A Tough Choice

go for 50/50, and find a job ASAP. Once you have a job you can get a lawyer and go for full custody.

This does sound hard, and I don't know if a stranger can really give you good advice. But I would say that you should not make any rash decisions --- don't make a big decision now that you might regret later.

I can't fathom giving up my child, so I don't even know how to respond to that.

You are well educated and your job has been being a mom, an arrangement he accepted. He doesn't have to "help you out." He agreed to the arrangements, and he owes it to your daughter to keep her standard of living the same with a SAHM at least in the short term. Additionally, he can't "kick you out." This is your residence, and even if he is on the lease or the owner, he has to give you notice before you are expected to leave.

It sounds like you are giving him a lot of credit and a lot of power. Snap out of it. He is not in control. You are an equal and if you consider to assume he has all the power, then he will win every fight legal or otherwise. You need ot get your confidence back fast, and demonstrate for your daughter how a woman is to be treated.

As for him being a manipulative jackass? Yes, you migh thave to fight him tooth an nail for child support and visitation arrangements, etc. But your daughter is worth the fight. I don't know if he is a good parent generally or if he even loves his child, but I will assume he does, even as he treats you badly. I think if you show him he can't walk all over you, then he will stop.

Get a lawyer no matter what. Look for a job. Put every penny you have in a single bank account, even if it means selling your clothes (or his). See a therapist and document his treatment of you (you can find free mental health help or even see a pastor - the key is to document!). See a doctor and get tested for STDs. Call the pediatrician and ask about the risk of the STD spreading to your child.

Good grief, I know you feel bad, and I am so sorry you are in this spot, but you will regret playing the victim to this man forever. In a year, you will feel so good to be on your own.

And keep in mind, giving up custody sets a very bad precedent to a court system. It looks like you don't want to be a mother. This is a hurdle that you might never get back from. Even if he would be awarded custody, you should fight for what you want and what your daughter needs which is you.

Use those brains (and that degree as well) for good instead of sitting around letting them get stagnant! Sounds like it's time to quit the 'poor me' routine & start getting angry. Hell, I'm angry for you right now, so pick up on that & run with it.

I am in awe that you even took the time to type up the option of giving up your child knowing full well what will happen to her if you do.

Get up with those friends of yours & as some other mama's said, as for a few hours of baby-sitting while you get your sh*t together & look for a job. Contact every last one of the agencies Momma L. gave you links for & explain your situation. DO SOMETHING!! Take control of your life for your sake & your daughter's sake for the love of God! Nobody said being an adult & a parent was going to be easy or that you were never going to make any mistakes, so it's time to grow up & handle your business & show your kid what a strong, determined woman looks like.

I second a lot of what Momma L says. I gave birth to my daughter one month before I turned 15. I was no where near the end of my education. I stayed with my parents for the first 3 years and I worked while I went to school. You are a lot farther ahead of me at this point. I worked in a cafeteria while I finished high school, and then went on to a dealership and would work part time in sandwich shops and or convenience stores to make extra money. There weren't many job opportunities available for me at that time because for one, I didn't have a college education and for two, I was a young woman. Were talking late 80's early 90's. It was very early in the breakthrough for women. So now you are really ahead of me.

I had my daughter's natural father on my back constantly threatening to take my daughter from me. It was a threat that's all. He never had interest in her, but the threat worked good to put a little scare in me and a good attempt to get me to call off the child support order. He was ridiculous! You can't call off the orders once they have been filed, but he constantly asked.

So you can sit around and cry or you can get out there and look for work. I understand you are in a position, but as soon as you find the opportunity for work and have an interview, tell your family to wire you some money so you can put your baby girl in a day care or have a sitter lined up. He hasn't drained you because he can't drain what he can't have! If you want your baby than fight for her. You can cry about it later if you need to, right now...get it together and fight back! You mention friends, ask them to watch her while you catch the bus and go on an interview. Don't let that degree get in your way...take whatever job you can get and then worry about where you land.

*BTW, my daughter is now 28. We made it and he never touched us.
*To my knowledge, he has to prove you unfit, unless that is different in CA. My opinion on this, is once you have a job, your own money, and become empowered, he will have a bit of a different attitude. Sometimes it takes a strong woman to stand up to these pushy guys. I am glad to hear you have applied for food stamps and begun making phone calls. Just because he has put this nonsense in his documents doesn't mean it is so, let it go to court. If nothing else, you will be provided a district attorney. Just because you fight now, doesn't mean you will fight forever, I think he is pulling your strings. I think he is full of sh!t. Who knows, he may not even be prepared to take care of her. With all hopes, she will have both of you in her life and he will get over himself. Please think about this before you sign anything. Don't allow him to push you into signing anything, you do have the right to negate his "requests".

