What Do You Think About "Feminism?"

I'm a humanist. That covers everything. I believe in equal rights and opportunities for all.

The word feminist, even if you mean for all, just has FEM in it, which makes it sound lopsided. I like LeanIn's attitude - the opportunity to do the best and be the best at what you CHOOSE, not what you're stuck with taking.

I'm a proud feminist. Feminism has never been about anger or putting down anyone. It's just about equality and freedom. We wouldn't be voting if it weren't for early feminists. Feminists fight for paternity leave in addition to maternity leave. I wrote a paper in college 20-something years ago about pay inequality for women and sadly nothing has changed in that time. Women still have a long way to go to achieve equality.

I 100% support feminist ideals.

ETA: It's ok to call it feminism when women aren't yet treated like equals and we still need to see progress. When things finally even out, then maybe the word can change.

What Diane B and Suz T said. Believe me; you're a feminist. You are just using a very narrow definition of the term "feminist". It's much more than how you've defined it.

Well, I enjoy being able to vote. I enjoy that if I really wanted to, I could run for President. I enjoy making medical decisions for myself. I enjoy being able to choose the profession I belong to, without limitation. I would enjoy being paid the same amount for doing the same work as anyone else in my profession.

So, yeah, that would make me a feminist.

Also, this is not a zero-sum game. There is no need to decrease anyone else's ego in order for me to have autonomy and the same ability as anyone else to pursue my goals.

It really irks me when I see feminism criticized because it makes me think of every woman who fought to be among the first to vote, the first to attend an Ivy league or law school or medical school, first to be a soldier or policewoman, minister etc. etc. I feel devaluing feminism is devaluing their contributions to our lives.

I think that what you associate with the word "feminism" represents a common misunderstanding of the term and its implications. Feminists are not out to hurt men or their egos. Some feminists may be angry and may express anger over the treatment of women (I would argue for good reason) but I don't think that emotion is representative of the movement as a whole. Misandry is not part of the feminist movement, though opponents of feminism try to portray it as such. Feminists recognize that a patriarchal society such as the one in which we live hurts women and men and we seek change for all people, not just for women.

Equality for women does not equal misandry. The idea is not a choice between misandry and misogyny. I wonder what you mean when you use the term "misandry" by the way. I suppose it is possible that we define it very differently.

I am a feminist. I believe that gender is not an acceptable basis for discrimination. I believe that gender is a social construct that serves to keep women "in their place" under the guise of respecting their inherent differences. Those differences, in large part are man-made and I think we would be better off without them. I am married to a wonderful man and I have two young sons. I most certainly do not wish to hurt men or boys. I want my sons to grow up in a society where they are not denied the full range of human experience because they were born male. I want them to be free to choose the partner, occupation, family situation, hobbies and interests that they desire without being shamed for making a choice that is too feminine. I want my boys to grow up respecting women and girls as autonomous individuals who are capable of making choices for themselves. I want them to see women as complete human beings not as a function of their reproductive organs. I want my sons to grow up in a world that cares more about humanity than masculinity or femininity. For these, and many other reasons, I am a feminist.

ETA:
In response to your SWH, I would turn the question around and ask you what is so troubling about the term "feminism"? If you can accept that women's rights are human rights and that in fighting for equality for women we are attempting level the field and to make things better for people all around then why do we have to change the label? The fact that the name is specific to women does not mean that it is exclusive to women. I love when a man is willing to call himself a feminist and back up the assertion with his actions.

Feminism as a movement has been responsible for many of the rights and privileges that women today take for granted. It has made life better for countless women and men since its inception. It is not perfect, but I think that the positive certainly outweighs the negative. I think that it is a sad commentary that women are afraid to identify as feminists, afraid to identify with a movement that could improve their lives because the word has been co-opted by those who would rather women not seek equality.

I think your take is outdated, misguided, and wrong.

