Just have to vent and can't share in real life...so my husband and I have a tense relationship for which we are in counseling where he is willing only to discuss "parenting" and not "marriage." Communication is strained, but we have to manage the logistics of four school-age kids, my second job, sports, family, volunteer work, etc. Our therapist suggested a daily check in late in the evening where we have a brief conversation about schedules, check with each other on tentative plans etc. (to avoid surprises like his family showing up for a cookout without him having informed me that he planned a get-together *at our house*). He "dislikes my tone" and literally won't have a conversation with me (what are we 5?) so, per his request, I send him a weekly e-mail where I outline generally who will be where and when, sort it by day, bold the items he's responsible for, and then add in extra details such as whether or not dinner needs to be fully cooked or if I cooked in advance and he's just warming up, etc. Never mind that we share an on-line calendar that syncs to his phone, and that I maintain a wall calendar at home, and a weekly menu all of which he can check himself...he has ADHD and this list works. I know it works because I've seen him print it out and keep it with him, he can just pull it out of his pocket, check it, make notes etc. Great. It works.
So I sent him an update for this week today and he wrote back that there's no need to include items that he's not responsible for, there is no need for him to know where the kids are unless he has to pick one of them up, and no need for him to know where I am. I replied back that he's free to delete what he finds irrelevant.
Honest to God...I understand that he has trouble focusing but really, take what you get, make it work for you, and move on. And maybe consider, I dunno, saying "thank you" every now and again? I mean really, your spouse spoon feeds you the information you need to keep your life on track and you complain about it? Grrr...I'd let him sink or swim if it didn't mean my kids being stuck at a hockey rink with no ride or eating takeout at 8 PM because he forgot to pick them up or make dinner!
So my question to make this not just a vent...how do you handle the maddening people in your life without tearing your hair out or getting fired up about it?
Thanks ladies...always so good to have a place to vent. I do think we're reaching the end of the line here. Of course I've thought that before, but there was always enough of a breakthrough in the past (or a galvanizing crisis) to bring us back to center and renew our focus on trying to be good partners to each other and good partners to our kids. But these recent months of his refusing to try to repair "us" have just been too much. I actually asked him to move out a couple of weeks ago (after the car loan incident, a prior question) and he refused to do so. I'm not moving out of my house so...here we are. He said he'll go if I can re-fi the house in my name only, which I can't do because we owe more than it's worth. I'm working on some kind of short re-fi or other arrangement to see what our options are. Just praying that some kind of financial miracle works itself out and I can knock this mortgage down to something I can manage solo and then we'll figure out if I've called his bluff or if he really is unwilling to try, for good. I think that if he really wanted to go, he'd just go so who knows.
The really sad thing is that when he's taking medication for ADHD and his mood disorder, it's a whole different life. But I can't force it down his throat so...I think the mental health issues are going to win and we'll just pick up the pieces. Two of my sons have ADHD (and hopefully that's it, hopefully no mood disorders but time will tell) and I just hope they don't end up struggling like he does. It's a crappy way to live, for everyone.
ETA: Happy Mama thanks for the thought, that made me laugh out loud, literally! I'll fit that in between taking a meeting at the office and dropping a kid off at hockey. Actually I'm tutoring an entire hockey team full of elite post-high school players and there are some cuties there...LOL...
Just, wow?
You must be quite the planner, to be able to write up a schedule like that. No WAY would I do that for my husband, vs. just talking to him for a few minutes, and giving him a quick daily verbal update.
You're a saint, what can I say. I would probably just strangle him.
Cheryl B, this is something that she can change. She can change from a married woman to a single woman. I would.
Please tell me that as soon as the kids (or some of them) are out of the house, that you will finally get a divorce, JB?
What you've been going through for the past years isn't getting any better, is it? He's getting worse and the kids see this, don't they? Have you considered getting a counselor for the kids? They don't have a blueprint to what constitutes a healthy marriage as an example for they are supposed to act when they get married. I know you know this. How are you handling it?
My advice to you here, since you have decided not to get divorced at the present, is to do what it takes to shield your children from the nasty aspects of your dysfunctional marriage. They also need to be around married couples who have affection for each other, as often as you can muster it. SOMEONE needs to talk to them about how things are supposed to be. The elephant in the room, their father, needs to be an open discussion with them. A counselor could give you help for this discussion.
