Unmotivated Student - SO Frustrated!

First, I agree wholeheartedly that the language around being 'smart' needs to change. Here's an excellent article in the New York Magazine by Po Bronson which I really think speaks to the problem with the "smart" label:
http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

You've received a lot of good advice, so I will add in one more thing-- I think your son, at 15, needs to be present for this meeting and every single meeting regarding his education. He's old enough to hear the truth-- if he's failing, HE needs to see how that failure affect his academic future. You being the only person having to deal with the emotional work of these meetings is nonsense. This isn't a punishment, this is a natural consequence of his not doing the work.

A lot of people suggest having your son find his passion. While that is a great idea, it may be that he chooses NOT to be interested/motivated, and then, surviving is really not about getting to do something you love, it's about cultivating basic skills like task follow-through and giving a care enough to keep one's job. Do talk to a mental health counselor and have him checked for depression, because I think that's important, but you need to also make sure he understands that your expectations include him being able to either go to college or work after he has graduated.

When my GS was 14, he was also very unmotivated in school and was in danger of having to repeat the 9th grade. So, we switched him to independent study and he spent his days working with his grandfather. We told him since it appeared he was choosing to use his back to make a living rather than his mind, he should experience it.

After the first week, he started going to bed at 6:30 p.m,! Said he was exhausted every day. After a month or so, we saw him really diving into his school work and he asked to return to regular school. He is now a junior in high school, on track to graduate on time and getting good grades.

Sometimes you just have to show them the other side of the fence.

I would suggest you make your son get a HARD job and then let him make his own choices. It's his life.

Great responses so far. And pay attention to the responses who tell you that only HE can motivate himself, because it's true. Some kids might be plenty smart, but until they find a reason to push themselves to excel, nothing their parents say or do will change that.

In addition, pay attention to S.H.'s response about calling your son "smart." Stop all references to his intelligence. It's all about effort. Tell him this, and praise him ONLY when you see effort, and praise him ONLY for his hard work, NOT for his brains.

Research shows that praising intelligence over effort has adverse effects. Google Carol Dweck and read/listen to what she says. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTXrV0_3UjY

DON'T stress yourself and create discord in your house over this. Allow your son to be different from his wunderkind sibling. All kids have their own path. Just because second sibling is a wunderkind does not guarantee him/her a happier or more successful life.

Don't dread the meeting -- use their ideas to attempt to assist your child. Reread Julie S.'s advice. And Julie S. turned out to be a happy, fully-functioning adult, and so will your son, one way or another.

There are many roads to Rome.

Some kids or many kids, have been told ALL their life, how "smart" they are. They are complimented, that way. That is all they hear.

But, "smart" is not something that just happens. It takes, work. It is something that is attained, not just is. It is not a "character trait" or behavior trait.
It is something, that describes a person.
And, being smart is not everything.
And, when a child is told that all the time, how SMART they are, being told that all their life, it really does not help them. It can 'handicap' them as well.

I work at an elementary school.
I was talking to a boy once. And in all honesty he told me "I can do whatever I want, because I'm smart."
He thinks, in his young age, that smartness... IS what he is and it is a personality and that it is a character trait. And that, it is his ticket to be and do anything he wants. Even if that is, being a jerk, of a classmate.
Which he is.
Because, since he is so "smart" he thinks that no one will ever really take that away from him. Because they cherish him being "so smart..." so much. And he is, just a special little snow flake. And he's always been that way. And treated that way. Because, he is "so smart...."
But what he does not know, is that, he is now, just so myopic.
And he is lazy.
And he does not know, that "being" so smart takes work and learning.
And that, it is not an excuse for all his icky behavior. And he cannot use it, as a "get me out" ticket, in life.
This kid is in 5th grade.
I dread, when he hits middle school.
With the perspective he has.
It does not matter how smart he is.

And in fact, many of the "smart" kids... are the very ones that are the most, ill behaved. I see this. I work at a school. But they think they can get away with it... because they "are so smart...." and/or in GT classes.

I also know a Mom, with a genius of a boy. He is now 16. He is brilliant. And has a photographic memory. So he thinks because he can memorize everything so well, he doesn't have to study or work for things or practice anything. However, his parents work on "him" and his character a ton. And he is also, high functioning Asperger's. Lay people cannot tell. But some can.

Being "so smart".... and being told that all your life, does not create success or not.
It can also be very myopic.
And it can also handicap, the person.
And it can also, limit a person.

