21 Year Old with "Low" Standards, Just Moved in with GF

I'd make a housewarming basket, with goodies and kitty toys and introvert stuff like a subscription to Netflix, and make an appointment for a visit (you don't just show up at an introvert's house). Be warm and friendly and maybe you'll see something you didn't before. It sounds like they both have a good life and are happy.

I've noticed how many "successful" friends have siblings who followed very different paths. Enough to remind me parenting only does so much... Kids raised in same way yet very different outcome. So this doesn't seem uncommon. But I don't think talking to him as a sister to not get this girl pregnant is totally overstepping depending on how you do it. I'd be enthusiastic about her but remind him he's so young and if she has a baby, that's it. I didn't really understand the work involved with children till I had my own. So it may seem like all fun to them. I'd just want to do my best to get him to wait on the having children front. Clearly explain and try to show him how his life will no longer be his own if they have a baby. Otherwise he definitely could be much worse :)

It sounds like two borderline anti-social people found happiness with each other and are enjoying each other's company. So they moved into together and have kitties. That really doesn't mean marriage and babies to most people.

But even if they were thinking long term, you said your brother is "elated", that's good, right? You and the rest of the family think he's not living up to his potential and want him to aspire to be (and maybe date) something better. If I was the GF I would avoid that sentiment as well, and it's not difficult to tell when you're not wanted.

He's just 21 and has plenty of time to figure his life out. Hopefully he decides to be a kind, honest, and hard working person, and your family decides that's what's most important anyway.

ETA: I hear Costco is a wonderful place to work too, apparently they treat their employees very well. Did you know the average salary for a GM at Costco is $122K?

I think that if this is his 'worst' option, he's doing okay. In my opinion, after seeing siblings make some horrifying choices, what's going on with your brother-- no one is losing sleep over it. Maybe your mom and dad need to figure out the tuition angle,but he's young and making his first attempt at being an 'adult'. He actually HAS goals, which is a blessing; something to work toward is great.

Some people really aren't cut out for college and making the most of that experience at an earlier age. Time is on his side and he might decide, after the glow and honeymoon are over, that he wants more from life. Or he might decide that this is a great fit.

I've seen the worst of what 'sibling going down the tubes' looks like. This isn't it.

Everyone has their own version of "success".

My example: I'm a 27 year old wife and mother. Been married 4 years. My daughters are 2 1/2 and 3 1/2. In March I'll graduate with a Bachelor's Degree in Complementary and Alternative Health. After which I will be attending massage therapy school. Plus, I'm writing s book and plan to be a part-time novelist.

Then there is my husband. He has a class A CDL. He has been driving dump trucks for 2 1/2 years. Soon he'll be going to heavy equipment school. Heavy equipment operators earn 30-40 an hour easy.

Once we're both done with school we're planning to build a log home.

Sounds ambitious and success-driven, right?

Would you believe that hardly anyone we know feels like we're making the "right" choices?

It's all a matter of perspective.

Well, he is 21 years old. If you mother is concerned about paying his tuition, then she should tell him to be done by x time and then cut him off. Otherwise, it is his life.

My husbands family has always come across as doing well. He and his brother seemed to have everything they wanted growing up.

His brother chooses to live in a very small town of 24,000 people where it is better known for its brothels. It doesn't fit my husband or the rest of his family, but his brother is very happy there and has lived there for about 15 years now. There is no college there, they just built their first hospital, and they did not have telephone service until the 1960's.

If your brother is happy with a girlfriend and a couple of cats, leave him be.

He has to find his own way and in his own time. No amount of worrying from you or your mom is going to change that.

When I was 21 I didn't know what I wanted to do. I did earn my bachelor's degree, but I was not sure I would stay in that field. It took me a few years after I graduated before I found something I loved ... and now I work in a completely different field. But I love my current job, as well.

He will find his way. He may decide to stick with his current plan and be perfectly happy. He may decide that this is not what he wants and begin to really want to earn a bachelor's degree. I teach at a university, and there are plenty of non-traditional students. Some never had the opportunity to go to college. Others realized later in life just how hard it can be to find a good job without a degree. Either way, they are going to finish college.

The best thing you can do for him is to just be there for him. He'll find his way in his own time.

You really see owning cats as a serious commitment?

I really don't know what to think of this question because it is your first. Your parents are paying for his college even though he probably makes low enough to get grants, Costco has tons! of scholarship programs. Costco is an amazing employer who always promotes from within if possible.