First of all, I am so sorry for your situation. However, please don't ever give up on your daughter. Just because he has filed and put stipulations in his papers does not mean that he will get what he is asking for. When you have your daughter there is no reason a judge would tell you that you are not allowed to go visit your family. And if you just walk away, what kind of life will your daughter have? Do you really want her being raised by someone that is so controlling and immoral? Even if you only have 50% custody at least you will be there to help balance her out. I know it's not an easy situation but I bet that once he realizes that he is not able to continue to control you he will get bored and move on. Good luck and please don't give up on your daughter.

Start looking for a job. Even filling in as a substitute would provide you with an income and allow you to start getting on your feet.

Right now he can tell the judge that you won't work. You aren't even looking. He can tell the judge that you would not be able to provide a home and support your child, that is the truth right now. He can tell the judge you would not even go to the grocery store unless he took you, that you wouldn't even keep the vehicle and drive yourself anywhere, he can make it sound like the truth and he will have witnesses who will say they never saw you outside the home unless he was driving you or with you.

So, to fight this you must get a job now, not a low income job but a full time position that pays a good salary. Look into all kinds of situations. Private schools, public schools, child care facilities, pre-schools like Head Start, child care facilities, etc...there are jobs out there and the only way you can find one it to look.

If you go to a woman's shelter tonight with your daughter they will help you get on the waiting list for low income housing. They will help you get WIC for her, they will help you get food stamps and other income from the state right now so that you can show you are doing whatever you need to do to be a good provider for your child. They will also help you start building your self esteem and self image again so you will have the strength to fight this guy.

Also, you need to understand that child care will be free for a while, until you start getting checks in. Then they will figure your part of the payment. You need to put her in a child care facility. Not with him or a relative. Someone that, if asked, would be able to go to court and testify for you that your child is always clean when she comes in, always fed, always dressed appropriately, that you always come if they call you and tell you she is sick, that you come in and participate in the parent committees and come to the monthly board meetings, that you are a very involved parent.

I had to testify for parents a couple of times. They were having custody issues and I had to go give a report to the court. People who do not have anything to gain are the best witnesses for you. Friends say what you want them to say, they lie, they make up stuff, etc...judges usually don't count what they say as truth but they do take it into consideration. Impartial people who are professionals in their field are good witnesses when it comes to custody.

I think you have a good chance against him if you just do what is required of a mom. Fight for your daughter. Do not let him get away with not paying child support each and every month too, so many dads are tricking moms into letting them have the child for a month or more in the Summer and they find out later the attorney added that on those long months they don't have to pay child support since the child is with them. That doesn't work out in the moms favor. The bills come each month no matter where the child is. This is not unfair to the dad. They are paying a minimal amount of what they would be paying if they were living with the child and supporting them full time.

You need Legal Shield, we have it and we love it. Please call Edwin Louis at ###-###-####, this is my husband, he can help you. don't delay your daughters well being is at stake here. What Live Bold said to do is a good idea, in the mean time make this call. You and your daughters will be in my prayers. J.

He doesn't want you to fight...he thinks you are unable to! So now what you have to do for your daughter is FIGHT! Fight, get the money you need for a lawyer and fight! 18 mo is nothing for being out of a job, my friend just got a job after 11 years out and no education. he doesn't want you to fight so now you know you need to fight even harder.

And please do NOT listen to anything HE says about this...only listen to your lawyer...they will say whatever they can to get you to "think" but it doesn't mean it is true or mean that it will happen.

I agree wholeheartedly with Momma L. Don't give her up whatever you do. Document EVERYTHING. There are so many resources out there for you. Wish you the best!

Fight, fight, fight!! Your daughter needs to know that you fought for her best interest even if you lose. It doesn't matter if you end up past your eyeballs in debt with lawyer bills, you have to fight to make sure your daughter has the best possible situation for her. She is your daughter, not a bad life decision to be tossed aside now that it's going to make your life hard.
As for his "She can't leave the state without my permission" -- that should be tossed out by the judge unless you are an actual flight risk or have indicated that you will never hand over your daughter for any ordered visitation or custody. He can't dictate that and it is evidence of his need to control you. You need legal counsel. You need legal support. Go into debt to do it -- it is worth it.

