Advice on Very Grouchy, Immature 8 Year Old?

Updated on October 02, 2018
R.J. asks from Palm Harbor, FL
10 answers

Our youngest son just turned 8.
He is extremely creative, imaginative, silly and can be the sweetest thing in the world.
But he also tends to be very immature, argumentative and just down right nasty at times. Which I guess pertains to most kids, right?

Our problems for quite awhile have been things such as after school when he has homework and reading to do, he gets very nasty about it. Saying he's not going to do it, he hates reading etc. We tell him school is important, and try to make it fun. We have offered to go purchase books about things he is interested in, so he'll enjoy it more. He'll still say no. They have a reading log that we are supposed to fill out after reading 20 minutes and he'll say he's not doing it. We have tried the approach that we will let his teacher know he chose to not do it (natural consequences) and he doesn't flinch!
He's in 2nd grade and is one of the oldest in his class, but still seems to lack maturity compared to his peers, his teacher last year said the same thing. He says things like so and so is always staring at me, or following me, or trying to play with me. We talk about how he should try and be kind, even when it's hard, and maybe these kids just want to be friends and what are some good things about these kids you can tell us. And usually he can't come up with anything. And say, I'm going to tell them to stop looking at me, following me etc..
His older brother is 10, and they fight all the time, which I also know is normal, but the younger one has become fixated on this "last touch game", which his brother wants no part of. But he constantly finds ways to run up and touch him, then run off and say he got the last touch. Its making us all nuts. And his big bro says at school sometimes he'll try to throw things like mulch at him and say he got the last touch. I told his brother next time, go to a teacher and let them know. We have given him consequences for doing this, and tell him repeatedly to keep his hands to himself, but he just continues. He even says things to us like, I don't have to listen to you, or quit talking to me, I don't care etc......
We have been very careful (my husband and I) to respond positively, no matter how frustrated we feel, but it doesn't seem to have any effect. We'll say how nasty words hurt feelings and we need to talk to each other with respect and kindness, and he'll say he doesn't have to.....
I know this a long rant, and I'm sure I'm leaving things out, but I'm just fried. As I said, he can also be the sweetest boy ever, but it seems like the moody, grouchy side comes through a lot more. And when I talk with him and ask, can you tell me why you're mad? Why are you talking to us this way, he'll say because he can, then say, I don't want to talk about it anymore. Nothing has changed for him as far as school, home, family etc. He's always been a moodier child, and my mom laughs and says he genetically picked up from her brothers, but it's making us crazy!
I am feeling as though maybe we need some outside help? I just don't know what else to do. It's setting a negative tone and I feel like I need to walk on eggshells which is ridiculous.
Any insight, personal experience would be very appreciated!

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E.B.

answers from Honolulu on

My daughter has been to counselors, therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, at various times due to her anxiety, depression, and because of her complicated medical diagnoses, so I will share a couple of things that I noticed in your post, (as a parent, of course, not as a professional).

The first thing I noticed is that you said you "tried the approach" of letting the teacher know that that your son refused to do homework. But you didn't say how you approached that, and whether you actually did it. What we have been taught in counseling sessions is that there has to be a clear path and it must be followed. Often, parents set out ridiculous consequences, like saying to the kid that if the kid doesn't come out of the candy aisle in the grocery store that the parent is leaving the store and driving away. The parent isn't going to actually abandon the kid. Or they yell in anger "you're grounded forever". You must give careful thought to your plan, like employee rules at a job (if you violate this safety rule you will be immediately terminated, or you will be reported at once to the supervisor), and you must be clear and you must make sure your child knows that this rule will be followed. Be prepared to follow up on whatever you decide. It can't be an approach, it has to be a clearly laid-out plan.

First, you establish the home rule, at a quiet, calm moment. "Your homework needs to be completed on time, before [supper, bedtime, 5:00 pm, going out to play, watching tv, whatever you establish that works for your family]." You make sure the circumstances in your home work for doing homework (a quiet place, a neat desk, the kitchen table, no loud music or tv to distract, etc). You inform the child of the consequences. "You won't be able to [watch tv, play, etc]. You won't be punished for not being able to do work you don't understand (a young child should not be punished if his handwriting is shaky, or if he really tried to spell "occasion" but spelled it "ocassion", for example), but you will have a punishment if you refuse to try. You will have certain punishments if you refuse to do what is expected of you, you'll lose certain privileges at home, and your teacher will be told that you refuse to cooperate with her". And then once the path is clearly laid out and the child understands, you follow the path. You don't say "I will tell the teacher" and then the next day you say "I promise I'm going to tell your teacher" and this goes on for several days. You say it once, clearly and simply, and then that's that. Let those natural consequences happen. It's helpful sometimes to write out a chart, listing expectations, rules, and the punishment.

