2Yr. Old Not Listening and We're Running Out of Ideas

Kate made some great comments and in that vein you might like the information presented at www.handinhandparenting.org

C.

Hi,

Kids are supposed to test - it is how they learn and grow and develop. Kind of a pain tho sometimes, I will admit! :) However, consistency is imperative at all ages of childhood.

I am a Lactation Consultant and have a degree in Child Development as well as have been a parent for 24 yrs. I screwed a lot of things up with my first son (who is 9 yrs older than my second) because I tried to be nice all the time, didn't know how to be consistent (due to how I was raised) and really it was a mess. With my last 2 kids I found a book called 1-2-3 Magic by Thomas Phelan. Great book! It taught me to be consistent, stop threatening, negotiating, yelling, etc. No spanking, no voice raising - just clear and simple statements to the kids who very quickly learned that mommy didn't yell anymore, but when she said "3" she followed through with whatever reasonable consequence she said she was going to use if they didn't stop whatever behavior they were doing. In less than 2 weeks (since I only have them 1/2 time - shared custody) we were a happy family with two little boys who went from being out of control and horrible to live with (MY FAULT) to great kids who listened and felt respected, and I felt great because I was a much better parent!

That all started about 6 yrs ago - we still have a great relationship, they are great kids, I rarely have any problems with them and when I do, they are so minor! I love it! I recommend the book to ALL my parents especially those with Toddlers...

Give it a read - it's a good thing...

Good luck!

Warmly,
J. Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM, MOM

I don't think it's possible to give your daughter too much attention, but it is possible that you're trying too hard to make your time together special and fun. The sad fact is that during the week you are not getting her at her best (just awake in the morning, rushing to leave, home in the evening, she's tired and spent). Adjust your expectations a little and realize that you are not failing to Make Happy Memories, she's 2 and can only behave so much.

That being said I think that in terms of choosing your battles and how to deal with them: think about your core values and what you want your interactions to be, even later on down the road. It may help you to focus to see that giving in a little on one or two things (say, what she wears or when the toys get put away) but you stick to a calm routine on others that really truly matter to you. Catch yourself sometimes and ask "am I saying no simply because I need to be in control, or does this really matter to me?" Part of it too is letting her have her emotional reaction but don't let it get you or change your aims. Need her in bed by 7:30, but she always pitches a fit and drags it out for 30 minutes? then start earlier, knowing she will be upset -- you can't make her not be upset, you can't control her emotions, but let her have the feelings, as long as she's not creating physical harm, but continue on the path you need to be. Remember that she has big feelings she doesn't know what to do with, so perhaps now would be a good time to start talking to her about good ways of coping with emotions. Count to 10, deep breaths, punch a pillow, have a little yelling fit in her room with the door closed. Make sure she's knows it's OK to be upset about something, start teaching her ways to deal with it.

Don't argue with a two year old. She doesn't need a "say" in what's going to happen-- not until she's much, much older! Don't try to "reason" with her. Two year olds are not capable of "reasoning." And time out doesn't work at this age. If you can't distract her, just tell her what's going to happen and make it happen. Don't feel guilty about making her do what you need her to do, or about working as many hours as you need to work. Your special fun time with her will seem longer and more fun when you're not wasting it trying to convince her to cooperate.

i just wanted to add a comment that your phrase "threatening to take things away" caught my eye, because it implies you've only threatened and not actually taken anything away? doing what you say you are going to do is CRUCIAL to good disciplining and maintaining some authority over your child. if you give a threat ("no cartoons tonight if..." "no treat today if...") then you MUST carry it through so that your daughter can learn that you walk your talk! there is security in that for the little ones, it isn't mean :) hang in there, mama! XXXOOO

