5 Year Old Demon Child

"Please don't email me yelling for me about my opinion, because it's MY OPINION, and you do not have to agree with me."

It is really sad that anyone would email someone to yell at them. It is really sad that you would even have to say that on a site where mothers should be supporting one another...Not being bossy or tearing others down. I really hope that no one emailed you in that manner!

I HAVE HEARD OF CHILDREN DOING THIS WHEN CERTAIN CHEMICALS WERE USED IN THE HOME TO CLEAN THE HOME. FOR EXAMPLE, LYSOL, 409 ETC. THESE ARE ALL TOXIC AND INTERFERE WITH THE NERVOUS SYSTEM. I ALSO HEAR THAT SUGARS , SODAS, CANDY, ETC. CAN HAVE THE SAME EFFECT ON KIDS. I WOULD BE GLAD TO TELL YOU WHERE TO GET SAFER NON TOXIC CLEANING SUPPLIES, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO EMAIL ME: ____@____.com THIS HELPS!

S.,

Can you put him in a camp this summer so you get a break from him?

Recently I was reading about children behaving horribly and even telling parents that they hate them. The cause was that the children were not having their needs met in one way or another. Is he getting adequate outside / exercise time to help eliminate the energy he has for the tantrums?

Do you have friends or relatives close by who can keep this child so you can get a mental break and be ready to focus on solving the problem?

I hope you find a solution. If you need to chat, let me know. Staying at home can be rewarding, but when children seemingly behave unappreciatively it can be a real drawback.

One of the best parenting books I have read is "How to Behave so your Preschooler will Too" by Sal Severe. You might also consider a behavioral psychologist or counselor who might be able to give you an objective view about what is going on in the family. One of my initial thoughts is that he needs more immediate rewards.. not waiting a few days or a week to be rewarded for good behavior. Also, less emphasis on material objects as rewards and more talk about morals and being a good person and feeling good inside when you make the right choice.

It sounds like you have your hands full! This sounds like a common phase. My first suggestion is to think shorter term. Go one day at a time with rewards. Instead of making him wait a week, give it a few hours or even a full day. He is young yet to go a full week. Another important thing is to remember to keep your cool when he is having a fit, hitting, throwing, etc. He will just get wilder until he gets the response he wants from you. Try to catch him being good, and reward him for that. If all of his toys and privileges are gone, he has no motivation to do things right. I would guess a lot of it is upset about the baby. On the one hand, he will just have to get over it. On the other hand, it is a big upset for him and he will need help transitioning. It sounds like you are already doing a lot to give him attention. Maybe try making it more of a scheduled thing. If it is built into the routine every day it should help him calm down. Other than that, just hang on and try to keep your cool, mama. Good luck to you

S.,

I'll be honest and say that I don't know what I'd do in your situation, but what I do want to say is IGNORE the spanking women! How are you supposed to teach your child that hitting is wrong when you are hitting them as a form of punishment? Shame on them for sending mixed signals to their small children. One of my favorite guilt tricks I use with my little guy when he hits is, "Mommy doesn't hit you because it hurts, so you shouldn't hit Mommy." It may not work with your son, but when he's calm it might be worth a try to keep reiterating. Good luck!

Put on your mean face and get a little scary. Scream and yell a little and let him know in no uncertain terms that you've had enough. Storm off, slam a door, and become a little unpredictable for a while.

He thinks he's got you figured out so it's time to shake things up.

Works for me.

When I worked at the daycare center we had a child that was a lot like you described. We sat down as a classroom unit and made rules.(You need to do this as a family) After the rules you need to make consequences that must be enforced. Example: RULE-No running inside. CONSEQUENCE-1st offense, time out 2nd offense, time out during free time/outside time, 3rd offense, note to parents. Just change the consequences to fit what will work in your family. These will change as your child gets older. A school age child would not care about toys taken away but would care about not being able to go play with a friend. Let your child have input about consequences. You will learn what they care about. The child I had in class enjoyed our once a week show and tell. When he realized that it was a privelage to get up and participate and that could be taken away if his behavior was bad then he really tried to behave. He was also really smart and would get bored with certain activities so we were challenged to make sure he was always challenged. You do not mention if he went to school yet. Sometimes learning to get along with a group of people will help at home also. The main thing is tobe consistent and follow through with the rules and consequences. I know this can be hard some days but if you enforce on Monday, let it slide on Tuesday, then try to enforce on Wednesday, they know they can get away with it. It is also really important on the consequences if you take the toy away for 3 days, don't give it back after 1 or 2 days. You might talk to the dr. as well. Sometimes when a child has learning differences/difficulties they act out also. Good Luck!