Feminism has always been and always will be about empowering women and girls to have equal access to opportunities that men and boys have. Many of us "feminists" have wonderful fathers, husbands, brothers, and sons. It's not about making sure that we're better than men.boys, or hating them, or seeing them as some "enemy" entity. It's about calling attention to the many pockets of gender inequality that still exist in our society and around the world and figuring out ways to right those imbalances of power and opportunity.

It's not about any need to "feel better" about our femininity. Women and girls make up half the population on Earth. Feminism is about recognizing that the half of the human race that was by and large excluded from public discourse and policy, had been considered inferior/incapable and often treated as property for centuries should be held on equal footing with the other half of the population who has enjoyed power, freedom and opportunity.

You should read the book "Half the Sky" if you want a current look at what Feminism is about. The work of feminism is not done, not by a long shot. And getting that work done requires that men and women work together for justice and equality. Don't be afraid of the "F" word, it makes you sound like Rush Limbaugh...

Ditto to Bridgett B and Diane's posts. It saddens me that somehow the word feminist has become so misunderstood that Americans habitually think it means what Rush Limbaugh said it meant all those years ago. I consider myself a feminist and I'm married to a wonderful man and mother to a dear boy whom I hope will grow up fully valuing himself and everyone else around him, regardless of their sex.

Interesting question and thank you for starting it out from a basis of listening to what everyone has to share.

ETA: replying to your SWH... As I recall, it was Rush L who came up with the term 'femi-Nazi' back in the 90s. That's all I was referring to. No need for you to do much research on it, though if you want to fact-check me on that point, feel free!

Eh, I don't really feel the need to compete with men on any level.

After all, I already know it's women who REALLY rule the world.

And frankly, I think men and women were made differently for a damn good reason: Separately we are both sorely lacking in one area or another, but together we complete each other. I mean, one picks up where the other ends.

So, probably I'm not a feminist?

I certainly don't want to seem unappreciative of the brave women in the past who have fought tirelessly for rights that I enjoy today. But regardless, as long as it's US having the babies, we're the ones in charge. In Western cultures, women currently have MORE choices than men. I'm not sure why we keeping needing to hash out who's worth more using a monetary measure.

:)

Diane B I am weeping happy tears.

You explained it perfectly.

I recall my mother working her butt off in a job that had always been a man in that position. My mother was more accurate, more productive and more innovative. Oh and she spoke 2 languages, he had not.

She was a divorced mom with 2 daughters. When my mother asked for a raise, they told her "no, she was being paid the wage that was allotted for her job." She told them "the man that held the position before her was paid more." They said "well he is married and has a family to support."

This is when my mother and the other women that worked for this Federal Agency banded together to change things.

They spoke up, they used facts and figures to show that they were not being treated fairly, much less "equal" to the men that worked the same jobs.

They were fortunate to have a chief of this particular agency that was raised by a widowed mother who had raised him to respect and appreciate women who had to work to support their families.

This is why I embrace equal rights, equal pay for equal work..For Both sexes. And I appreciate the word Feminism. It is not negative to me, it is an empowering word.

C. lee, you are one of my absolutely faveys but i'm agin' ya this time around! with much respect, of course.
:)
there have always been strident bra-burning feminists. i love 'em because to get the pendulum moving, they HAD to be over-the-top. modern women (and feminists) tend to forget that and just disparage the rabble-rousers for being anti-man. but sometimes it takes a big noisy disruptive explosion to burst out of the status quo.
it's very easy to make fun of them now for their ugly man-suits and fish/bicycle slogans. that's because we're resting on their laurels.
i think your much-despised meme has it exactly right. at its heart, feminism is no more than expecting (and demanding, because despite our enormous strides in my lifetime we're not there yet) equality. if you feel women have equal worth, you're a feminist in my book. if you're an angry feminist who really feels that men need to be downtrodden or disrespected, and that women are *better* than men, then you're a feminist whom i don't care for too much. but still a feminist.
and one who doesn't begin to represent 'all' or 'most' feminists.
i don't think feminists shut down discourse. i think nasty people at both ends of the spectrum do. and i'm not about to remove my feminist badge from my vocabulary or my psyche.
most of the women in my social community consider themselves feminists but don't at all match your rather narrow and pejorative definition of feminists. the feminists i know love and respect men.
and at least half of the feminists i know ARE men.
khairete
S.
ETA- diane B FTW!