I had this experience with my stepdaughter. She was never motivated by anything and still isn't. It is heart breaking to watch. Like a freight train you know is going to crash. She dropped out of high school (under her
Mothers supervision) and I paid for her to get a GED at the local community college (her request). All she has to do is show up. She started but never finished. I really believed I could help her. The bottom line is she doesn't want to do any different than what she's doing. When/if she does decide to help herself I will be her biggest cheerleader. A phrase I have adopted with her is, "I am so sorry that happened. I know you're a bright person and you'll figure out what to do next". Or yikes, that's scary, what are you going to do now. She is 27, has never held a job longer than 6 months and is happy living with several people who have the same ambitions she does.

Fast forward a few years with the two kids my husband and I have. I am determined to have them own their mistakes. I am determined not to prevent them from failing. I am determined not to assume responsibility for their decisions.

There's a great book called Bright Minds Poor Grades also Love and Logic for Teens. It is imperative your son own his choices and the aftermath. His mistakes will never be cheaper than they are now. My sister in law didn't rescue her daughter from failing 8th grade. I thought at the time it was horrible that she wasn't helping her or having her go to summer school. Her daughter was plenty bright and she knew it. Her daughter just didn't "feel like" doing her work. She repeated 8th grade and woke up. She finished high school and received a scholarship to college. Her mother was wise.

As hard as it is, like others have said, HE has to want to do the work. You can't motivate him. You can say rats, I wish I could let you go with your friends to the mall, but since you're being irresponsible with your studies I can't trust you to be responsible with your friends. Lots of empathy, no lecture.

Good luck in trying to figure things out. Please put the responsibility of grades where it belongs. On your sons back. I told my daughter recently that the grades she earned in HS were just that. Her grades. I've already completed high school and am successful. Her grades won't have any bearing on my life. They will only affect hers.

Hard to do. Very hard to do, but necessary.

Blessings!
L.

I know that anecdotal evidence does not make a case, but here's my family's personal experience, for what it's worth.

My brother was also this kind of kid. He was an underachiever all the way through school, partly because he had no interest whatsoever in what was being taught. He could not see why he needed to work at learning things that he didn't see as relevant, and he had no tolerance for tasks he couldn't see a purpose to. He barely passed 9th grade.

He completely turned around in his junior year. I think there are two reasons for this. First, my parents, despairing of his ever getting into college, encouraged him to start working as soon as he was legally eligible to do so, which was during his sophomore year. He started as a runner/errand boy/strong back for a local construction company. And he found that while the work was hard, he liked it. He got interested in learning how a construction site worked. Soon the guys at the company realized he had a brain, and started teaching him surveying and other construction related skills. And his grades at school started getting better, perhaps because he was maturing and developing a work ethic. Then he hit calculus and physics in his senior year and LOVED it. Suddenly the barely getting by student was making A's.

While it was too late for him to redeem his grades enough to earn a scholarship, he did get into college. He went into engineering and earned A's in all of his major courses, and did at least well enough to pass in his other courses (grumbling all the way that he couldn't see why he needed to take them).

Today he is a successful civil engineer. He designs storm water management systems for businesses and municipalities on the coast. He is happy.

Perhaps what your son needs is to find his passion.

I had a friend like that.
Brilliant as all get out - everyone told him what a bright future he had, etc and so forth.
But he didn't have an ambitious bone in his body.
He joined the army, eventually got a medical discharge and has wandered from job to job every few years.

The bottom line is - HE'S got to want to - NO ONE ELSE can make him want to.
From your son's performance in school I would not be assuming that he is college bound or even wants to be.
Don't throw your money away on it.
Start talking about trade schools.
If he wants to pursue college eventually some day, then he's bright enough to find a way to make it happen for himself.
With a driver's license he can work - as a stock boy, bus boy, deliver pizza, etc - he needs to start working and find out what menial labor is all about.
If you don't work with your brain you end up working with your hands and your back for fairly low wages.
Maybe THEN he'll see the point of applying himself at school.

(My son's 15, in 9th grade, applied and was accepted into the STEM program and is acing his engineering courses. I'm not sure which engineering he'll end up in (there are so many) but he loves to build and design things and wants to build aircraft carriers some day.)

Maybe this is out of left field, but have you ever had him tested for ADHD? There is a component of this disorder where the child is not hyperactive, but is simply inattentive. This can manifest itself in disorganization, inability to pay attention properly, inability to get complete assignments done, getting them done but forgetting to turn them in... My kids are younger than yours, but my youngest was in that "brilliant but not working to her capacity" category. I had her tested, and she is off the charts ADHD. We haven't gone the route of medication yet (we haven't really needed to, since we homeschool) - but for a teenager, medication is a possibility and might really help.