And after you're done telling your child the plan and the punishment, if he looks you in the eye and says "I'm not doing it", then you proceed right to the punishment. Remove all video controllers. Password protect the wi-fi. Call the teacher and schedule a meeting. But remain very very calm. Don't appear agitated, sad, angry, or emotional.

Another thing I noticed is that you ask your son why he's angry, ask him to explain his feelings or actions. Now, sometimes, people know precisely why they did what they did, but that's not always the case. Picture a woman who's pregnant, who all of a sudden bursts into tears over nothing, and her partner says "why are you crying?" and the woman just cries harder and says "I don't know" and the partner says "did I do something to upset you" and the woman cries harder, realizing somewhere down inside that the partner was nothing but kind and attentive, but she just is bawling her eyes out for no logical reason. It's hormones, or just a mysterious part of pregnancy.

I write that to say that sometimes, a kid, or a teen, or an adult, struggles with behavior or feelings or responses that they legitimately cannot justify or explain. Asking the child to explain sometimes makes things worse, or makes the child more confused.

A counselor or psychiatrist can help, can provide tools to unlock these behaviors. And I'm not talking about medications. My daughter went through a period of time that was driving my husband and me absolutely bonkers. It was a thing that she was fixated on, that was of no consequences whatsoever. but it enraged her to the point where she would hit and kick and scream and damage things and herself (it was a particular thing in the car which turned off automatically when the engine shut off but she would fly into an uncontrollable rage if whoever was driving didn't turn it off manually). We ended up scheduling a joint session with the counselor, and we all spoke our piece. The counselor gave our daughter some good questions to ask herself, and gave my husband and I some good tools for dealing with this particular situation. Having our daughter be accountable to a third person (the counselor) and having these questions to ask herself when she felt the rage boiling up because the driver let the thing turn off automatically, helped put the whole thing into perspective and she stopped the behavior, after a few sessions.

I want to assure you that even the most loving, attentive, intelligent parents can need a helper when faced with a difficult child. Our first child was healthy, happy, and we faced only the typical new-parent things. Then came our daughter and we questioned everything we had ever known or done. We enlisted help from professionals. Yes, today she takes antidepressant and anti-anxiety meds, but she has not been over-medicated. They are tools in the toolbox that she (and we) need.

I encourage you to get your child to a child psychiatrist. Make it positive. "Honey, sometimes you have trouble with other kids, thinking that they're following you or looking at you, and sometimes it seems that you are having some problems with homework. We're going to talk to a person who can help you feel less stressed." And talk to a professional yourself. Tell that person that you need some tools, some help, being the most effective parent you can be to a child who presents some difficulties. A counselor, therapist, or psychologist won't prescribe medications, and that should not be your first goal. If that person realizes that perhaps a med might help, they will suggest a psychiatrist.

It doesn't mean you're not effective, not loving, not smart, not experienced - it simply means that you have a child who may need a different parenting technique, or some support, or the insight of a professional. And the best parents are the ones who realize that they don't have all the answers, and are willing to enlist someone to come alongside to help if the situation warrants that.

8 moms found this helpful

T.S.

answers from San Francisco on

I would start with the school psychologist. When I worked in first grade this is where we started with "troubled" kids, including my own. S/he can observe your son in the classroom and on the playground which is extremely helpful.
Beyond that you may want to get a referral for a family or child therapist. You can ask around (neighbors, other parents) or get some names from your pediatrician. Your son sounds like he MAY be a little ODD, has this ever been brought up before?
Good luck, I know how challenging these things can be, especially the constant angst among siblings, it's so exhausting and it really can affect the whole family and even your marriage :-(

4 moms found this helpful
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M.6.

answers from New York on

I agree with the posters below, but would like to add my own two cents about "natural consequence." Since your son appears to be somewhat immature, I don't know that using the teacher as a natural consequence is really a good avenue. It is delayed insofar as he won't get the consequence until later (which can be hard for an immature mind to understand) AND that leaves the teacher to deal with his lack of maturity when he acts out due to her having to institute the consequence.