I'm not so sure that the conclusions you've drawn based on the information you've gotten are completely correct. I think you need to do more research!

You said you talked to women's shelters and they won't take you. Does that mean they won't even talk to you? They won't even sit down for a few minutes and listen to your case? They won't even give you the name of a lawyer who might be able to help you? Or give you some ideas of things you could do to help your situation?

Do you belong to a church? If so, talk to your pastor or another minister. They know people, they have resources, they WILL point you in the right direction and support you as you proceed. I used to work for the Catholic Church. Believe me, there are many members of churches who would consider taking on a case like yours if asked by the pastor to do so! The pastors I worked for knew their congregations well. They knew the lawyers, the accountants, the doctors, etc. They knew who to talk to and they would be by your side through this entire ordeal. They would make it a priority to find a lawyer who could help you.

Keep talking to people. Keep asking questions. Be the squeaky wheel. Do it for your daughter.

Edited to Add:

You keep saying that this is just he way it is in California, but you received responses from people who live in California and have experience in the process are are telling you that you are incorrect.

Julie L even gave you her husband's phone number!

Listen to what these women are telling you. There is hope!

Definitely look at those resources Momma L mentioned. There are organizations out there to help you. Please don't believe that the options you presented are the only ones.

Also, keep in mind that even if a judge grants a particular custody arrangement, this is not something that is locked in for the next 18 years. Even if the arrangement is labeled "permanent" you can petition for a new arrangement or a change in child support. No matter what the arrangement you are initially given, you can find a job, put money aside and file for a change somewhere down the road.

Do what you can right now, and recognize that you will have opportunities to change things in the future.

Giving up your child to stop him from controlling you is not a choice. There are more resources out there than you're allowing for. You're giving yourself only 2 options (1 of which is unacceptable) and that is seriously limiting yourself. If you got a job and became more emotionally independant and financially secure, that would help to change your role in his AND MORE IMPORTANTLY YOUR EYES. You have so many choices that you're unable to see because you're stuck in a "victim's" role. You talk about him controlling you so many times in your letter, it breaks my heart. You're handing him control so easily. Your babygirl is what's important, that and giving her a mother to respect and show her how to be a strong woman. And she will need her mom. My best advice so I don't go on and on is, seek a mother's or parenting group, They will help you, support you and show you there are more options for you!!

First off, there are a few things here that are not actually true. You could still fight for physical custody of your daughter and the right to move to Hawaii. You would probably have to agree to pay either 100% or at least 50% of her travel expenses for her to come back to spend time with dad once or twice a year.

He can stop you from taking your daughter out of state, but he can't stop YOU from going out of state.

Second, there is no reason why a judge would give him 100% physical custody if you ask for 50%. The courts do try to grant as much visitation to the non-custodial parent as is reasonable and feasible and they do usually opt for 50/50 custody unless there is a good reason not to.

Next, you can use the police report from the domestic violence incident to oppose his request for physical custody. The courts, at least here in Northern California, take DV very seriously. If there is a DV issue, they grant supervised visitation to the non-custodial parent so get a copy of that police report RIGHT AWAY!

Even if he gets 50% custody, you could ask for, oh I can't think of what it's called, but instead of spousal support (which you could ask for if you were married) there is a provision or support of a significant other but I just can't think of what it's called maybe palimony? Anyway, ask for that for a specific period of time (i.e., two years) to allow you time to get a job and get back on your feet.

If I were you, I would also get medical documentation about the std and let the court know about that situation as well.

It seems like you're trying to make decisions based on things that haven't happened. I.E., you say option 1 is to "go with what the judge offers, 50/50" but you don't know that yet. You haven't seen a judge so you don't know if after presenting the DV police report and medical doc re the std if the judge will grant him 50% physical custody. He will probably get the 50% legal custody, but maybe not physical. And just because he's asking that you not be allowed to leave the state, doesn't mean that the judge will grant that. You could ask for an exception to be written into the papers that allows you to take her to Hawaii annually for family visits. Even if they won't do that, when the time comes, if he won't agree to let you take her, you can go back to court and ask the judge to allow her to go for a visit.

Yes, you are going to have to deal with him for the next 18 years and I will bet that he will use your daughter to control you, but that's the boat you're in. I certainly would not just give up my child without a fight.

