Advice on Dealing with My 10 Year Old Daughter

I don't have any advice but i read this to get tips too. My 5years olds room is almost always a disater zone... Sometimes taking away stuff helps and the 5 minute timer... how much canyou pick up before the timer goes off? Other times we pile everything onthe bed so we can vacuum. and we only eat in the kitchen...

Dear A.,

I wish I had more time to address this issue with you because I know it strikes a chord for many mothers and I suspect that mothers have been having this discussion since the beginning of time, and will continue to have it as long as there are children.

Usually when I respond to questions I have my therapist hat on, but as a mother of a now 22 year old, I spent many years trying to win this battle. So my answer is going to come from my "mom" and "therapist" parts.

I think that you've already received some great ideas from the other moms on the list. Some of them had good results to what they tried and others did not, and I wondered about this. I think that much depends on the child and much depends on the mother. So, I would like to say a few things and simply pose a few questions.

First, (my personal mantra).... Choose your battles carefully. Too often something that starts out as a simple request and "reasonable expectation" on our parts turns into a power struggle that takes on a life of its own.

Ask yourself, "Why is it so important to me that my daughter clean her room and not put her things on the floor?" Is it simply that you are trying to "teach" her to be responsible and care for her things, which seems like a reasonable value to an adult, but may not yet be a "value" to a ten year old?

Is her refusal (or perhaps inability) to clean up and be more organized triggering something in you? Are you taking it personally as an expression of lack of respect, or not caring about your feelings? Is it making you feel powerless and inadequate because you truly believe that a 10 year old child should be able to perform this task? Would her room being neat make you feel better in some way? I think it's important to examine our own needs, values and expectations before we embark on a battle that may be difficult to win, without causing a lot of family strife and impacting on our relationship with our child, and on our ability to enjoy the time we have together.

Perhaps giving your daughter ultimatums, taking things away, or throwing things out may eventually cause you to WIN the battle, but at what cost? It's not black and white. Sometimes this works fairly well and quickly for some kids, without negative consequences. As some of the mothers mentioned, it only took one time and the child knew she meant business and things changed. And all the mothers are right in advising that you must be consistent and not back down, even when it's painful to see your child so unhappy.

But what if this approach doesn't work? How frustrated, angry, helpless, powerless and "inadequate" will you feel then? And how will this affect your daughter's sense of feeling loved and respected? Her brain is not fully developed yet. You may KNOW how much you love her, but she may experience all this differently. She may FEEL (this is the important word here), unloved, not respected, and "not good enough". Whether she is listening to you or not, please don't assume that this battle is not having an emotional effect on her. Your anger and frustration and disapproval can have a long-lasting effect on how she feels about herself, and, even though YOU know that her feelings are not correct .... she may experience this as "conditional" love.... the unconscious belief becomes, "I am lovable IF, or WHEN I please others.

Okay, now let me put on my "mom" hat. I went through this struggle with my son for years. I am extremely neat and orderly and it boggled my mind that my son's room looked like a bomb had exploded. It made me uncomfortable, angry, frustrated..... all the things I mentioned above. I shifted back and forth in my feelings and tried everything I could think of. My son was perfectly happy in his mess.

Yes, there was the small, rational part that sounded like you.... that he "should" be able to keep his room neater, that it was my job to teach, and expect him to be somewhat responsible; that other kids could do it, etc., but more often my behavior and reactions were directly connected to all the mixed emotions the situation stirred up in me. "He doesn't respect me", "he doesn't care about what's important to me", " I dedicate my life to him, do everything for him, sacrifice for him, buy him things he wants, focus my existence on his well-being..... so why can't he just do this one thing for me?" I felt unappreciated and taken for granted when I got into this frame of mind. Sound familiar?

I went back and forth from just giving up and letting his room be a disaster, to periodically spending 2 days organizing and cleaning his room. A place for everything. I organized his papers and various things in labeled file cabinets, plastic containers, etc. When I was through his room could have been in a magazine. I would feel so pleased with myself and the results. Then I'd proudly take him on a tour of his room, showing him where everything was, and how everything was labeled, and told him how easy it would be now if he just put each thing away, where it belonged, when he was through with it; and "isn't this great?", and, "don't you just love how nice your room is now?"

