not be at work now!

I think you can find age-appropriate ways to bring it up. For example, we tell DD "There is a police officer/security guard/firefighter...if you get lost, you can find someone like that to go to for help." Or "Many people are friendly and you are friendly, but don't talk to people you don't know or go off with them without Mommy or Daddy or Nana or whatever adult you are with telling you it is OK." We taught her 911 and our phone numbers, address and real full names.

We also talk about secrets. The pediatrician's take was "It is OK to keep good short-term secrets like what you got Mommy for her birthday. If you are so excited, you can tell Daddy instead. It is not OK to keep forever secrets, especially if anyone asks you not to tell either of your parents."

I tell DD that even if she thinks I might be upset, if something makes her sad or scared she can always, always tell me. I might be upset, but I can't help fix something I don't know.

ETA: Giving a child permission to say No sometimes to an adult is huge. It is a tough thing to teach a people pleaser but I try to remind DD the difference between a teacher asking her to do something in class and someone asking her to do something she is uncomfortable with in secret.

Just say a BIG FAT NO to "Stranger Danger."

The fact is that strangers are not dangerous just because they're strangers.

Julie S. hit the nail right on the head. Teach your daughter to use her head, not to be afraid.

My kids loved the Safe Side Superchick video - it's silly and engaging and teaches them in an empowering and nonthreatening way. It's made by Julie Clark (Baby Einstein) and John Walsh (America's Most Wanted). Google it. They've made more activities and related materials since my kids were that age.

She's not too young. The video recasts the concept from "stranger danger" to "safe side adults" (parents and one or two others of your choosing whom you trust implicitly), "kinda knows" (the adults you are familiar with but with whom you don't have permission to leave, like neighbors and coaches), and "don't knows." My son was that age when we started watching the video and discussing it. And the video has an accompanying web site with activities: http://thesafeside.com

I suggest she is too young for stranger danger. Won't she always be with a trusted adult? Her brain isn't mature enough to understand the whole picture.

She does need to know to only people she knows. Be direct and tell her that she is only to be with and list those people if someone to ask her to go. Also talk about only talking to people when you and listed people are by her side. No need to use anything special. Just have conversations with her as you're out and about. Don't sit her down and talk. By talking while you're in place she is more able to make the connection.

Why would this be uncomfortable? I can't help you with that until I know why.

Here's some ideas on how to start a conversation. A stranger says something like "what a cute girl you are." After that person leaves comment on how the lady was pleasant and it was good to talk to her because you were with her.

Later; I wasn't aware there are programs for this age. Yes, use those.

And I especially like the explanations of how to teach say no. Gamma G explained well how we do need to understand a larger picture than stranger danger and how saying no fits in that picture.

Funny, but Julie S's approach is how I have taught my son to be aware of what is 'normal' behavior and what isn't. We kept it simple when he was four, basically reviewing Every Single Time we went to public places what to do if he couldn't find me (sit down right where you are and don't move, don't go with anyone unless it's a mommy with kids). My son is friendly with everyone, the word 'stranger' really doesn't mean much to him and it's fairly ambiguous, so we have focused on "good grown-ups" and "Bad grown ups".... good grown ups won't ask you to open a door for them (at home), to come with them, or ask you to help find their puppy, because they know ONLY Mommies or Daddies should be doing those things with them." Good grownups will ask your mom or dad before offering you a snack because that's what they are supposed to do. Likewise, if someone starts asking for help, tell them "go ask my mom". etc.

I focus on behaviors, not how well we know other people. We talk about people who make us feel good, safe and happy and other people who make us feel not-so-good, who make us want to be away from them.

And then, I consider it my responsibility to make sure he's within sight/sound of me when we are out and about. He's seven now and has moderate, manageable experiences with being independent, and we still talk about what are safe behaviors, who to go with (a mom with kids), etc.

I say all this just because the 'stranger danger' method can be harmful. One child who was missing almost wasn't found because it was an adult rescue worker calling his name, so he hid. It wasn't mom or dad, as he'd been taught, and he was just doing what he'd been told. He hid from the 'bad' stranger and almost wasn't found.

Instead, teach about what to do if someone tries to take you away: kick, bite scream, fight. We talk about how bodies can be your best weapon, too.

Keep it simple and remember, at this age, having them close when you are out at busy public places is still the best bet.

Oh, and lastly, this doesn't NEED to be an uncomfortable conversation. This is just presenting information as simply as possible; if your daughter asks about the 'bad guys', keep it simple. You want to inform without making her afraid. Remember, you have a lot of other potentially-uncomfortable conversations in the future,this is only one conversation in a long line of them about her taking good care of herself.

You need to adjust your way of thinking about this. It isn't a one-time conversation that she needs to be "old enough" to understand. It's a conversation... that progresses as she matures.

Start simple (as you already have) and expand the conversation as she grows. It isn't something you address once and you're done.

I haven't yet started on this type of discussion with my 3yo. All that I offer to you is this: We have always empowered him not to feel pressured to be hugged, picked up, or touched at all by people he doesn't know or feel comfortable with. I don't insist that "it's okay" if he's obviously not okay with it. I let him warm up to people in his way. I require him to speak (hello/goodbye) when we enter or exit, but--even with relatives--he doesn't have to feel pressure to "come here and give me a hug". In fact, unless he's being summoned by a caregiver, he doesn't have to "come here" at all. It's pissed off certain people, but it's more important to me that he grow up feeling that he has a choice in who touches him. We'll teach him specifics as he grows.