It's bad enough that you have this in your life. Please don't facilitate allowing history to repeat itself 4 times over with your kids.
Sending you strength...
How do I handle the maddening people in my life without tearing my hair out or getting fired up about it?
1. I accept them for who they are.
2. I accept them for where they are at.
3. I make sure I hear them and try to give them the love they want rather than seek the love I need.
4. I re-set my expectations.
5. I give myself grace to walk away.
6. I make use of a punching bag.
7. wine can help.
your husband is communicating that he is not that into you. not that into the marriage. not interested in doing more than the bare minimum. he doesn't sound like he is in the right head to be likely, willing or interested in saying thank you.
Best to you and yours,
F. B.
(((JB)))
I have only hugs for you.
I cannot imagine.
Please do not 'see' me as cowardly, but once *I* found myself beating my head against a wall (very different circumstances), I looked into divorce.
Still, not wanting to throw in the proverbial towel, I stayed. Until there was an event involving our children that made divorce the ONLY choice.
Please...do not allow things to go that far.
So, to answer your question, when I saw that I was clearly the ONLY one invested in our marriage...I filed.
(((hugs))) again.
***When only one person is invested, it is like trying to ride a bicycle with only one foot pedaling***
*and yes, I made that up for you because that has to be what it feels like*
You are just venting and not looking for advice, so I will just give you a big hug. You sound like you are running to stand still.
But I will say this. I'm pretty sure my kids would take a happy single mom over extra-curricular activities any day. I am enjoying my kids so much more now that my alcoholic and emotionally abusive husband doesn't live with us any more.
Hang in there! You'll find your way out of the fog!
It sounds like you are a single parent even though you are married.
Tell me something.
After you finish raising the kids and they are grown up and out of the house, what are you going to do with a spouse who's not been engaged with you and the kids for that many years?
You wouldn't be the first to divorce once the nest is empty.
Is it just easier to have his paycheck coming in without dealing with child support and visitation?
It sounds like you are THIS CLOSE (fingers held 2 millimeters apart) to divorcing the bum.
With his aggravation out of your life, you might find life easier.
Just cut back on what ever balls you can't juggle by yourself.
The volunteer work might have to be put on hold for awhile.
You're just venting. Not looking for opinions. Good luck working things out.
Seriously it sounds like you are his mother too.
My resolution was I divorced mine....after a while I got to the point that it didn't make me mad anymore and then I didn't care and then I couldn't stand him. He's my ex.
I've read some other responses now and want to say...sure, she has to accept he's this way to a point but she also gets to decide if, while accepting it, she's ok with dealing with it or if she's done. She didn't sign up to parent an already grown man...she signed up for a marriage.
**I also want to add, I wish someone would organize my life for me the way these men want us to handle theirs BUT we are their significant others and not their mother!
It seems like he honestly doesn't care. When I had the feeling that was how my husband felt, I stopped caring. Honestly...I didn't want to know where he was, when he was coming home, what his weekend plans were. I planned my life and our chidlren's lives and we did what we wanted. When he saw what he was missing by being a good husband and father, things changed. It honestly took a few years for it to sink in 100% but we've been there for a while.
I can tell you though, that if he didn't see what I was doing and didn't realize I was no longer caring, and didn't want to take action, I would have been content in a divorce at that point. That was not what I signed up for.
I hope something changes, but it doesn't seem like right now he wants it to change. And if he didn't, no way I woud live like that. Eggshells and I don't get along very well.
So you don't see it as perhaps passive aggressive to type, which takes you longer, everything you do? I get this is a bit of a pattern for you so you probably don't realize it but what you are typing is do this this and this and by the way look at everything I do that you don't do.
You don't think that is abrasive at all? Just helpful?
Anyone who reads this and says oh wow mean girl. Imagine if your husband sent you an email telling you about all he does all day and acting like the only important thing you do is pick up the kids. Don't you think you would find that irritating?
I get the anger and irritation but you are making things worse and expecting him to thank you for it.
He wants you to refinance the house in YOUR name only? So he basically walks away and you owe everything on it by yourself? Not gonna happen if it were me.
He needs to hear more stuff like you said, that's the calendar and you're not deleting everything off his copy just for him, he is an adult. He should be able to highlight his tasks.