Guess what? (I have to giggle as I remember this?) Within no time the room was a mess again. When I look back I can only regret all the battles we had about his room. How sad to have wasted that much time and energy on something so insignificant. I remember Dr. Phil once saying that he couldn't even remember whether or not his 16 year old son had carpeting in his room because it had been so long since he'd been able to see the floor. If your daughter doesn't mind living like that, why should it cause you so much grief?

What if you found out tomorrow that she had a terminal illness? How important would the state of her room be? What if you suddenly lost her tomorrow to a tragic accident? How would you feel about all the time wasted arguing about her room. A wonderful psychologist spoke at my son's HS about all the pressure parents put on their kids in the effort to make sure that they get into the right college; at the expense of the relationship between them and their children. The family can become a battleground and pressure cooker as parents hassle, pressure, demand, threaten and whatever else to get their kids to focus on their grades and on their future (very few teens can see past the present). We look at the kids that are future oriented and focused on grades and college and we wish our kids could be like that; and we feel dissatisfied, and we believe that we only have "their best interest" in our hearts. Only they are feeling judged, disliked, inadequate, not good enough, etc., because we are clearly not happy with who they are.

This psychologist talked about all the unhappy homes when kids are in HS, and then said the unthinkable.... so what if your kid goes to a community college for two years? GASP! UNTHINKABLE! Right? But he said he knew many kids who started out like that and ended up transferring to a great college and doing very well. Isn't the most important thing your relationship with your child and quality of your family life?

So, to bring this "short" response to a close.... besides this battle over the clean and neat room, everything else in our family ran smoothly and we have always had a wonderful relationship with our son. He's 22 now and he just graduated from NYU. We talk all the time, see one another frequently and I have the utmost love and respect for him.

You'll be amused to know that while he lived at college, his side of his dorm room always looked like a bomb exploded and sometimes this annoyed his roommates. But he recently moved into his first apartment and guess what? Somewhere a seed was planted all those years ago. He is taking such pleasure and pride in creating his own personal space; calling me every week asking me about paint colors and kitchen utensils and various other things that HE now WANTS to learn about. Everything is neat and clean, and when I was visiting him recently, he kept reminding me not to walk on his new (3 ft. round) carpet in his room, unless I took my shoes off!!!!
What went through my mind was the saying, "We make plans, and God laughs."

One final note: there is so much talk these days about ADD, and it is so over diagnosed and used to explain behavior that parents and teacher are impatient with. But sometimes many of us, children and adults alike, do actually have a part of our frontal brain that under functions and makes it very difficult for us to function in certain areas of our lives, like being organized and neat.

So, my suggestion is to really think about this situation, and choose your battle. Figure out what is really crucial to you, like maybe all food MUST be brought back to the kitchen, or dirty clothes must be put in a basket because cleanliness is important. Tell her that if food is left in her room then she will not be allowed to eat in her room. Tell her that when you do the laundry, you will only wash the clothes that are in the basket. (Stick to your guns, but it's not about spite or threatening). It's about teaching consequences because you do have the right to make the rules. Once she finds that the shirt or jeans that she was planning to wear hasn't been washed, she may begin to make new choices that help her get what SHE wants. It' crucial that you keep YOUR emotions out of it. This is not punishment. We know that punishment is the least helpful way in helping people change their behavior.

Let your daughter know a few days in advance that on Thursday you are going to dust or vacuum her room and give her a CHOICE. She can either clear her things out of the way, or tell her that you will gather everything up and put it in a box so you can get to the carpet and furniture. You don't have to take it away from her and you don't have to feel spiteful or angry.

Just explain that your time is important and that it is not your responsibility to organize her things just so you can clean. So everything will be in a pile in that box. Then perhaps when she's looking for something, you can calmly say that it is probably in the box that you put everything in when you had to vacuum. She will either become really frustrated by having to search through the box, and PERHAPS begin to want to take more control of her room, or, it may not bother her, and that's just how it will go for a while. Any YOU, mom, can pull your emotions out of it. She's being who she is. You are respecting her, but also giving the message that you respect yourself, and that you will not use your valuable time cleaning and organizing her room, because if it's not important to her, then it shouldn't be more important to you. And now you can just enjoy your relationship.