There are plenty of "natural consequences" that you can have at home - and should. Don't want to do homework? Ok, no TV/video game time - I'd equal the amount of time spent on homework as that on gaming. So if he reads for 20 minutes, he gets 20 minutes of game time. In other words, HE is deciding on how much game time he gets, not you. As far as the "last touch" thing, I'd institute a consequence, but not tied to a reward he has already earned, so if he did the 20 minutes of reading, DON'T take away the game time he earned for last touch violation. So a violation could be 15 minutes off of bedtime for the night for each violation. I'd leave school separate since that could set each of the boys up against either other and just reinforces tattling. Your older son needs to report bad behaviors at school to the school, not to you.

In any event, do NOT walk around eggshells around him. I know it seems like the easy way to keep the peace, but it is a bad habit to start, it isn't fair to the other family members, and it sets your son up for failure in a world where NO one else is going to do it. There should be no yelling, cajoling, begging, bargaining, on your end. Nothing. If he doesn't want to get his stuff done, then he pays the consequence. If the consequence is exactly the same, no matter what, every single time, he will get it eventually.

While I think involving a therapist MIGHT be a good idea, I'd also be hesitant to bring in a party who may offer your son excuses for his behaviors. I think I'd start with the school first. Ask the teacher if based on his/her experience, does she feel that doing an evaluation through the school is a good idea. If he/she doesn't think that the concerns are enough to warrant that, maybe try the idea I suggested and see if providing more structure and concrete consequences will solve some of the issues. If not, you could certainly seek professional help in the Spring (you'd have to do this for at least 3 months CONSISTENTLY if not 6 months, to know if it is truly helping).

Good luck!

3 moms found this helpful

C.T.

answers from Santa Fe on

I have a feeling a big part of this is his personality, but also maturity which he will outgrow. I would make a rule about reading every day. Pick a time that is consistent...ours is homework time after dinner because we eat a pretty early dinner. No screen time (video games, movies, tv shows, ipad games, or whatever you have at your house) or playing with friends or playing in general until he has done his reading each day. If he refuses he may go to his room till bedtime. He may be like our son was at this age and have a complete meltdown and still refuse...but the boredom of being in his room till bedtime each day will make him come around. We had to do this and yes, our son fought us on it. But as he got older he knew we would never give in and eventually it just became habit. So, tell him no x till he does y. This is the new house rule. Meanwhile, you just stay calm and chill and let him decide if he is going to do it or not. Our son was really impossible at this age and hated not getting his way...so much so that he was constantly getting consequences and fighting us on things (normal things in life...do your homework, time for a shower/bath, time for school, etc). We did end up having him see a therapist off and on for a couple years when he was in 4th and 5th grade and it really helped. The therapist had him focus on taking responsibility for himself and doing the right thing...him being in charge of himself. We finally saw him being more mature about things starting in 6th grade. Also, later when my son was age 12 he told me he remembered when he used to fight and argue with us on everything and at the time he felt like he would rather die than give in to us. !!! I think his younger brain was just really ornery and immature. He's a great teenager now. Hang in there. PS - Once a week I would go get a huge pile of really interesting books at the library for him to choose from. Graphic novels, how to books, books on greek myths, anything that looks cool! At that age our son loved graphic novels and comics. He read all the Big Nate books, Calvin and Hobbes, the Arty Farty books, the Amulet series, Ook and Gluk, Garfield, Sidekicks, Dog Man, etc. Our library has a graphic novel section and I think we checked out every book. No kid can resist Calvin and Hobbes.

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D..

answers from Miami on

I am relieved to see your last paragraph. I honestly think that you do need some help. If he continues to be behind the 8 ball in maturity, he'll hit preteens in a bad way and your lives will always be a drama. Plus, he wont be able to have friends due to his behavior.

Talk to your pediatrician and ask for a referral.