I'd talk to an attorney about the house and what to do about making him move out and getting temporary spousal support and child support.
You are already working a second job and if he pays you the right amount he should end up paying then perhaps you can quit one of your jobs.
It's a bit of a red flag that he does not want to "discuss" marriage.,,,but, at the same time...ADHD and marriage are difficult for many.
-Living with ADHD STINKS. In marriage, it can lead to disengagement and distraction...for starters. Having kids with ADHD is (also) NOT easy. I have been teaching parenting classes---I know. I have seen this first hand.
He is in a habit of doing what he does. He might be overwhelmed and it seems very dysfunctional...and probably is. But, with that being said, he does really need to discuss marriage and how his ADHD is affecting your marriage. Without a good marriage, the strain will only get worse. Therefore, a therapist needs to help him address his ADHD and what he can do help himself and , then, work on improving your relationship.
The blame game is easy...but, his ADHD needs to be addressed.
Also, the kids need to see a positive relationship. A good therapist will be able to help him!
In my opinion, he needs to talk about the marriage in counseling.
If he does not, you might be walking....He needs how to cope w/ his mood swings and to understand how they hurt you.
I agree. Just sounds like a man. Women are generally more detail minded and men see the bigger picture. I have to do most of what you describe and I guess I've just accepted it. Be patient with your marriage, as hard as it is, you know nothing in this life stays the same. You guys should cycle back to a good place. When I was in a similar place, I prayed that God would change ME. Apparently, he did. Wishing you the best...
He probably thinks YOU are his "maddening person" in his life. lol I have ADD so I get overwhelmed easily. I think it was nice of your husband to ask you to only give him Action Items that HE needs to do and he doesn't need to worry about the rest. I think in his head he is thinking it will be less work for you to do that then the full on huge list you're doing for him specifically. I think if you can just do this for him then you will be able to work through the rest. Good luck.
I agree sounds like a man but I also focus on controlling only what I can. I would add though yourschedule would drive me insane too. It's a lot for anyone. Maybe cut out the volunteering and second job? Latter likely isnt possible but at least the volunteering. I get really pissy when my husband over schedules us. Maybe your husband feels that way.
Honestly, inability to focus or not, he just sounds like a man.
I know that's sexist, but it's true.
Whenever I leave my husband in charge of anything, he doesn't want details or instructions or tips, he just wants to know where he needs to be and when. He doesn't care about the rest.
They simply don't operate like we do.
At least in the age of cell/smart phones it's easy for everyone to stay in touch, in case something comes up.
You may also want to take a look at your insane schedule. My BFF has two kids in several activities, and lately it's been putting a lot of stress on her marriage. But she refuses to say "no" to any activity her kids want to do because she feels like they should be busy all the time, that it's healthy. Well sure it's healthy to be busy but when it comes at the price of your marriage and family life it's time to reconsider, set some boundaries and learn how to tell your kids (and yourself) that you can't have/do everything you want.
Balance, balance, balance.
Various ways....
Just gotta say, I tip my hat to ya JB....above and beyond.
I won't be my husbands secretary or mother.
But then again, he wouldn't forget to pick up our kid.
I understand. But I doubt I could deal to that extent!
My response to his comment would have been you do need that info incase something happens and you need to get the kids. What if there is an accident or a road closure etc.
I deal with this kind of thing a lot in my own house.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change." You know he's like this - it's all in acceptance. Once you accept him for who/what he is, your life will be more serene. Accepting it doesn't mean liking or agreeing with it, just accepting that that's the way it is.
How do I handle them? Stay the heck away from them as much as possible because they can suck up all your livelihood. Make an effort to do what it takes to avoid confrontation and drama. It sounds like you do a very good job with keeping him in the loop. That itself is a job. You cannot control his actions, but you can control how you react to him. Make sure you are taking care of yourself both physically and emotionally. Meditation and alone time helps to clear your head and recharge yourself. I hope that you have a good friend, counselor, or relative that you can call up and use as a sounding board.
He has NO REASON TO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU ARE...oh my you could be off having a wild affair....not saying you would even remotely do anything like this, it's just that he is trying to check out despite that he was apparently the donor for creating all of these children. I am not usually like this, but this man needs to be seriously told to grow up. You don't need a counselor to say all of this, just tell him exactly what is written here. He is not being very nice. And counselors cost lots of money. Make him take you on a mini vacation with that money and don't make any more babies.