I have not dealt with that extreme a situation but my children went through some of what you are talking about. Until I met John Rosemond! That man saved my family. He told me that a child does not NEED anything but food, shelter and clothing. He suggested taking EVERYTHING out of their rooms except the bed (on the floor - remove the frame). Remove ALL toys from the house. These are privileges not rights! If your child misbehaves in anyway that you deem inappropriate, that child is to spend the WHOLE day in their rooms. If the offense was at the beginning of the day, that is ALL day, if it is 4:00, that is the rest of the day. After dinner is bath and bed, even if dinner is at 4 p.m.! He said they will only act that way a few times and then realize that you mean business. My children did exactly as he said! They only did it a couple more times and we now have children that obey! They know we mean business. Another thing he said was to NOT raise our voices. Remain calm. If you need to get an outside lock on the child's door, then do so. He also said that if you are unsure about the lock on the door, get a half door or cut his door in half and that way you can see in the room and make sure he is fine.

I know that seems extreme, but extreme behavior calls for extreme measures. I know you are saying that you aren't cutting your door in half, well, just remember that you are raising your child to be a responsible adult. That is your main goal in raising children -- to be a responsible citizen in society.

Please read John Rosemond's books. They all have helped me in some way. www.johnrosemond.com

Good luck!

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Dear S.,
First, what recent changes have occurred in his life recently?
Second, get him checked by the pediatrician. Your son may be responding to feeling sick and poorly, but without any obvious symptoms.

Next, to quote some previous advice:
"Your child, spent 5 years without competition. When her new little brother came last year, she received attention because she had a "new baby". Now, they are both competitors for your time and attention, he's more of a person, he's getting into things, he's been cute for too long, and a serious threat to her relationship with you.
My stepson was 5 or 6 when his first sibling was born in his mother's house. We were told that he tried to poke out his brother's eyes with a pencil. (We heard about it because his mom blamed it on his dad and me. We lived across town in a different household.)
I remember reading an analogy to younger siblings:
The husband brings home a new lover and says to his wife, 'Hi Honey! I've brought home another wife just like you. Don't worry, I have enough love in me for both of you ... and when she get a little older, you can play together. For now, though, she needs more of my time and energy. Just be nice and gentle with her while she's getting used to our world. If she plays with your things and breaks them, don't be mean. But, please don't break her things. Etc,.'"
Good luck!!

Wow, that's a tough one.
I know people who have had great success with the suggestions in this book - there is also one for ages 6 and up...

"How to behave so your preschooler will too" by Sal Severe

It is an easy read, you don't have to read it cover to cover to start using it. You can get it out of the library. It was very helpful to me for a head strong, tantrum throwing 3 yo.

Are you in the Raleigh area?
Call "Project Enlightenment"
It is a non-profit organization designed to help parents and children in loads of different situations.

http://www.projectenlightenment.wcpss.net/parent_resource...

"These services are available to Wake County families who have concerns about their young children's learning, development or behavior. Call ###-###-#### for information or to schedule an appointment."

IF you are in another area, search to see if there are other programs available to you for support!

Hang in there!