I think the problem is the term feminism has been co opted by a political party. The definition has been distorted so that if you are not part of that political party you want nothing to do with the term. You can tell who identifies with that political party just reading these comments.

I am a feminist by the definition. I was raised to know i can be anything I want to work to be and I have seen nothing that has stopped me from doing so. My daughters were raised, are being raised to understand the same.

My sons were never raised to feel guilty for being male and that is the huge difference between feminism and what liberals would like to make of it. Male guilt, not so different from white guilt, but it is all nonsense. You can be anything you want to be in this country, saying there is anything structural that holds women back is just a political ploy for votes.

So if you are a moderate or conservative and don't identify with the current idea of feminism, it only means you aren't liberal, it doesn't mean you aren't actually a feminist.

Here's the thing:

There is no such thing as purely real equality. It cannot be attained. People will always have advantages and disadvantages, every person does. It is every individual's job to ascertain what they need to do to be satisfied (overall) with their life.

I'm a humanist. Put all people forward. What I have become tired of is the quick-to-be-offended navel gazing feminists who purport to speak for every woman. I don't WANT to lean in. And if a woman does, guess what? There are a lot of women out there who are doing it and succeeding. I'm not saying that there isn't some sexism endemic to the system, but it also works in reverse too.

How many women get up in arms when we discuss the idea of male early childhood ed workers and caregivers? How many men are routinely discriminated against in some occupational fields because 'only a pervert would want to change diapers"? I've seen comments like this on this very site.

Personally, I also think that we can do better for other women around the world by spending our money on micro-loans for women in third world countries who want to start small businesses in order to feed their families instead of donating money to groups which want to call every misogynistic media figure on the carpet for saying things which they find offensive. Feminism has become a bit of an industry which isn't producing actual change.

Jane Maas's Mad Women is one example of how women make it much harder for each other to do what they want. She was an ad executive in the 50s and 60s and doesn't consider herself a feminist or that her work was forwarding the feminist movement. She just did what she wanted, worked hard, had realistic ideas about 'having it all' and understood that life involves making hard choices sometimes. I think that's where I stand on the issue of feminism. I'm opposed to any sort of sexism, period.

Flying Spaghetti Monster : I Really Rather You Didn't s # 3:

"3. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Judge People For The Way They Look, Or How They Dress, Or The Way They Talk, Or, Well, Just Play Nice, Okay? Oh, And Get This In Your Thick Heads: Woman = Person. Man = Person. Samey = Samey. One Is Not Better Than The Other, Unless We're Talking About Fashion And I'm Sorry, But I Gave That To Women And Some Guys Who Know The Difference Between Teal and Fuchsia. ".

Treating women equally should not be a threat to any male ego.
Somehow I think they feel they'll be lower man on the totem pole if someone/anyone is not beneath them.
If that's what anyone needs to prop themselves up to make them feel superior - I've really got to question their superiority.

The genders should stand together and help each other when they need it.
And no claiming one 'needs protection' as a means of keeping them in a gilded cage.

To be perfectly honest, I haven't heard anyone in my day refer to themselves as a feminist.

When I hear feminist, I think of the activist who stood up to the political views of others, not just men, saying women can do what men can do. It is not limited to the workforce, it includes all sorts of rights that we enjoy today. I drive, I vote, I work, I wear pants (boy do I wear pants), I whistle, I have short hair, and if someone fails to hold the door for me, I can get it myself.

Without zeal (or anger), we wouldn't have those rights today. Could I possibly be a feminist, if I teach my kids not to back down to the thought that girls can't play a particular sport or applying for a job that has a male opponent? I don't teach anger or hate for men, I just teach my children, if they want something to go after it.

