Thanks for clarifying that for me, Bobbi. I have problems sometimes making people understand what I am trying to say. I just get so frustrated with her! I was asking if it was possible for a child to not do good in an English class because he had parents that didn't talk properly. All I can do is listen to her vent because her child is so "stupid" and try not to say anything. There was so much more that I didn't say! For instance, he flunked 5th grade and had to take it again. He has been in school for a couple of weeks now and already making Fs. She says he isn't even trying. So, I thought maybe when they ask him to complete sentences on his paperwork, that maybe he picks how he hears his parents talk, not the way it should be spoken. In no way was I putting either of them down, or saying I speak/write perfect English every time. I do have to say, my kids that are full grown did quite well in English.
Bobbi, I was horrible in math but my kids were great. So, I know something like that isn't inherited, thankfully! I do appreciate the new comments that were posted on here since yesterday. It is frustrating to "cry" for help and have almost everyone make fun of you instead of trying to help you.
Thanks Dawn. You had the best answer. Everyone else just didn't "get" it. I didn't say I had perfected the english language. Most answers on here were insulting and not much help. I am his Godmother and want him to do the best he can. He can't read past a 5th grade level either. I have asked his mother to get a free tutor from the high school and she won't. She says that would embarass her around her friends.
@Mamazita...I thought it--you actually said it! LOL
@S.--Historically, there have been tons of people who have overcome obstacles WAY larger than a mother who is grammatically incorrect!
I have in-laws like this. They don't even know they are doing it.
How old is her son? I'll bet he will be correcting her very soon!
You mean, "how to speak properly" and "when the parents don't know how to speak it?"
Those in glass houses...
(sorry, I couldn't resist!)
Most kids learn what is expected of them in school, and it is often far different from what they hear at home.
I live in California where many kids come in speaking no English at all, and they can be some of the brightest, most hard working students you've ever seen.
I'm not sure why you're so concerned about it, it sounds like you're being a little judgmental.
I can't believe someone suggested going over there and tutoring him in front of his mother!? I'd like to tutor a few regulars on this site for their poor language and writing skills, lol!
An adult brain has trouble changing life-long language habits, but kids still in school have a much easier time of it. If he wants to use proper grammar, he can probably learn to do so.
I recall when my daughter was in high school, the "Valley Girl" inflection was very popular, and all my daughter's friends, like, talked that way. I was worried about what that would do to her future job prospects. She was fine – it was a bit like also knowing a second language. And I've had several friends who successfully dropped strong regional accents.
I think that he can overcome the "language at home" as much as anybody whose family doesn't speak clear English. The boy needs to be open, however, to learning proper English. One way is to read books or challenge himself with movies and media that present proper English vs poor grammar. I also agree that the struggle may not be his mother, but his own natural inclination (or not) toward English. Maybe he struggles because he's better in math. I struggled in math myself, and it wasn't because my mother wasn't an accountant. Oh, and my sister? Getting her degree in accounting.
Edit to add that you didn't include the information about her turning down tutoring for her son, that you are his godmother (so a very close friend) or that he cannot read at a 5th grade level earlier. Without all the info, we can only go on what we read. I thought I had a pretty realistic answer given what I read and I didn't bash anybody. Maybe I shouldn't care but I did try to "get it" based on the information given. If you want clearer answers, please try to include relevant information.
He will likely learn correct grammar at school and from other sources of people he is around. If he is diligent and studies, he can do it.
I know my grammar isn't perfect, but it drives me nuts that my mom uses "done" in a similar way, and she also uses double negatives. So, some people do turn out alright.
Of course he can. Your son's friend comes in contact with a lot of different people other than his mom. His struggle with the class may be because english is not his thing. I have 4 children and my hubby and I are both well educated and well spoken. Guess what? 2 children did great with english and the other 2 struggled. It has more to do with the function of the brain rather than what the child is exposed to. My english lovers were more creative while the other 2 were more logic based.
You might want to reach out and help your son's friend with the class or give him helpful study tips instead of feeling sorry for him and blaming his family.
I write abominably on this site.
When I first started message boards, I wrote as if I were writing for publication (before this site). I wrote, went back and edited. Restructured. Minded my grammar. Minded the flow of paragraphs. Minded balanced content.
I wrote charming (gack, for lack of a better word) little mini articles, mini essays, that got halfway edited and sat in draft format. Finally, one day, on an ADHD board (figuring my peeps would cut me some slack) I said 'screw it' wrote from the hip in stream of consciousness, with no editing whatsoever, and just brazenly hit send. Paragraph long sentences. Atrocious flow. Dangling participles and half explored thoughts.
It was one of the scariest things ever for me (and quite frankly, I still can't blog. I keep trying.)
But (incorrect, But never starts a sentence except for in dialogue and purposeful rule breaking for effect) do you know why I write this way on here and other boards?