P

ok I have a few suggestions...maybe you have already tried them idk. Stop feeding him hot chocolate on your dates, don't give him any thing that has red dye in it. take him to the park on your dates so he can release some of that energy instead of things that are not physical, read to him and make him put his nose in a circle on the wall...(you can paint a chalkboard area) and use that for time out, He needs to be around other kids his age so once and a while maybe 1 day a week take him to the day care....this also gives you a break. Don't feel guilty by taking him to daycare either because it makes you a better mommy by getting a break, trust me you will have more patience to deal with the bad things that he is doing. Also don't feed him any sugar and add water to juices. He should only have one glass of juice, and milk a day the rest should be water. ignore him when he is throwing a fit because he is only trying to get your attention. If you pay attention when he is being a good boy he will see that being good gets the attention instead of being bad. Just focus on the good behavior and a lot of praise when he is being good. You just have to retrain yourself then you can retrain him. That's all. Good luck I hope I helped.
C.

There are some big issues with this child. Try to see a therapist. Good luck.

WOW S.... Bless you and your family. You have your hands full. When you were going to take him to the movie, and he had the tantrum, did you still take him? It sounds like you are remaining firm, but you really must. If you say you are going to do something, you must do it, and not let him get the upper hand. The "dates" are a great thing. It sounds like he is very jealous of the new child. Have you made him a big part of helping with little brother?? Are you active in church? Perhaps Mothers Day out for him to be around other children in a Christian environment, and having to share?!?!? It really sounds like you have done most things, but.. those are just a few other suggestions. Has anything changed in the household lately, other than a little brother? He may be acting out against other changes. Best to you and God Bless!

My son did this too. He'll be 6 in August. We did the toy time outs too. We did reward charts. We ran off energy outside. We had talks about behavior and what was appropriate and not appropriate. We talked about how friends aren't going to want to play with you when you are too aggressive. (He also gets grabby when he is excited about something. He'll pull on you to play or show you something.)
I read a couple of James Dobson's books ... Dare to Discipline and another one. I also read Raising Cain (can't remember the author). It was about protecting the emotional lives of boys. It is o.k. to be upset and o.k. to be angry. They still need to be able to deal with it without violence and destruction. My friend read "How to Raise Your Spirited Child." She said it helped a lot in dealing with tantrums of her 3rd child. It had to deal with your childs personality vs. your personality. Another friend said that she read there is a hormone fluctuation at about this age and that contributes to it.
I think what worked the most, was consistency in the way it was handled. If you let it slide sometimes, he will take that and run with it. Bad behavior can not be tolerated or he will expect to get away with it. Time outs (if that is the punishment) must be enforced. Tell him you will start the time over, if he doesn't sit in the spot and be quiet. Think about why he is there. Afterwards, talk about it and talk about how his reaction can be better next time. Then, wipe the slate clean and try again. If it was an offense to the sibling, he must apologize and give hugs. (at least in our house) This goes with "It's the only brother/sister you have and you have to take care of them and protect them."
Now, we are not the Cleavers, but things have gotten better. He still has fits where he doesn't want to cooperate. I try to give warnings before it is time to do certain things where he has to shift from fun to maybe not so fun (clean up toys, go inside, bedtime). That helps his mind start making the shift.

Have his DAD SPANK HIS BUTT! No offense intended. I don't EVEN WANT TO DEAL with the opinions against it, so NO-ONE need send me threats, blah, blah about it. Of course it is a last resort option, but for some kids, this is the way to deal with them.
Other than that figure out where he is learning this behavior and/or get him into counseling.
Then again, he may just be tired of being at home with you. He may need to branch out. If you can afford it, try a 2-3 day week at preschool for him. Don't take it personally, but he may need attention from someone else.

Has he learned to write yet? I have a girl who just turned six. At around 5 1/2 I had her start writing sentences for the bad things she did. For example, she hit me. I wrote at the top of the paper 'I will not hit my mom.' Then I had her write it six times.

No matter what the punishment you HAVE TO BE CONSISTANT! Whether you have another child or not. More importantly because you have another child. I know it's difficult but if you don't stick to your guns, you're going to be in for it down the road. The aggravation you feel now will be amplified. So will his behavior.

I am so sorry. You don't mention, does he act this way with other adults or does he save it all for you? Does he behave at preschool, church, mothers day out? Did it start with the new baby, or was he that way before? With my kids, I have specific good job charts to earn back their toys (if they don't tidy up and I have to pick up their toys, the toys go in time out). They have a clean up chart, a meal time manners chart, and a bed and bath chart, and they earn stickers to get toys out of time out. That helps to specify the good behavior.