Your brother is in a good position so what exactly is the lifestyle you were raised in? Just because he is finding a different path doesn't mean he won't be successful.

oh, so hard!
yes, the right thing to do IS to let him floof along and balls things up and figure out how to get on course. at 21 there's not much else you can do.
but so, so hard. geez, i hope babies don't come. it doesn't bode well for the cats either.
but! at least he IS working, and flirting with getting at least an associate's degree. we hear worse stories here all the time, don't we?
your parents should quit paying for it, though.
i hope he bucks up soon.
khairete
S. (who also agonizes over brothers, and sons)

Why is this your problem?

As long as he is mentally competent, your brother is a grown man, making his own decisions. It really is none of your concern and (imho) you are close to crossing boundaries.

I would also ask myself why I feel the need to carry the banner for my parents and their issues. If your parents let him and his girlfriend stomp their boundaries (and it sounds like they did) then that's your parents' problem. If your parents are not happy with his pace in college they can withdraw their financial support. Adults are not entitled to be supported by other adults.

I would back off and make sure that I am not somehow getting a "charge" out of this whole situation - i.e., feeling superior, like the golden child of my family, etc. I'm not saying that you're doing that but I would ask myself why this issue is even on my radar.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. I have learned some of these lessons the hard way. Unless you have been declared a guardian by a court of law you are not responsible in any way for your adult sibling. Every second you spend worrying about him is time that you're not spending on your own family and issues. I'm not saying to be cold or uncaring; I'm just suggesting that you let him live his own life on his own terms. I would not offer up any advice unless he specifically asks for it. I would ask my parents to stop triangulating me in their worry for him and the stuff they do for him. That's all on them.

Good luck.

The hardest part of loving someone is watching them make what you think are bad choices. I think this is where you struggle with your brother. You see him as someone who could achieve so much more but he's settling for lesser things. I've watched boyfriends and girlfriends come and go with my own kids and said prayers that my kids would open their eyes and see what I was seeing.

Please open your heart to this girlfriend because believe me she already knows that you think she's below your standards. The more welcoming you are the more your brother will be able to make good choices and share feeling when things aren't going well.

M., I get where you're coming from! My brother lives a very different lifestyle from me or from what my mother wanted for him (it's a totally different situation from yours so I won't go into details). What I can offer is that you need to accept that he's an adult -- hard to do, I know, when he's only 21 and seems unformed, hasn't had the milestone of any kind of degree, etc. The things that bother you would bother me too, and you have a right to the way you feel about it.

But remember that energy you expend on worrying about his GF, his job, etc. is energy you need to expend on your own life and on dealing with the very, very few aspects of this situation that you CAN deal with.

One aspect is ensuring that your parents don't drain their finances paying and paying for eternal tuition for him (they need to give him a deadline and then cut off tuition - he's got a job, he's able to live on his own, so it's time to turn off the tuition money) and they are surely at or close to retirement and need to be ready for that. Again, your parents are adults making their own decisions, but in your place I'd talk to mom and dad about their finances, in the shape of "How are you doing in your prep for retirement?" and let the issue of a tuition deadline come up as part of that. You do not want to be seen as stamping in demanding that "You need to cut him off because he failed to live up to our standards." Just focus on mom and dad's overall finances (which is a good idea anyway) and ensure that they consider that he is now independent.

The other thing you can help with here is staying open to discussion and plain old sisterly interest with him. He is in the happy throes of a new place, a new-ish relationship and a junk food coma, so don't try to fight those things or you come off as the bossy big sister. Instead, see him regularly and be genuinely open to asking him about what he really does at work; what he likes about his job; whether he's pursuing any hobbies outside work and time with the GF (it would be good if he has something in his life besides work and GF). But just ask, and listen, and when it's right, offer ideas like, "Does Costco have a management track program where employees like you can let the company know you want to be lined up for jobs that eventually lead to management?" (And...he may need a degree for that, which you can bring up IF and when he's ready to hear it.)

I would try to get together with him sometimes without the GF around since you don't seem close to her; it's hard to talk to our siblings when they have a significant other always around -- I know! But also be sure to ask about her, take some interest in her (yes, even though she took little interest in your parents) and make a point to include her in an invitation at times. She may have more to offer than you know, or at least he may be glad you are making an effort. You don't have to cozy up to her as you new BFF but he will note it and remember it if you are just cordial and inclusive.