Just want to point out that Marda spent many years working as a police officer, so she has a point of view from the law enforcement side. The thing is, you could end up making her afraid of people, or she could end up having nightmares and sleep disturbances.

Our son's preschool used Yello Dyno to teach about this.

http://www.yellodyno.com/html/ydvids.html

"The Safe Side" videos were good when my kid was younger. We didn't have "safe side superchick" then but there were videos that told kids about adults who were " green, yellow or red" -- green was adults your child knew personally and well (safe adults), yellow meant caution and red meant get away from that situation fast.

But your child, at four, is a bit young for these, I think -- they may scare her, and at her age she is not ready to make the kinds of distinctions between people and situations that are needed.

At four, I'd go with: What a bathing suit covers is only for mom, dad and the doctor to touch. Not day care providers, school teachers, anyone else. Bring it up as it occurs naturally -- don't create a whole "we need to talk" atmosphere or she'll think "Mommy needs to tell me something sad or bad and I don't want to hear it!"

And the other key point for young kids is one that others have mentioned too-- it's OK to say hi to a stranger and be nice, but never ever GO anywhere with one. A crucial part of that: Never go with someone who tells you "Your mommy sent me to get you." That is a common ploy used with kids -- I know your mom/dad, they sent me to get you so it's OK to come with me. Be clear that ONLY mom or dad (or the aunt or grandparent they know very well) is the one to pick them up from place X. The other ploy: "Let me show you my puppy/kitten at my house" or the plea, "Help me find my lost puppy" etc. This one isn't a myth -- it was used in our area a few years back to get a young kid to come up to a guy's vehicle when the guy said he was looking for a lost puppy, and could the child come over here to the car for a minute? The guy didn't snatch the kid but that's because an adult relative was nearby (the reports said the relative probably couldn't be seen by the driver but was pretty close) and stopped the kid -- who was about to walk to the vehicle. The adult called the cops but of course the guy had peeled out and fled.

So stick to bathing suit rule; only go places with mom or dad (leave the "or aunt or grandma" for the specific situation as it arises); and the rule that adults do NOT ask kids for help.

Even that may be too much at four, depending on your child. I think if you sit her down and do a Big Talk trying to cover it all, you will scare her to bits and she also won't absorb the "what to do" message.

But it's good to make a start now. The key of course is that she should never be where someone "off" can approach her without your hearing and seeing it all and being close enough to intervene. That's the way it has to be.

Body parts covered by a bathing suit are for mom, dad, docs and caregivers only.

Tell her is she's ever lost to find a mom--any mom. Tell her dads are safe but moms are better at finding where she should be (safer).

4 years old - she should know about stranger danger and non-stranger danger. Tell her that NO ONE should touch her anywhere that a bikini bathing suit would touch. It's a very easy visual for her to understand. The only person that can touch that are is herself as it's her body. And even a doctor or nurse needs to ask mommy and daddy first.

Remember to always warn her not to help strangers EVER! So if someone says, my doggie is lost, will you help me look for him. That's a sign to RUN! That she shouldn't be talking to strangers. If they try to talk to her, to just run away.

Another good thing I was taught and passed on to my daughter was that if she ever got lost or was in a situation where she needed an adult and I wasn't there - to go and find a MOMMY! So a woman with a child or two. Chances are, no mommy will turn away a child in need. They will make a call or stay with the child until mommy finds her. I thought that was great advice. It's something I would do.

Stranger Danger is one of the worst programs ever conceived. The truth is 75 - 90% of ALL sexual assults are committed by someone the victim knows and trusts.

Stranger Danger instills fear in people. Do not let the fear mongers win.

Safe Side Super Chick is a good movie to have her watch. I bought it on itunes (also available on DVD or maybe from the library). I bought the Safe Side Super Chick Stranger Danger video and the Internet Safety video. John Walsh helped put them together (his son was kidnapped and killed -- he does America's Most Wanted). I also read "My private parts" with my kids. Keep it matter of fact and she won't be too freaked out.

I went to Barnes and Noble. They have a whole section on important subjects like what you're interested in, plus about how babies are made for when she's older, manners, death, etc. I read some of the books to my kids there and then checked some of them out from the library. I also highly recommend the book "Protetcting the Gift" for you to read. I plan on reading it with my kids when they are teenagers. It is written by an expert in violence (he trains bodyguards for presidents, etc) and the book is about trusting your instinct and learning to recognize signs of a predator. It was very informational. There are many more things than strangers for you to teach your daughter to be cautious around.

Yes, it's not the STRANGERS who are really the danger. Now, to answer your question there is an awesome video called The Safe Side. You can probably rent it at the library. It's all about BOTH the real dangers of strangers AND family friends, coaches, relatives, etc. The video is great. It's really funny, keeps the kids' attention, and you can get more ideas for how to talk to her by watching it too. I watched it with my kids and hit pause and talked to them as we watched it.