Hello A.: I was just talking about this topic with my son in law the other day- he wanted to know why his home was being run by the children and not the parents yet when they come to my home it's different. They are good parents just like you and the differance I can see is only this: I have set boundries cast in stone that even the littlest child understands. If they have a tantrum they must do it in the guest room - noone wants to be apart of it. I don't yell I snap my fingers and they will all stop and see what I need. I whisper in their ears so they have to pay attention to instructions, or hear how much they mean to me and of my love for them. I have set rules about television, outside play and picking up toys after they are done playing. One 8 yo grandchild made me laugh when she had to pay the price of not picking up the things she had been playing with-- she didn't get to do it the next 3 times she was here.. smile... she said Dad, Nana just doesn't forget ever!
I have raised 5 children of our own and several others. 2 year olds are at a time of exploring and testing the boundries. Talk with her day care provider and see what works there and then do it for home. Remeber that she has 2 sets of rules and values to follow the day care and the home & if your are full time she spends alot of hours at the day care. Just because you work and have to leave your child does not mean that you should feel guilt about it. Have things organized for easy clean up and play together time. At 2 the child wants to know the parents values, standards and that they are loved not much else matters. Set it up now that you are the parent and not the friend or buddy and you will have it easier when the child is 16! You are in for the adventure of a lifetime and it is all worth it when you see them as adults and doing well. Good Luck, Nana G

A.,

I agree with what all the other parents have said but would add one more thought.

My son is the same age and has been doing the same thing and I am home full time with him so I would not assume she is testing because you are away from one another during the day. That being said, she is not receiving discipline from you as much as her daytime caregiver so you might want to at least ask that person how they are handling problem behavior so there will be consistency.

Also, when my son has repeated a bad behavior over and over and refuses to listen I let him know he is going to loose somthing that he loves. He likes to watch a cartoon while I am making dinner. He was being difficult and I gave him three chances and then I told him no T.V. ans I stuck to it and it really worked. He was sad and wined and cried but then understood that the behavior was going to cause him to lose somthing he loved and it really helped.

Good luck and hang in there...i think this is why the call it the terrrible twos!

It sounds like you feel a little guilty for both working full time and so indulge your DD a bit to ease your guilt. I bet your DD has picked up on the guilt and she is riding it like a magic carpet. Very young children have a great sixth sense and they haven't yet learned to ignore it! So, I say pick one of your discipline tools and stick to it. I also would not give her the "option" of making a choice - for now she needs to learn that you are the boss and what you say goes and that you are not going to negotiate with her. If you keep negotiating with her, you will find your life has become one big, long negotiation. Also, you said you tried "threatening" to take things away, but not that you actually took anything. If you threatened it and then didn't do it, you taught her that what you say is not to be believed which set you back several steps. Again, pick one disciplinary tool, stick with it and quit feeling guilty and giving in to her because you're gone all day. you will find that the harder you work to make her happy, the harder she will force you to work!

A.,
I agree w/ the other moms who have posted and want to add another idea. It sounds like your daughter's bad behavior gets a lot of attention, which is understandable because there are certain behaviors that you just cannot ignore (dangerous, etc.). At the same time, it is really important to praise and reward your child (with attention) for good behavior. A few years back, I read that parents should praise kids five times for every critical comment. I'm guessing that you are not giving your child too much attention but are perhaps giving too much attention to negative behaviors and not enough to positive ones. It takes some work, but remembering to acknowledge the good behaviors we take for granted, e.g.,eating without throwing food on the floor. Five minutes into the meal you can say, "I really like how you are eating today! Thank you for keeping your food off the floor!" It's just stuff like that. When your daughter realizes that her good behavior gets more attention than her bad behavior, you will probably see a shift. Also, I so agree that empty threats are the kiss of disciplinary death. Even if you are following through, I learned the hard way that using threats teaches our children to use threats. There is a wonderful parent educator in Marin (sometimes does workshops in SF, too) who teaches how to speak to (and listen to!) our kids effectively. Her name is Julie King. Just so you know, I have no ties to her or her business. I'm just a happy customer. She won't fix all of your parenting concerns, but she does provide excellent insight into why most typical approaches to discipline don't work (but she does not advocate being permissive -- no worries). She also provides great tools for effective communication with kids of all ages. After her workshop, my relationship with my son (I think he was four) improved dramatically. Here is the URL for her website: http://www.julieking.org/upcoming.htm
I hope this helps!