It sounds like you are doing your best to give him one on one. I will ponder it today.

the best advice I ever received on parenting was through John Rosemon, the author. He has a website and great books. Also James Dobson, THE STRONG WILLED CHILD, and DARE TO DISCIPLINE, are great resources. Regaining control may seem like an impossible task, but it is not so far away as you may think. The advice that these guys give is awesome. As a mother of four boys I could not parent without these and of course tons of prayer. It is excellent that you are seeking help now. J.

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/parenting/effective_bibli...

http://www.applest.com/strongwilled.asp

Try these. Hope they help.

I personally had a strong willed child and the only thing that got through to him was a good old controlled swat on his bottom, and to later re-firm our love for him. Raising him put a strain on our marriage and at one point, we had considered separation. We stuck it out and I am thankful now for doing so. He is now 25, married and apologizes to me often for putting us through so much! He understands very much the actions we took and has more love and respect for us now then ever.

Dr. Dobson has a great book about the strong willed child. Good luck.

Have you sit down in a quiet room and asked him what's wrong? Sounds like he needs attention. Just listen to him and be there for him. Ask good questions, like "do you think I'm not spending enough time with you?" I love you so much and want you to know that even when your bad I still love you. You talk and tell me what is bothering you and lets see if we can figure out a solution.

Both of you make a schedule together which includes Learn time (20min 3 times a day) Play time (give what time you can and let him choose the activity) Craft time and paint a picture or make mud pies or something. But also include on the schedule your time with the 1 yr old so he sees you have to give your time to that child as well. During your time with the 1yr old make sure each day he has activities to do during the time away from you. Like color 5 pictures or race cars or play football (whatever he loves) but try to keep it structured and you will be so proud of him and he will be excited because of your telling him how proud you are of him for allowing you to spend time with the 1yr old.

Then if he will ask him to teach the 1yr old what he knows to help you out. Say he/she needs you to help teach because your so smart and he/she will learn from you so much easier.....then ask him exactly what he thinks he should teach and help get involved with both of them learning together. If he don't know, say how about this, but make sure he is ok with what you choose.

Maybe in time he will learn to respect you again by treating him as a little adult and not bossing him around (not that you do) but basically respecting him and his needs.

Time will tell, but maybe it will work

Good luck

Hi S..
Perhaps try to pinpoint if anything has changed in his life. That can turn kidos upside down big time. Vaccinations can cause some not so good behavior as well.
Vaccinations have lots of neurotoxins that can make them act in a way that you have never seen because of the damage they can cause. Just food for thought.
Please let me know if you would like more info on damage of vaccinations or if I can help in anyway.
I think ruling out changes in his life is a good start though.
W. in Sellersburg

talk to your doctor. while i say some of this is age i dont think all of it is. good luck

I know a great behavioral therapist in the area who works with kids his age. Her name is Katie Pendergrast. She might really be able to help you.

Have you changed something in his diet. My son was very sensitive to sugar and would get mean if he had too much. I had to even watch the natural sugar I gave him. There are also calming natural essential oils you can diffuse to help calm him when he gets in these moods. Let me know if I can help.

try letting him help take care of your 1 year old keep telling him he is the big brother and he is in charge of him get him more active with him ,because it sounds like to me he is really jealous deep down inside and a tantrum is his only way to express his feelings yours truely arlinder phillips memphis tn.

I feel for you. I know how frustrating it can be. I have been a stay at home mom for a year now but prior to that I was a Kindergarten teacher. While reading your post, I couldn't help but think about the advise I was given while teaching as I had a few children who needed special attention. One thing I noticed in your post is that you are returning your child's toys after a "few days" of good behavior. At this age, you might want to try a more short term goal and see if that works any better for you. For instance, if he behaves then quickly reward him with the return of one of his toys, instead of making him wait a few days. Children this age need immediate feedback. Also, I don't know if you have tried redirecting him when a tantrum begins. Maybe singing one of his favorite songs with him or have him be your "helper" putting away clean dishes or folding laundry (sorting socks) which can also be used as a learning experience (counting, matching, etc). Hopefully this is of some help. Good luck.