And finally, if she never learns to be neat, well, so what? As long as she grows up kind, and honest and sensitive, and caring and respectful of others; and emotionally healthy, with a really great sense of self-esteem, then you've done your job and prepared her to function in the world. (and be grateful that your other children are better able to clean up... .but please don't every compare because she'll LEARN that, " I'm not as good as...." and she'll carry this belief into her adulthood and into the outside world).

PS: She's only ten, and not anywhere near finished growing and developing; socially, emotionally, intellectually. Sit back and watch, with love and pride, as your wonderful daughter unfolds into the person she will become.

Good luck! Always keep your sense of humor.

V. S. LICSW ( and mother of the most wonderful 22 year old son in the world!)

Hi A...........God bless you honey and your husband for the " stickablility" !!
This may seem extreme but you are @ extreme measures. I would remove everything from her room but the essentials: bed,bureau,light,nightstand and a rug if you have hard woood floors. None of us deserves what we have and she lives in her Mom and Dad's home and it is a privilege. Rewarding her for bad behaviour only exaserbates the problem. She needs to realise she is always loved but not liked for her actions and the concequences for her actions have been dealt with.
I have six grown children and lots of " grand children ". Five daughters and a son. My girls thought I was tough but they are laying down the same principles I did and are very thankful I didn't let them " get away with it ".

Hang tough girl they will be grown before you know it and it will be a topic of conversation one day that you will both laugh @ believe it or not.

Blessings to you, P.

It sounds to me that everything going on in your household is completely normal. We as mothers tend to worry way too much about our children's behaviors and if we can classify them as something troublesome or not. A lot of this needless worry unfortunately stems from our view of other children, parents and how we think they all are or live. But remind yourself always that things are NEVER as they appear. You may see a child at the same age as your daughter that appears as if they possess all of the qualities you think yours should have..and the same holds true with our views of other mothers and what they display outwardly to everyone else. Often it may appear to us that everyone BUT us has everything together and perfect when that is never the case. If only we all had the ability to peek in on others lives behind closed doors..I bet we'd be relieved to see that others go through much of the same.

I have done many things as a mother that others may view as incorrect. Yes, sometimes they are right too but it is a learning process for us all no matter how many kids we have and how many times we've gone through the milestones of our childrens growth. Your experineces as a mother with your 1st child will never be the same as with the 2nd and 3rd and so forth. While it is extremely difficult, try not to compare your daughters behavior at age 10 with your 1st daughters behavior at that age. We are our own individuals and trust me when I tell you that our children are much smarter and way more aware than we ever give them credit.
I say, embrace your daughters differences from others and yes, even from you. It really helps to compartmentalize your feelings and expectations. Expectations are the key to keeping the peace. Lower them immediately. Don't expect your daughter to understand how important cleaning her room is to you. Or knowing that the special necklace/barette you bought her should not be thrown on the floor because it is disrespectful to you. Everything and every emotion you plug into this scenario can be traced back to YOU..and your feelings and how it affects you etc. Often, we tend to place too much emphasis on ourselves and take every liitle thing our children do, personally. It is NOT personal. Thinking this way has helped me tremendously.
You have a child that does not like to do things the way that you do. While it is super frustrating, it isn't necessarily wrong. I have only recently been able to sit down with my 16 year old son and discuss with him the things that bother me. I have in turn, asked him to do the same but the rule is for everything he asks of me or tells me what I do that bothers him, I then get to tell him one too. No, this doesn't immediately resolve everything between us but it's a start and an place that I can feel comfortable falling back on. This then forces him to accept some responsibility for his actions because I have made him keenly aware of some things that bother me and if he then still chooses to do them..then he has to accept the feelings I will then have as a result. There is no one answer to make things work for you and maybe some of the suggestions you have gotten may work but ultimately when you learn to accept things for what they are and your daughter for who she is, instead of who she isn't, then things will at least smooth out a bit.We all expect our kids to respect us but few are willing to put in the time to have our kids want to instead of having to. This will all work out for you. Just try to alter the way you look at things instead of having your daughter do it. We are the adults that have already gone through this and have lived long enough to know the difference.