Hi A.-
I think if you get down on her level and talk to her- she cannot leave until she reiterates your wishes and makes eye contact with you while you are speaking to her. I also think that at this age, she is just starting to learn about discipline and there is a reason it is called the terrible 2's. Everything is tested, everything is drama, and tantrums are the mode of things. Sigh. I encourage you to reiterate your disciplines, follow through without giving in, and just- well- dig your heels in, keep your head down, and push through it. Your daughter is probably a very spirited and wonderful girl who just needs a very firm set of boundaries to bloom.
Another thought would also be to ask her day care provider how they keep her on the right track.
Stay strong and good luck! You are doing the right things with her.

Hi A.,

With all due respect,If you feel your home is being run by a two year old, well then it is. Young children should not be making any decisions. Making decisions comes with maturity, and two year olds don't have any. You can't expect a young child to make wise decisions anyway. Sure, it seems like it's not a big deal when it's choosing between pizza or potstickers for dinner, but giving them the feeling that they have a right to call ANY shots will become a habit and it sends the wrong message. The message you want to send is that there is only one boss in the house, the parent, and the child's job is to obey. When young kids call the shots, as they get older they will want to continue to call more shots, and it won't just be over dinner selections anymore. Get a child used to being able to pick his own clothing, and then try to lay down the law when your 11 yr old girl demands to wear hoop earrings and hoochie clothes or your 10 yr old boy comes home with a spike haircut, and an earring in his nose. It's an all out war, if you choose to stand up to them, and they won't relent. They've had 10 years of calling the shots and they sure arn't going to take the back seat now.
Get a child used to getting their own desires at dinner time, and watch the child grow into a child that won't eat veggies and fruit, or will turn up thier nose at practically everything you attempt to make. They become very picky. I've seen homes where the parent will make a different meal for each kid, at every sitting. These homes are filled with frantic and frazzled moms that jump through hoops for whiney unapreciative kids who bicker, argue and fight, and seem to be never happy with the blessings they get. (sorry to say but this is my freind's household). ugh!

You will bless yourself and your children by putting away the passive parenting and taking the lead role. Lay down the law and stick to it. Do the dinner selection option for them on their birthdays only. Pick out their clothes. You limit thier tv viewing time-and you choose the programs. Enforce good eating habits, including vegetables. Do not tolerate disrepect. And when you become the leader, you must insist on full obedience to your rules, commands and requests , or else your leadership means nothing.
For a peaceful, blessed home with lovely, respectful children, here is a book to point you in the right direction:
"Shepherding a Child's Heart" by Ted Tripp.

Good luck,
Gail

Working FT makes it hard to have any control of the environment your daughter sees while youre at work. I was always a sahm and this last baby I had no choice but go back to work and what he witnessed was a lot of bad behaviour and regression by other kids. That MIGHT be part of the problem. If so, I would just spend as much one on one time cuddling, reading, and just giving her all the attention possible.

The other problem is that SHE is not the boss & she needs boundaries. She will respect what you follow through with. Put her in her crib/or in her room and dont allow her out when she does something wrong. ie. Hitting, screaming, temper tantrums, throwing things etc. Wait a couple minutes (or for her to stop crying) ask her if she is going to be nice...if so she can come out. If not...let her stay in there until she agrees to be good and listen to Mommy. As long as she is in a safe place like a crib or a room with a couple gates that you can see through but she cant get out of because you are the boss, it will be ok. But by ALL means, follow through every time or you will have a LONG road ahead mama.

Best of Luck to you!

A.,
There is no such thing as 'too much' attention. And I am glad if you think your daughter can be a boss at home. she must feel safe, secure,and comfortable around you to have have her say. And she is not testing you. She is testing herself. At age 2, kids' brain is not fully developed to cope with frustration. All they have is their needs and want them met NOW. They get frustrated when they don't get their way. If we grown ups expect them to undertstand our point of view then we must also see things from their point of view. When we use words such as power struggle, manipulation, tantrum, defiance to label a child, that child does not even know the meaning of these words.

When a child displays a certain behavior that we don't approve of, all a child is doing is expressing his/her feelings and needs in the way best known to a child at that age. And, all we need to do is respect, acknowledge, and validate those feelings and point out the choices they can have to meet their needs. Time outs, punishments, withholding toys, and even rewards are humiliating and do not truly teach a child the correct behavior. These may bring quick compliance but negatively affect their self-esteem and hamper their ability to excercise independent judgement to make a right choice or even make a mistake. I belive as parents our goal is to raise a happy, self loving and confident child not just a compliant child who always have to look up to others to feel good about him/her and get validation.