I agree with the mom who mentioned dietary changes - like no chocolate or red dye.

When my son was 2 (he is now 17) I figure out that he was hypersensitive to red food coloring. If he ate it he became hyper, wild, and very emotional. Chocolate kind of did the same thing to him, but that was a size thing I believe because he can eat it now just fine. Over the years, I have ran into other moms who have had the same problem with red food coloring for their child.

So you might want to pay attention to what he eats before these incidents and see if you can pin anything down that sets it off.

The other ideas that came to me and that have helped my children is chiropractic adjustments, osteopathic manipulation therapy (including cranial osteopathy) by a D.O. or in a few cases, an M.D., CranioSacral therapy, and EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique). www.emofree.com has a free downloadable manaul. www.tapping.com has a free diagram and it is very easy to do.

This link talks about a nice nightly routine with children http://www.emofree.com/tutorial/tutorofifteen.htm

Anyway, you are a good mom and I totally sympathize with you. Good luck!

First, stop referring to him as a demon child, even in your own mind. He's still your sweet little boy. He's just going through a rough time right now.

It seems that many of his offenses, the ones you've mentioned, have to do with his little brother. For four years your older son had your full attention, and then suddenly someone else came into the picture. And, because the one-year old is still sweet and cuddly, he's easier to love right now.

Find some ways to help the two boys bond. I always did a gift exchange when the baby was born, and you could still do one now. Find simple activities, like little singing games, you can do with both boys. Encourage their friendship and be careful not to show favoritism to the younger one. Their brotherhood can be a lifelong bond to help them as they grow older. This is the time to start.

S., You mentioned that this is "not usual behvior for him". How was he behaving about 3 months prior?? If it gets worse, you may have to get professional help if it lasts more than another 3 months. Is there anything else, like possibly any arguing between you and your husband or other home or school stresses that maybe he's having a hard time dealing with? You're smart by trying to have one on one time with him. I'll pray for wisdom and strength for you. S.

Hi S.... I am so glad you posted this because I am going through the EXACT same thing. Same ages and everything. I am at my wits end. I don't know what else to do or try. I know Tyler's isn't from lack of attention because he has most of my attention because he is acting out so much. I love on him all the time and that doesn't seem to help. So if you find solutions PLEASE let me know. Good luck.

You poor thing; I'm so sorry! The best I can recommend is to read John Rosemond. His book Raising a Nonviolent Child would be helpful, and his Six Point Plan for Raising Happy Healthy Children will give you more guidelines for exactly how to get him under control. First of all, make sure his room is child proofed (like he can't get out the windows or destroy anything) and turn his doorknob around. Then, when he needs a time out (and it should easily be an HOUR), put him in there and lock the door. Three offenses in a day, and he stays there the rest of the day (may come out for dinner and to use the toilet). That might get the message across to him. But, read John Rosemond!!! His books are on amazon, or his website (rosemond.com). I wish you all the best. I have high-spirited boys as well, and am constantly trying to keep it together and keep them from destroying our home and eachother.

You have quite a dilemma, but I daresay that you haven't yet tried 'everything', because something -- handled correctly -- is bound to work. The very fact that you used the words 'demon child' in the title of your request says that you're already frustrated and angry with your older son.

He evidently feels displaced by this baby. Is the 2nd one an 'easy' child? They usually are, and if so, you will automatically be attracted to him. The older one can tell this, and it leaves him feeling betrayed, replaced, angry and frustrated so he'll do anything to get your attention -- postive OR negative.

Maybe he needs some 'Daddy time' or some time at someone else's house where he feels more 'special' (in a good way). He's evidently REALLY frustrated, and it needs addressed.