Maybe you and your husband need to make time to go over the schedule together instead of via emails, messaging, etc. Talk to each other!
(((J.b.)))
I yell a lot :-)
I like fanged bunnies suggestions, especially the wine.
As the parent of a child with ADHD, I tip my hat to you for being married to someone with it! People may joke about ADHD, but it's one serious condition that affects everyone in the family in significant ways.
A big tip for you: Get a subscription to ADDitude magazine. There are a lot of articles in there about being the spouse of someone with ADHD. At the very least, you are likely to relate to the scenarios presented and feel less alone in dealing with the extremes.
Knowing how our son handles his ADHD, I think your husband saying to limit the information is simply because he can't handle too much information. He just wants what he needs to focus on because that alone is a lot. I suspect he didn't want it to come across as he's not interested in your lives.
Also, is your husband on medication? If he's not, that can make life 1,000x more difficult because his brain will keep misfiring and he's going to keep letting you down by forgetting important things.
I wish you the best of luck with everything!
One thing jumps out at me: Is he being treated for his ADHD? I assume you say ADHD because he has an actual medical diagnosis--?? If so, shouldn't he be getting treatment? As in, meds and/or some kind of therapy so he can cope with the ADHD side of things - this is not the same as marriage/parenting counseling or couples therapy. Is any treatment happening?
If yes -- then that's a good thing but it's not enough. If yes -- did someone counsel him to cut back on anything that's not essential, and that's why he wants to say "give me only MY tasks on your list"?
If he's not getting any treatment, then he should take responsibility for getting treatment for his adult ADHD. If he has the diagnosis but has done nothing about it, and especially IF he hides behind it -- as in, "I can't help the way I am! I have ADHD! Just deal with it, I can't change!" -- then he's using it to manipulate you and the situation.
I see why you want everything on the list. It allows you to make just one list for both of you rather than a master list and then his special little list tailored just for him. And more importantly, if something happens (your car breaks down, a kid gets sick and you have to rush to the doctor, whatever) then HE needs to know where the other kids are located at any given time. The fact that he can't understand that, or just assumes you are supposed to juggle everything that comes up even in emergencies -- well, that's pretty telling, isn't it? I guess he expects you'd call and tell him what to do and where to go if something happened out of the ordinary. Lucky him, he has a secretary and it's you!
I know you're venting, but I hope you're telling the counselor all that you are saying here.
The way I handle maddening people is I don't have them in my life or (in the case of my brother whom I love but who is very different from me) I limit the time I'm with them, and the result has been just fine. In your case, it sounds like you have a rather lopsided partnership revolving around logistics, not a marriage.
I hear your frustration but being ADHD means he has difficulty processing too much information. Him requesting that you not send him the things that don't apply directly to him isn't a knock to you. It's the equivalent of a blind spouse asking you to let them know you have rearranged the furniture so they can navigate the house.
Sounds to me like you truly believe that your husband means you ill will.
My interpretation of what's going on here is he's giving up on the relationship and doesn't feel as though he can do any right. Yes he makes tons of mistakes and errors in judgements that are difficult to deal with but I would discover from trained professionals how to best handle him and this without beating him down because your sons are watching. Some things are taught and some things are caught.
men are basically the same.. if I wrote out a big old schedule of the weeks activities.. soccer for K.. dance for J... blah blah..blah.. he would not care or read it..
BUT if I sent a bullet point list... *** pick up K at 6 pm Tuesday at soccer brown park.. .. *** take J to dance Wednesday 8 pm .. make sure to feed kids on Wednesday I work late..
I would skip the details.. and just a quick list of his particular jobs.. not sure that solves all of your problems but if he does what is on the lsit.. that is pretty good.
I used to send emails outlining our next week's plans to hubby so he knew what was coming up but he did ask me to shorten it (no explanations needed which is what I gave him because that is what I WOULD want!). Instead he asked me to bullet point the important and it sounds like that is what your hubby is asking for, too.
On another note, I suggest alcohol, chocolate, girlfriend time, sappy movies that make you cry or reading a book in the hot bath as a manner of relaxation!