What you are describing to me is an evolution of the definition of feminism, which perhaps you suggest has become subjective. In which case, we should always refer back to it's original purpose.

It is 2014, there are men who can't get jobs, women who can, and things have changed. Thankfully it has. What would happen to the family that can't find work because a woman belongs at home. They would go under. It is time to let go of those silly views and live and let live. If women belong at home, then perfect...in your home. If women belong at work...why not, but those are just views.

What I believe the bottom line is that big business has found a way to get the job done by women at a lower wage because women have not moved up the pay scale. While we have come a long way with our rights, we still sit below the ceiling when it comes to pay for a large part.

Finally, what female wouldn't like to see a egotistical male bring it down a notch? At the same time, I know men share some similar feelings about some overbearing women.

I think with any idealogical concept, you're gonna have people that fall all over the bell curve.
It's a word. Shorthand for a concept.
I believe in equal pay for equal work.
If you're good at your work (ability) you'll be more successful from all angles. (Merit)
I believe in equal opportunities for our girls and our boys.

I do not believe there are "male" and "female" abilities. Or "merits."
I think culture takes care of that distinction for us--still.
I don't really think "feminists want to see male egos dropped down a few notches."
I think many women have struggled long and hard to get to today's "equality" and I know there is more work to do.

(Standing and applauding D. B's response)

So, I think I understand what you are getting at but I also know many people who identify as feminist who truely believe in equal rights. Of course, in any group, there are people that misrepresent ideas and damage the overall perception of the group. At the same time, I think it is unfair to say that a specific term should be removed. People can focus on getting equality for a minority group without trying to bring down another group. If you feel passionate about increasing woman's rights, ie equal pay, fair representation in the media ecetera, why not be able to call that what it is. That does not mean that you are taking away from men. I also know men who consider themselves feminists and have fully intact self esteem.

If you can honestly answer "No" to the question "Do you believe in equality?" then I think you really SHOULD reconsider your life choices.

ETA: I wasn't referring specifically to you. I meant a generic "you."

I have no answer to the question, but I applaud the way Fuzzy and you ironed out the misunderstanding of terms without either feeling too big to do so. KUDOS!

I didn't quite understand your post...this line? "That's basically a mandate that those who aren't in line with allowing misandry must, in turn, be misogynists." Huh? People who don't allow misandry are misogynists? I'm a little lost.

But I'll tae a stab at this...

Some feminists are super annoying. Especially the ones that seem to be fighting for the right to wear skimpy clothes and other silly stuff as their main feminist "causes".

There is something about saying you're a feminist that concedes defeat right out of the gate because you're admitting you need to pump up your own gender because it's discriminated against. Which is true, women are discriminated against and mistreated. But the admission can easily come off as bitter or victimy when bantered around by un-savvy feminist types.....

I don't know. I think we should demand fair treatment in our own personal lives and for other women (but not necessarily complete similarity to men in all things). I'm for equal rights for everyone regardless of gender, class, race, etc.

I actually like your take on this subject. Honestly, I hadn't given it much thought.

Your thought was articulate and simply very well said.

I believe that until women's work is valued and respected, women are just playing at a game that devalues family and children.

I like the phrase radical housewife.

I believe in equality. I agree with the ladies below on the definition of feminism, but it seems like the people who usually shove it down our throats are angry and would like to see the masculine ego dropped a few notches.

I have a friend who would define herself as a fierce feminist and would fall in the 'angry' category. She is appalled that I'm a SAHM. She feels women who choose to stay home are pushing feminism back 50 years. She feels I should work to show my children that women contribute to society...blah, blah, blah...

I agree with you and even before I read the post in its entirety , I thought.. I would remove the word feminist and just say human rights... that's in part what I think gay activist did... instead of it being gay rights.. it became human rights... and because we are all human, we can therefore better relate. I agree, the term feminist has had negative connotations attached to it. Additionally, as long as something is "labeled" there will always be distinctions made and therefore lines drawn and people divided... but if you put it in terms that are inclusive such as human.......... then... that is a good start..