I'm not familiar with John Rosemond's teachings, but they're lauded highly here on MamaSource.
I do highly recommend Focus on the Family (Dr. James Dobson) and they have all kinds of free materials and even counselors at 1-800-A-FAMILY or 1-800-232-6459.
Kevin Leman is wonderful, also (several books and lots of online information).
And Dr. James Lehman @ http://www.thetotaltransformation.com/
I also recommend watching a few episodes of 'Nanny 911'. They're great! Consistency is the most important thing. I'm a 51 yr old mother of 4 adults and 'Mom-Mom' to 3 younger kiddies, and MY mother gave me the best one-line parenting advice I've ever heard: "Don't say anything to a child unless you really mean it." You are the parent, not someone to be argued or fought with. WIN every time! I'd also add to accentuate the postive and ignore the negative as much as possible. This doesn't include ignoring destructive or harmful behavior, though. Just if he's verbally rude, act like your ears can't even hear it. He's trying to get a 'rise' out of you. Don't give him the satisfaction, but praise and encourage ANY pleasant behavior!

I can understand your frustration. A friend of mine went through this when her son was this age. She ended up consulting a counselor and things are a lot better now. I don't know everything that she did, but I do know that taking away the toys was part of it. Her son is doing a lot better now.

One thought I have, 5-year-olds tend to think in short term rather than long term. Making it so that he has to behave for a couple of days to get the toys back may be too hard for him to keep track of. With my friend, it started with no tantrums for an hour or two and then he got ONE toy back (he got to pick it). Then it went up to another two hours and another toy and kept increasing. Kids think in shorter time spans and getting only one toy at a time could help a lot because he still has motive to behave.

You do need to get the message to him that hitting, kicking, etc. is not acceptable or you may be dealing with that for a long time. And it might be good to consult someone professional for other ideas. My heart goes out to you, good luck.

Oh no! Poor S.! I agree with the girl below, read John Rosemond. I read them all. Just try to remain calm, think ahead of him -what he might do in response to a particular situation so you can avoid getting bruises and show him he isn't going to phase you with this, and put him in his (safe) room for the rest of the day. Also no deals or discussion about it. Tell him this is the way it works and this is what will happen. Then when it happens (it will), do it directly and calmly, no emotion. Put away ALL sissors or anything he could hurt someone or himself with!!!

Another thing I am trying this summer, is those "Responsibility Charts" from Tookies that may work once you get him to stop hitting, etc. I know they are expensive, but they are wooden and have magnets. My 5 year old very strong-willed boy likes getting his magnets and I don't even give him anything else for getting them! It includes "chores" such as put away toys, take out trash, set table, apologize to someone, keep hands to yourself, show respect, say please and thank you, get dressed, brush teeth, make bed, take care of pet, clean up room, stop whining, etc.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!!! Best wishes...it will pass.

Hey..I just wanted to say Im going through the exact same thing with my son. I am a single mom with a 6 yr old son, he has adhd and is a handful!!!! In fact this morning was my breaking point!!! I had enough this morning I was online searching for advice on this..Timeouts dont do anything..he just laughs and says this isnt gonna work..i have spanked him but i dont like to and that just makes him worse..Ive taken away toys for a day or so but I havent taken away everything before because i feltt like he had to have something to do at home afterschool or all weekend but enough is enough..which is where we are today.. I told him this morning that I was gonna take away ALL of his stuff today..toys, outside time, all gaming systems, and tv time..anyway thanks for posting this..its been very helpful! hopefully we can talk again soon! Good luck with your little one!

Check out www.feingold.org. Feingold is a 30yr old non-profit organization whose purpose is to inform the public about artificial ingredients in our food supply. These harmful additives cause ADD, ADHD, and many other physical, emotional, and behavioral side effects including AGGRESSION. Feingold is a leading authority on this subject and has helped thousands of families over the years. Our oldest daughter acted the same as your son, and we could see a 100% difference after only two weeks of no food dyes and preservatives. Your son may be acting out because he is jealous, but he also may be sensitive to chemicals in his foods. Best wishes.

Hi S.,

I recommend the book To Train up a Child by Michael and Debi Pearl. It is incredibly short for the amount of wisdom it holds.

God bless!

M.
www.squidoo.com/ifyourbabycouldtalk