1) I can get away with it
2) That's what I have time for
I sell to a few UK/AU/NZ sources (far more frequently than US). Those are actual articles. I write in standard British. Anyone who has ever wondered about my mum/mom thing, is because my spell check doesn't catch it, although it does catch colour, rumour, etc. I have a very different 'voice' in those articles. I also write mediocre fiction. Short and long stories. I have a few different voices I use in those. I'm also a US student. I write academic papers in both APA and MLA styles (that's the problem with majoring in both hard and soft science AND arts).
Bottom line; I write 6 ways from Sunday. Each meeting the requirements of the medium.
Most students rise (or relax) to meet expectations. I would strongly suspect that rather than it being a problem at HOME, that the problem exists, instead, with the English classes he's taken and those whom have taught them.
My professor friends who have to grade a lot of papers are thinking about all getting together and drinking kool-aid. Writing standards have PLUMMETED in the past few years, and they're going quite mad with the quality of work their (otherwise 4.0) students are giving them. Much less the less rigorous students. English, and writing in particular, just isn't being taught well over the past 8 years.
As others have said; students are often not just bilingual, but also bi-dialect. Myself, having lived NW, SW, SE, MidWest, UK, etc... I can speak in about 11 or 12 different 'dialects' and 'accents' of American English alone.
The only way mom can be blamed, is if she's homeschooling and not farming out language arts. Otherwise, kids actually DO learn what and how they're taught.
.
I like AV's answer (didn't read them all though). He can overcome it if he wants to and puts the effort forth. He may not have the greatest model at home, but if he looks for other models - reading, the 'right' tv shows - the news perhaps, you - then he can learn the right way to speak and write. It's not really "cool" in 8th grade to speak ilke some stuck-up snob. I think kids this age will speak how all their friends speak. (Real quick, I got a letter from a student of mine. I taught her 3rd grade. English was her second language. She was a bright girl. She wrote me when she was a sophmore in high school and it sounded like this "Waz up? I wuz thinkin of u the other day. Oh and dis is a pic of my brother....." Seriously. It was awful. But that's how the kids speak in that neighborhood, so she just sounded it out to spell it. The kids have to try harder when they don't have the support at home.
S. you are so right. I absolutely hate it when people use.... was, were, then, than, done, did, etc..... It is stupid. I correct people. It sounds horrible. And yes, this boy needs to be taught correct English. NO we are not perfect, but sheesh lets give it a try. Its ridiculous how these people talked to you. ANYONE should try teaching any child out there the correct way. I will correct any child in any way if I see them acting or saying the wrong thing. I am glad I had my older sister to help me with that so I didnt sound stupid. I tell my kids to try their best because no one will take them seriously as an adult.
S.,
I don't know details, and I have not read others responses; however, if you have a kind of friendship with the kid's mom, is it possible that you help the kid and help with the grammar problem?(I cannot find your post, so I don't remember the gender, sorry) Both of them will benefit a lot from your help. Give the mom some English handouts for her to look at and speak nicely to her and ask her if she would allow you to help on this, minutes a day H. and there.
Have a nice day!
Seriously? This is not your problem.
My daughter is the top of her class. Her written English is impeccable, there are certain words she will correct us on, no gets, gots, to be verbs, likes.
When she is not writing a composition she relaxes into her "southern slang", 7 years in NC will do that to a person.
She can turn it on and off like a switch. She will use it to her advantage with her peers, they think it's so "cool", she is 16. My eyes roll constantly when in their company.
Sometimes she will let a he don't, a y'all, a M., in her twang go. But, she will use proper English when speaking to someone of consequence, the principal, the pastor, an elder at church.
If this boy wants to, he will speak correctly.
I probably suck at math as much as your friend sucks at English. Yet my kids have made it/are making it through 8th grade math.
If the school sees a problem they will talk to your friend about it. 8th grade English is so much more than the spoken word. I doubt you'd even be able to pass it with flying colors.
As far as people not getting it, perhaps you need to write more clearly to make yourself understood. Your original post that you erased made it sound like you were being judgmental about a friend, not that you were interested in helping.
I agree with everything Mamazita wrote.
Many children overcome ignorant regional accents, English as a second (or third or fourth) language, and poor speech in their homes. I would wager a guess that his struggles are more reflective of inheriting a relative weakness in language arts (i.e. "nature") versus just hearing his mother's speech patterns ("nurture"). Meaning that he may have inherited her tendency to not be strong in English. That doesn't mean he's doomed, it just means that he has to try harder and seek out extra help. I tend to get kudos from teachers for my children's rich vocabularies and proper use of things like adverbs (my 5-year-old uses them correctly), even though one of them has a language-based learning disability. I can't take credit though - they probably just inherited my aptitude for language and vocab. Perhaps your friend and her son are in the same situation. Would you assume that a child who struggles in math does so because his or her parents demonstrate poor math skills in the presence of the child? Probably not, right? Rather than blame your friend, continue to be yet another model of passable grammar in your speech and encourage her to encourage her son to use all resources available for his assignments (proofreading, staying after school for extra help, etc.).