Anyway, it's just a thought. He may not be TRYING to be such a flake, it may just be that he is wired a bit differently, especially since you say he has always been this way.

Nervy Girl's article is excellent and is well-worth the read. (Thank you for sharing it, Nervy Girl!)

I agree that your son should attend the meeting, too. He needs to have some ownership of his education.

What supports have you given him to help him learn how to manage his time? Does he have a good planner, electronic or paper? Some kids lack executive functioning skills and need to be taught how to manage time and organize their notebooks/backpacks/time.

Don't dread the meeting. Go in with a list of questions, take good notes and get your boy back on track. Good luck and keep us posted.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it"

Get your son working papers and have him get a job. School really isn't for everyone and I really do believe that it is far more important that as a parent we raise good people vs motivated, high achievers. Your son is bright however so I suspect he may see the value of school when he gets a low paying job with limited opportunities because of a lack of education.

Good luck!!! I know how frustrating this is, my daughter was very similar to your son but has seen the light:). She is 15 yo and a sophomore.

Just one thought about the post and it's not about your sophomore son.

You mention at the very end that "my second child is turning into a scholastic wunderkind."

I have a feeling you would not ever do this, at least not wittingly, but please take care never to compare one kid to the other in front of them -- neither telling the older kid "your sibling is able to manage time!" nor telling the younger one (tempting as this would be, as a form of encouragement), "Thank goodness we don't have to worry about YOU and school...." Why not say that to the wunderkind? It's dismissive and puts his or her successes only in the context of who he or she is not -- the brother -- rather than who he or she truly is.

You don't want your younger child to feel that the older one is getting heaps of attention -- and yes, "negative" attention is still attention -- while the younger kid, the "good child," the one who's "no trouble at all" academically, gets patted on the head and told to carry on. I've had friends, now adults, who went through that as the good, academic second child, and have other friends whom I see doing this with their kids now: The one who is nailing academics gets plenty of "good job" comments but the parents are actually so absorbed by the needs of the kid who is in academic (or other) trouble that they don't bother to go beyond that. They don't know what the academically strong kid really likes, or whether that kid is actually really stressed and strained by working hard for the good grades; they don't realize that the kid actually hates a subject, because she does fine in terms of grades.

Not saying that's the case in your household, but noting that it's important to take care that the more academically inclined child isn't defined by being easy and smart, and isn't treated as "Whew, we're off the hook with YOU at least, thanks" -- because that makes the kid feel responsible for mom and dad's happiness.

I know, it's a big-picture thing that may not apply to your situation, but something I just wanted to bring up, in terms of the dynamics that can remain unseen when parents have one "problem child" and one "perfect child."

I know what you mean about dreading the meeting. It is incredibly frustrating to have a kid who just doesn't seem to care at all. I have three children, two girls who did everything on time with very little involvement from us and then one son, who did as little as possible and often didn't even turn in the things he did finish. He is/was incredibly smart and we tried everything to motivate him. It doesn't work. We did manage to get him to graduate high school (with a few night school classes to make up for what he choose not to do in regular school). He went on and joined the Air Force (again after we basically said he had to get a job/go to school/do something or get out.) Five years later he has just returned home with his wife, has and apartment and he has finally decided that college is the way to go. He has started his classes and seems to be doing well. I say a little prayer everyday that he will focus and do well.

I wish you luck for you and your son. I wouldn't get your hopes up that some miracle thing will help him. I think you just have to plug along each day doing your best with him and hope for it to work out in the end. I have many friends who have had the same issue with their boys and for most, with a little/lot of persistence, they come out okay in the end.

Having older boys, I can say the landscape of this country is littered with smart underachievers.

The advice on finding his passion is good. When we took our first child around visiting colleges, the biggest benefit was the youngest finally took an interest in his grades. Not that he had done poorly before, but he knew what it took to be gaurenteed a spot in college(top 10 percent in Texas).
He was still clueless on his passion but he was focused on a goal.

Start looking beyond HS. It's hard to see beyond boring classes and teachers and ENDLESS tests. Besides the constant nagging, bribery and manipulation of the adults giving him attention. Stop appologizing for your youngest's success. Start giving both a taste of the freedom and possibilities of college.

Get the book, Unmasking Male Depression. It could give you a place to start understanding his behavior and get help if he needs it. There is an epidemic of depression in our schools. Be proactive when you see signs.