From age 2-5 (at any age really), quick redirection to another activity and using sense of humor to diffuse a situation work better. I have gathered these ideas from the following and many more positive discipline books(can't remember titles) that my now 5 yr old son have been reading together at bed time since age 2 to come up with ideas that are acceptable to him and me:

1) How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish
2) Raising your spirited child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka
3) How to negotiate with kids by Scott B(?)
4) Becoming the parent you want to be by Laura (?)
5) How to say it to your kids
6) Punished by Rewards

Best,
-Rachna

Great book that really helped me - "Setting Limits with Your Strong Willed Child" by Robert MacKenzie. Hope that helps you too.

I tried all that stuff with my daughter too and nothing ever worked.. it was like if I were to threaten her she would have to go ahead and do that bad thing again to make sure I followed through. Here is the shortened version of what I did:

I told my daughter that if she didn't stay in bed after bedtime that she would have to eat a greenbean (she hates them)... she tested it twice and I made her put one in her mouth each time... she didn't get up after that. Then I told my daycare about it and she tested it too... telling her that if she went poop in her pullup at nap time that she would have to eat a greenbean... an hour after lunchtime she went and pooped in the potty and said "No greenbeans! I pooped in the potty!"

So I would find something that she like the taste of and tell her that if she doesn't do ... then she will have to have ... But be sure not to overuse it or the "weapon" might lose it's power. But at least then you will have sometimes that things are done your way.

Good Luck and let me know if it works.

There is a great book that I found when my daughter was little (unfortunately I wish I had known about it when she was 2!). The book is called Raising Your Spirited Child. There are great stories and good techniques in there as I remember.

Also, one other thing that you said in your post caught my attention. You said you've threatened to take things away. You need to follow through on the threats and actually take something away.

The good news is that spirited kids make great adults - it can just be trying getting to that point.

J. F.

All good suggestions provided here. You also might want to check out the Happiest Toddler on the Block by Dr. Harvey Karp. He teaches you how to think like a toddler and learn to communicate using their langugage and to discipline according to their age. I have read it and found it to be very effective with my 19-month old son.

From experiences with my now 20 yr old and watching the neighbors with their daughter who is now 7 yrs old you need to get this under control now or she will be running your house. you need to follow through in taking away things and you need to be firm and consistent and not give in to her whining, crying or whatever, you need to show her you are the boss and she needs to do what you say or these are the consequences. and it might be hard at 1st but you have to be firm. Not much more to say then that, she needs to mind you, you need to give punishments accordingly and follow through and not give in. if she can get it now that you mean what you say, it will be so much easier when she gets old, if you dont get it under control now her teen years will be hell for you.

Kate has some great words of wisdom, and we use a lot of the methods she described with our now three year old. He experiences 'terrible twos' right before each birthday. It is his way of testing us, and pushing us to our max. Sure we have other 'bad' days, but the monthe before his birthdays seem to be the worst.
One of the things my husband and I do is be consistent. I understand that it doesn't seem to phase her after the first time, but pick one form of punishment and stick to it. We chose putting our son in our room, and have him come out when he is ready to apologize. At first, it didn't seem to be working, but once he realized that this would happen everytime when he didn't do something or did something bad, the times that he acted out were less and less. He didn't want to miss out on the fun times his dad and I were having. There is no such thing as too much attention at age 2. My husband and I try to make a special time each week where we do something fun and different...trying to expose our son to different things all the time. You just have to figure out what is important to you and what really isn't worth it. So just hang in there, be consistent, and she will come around. Stand your ground too!

Dear A.,
I know you said you tried time outs in your request but please try 1-2-3 Magic by Thomas W. Phelan. It was awarded the National Parenting Publication Gold Award. And I can honestly say it works!! I have a 3 1/2 yr old and tantrums are his hobby. It is also aimed at teachers w/ difficult students.
The key is no emotion no talking (they call it engaging) while you count and at 3 it is time out (a minute for each year of the kids age) and it WORKS!! It covers all the possibilities and it was a life saver for hubby and me!
Hope you check it out! Good luck!