Well truthfully my children didn't land in the lifestyle I intended for them...all the years I whispered 'be a doctor' while they were sleeping didn't mean anything. My one son ran off to the service, then eventually met a girl who he had the nerve to actually marry-we were all horrified (and they adopted a dog) and he moved far,far away. He is very intelligent, but foolish about girls. It looked like she was marrying him for his money he saved from the service. He is almost thirty and lives in a room of a home with her but has a degree that could push him into a megabucks job. But seriously, when I recently saw them together and she told me how much she loved him then I thought isn't that what I want for my son? I looked at them in church and they were holding hands.
Next is my other son who is in his possible sixth year of community college (so whose counting?) and he is living with us. And just got a part time job. I had aspirations for him too. But it turned out, without my approval he acquired a depression condition and has battled this for a long time. But for the most part he is happy.
I think you certainly can sit and think all you want as I do about how disappointing what we wished for them to be.But I also know this, I am in neither of my children's shoes, but tripped in my own for quite awhile and still am. Happiness comes and goes as you know and he -your brother may be feeling profound happiness right now but find later it isn't right for him. Many people have tripped up on partners, pets -but seldom do I hear people curse the fact that they had children. They may curse how difficult it is and some people may disappear because they aren't mature enough or can't provide, but it is not up to me or you to decide what aspirations others should have. Sadly we can only stand by and watch sometimes in our own deep emotional pain.

Awwww! This post is sweet and it must be very hard to deal with this when you love your brother.

Unfortunately, for many young people (myself included at that age!!!) A romantic relationship becomes way too important. Perhaps (I only said PERHAPS) because we're so sexually repressed and private in this country that all kids want to do as soon as they possibly can is get hopelessly emotionally attached to someone they're having sex with.

I used to live in Europe where people are much more frank and open about sex from much earlier ages, and they're so much less messed up later on about sexual relationships, and they have less pregnancies and all that...It's like, people want to take their first step of "independence" here by having a regular sexual partner and playing house because it's so hard to wait for the perfect soul mate to show up "to marry" and it's so hard to pay bills, have friends, go to school, work...there's all this financial trouble, and the "significant other" seems like the best thing going on at the time.

Granted, if all the girl did was retreat into your brother's room and she's not giving, helpful and considerate when people are extending her a favor like a place to live, then, she's probably not a fantastic person. For a while I was living in a guest house behind the parent's house of my no good ex boyfriend from a million years ago. I worked like a slave to fix up that guest house AND help them with their own house work, pets, shopping AND I PAID RENT and worked....cuz I was dumb and thought my "adult relationship" was really great.

So anyway, back to your brother. Aside from the fact that she may not be a regal catch. All the other stuff is his choice too. Like being with her, eating junk food, adopting cats, etc... If he wants to manage a Costco, and he works at a Costco, then he's on the right track there at least.

Moving in with a girl and adopting cats is NOT a huge life commitment. I don't mean to sound like a cheap person with no morals, but everyone does it. At least tons and tons of people do it. I did it and I came from the MOST CHRISTIAN of proper households. All my friends did it. Live-in boyfriends and girlfriends come and go and cats get batted around like toys. I can't count how many times friends and friends of friends were trying to negotiate where to place cats when people broke up. It's like a classic cliche joke: What to do with cats after break-ups.

Ideally, he'd have higher standards right out of the gate for school and career. But you guys can't make him. At 21 though, your parents would be fine to stop paying for his school. He can always go back one day when/if he is more serious about life. Not everyone has solid goals in their early 20's.

You're right, a pregnancy could happen any minute, and then your brother will be REALLY tied down, but he's an adult and he'll have to navigate that. He'll work hard enough to support his kids if he's a good guy. They may even help him mature. Lots of people have kids young and make it work even if their relationships dissolve later.

I dumped several bad guys in my 20's and worked and saved to move to NYC and eventually started my own company, got married, now I'm a divorced mom of three in rural PA with a great life and lots of projects going on....my brother drove my parents crazy by never getting "serious" and he never married and still teaches kiteboarding in Florida. He just likes to party. And both of us were raised with very strong work ethics etc. being told we should "Not have sex until marriage, go to college, NEVER live with someone, get a good job, blah blah" You just never know what people will do.

Anyway, your brother has to learn his own lessons and live his own life. You guys have to let him. Any interference or support at this point only enables resentment and dependency. He's too old to have people monitoring his weight and choices. Let him go! Love him unconditionally. He'll come around. Or work things out somehow.

He's 21, old enough to make his own decisions about where and with whom to live. He's also old enough to pay his own way, so your parents need to cut off the tuition.

Yes, this is who he is and quit worrying about it.

As his sister, keep being his friend and give him minimal advice where appropriate. That's the best you can do for him at this point in time.

Did anyone think that maybe the girlfriend is shy and felt awkward in the house?

Yes, I have had to adjust to my children being different than I anticipated/desired. It wasn't bad, mind you, just different than my visions. I think our visions for our kids are pretty grandiose, most of the time.