2 moms found this helpful

B.C.

answers from Norfolk on

A therapist is a good idea.
In the mean time he seems to want to get attention and he doesn't care what kind of attention is it.
Annoying big brother needs to stop - it's not fair to big brother.
While they are not that far apart in age they seem to be on completely different maturity levels.
Keep them apart as much as possible.
The minute the annoying starts - the offender can go to his room.
(This works both ways in case big brother thinks he can get in on this action).
They need to spend time with their separate friends.
While one is on a play date the other can have his own friends over.

Often when anyone seems angry for no particular reason some physical activity can go a long way to burning it off.
Consider signing him up for taekwondo.
He can run around a lot and if he acts up there they will have him doing extra laps or pushups.

I wouldn't cave on his not doing his homework.
If he won't do it then he goes to his room - come out for supper - then back to his room until breakfast.
Repeat every single time.
He can start staying after school to finish his homework there.

2 moms found this helpful
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M.G.

answers from Portland on

My husband's family is very high strung, emotional and I find, angry. They make me uncomfortable. I have one son who can be like this. So I think some of it may be genetic. My husband is aware of it in himself, and takes a time out if he gets irritable. My son, when he was young and immature (there's a big developmental leap around age 7 but some kids hit it a little late), was bad. He was 'naughty' and inconsiderate. He could be rude. He is really introverted, and when provoked or tired of people, he would just say what was on his mind, without manners. When he got home from school, he had saved up all that pent up energy from being good all day, and let it out.

The therapist (I saw one for a few sessions to learn how to better parent a kid like this) suggested he have some downtime. Not a time out, but time to be on his own for a while. Don't do homework - let them cool off, separate from siblings, let them eat and play Lego or whatever they enjoy. It's not punishment. It's their time to unwind and become human again.

When they can be kind and respectful (and in my words 'human' but don't say that to them) then they can rejoin the family.

That was and is our rule here. When you're kind and respectful, you can join us. In all things fun and just in general. It's a life lesson too - kids aren't going to have you to play on playground or as friends if you're rude. Role play - if you don't want a kid bugging you, learn a kind way to say No thanks.

If he's bugging his bother, he may be hurt his brother doesn't want to be his friend. That happened in our family. You can't make that happen and some kids lash out when hurt. It's that bully syndrome thing. Some kids, feeling rejected, get ugly. Your son may feel that his brother doesn't like him so he's upset and doesn't know what to do with his feelings. Separate them - his older brother may like him more if he sees less of him. Get them involved in different things. Is your son in activities? Maybe get him doing physical stuff to blow off steam after school.

A therapist just to talk to might be a good idea. My son benefited. He asked to go a few times.

Certainly giving yourself a mom-time out (I took them) when I needed to prevent me from blowing up was good, but giving him time to cool off is crucial. He can rejoin when kind/respectful. I didn't take toys etc. much. I found removing from family was a big deterrent. Kids want to be included. They won't be by peers and that's a natural consequence - may as well learn early if they aren't kind towards others.

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M.B.

answers from Austin on

On the reading, when my grandson was young, we started a rule of he needed to read for 10 minutes to earn 30 minutes of tablet time. The tablet was kept at our house, but we did a lot of the after school care. He has become a stellar reader at this point, and we dropped that requirement after a couple of years. (We started it in 1st grade, I believe, and he is now in 5th grade.) He now LOVES to read, and is reading at or above grade level. He does have other issues (severe ADHD, social issues, etc.) but we did get past the reading issue.

Other behavior issues? He is seeking any attention he can get, whether it is negative or positive. Try to catch him being good, and praise him over that. I work with special needs students, and often use that approach - when someone is doing something I don't really like (but not that big of a deal), I start praising how I really like how so and so is sitting up, doing their work, etc. It is amazing how that often gets the other ones on track.

I agree with one of the other posters, that if he has earned his electronic/video time, don't take that away for infractions of something else.

1 mom found this helpful
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C.C.

answers from New York on

I am sorry that you are dealing with this. I do not always rush to say "therapist" but in this case I will. Here's why I say you should find him a therapist: because 8 is the early years of puberty. The next three to four years will be filled with the onset of hormones and peer pressure (cigarettes, self-harm, etc etc). Also, his physical strength will increase ("throwing mulch" could increase into doing who knows what else).

See if a therapist can help him.

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N.A.

answers from San Diego on

Take him out of his home comfort zone.
Go to a Library one on one with him.

Sit with him and do his work in a public quite place.

Your sons issue is disrespect and following rules.

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