I am a very messy person. I still throw clothes on the floor as an adult. It doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the things that I have, which is how I think it sometimes felt to my parents. I just don't seem to have that part of the brain that keeps everything in its "home." What finally worked for my mom was just insisting that my door was closed. Then she didn't have to fight with me about the mess, and she didn't have to see it. If I lost something, she wouldn't help me find it. It didn't make me any neater, but took a whole lot of tension out of our relationship. If she doesn't want to bring her dirty clothes downstairs, teach her how to do laundry and tell her she can do it on her own schedule. It might take her a little while to get her act together, but I bet ultimately it will work out better for you both.

OMG..... I feel like your talking about my daughter she is 10 and acts the exact same way, heaven forbid we ask her to help clean the yard or anything. She also will lie right to my face when I know she had done something. So aggravating. She is my oldest, however her step dad has a daughter from his 1st marriage and she is 14.
I wish I could give you some advise but like you I've tried about everything and it all works for a short then she is back to her old ways.
Best of Luck,
K

I have a sister who was always very messy, and as an adult the only way she keeps her house clean is by owning the bare essentials. My mom took all of her stuff away once; she just got furious and still didn't keep her room clean (and never got most of her stuff back). I think it might have worked if my mother had discussed it with her beforehand and had worked out a system for her to earn things back like Rebecca M suggested. The book "Positive Parenting" by Glenn Latham is good at explaining how to discuss consequences with a child this age in advance. My daughter is barely getting old enuogh to start using this method, but I've seen it used on older children to great effect and your library should have a copy so you don't have to go buy the book.

I liked the way Rebecca M helped her daughter clean out her room and they had a clear system for getting belongings back. I would take it one step further by establishing a clear place for each belonging to go once your daughter earns it back, complete with labeled containers - if she has trouble keeping her room clean she probably is not a natural organizer. Try to keep things positive (explain that you're helping her keep her room and belongings nice) rather than sounding punitive.

Have her earn things back very gradually, starting with those objects she personally values the most (let her choose). Then she has to keep those things put away for a few days before she gets the next thing. Anything that is left out gets taken back and she has to earn it back all over.

Good luck!

It sounds like there is more going on than just a normal not wanting to clean her room. You said you have had issues with her since pre-k? What kind of issues? My child also REFUSES to clean especailly his room- which he trashes often in temper tantrums. He's been dx'd with disruptive behavior disorder. Is there a possibility that your daughter might have something like that going on? ADHD makes it VERY difficult to be organized and is very overwhelming when looking at a messy room. Oppositional Defiant Disorder causes a child to say no to just about anything. Please email me privately if you want to talk more about this. I am sorry I don't really have much advice for you as I am still figuring it out myself - although I am reading a book called "Your Defiant Child" and it sounds like the program would work well if only I could get my motivation going enough to start it!

As a mom, I can totally understand the frustration you must feel. I don't really have any advice, but I would just caution you not to let her messy room cause a rift between you two.

I have a good friend who was constantly at odds with her mother in Middle and High School b/c her mom was too controlling. My friend was/is the type who, when she needed something from a drawer, would take the whole drawer out, dump it, and just leave everything there on the floor. Her mom also compared her to her younger "perfect" sister, which didn't help. She and her mom never saw eye to eye, and she ended up getting thrown out at age 17 and essentially being homeless (going from friend's house to house) until she was able to put herself through college. She and her mom are slowly starting to rebuild their relationship, but it's been a painful process for her. A messy room and non-traditional outfits are trivial things compared to the years of pain they caused.

This story may not apply to you and your daughter whatsoever, but it came to mind when I read your message, so I thought I'd share it.

I would try letting her accept the natural consequences of her actions. Rather than argue with her, just let her wear dirty clothes, sleep on the floor, get frustrated that she can't find things. Don't say, "I told you so." Just let her experience her world for what it is.

I wish you the best.