Worry isn't useful, if he's happy, then maybe this is the kind of life he was meant to have. It's not the worst thing in the world to marry and have kids young and work at Costco. Maybe he will work his way up to manager. He might have a really happy life that way.

Most of us don't end up being millionaires, changing the world, or going down in history. It's his life.

Your parents can stop paying for college tuition if they feel like it.

Back off. And re. the staying at the parents place, if they didn't like her because of her family (which isn't fair to her AT ALL), she probably didn't feel comfortable around/about them. So it was a negative cycle all around.

Don't be judgemental. If he asks, talk about generalities about women/living together, etc., and not his specific situation unless he asks directly.

I sometimes wonder who raised my daughter because we are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. I tried to teach her to be responsible and productive; she is the least responsible, non-productive person I have ever met. She is just like her father, who, by the way, she NEVER lived with. This is how I've come to know that behaviors and attitudes can be inherited, and are not always learned. I have very little contact with her because I just get so darned frustrated. We used to argue constantly until I just resigned myself to this is who she is; she is not me and doesn't want to be; I have no control over her or what she does and have learned tolerance and acceptance. That's the key in these situations - tolerance and acceptance.

It's very painful to see someone who has different aspirations or "standards" as you. The issue is, does your brother have any desire to actually work to achieve his aspirations? I don't think you gain much by being overly critical of a sibling's choices, so the fact that you and your mother were very kind is a good sign.

Your parents have to stop paying for things. That's the main problem with enabling behavior. I don't know what their agreement was with him regarding tuition, but they should not pay for someone who keeps dropping out. If he attends class (even on a part time basis) and completes the courses (vs. dropping out and just wasting money for something that earns him no credit) and they want to continue to help, great. If he changes areas of specialty, that's not necessarily bad, unless he winds up having no credits that are applicable to more than one major. Does that make sense? He can explore more than one area of study, but the courses he takes should not be "wasted" because he switches majors every 10 minutes.

If he is an adult, your parents' job is over. They raised him, for better or worse, to be able to live on his own. If they weren't so good at it, or if he rejected their values, he's 21 and they had their chance. Hopefully he has some practical skills (budgeting, cooking his own meals, doing laundry, and so on) and hopefully he had some sex education and knows how to prevent pregnancy.

But they don't have to continue to subsidize him. If he's paying rent and utilities, in whatever arrangement he has with his girlfriend, fine. If he gets behind in the rent and gets evicted, if she gets pregnant and they have babies, so be it. It might not be your choice (or mine) but it's out of your hands. But these 2 need to stand on their own 2 feet. If she lacks social skills and hid in his room when they lived with your parents, that's too bad but it's the way it goes.

However, your parents should draw a line in the sand and decide right now that they are NOT inviting these 2 back into their house, they are not subsidizing their grocery bills, they are not caring for any babies, etc.

I think the way to start is for you all to tell him you are proud of him for his positive moments - you're happy he's found someone to care about, you're glad he likes his job (and Costco is getting outstanding national press for its employee policies and wages), and you are proud of him for being out on his own and being a responsible member of society. You can advise him of low cost techniques (utility monthly budget plans, for example) but be judicious in this. Your parents should invite him and his girlfriend for dinner once a month just to be friendly and get to know her but not be any pushier than that. Get to know her - maybe she can develop some social skills if she sees good modeling and feels welcomed, and if you show interest in her. Maybe she can overcome her shyness or the effects of a dysfunctional family with warmth and support from you all. If she doesn't come, fine - welcome your brother and ask how she is, be interested. If they have some extra household items that he can use, great. But they don't lecture, don't subsidize, don't criticize.

If he is successful, wonderful. If he fails, he needs to have family he can talk with. The less judgmental everyone is, the more he will be willing to abandon this relationship if it turns out to be negative. But he's more likely to dig in to prove you all wrong and maintain a bad relationship rather than disappoint you all.

First, the gf. You said her family is 'dysfunctional'. Not her fault, but she's probably a little off because of it. She sounds like a total insecure hermit, not a b****. Easy on that one.

I'm going to go off on this again (I said it in another post reply): this generation of youngsters (ages 18-24) have no aspirations in life beyond what is within their comfort zone. This isn't the generation of leaders or diplomats or even 9-5ers. This generation suffers from more mental illnesses than any generation before them. They aren't prepared to be adults or even want to be adults. It's like they're burnt out on life after chasing so many red bulls and Justin Bieber songs.

Bottom line, he doesn't want to rise in this social hierarchy like you do/have. He's content for now. Be there when he changes his mind.