Been there, done that! So frustrating! We had a child who just could not seem to make it "happen" from gradeschool on; he would work on an assignment forever and not turn it in. We worked on getting him successful experiences so he could feel good about himself--an art class, skiing, a horseback class, saxophone lessons. It was very frustrating to take him to private lessons and have him not even practice. But somehow, he was successful. I think he saw things "happening" for people, but never focused on the work that was involved. Lots of pictures taken so he could see his experiences. Once a student gets to the ninth grade, those semester grades follow him the rest of his life; and that information alone motivated some. He also got "the job from hell"; and that motivated him during and after high school. Community college was wonderful; it had teachers who cared and worked with him. We paid for this unmotivated student to go to two years of school; then we said we were done. Lots of blown-off and dropped classes inspired this decision. We had other kids to put through college. We never played games; we always said exactly what was expected. Our child got a new work ethic; graduated, found his passion. Lots of prayer, lots of talks about everything you do either opens a door or shuts it. Figure it out. Some of his experiences were terrible; but somehow they inspired him.

That was me, at that same age.

I'll spare you my life's story, but it had a lot to do with being bullied incessantly all through grade school. My survival strategy, going way back, was just to disconnect from school, to not be fully there. Which leads me to ask, was your son ever bullied, as smart kids often are? Did he have any other experience that really put him off school?

My personal good news is that junior year, at age 16, I suddenly got it all together. I can't say precisely why: maturity just, suddenly, happened. It did help a lot that I did an Outward Bound-type trip, where I really had to be competent -- with real, visible, unmistakable consequences for incompetence -- for the first time in my life. Part of it was that I had this one fantastic, amazing teacher, who somehow managed to truly mentor me, in an inspiring, nonjudgmental way. But part of it was just that I grew up, that I cycled into a steadier, less volatile, late-adolescent stage of brain development.

So, not sure how helpful this is, but there you have it. Somehow, somewhere, your son is going to truly apply his intelligence and make you proud. It just may not be through a conventional path.

I am having this same issue with my son, I will have to read all the suggestions!

I read the article Nervy girl posted and I saw some of myself in it. I was always told how smart I was, and I do think I avoided things I new would be a struggle for me, like sports and advanced math, choosing to stick with things I knew I had natural talent for. I never thought about it like that before, but after reading the article (I am only half way through, I have to finish it yet) I can see it more clearly, and I can see myself doing it to my son. I would definitely read that link if you have not :)

No answer for you, but I can SOOO relate. My 15 yr old son also just came off a spectacular end (almost failing 2 core classes, but pulling them out by the hair of a lamb's chin) to the first semester, and is on day 3 of Honors Chemistry, Honors Spanish 2, Analytic Geometry and a shop class that he seems to enjoy.

He got a phone for Christmas, so I'm kind of hoping THAT can be his currency. We'll see.

Interesting article here, though. :

http://www.mbird.com/2014/01/underachieving-boys-and-the-...

My son is only 11, but showed many of the same signs. We tested him and found out he is slightly add and dyslexic. It wasn't strong enough to be obvious, the tell tell signs weren't there, but it was affecting his work. After 2 1/2 years of work with a tutor, he is doing much, much better. He still is scatter brained, but is learning structure, and isn't so frustrated that he just gives up.

Lol. I was like that when I was in high school. I *barely* graduated by the skin of my teeth. It drove my dad crazy, because no matter how he tried to motivate, discipline, or encourage me to take school more seriously I just wasn't interested.

I joined he military straight out if high school. That was very short-lived (only 9 months, and was unable to re-enlist due to injuries making me ineligible for service.) and when I got back home I did various jobs for a few years.
Now, I have lived in the real-world making minimum wage, so I have a true understanding of why education is so important. I also have a daughter, and I want to be able to provide for her better. So I went back to school. I am starting my 4th semester tomorrow, and have so far maintained a 4.0 GPA. After my first semester, I no longer have to pay for any schooling because my grades bring in enough scholarships to cover tuition and books. I have also been accepted (and received scholarships) to transfer to a more prestigious university once I finish this semester. (Currently attending a community college.) I know that I would not have put nearly the same effort into my work if I had started it straight out of high school.

My uncle actually dropped out of high school. He eventually went back and got his diploma, and started college... But before he earned his diploma he started his own small business and makes bank with what he does.

Then you take my little sister, who almost got straight As through high school. She was on honor society, and went to college straight out of high school.... And proceeded to fail class after class before dropping out during her 3rd semester. She now has a mountain of student debt, and no degree to show for it.

So, don't stress this right now. Encourage him to do hits work, but don't push so hard. He may set himself up for a few hard years, but his high school "career" definitely won't set the course for the rest of his life.