This grandmother has been there to the point of opening an upstairs window and chucking all of the "stuff" out on the lawn. That turned into a family joke as the daughters loaded up blankets, toted it all upstairs and dumped it on the floor again. A friend recounted similar struggles with his son. Their house burned, the firemen came and tarped the personal belongings on the floor and the messy son saved all his belongings.
I really think this is all about control. Everyone needs choices and the more stuff we have to care for the more difficult it is to make decisions. Why are you buying your daughter "stuff." If she earns it and chooses it, then she has the right to pass it on or dispose of it. My granddaughter, age 10, has similar struggles. Yet she's happy cleaning the horse stalls or cleaning and organizing my cupboard. You say "sleep in her bed with four children." Does your daughter have time alone? Opportunity to make choices for herself? Ways to earn what she wants? Places for things so she can organize? Why is sleeping on the floor in family space her choice?
Good luck, Mom. We learn as we go.

Updated

This grandmother has been there to the point of opening an upstairs window and chucking all of the "stuff" out on the lawn. That turned into a family joke as the daughters loaded up blankets, toted it all upstairs and dumped it on the floor again. A friend recounted similar struggles with his son. Their house burned, the firemen came and tarped the personal belongings on the floor and the messy son saved all his belongings.
I really think this is all about control. Everyone needs choices and the more stuff we have to care for the more difficult it is to make decisions. Why are you buying your daughter "stuff." If she earns it and chooses it, then she has the right to pass it on or dispose of it. My granddaughter, age 10, has similar struggles. Yet she's happy cleaning the horse stalls or cleaning and organizing my cupboard. You say "sleep in her bed with four children." Does your daughter have time alone? Opportunity to make choices for herself? Ways to earn what she wants? Places for things so she can organize? Why is sleeping on the floor in family space her choice?
Good luck, Mom. We learn as we go. Grandma C

In my opinion, once you start taking things away that really, really mean something to her, and be consistent ALL the time, she will start to care. I betcha if you let her sleep on the floor for a few nights, she will want to clean the clothes off of her bed. Just be consistent and dont buy anything new until she starts to realize that she is not in control here. Good luck!

T., 34 yo married WAHM doing home daycare and Mom of 3 ages 7, almost 5, and 2.

In the words of Doctor Phil...toughen up. I watched an episode where he said to take everything out of the kids room...everything... except a pillow and blanket and reward good behavior by giving one thing back each day of good behavior. And taking away for bad. We did it when our son was acting like a spoiled rotten brat. It worked wonders, was it hard? oh yeah. But anything with a good outcome is hard. Try it, stick to it, she'll smarten up..I guarantee it. Let her kick and scream, she'll stop when she wants her stuff back. Good luck.

A.-
I want to reccomend a book for you. It is old, but it will work. My mother told me the book saved me when I was an adolescent. It is called P.E.T, Parent Effectiveness Training. It teaches you how to talk to your pre-teens and teens.
My other guess is that there is something else going on with her. I would like to suggest takeing a special day for just you and her. Make a habbit of it once a month or twice a month. Also, is she has not "become a woman" yet, she may be close, hormones could be playing a roll here.

I really hope it works out for you.

Hello,
I was pretty lazy as a child when it came to cleaning my room and now have a 13 year old that pulls the same stuff. My mother, and now me, used to put everything in one large pile in the center of the room. A time limit was place on the cleaning of the pile. If it wasn't done then everything went into the trash. It worked for me, I'm a neat nick now. O and my 13 year old has gotten better. When I threaten to clean her room she gets off her butt and does it with lots of complaints.

Hi A.,
I thought you were talking about my 8 year old son there for a minute lol. It is super frustrating!!! I tried making a chores chart at the beginning of the summer for my son....yeah, that lasted a week. So now, whenever we go to the store and he wants something I say,"hmm if you did your chores and earned your allowance then you'd probably have enough to buy that." I told him I'm not buying him anything else until he starts taking care of the things he has. So, I guess I don't have any real advice because I haven't found anything that's worked yet. As hard as it is, I think some of the laziness Is in their make up as a person but hopefully someday when they start working and know what it's like to work for what they have, they'll take more pride in their belongings!!
Good luck!

Hi A.,
A lot of people are adressing your question as if you were discussing only a messy room, I think don't think that is what you're saying. I agree with the advice to toughen up and to get into therapy, either just her or parent/child therapy. I definitely agree with you that your daughter has to learn early on to appreciate her good fortune, that she mustn't feel entitled to everything, and that she has to work for things and collaborate at home. Being stubborn is one thing, but it seems she's gone beyond that. Likewise, lying to you is inexcusable. I don't think this should be excused as normal ten-year-old girl behaviour, as some have suggested. Trust your instincts and take control of this situation now, before it gets worse. Counselling will help, I think, and tough love. Good luck!