Take some deep breaths and know that all things are possible. Take this one step at a time; get up each day and put one foot in front of the other, no matter how small the steps. Lots of little steps covers a lot of ground! Get your legalities in order and see how things work. You might find that it's not as bad as you thought it would be or, he might find someone else to control and lose interest in you.

Just don't give up without a fight. You will find it hard to live with yourself if you do. And tell your family to strap on their boots, because you're gonna fight!

I hope you would think this through before you do anything. You don't know what the courts are going to do yet. You are educated and could get a good job it's hard in this economy but it is possible. Why would you think it's better for your daughter to be raised by such an awful father and family 100% of the time and not know her mother and God only knows what he will tell her about you and she may never want a relationship with you ever. I do daycare in California and over the 16 years have seen parents never married or divorced go through the system and little one stay with the mom the first few years of their lives without even overnights because little ones need their moms unless they are unfit. I am always for the better parent and if both are good 50-50. Your daughter is worth going to hell and back for. You could not think your daughter is better off with him and his family then going to court on a regular basis. Get educated about the system before you make a decision . You could set up neutral drop offs with a third party so you never have to come in contact with him. Happily everafter is out there for you and your daughter, but just like anything it takes work. If you decide to not fight for your daughter because it's just not you to Mother alone 100% or 50% that is respectable for you to walk away I just wish for your daughters sake it was a better situation you where leaving her in., I have also seen moms who love there kids more then anything but just not the Mothering kind and the kids are better off with grandma's or dad. Wish you and your daughter the best and what you each need.

This is not a tough choice..you fight for your daughter. You are not working so I see you are feeling less than confident but get yourself down to the courthouse and use whatever time you have to talk with legal aid and file the proper paperwork right away. You are choosing to stay in this (or have) and have put yourself in a very bad position psychologically. It will get better when you leave...when you realize he cannot control you for 18 years...unless you allow him to..which I have faith that you will be able to find your stregnth when away from him. Please, please, please, wait to get into a relationship until you can talk with someone. I say this with kindness and see that you chose him and even you stated that you did not know him well enough to have a child with him or would have liked to have recognized who he was prior to the situation you are in..be careful to not repeat the similar scenario as you may find yourself an easy target for that type of person..I sincerely hope that you are able to get yourself some fine assistance and reach out to friends and family..you may be here alone but they may be able to assist you financially or at least emotionally through this time. Please be sure to not leave without your baby. You do not want a person like this to be able to have any reason to be able to point you out to being a neglectful parent and it seems to me that this might be his intention.

You are a mom now..you have to protect your little girl and you have to see outside yourself. Things can happen in your life but you have to see yourself as the strong mom you have to be. I am sorry for your poor relationship but I am so sorry when I say that I am not seeing that you really see yourself as any part of the problem. To be in that situation you have had to have accepted some conditions and they may seem a high price to pay at this time but never forget that your choices always have consequences..now,you may see this, so that next time you'll see that it is never worth giving your life up to a man or depending on someone that you are not confident enough to even commit your life to in marriage. I just think that you need to find your place in this so you don't victimize yourself to such a degree that you either repeat this type of behavior or it becomes an issue that makes you feel like you are not strong enough to get out of.

I sincerely hope that you read your edits and your updates..you really are sounding like a woman that is looking for a "good reason" to give up your child or the "excuse" to walk away...I don't know if that is the impression you want to leave or if you feel this way your first appointment may want to be with a therapist so that you can find some emotional support.

Good luck..

In MD 50/50 does not mean no child support. Whoever makes more money will still owe money to the othe parent to provide the same life style for the child.

The courts will also look at the best interest of the child if you two can't agree.

I have never been through this so I recommend taking the advice of the mom's with solid resources.

I also recommend to never even consider giving up on your daughter. If YOU as her mom are willing to give up on her, she is set for a rough life ahead. We are the only supports our kids have. I can't imagine ever wanting to give my child up to anyone...I am her mother and always will be. Even if that were to make my life hell for the next 18 years I'd do it for my child.

Fight for your kid. He's trying to hurt you in every way he can (I agree that keeping you from work and other behaviors is abusive). You are right that the only thing he's trying to do is hurt you since you aren't giving him what he wants - the illusion of a happy family. So cry if you need to, and then get to work. Call up one of those friends and say, "Can DD and I move in for a while?" Or call a women's shelter and ask them what resources a woman in your shoes may have.