I have a "spirited" daughter as well. She often has a diff. time being told what to do and can often have over the top responses (rude behavior, a tantrum etc.). Early on, I noticed that she had big feelings and a low thresh hold for frustration. I had my daughter evaluated by early intervention and they found some sensitivities (Sensory int. issues). I found a great child therapist for her which was so helpful!!! (for both of us).
Your daughter sounds like she might have some issues that make it more difficult for her to cooperate and cause her to react in immature, inappropriate ways (I don't agree with one response that said that this is all normal behavior). I would highly recommend finding a good therapist for your daughter to talk with. The therapist will also be able to help you figure out effective strategies for dealing with her behavior.
I think as parents we feel like we are failing when we ask for outside help. I have certainly discovered how essential and helpful it is (for everyone) to at times seek the help and support of a professional.
Good luck!

Hi A.,
I'm reading and re-reading your letter. What I'm getting is your 10 year old was the baby for six years, maybe even spoiled in the process and now she is acting out to get the attention you are trying to give to your younger children. Perhaps you need to give her some alone time and have a heart to heart talk with her.

Perhaps giving each some kind of responsibilities in the household on a weekly basis, then reward each with an allowance of some sort for a job well done.

A., do you watch the nanny show on tv? Perhaps you could p/u some tips from the show.

You and your family are in my prayers
M.

Oh my goodness... I was reading this this morning and thought maybe I had spaced the day and had written something about my own 10 yr old daughter. Sadly I dont have much advice. I keep sending her to her room to clean it. One day I took EVERYTHING out of her room including the furniture. She and I scrubbed it and the furniture went back in. She had exactly enough clothes for one week...well 5 days. There was nothing else in her room. She had to earn it back day by day. If it stayed clean and her clothes were picked up after three days she got back her clock radio which is currently the most important thing. After each three day interval she got more things in her room. There are days when it still gets messy but she cleans up better now. She has never cared about toys or money so those usual bribes/rewards dont work. Taking away tv and her privilege to call her friends works a little.
Good luck

oh my, you do have your hands full. a few suggestions...by the age of 10 your daughter should be capable of picking up her own room. maybe not 'cleaning' but definitely putting things where they belong. my kids would both have their rooms messier than i would have liked. rather than beating myself up over it and argueing with them, i closed the door. :) then i would give them a few days warning to when i was coming in to vacumn etc , by which time their floor had to picked up or else it was going in the trash. tricky part with this is you must stick to your word!!
as for doing things you ask her to do...i, too, had run into this problem but only briefly. my kids did not have routine chores to do, other than picking up their own stuff around the house, putting dirty dishes in the dishwasher, dirty laundry in the hamper, etc. so when i did need their help with something i would ask. if they gave me some reason/excuse why they couldn't/wouldn't do it then i would tell them ok, no problem, but to remember, and this is the key part, to remember that the next time they asked me for something that i might also say no. again, you must be prepared to stick to your word!! i remember one instance my son didn't do what i asked. a few weeks later he needed a ride to a party. guess what? i said no, that i didn't feel like driving that day. he didn't go to the party, was quite upset with me over it too. have to admit it was hard for me to say no, to watch him being upset and missing the fun but i didn't give in. it only took that one time for him to realize i meant business. that we have to help each other. that we all have choices and have to live with the consequences of those choices.
now, regarding your buying her new things only to find them almost immediately on the floor and not being taken care of...i would say for you to stop buying those things. of course, you need to buy the basics but you do not have to buy the little extra things, that we all know kids love. not until you see she can take care of them. so if the new barrette ends up on the floor, then no more barrettes, etc etc.
some kids think that as their parents, we 'owe' them this and that. well, we don't!! it's give and take, it's not all about one individual, whoever that might be.
good luck. also remember, she's coming up on that age when the hormones start kicking in. yuck! not the easiest time. i remember going thru about a year and a half with each of mine where i would look at them, thinking...i love you with all my heart, but i don't like you so much right now. fortunately, as i said, it was about a year and a half and then it was over.