Start dusting off your resume and see if you can substitute teach. I have friends who make that their FT job. Ask your friends about daycares. Start running your own life vs thinking he's going to do anything for you or fight fair.

Find out what's usual in your state. It maybe 50/50 or it may not be, especially for a child that young. Even if he doesn't pay support (my father never did), you can manage. Even if you are awarded support, it doesn't mean you'll actually get it (see above). So figure that you're on your own, though I agree that 50/50 can still mean support for the parent that makes less.

He went for bear by asking for sole physical custody. Now he needs to prove that's the best option and you need to explain, professionally, factually, calmly, why you are the best option for your child. Go back and detail any facts you can prove.

Keep in mind, nothing is forever. Things change. People who get custody lose it. Kids ask to move. Etc. Just don't shoot yourself in the foot. Friend of mine moved across state lines thinking the distance wouldn't matter b/c it was the same miles - she was very wrong and the judge awarded the father custody of their child because she broke their court order. So now she has a new husband, a beautiful house, a brother for her son...and only sees her kid EOWE and a few weeks in the summer. Don't do that to yourself.

Your goal right now is to rebuild your life and move on. You may have to do it with him in the background, but you can do it. Friend of mine barely saw his daughter but kept fighting and he started changing the tide. Now he has FT custody of his daughter because her mom completely flaked out after the last time the judge called her on her behavior. Your goal is to get a first judgement that is more what you want and less what you don't, but it's not stone. Be informed, take control of your own life for you and your baby. Be strong.

As pretty much everyone has said, DON'T GIVE UP!!! Take everything one day at a time. The worst battle is the one you don't fight. Find and make use of al the resources you can get. Document everything, get copies of the police report, go see your doctor and get checked for ALL kinds of STD's. Get a job, ANY job, ASAP, be it McDonalds or Target or 99 cents store or whatever, while you apply for openings for subbing or anything else in your field. Get your friends to help you in any capacity, be it babysitting, or letting you stay with them while you get your act together. Ask your family for help. Go in with as much ammunition as possible into the courtroom, if it gets to that point, and see what happens. If your income has been zero for almost 2 years, then he WILL have to pay some kind of child support. Deciding now that letting him take full custody of your child is what is in your daughter's best interest to me sounds like exhaustion, desperation, and even maybe depression talking. To me, the idea of giving up my children without a fight to the very end is CRAZY. Sure, I imagine it will be tough, and you will feel depressed and desperate, and hopeless a million times through the process, but cry it out, talk to counselors (if you still have health insurance you don't even need a referral to a psychologist, just look for one in the list of providers and make an appointment, or apply for medi-ca if you don't) and get on track to reclaiming your life and your daughter's back. JUST DON'T GIVE UP YET. Good luck!

Have you called a domestic violence shelter or hotline? This man is an abuser. He is a verbal and emotional abuser. If you can move into a shelter, I know the stay is short but go. They have so many resourses to help you.
You have a Master's in teaching so think outside the box besides school systems many companies are looking for people to work in their training departments who have teaching degrees. Apply to be a nanny, live-in if possible, need to move --got a place.

Good luck and write if you need any more advice.

I know each state's custody and support guidelines are different, but here in MN, 50/50 custoday does NOT mean no child support. Custody (parenting plan) and support are two separate decisions based on many factors. Do some research, find a lawyer, and stand your ground.

I would go with #1 and then make a future plan--no court order is forever. If you get 50% time, then you can file for more when you are on your feet. If you and your daughter fly back to Hawaii tonight (using your parents credit card or whatever), it will take some time before the custody can be sorted out. At least then you will not be in his house under his finances. (I live in Hawaii--I say come home!) I am so sorry this is happening to you.

If you think so poorly about this guy, why the heck would you even consider not fighting for your daughter? Because it's going to be rough until she turns 18? Seriously? I went through hell for my son and I would do it over and over if I had to not to let his father be the primary influence in his life. I cannot relate to you since you think that's an option. It never occurred to me and I don't understand why it would occur to you.

To answer your actual question, yes, of course there are other options. And if you're in L.A., you're going to have to go through mediation anyway, so you'll learn more about what those were.

As for free legal help, I just did a quick google search for "legal aid, Los Angeles and came up with four organizations on the first page. Took less than 30 seconds and very little effort.

Again, I cannot relate.