Allowing Your Child to fail...literally...what's Next?

I was you.

I was you the years my ADHD daughter was in 7th-8th grade. The sense of responsibility *I* felt for my daughter's school success or failure was overwhelming and all-consuming.

But I changed, and I will never, ever go back to being the homework police.

I am a good Mom, but I will tell you honestly that what resulted from my over-zealous behavior and anxiety when *I* took on that responsibility was a horrible relationship with my child.

I have not posted on these boards in nearly 6 months because my daughter's mental health declined so much that she is only alive and recovering today by the grace of God. My daughter's story has a happy ending, but our long and dark journey began with this kind of struggle.

Grades are not everything.

Ask yourself, who owns the problem? You are making it YOUR problem, but it is HIS. He has to own it. You have to let it go. You're going to consume yourself with coming up with the perfect incentives and/or consequences for his school work. It isn't healthy for you, or for him.

A wise therapist said something that really impacted me. What's the worst thing that can happen if you back off? He can fail. What does that mean? He has to re-take a class? Repeat a grade? Not go to the school you had envisioned?

What is MUCH worse is what can happen when the parent-child relationship becomes so combative over grades/homework/assignments that your child becomes depressed and no longer feels connected at home. And turns to peers for approval, with any kind of negative behavior because something is so dysfunctional at home.

Now, I check my kids grades only at mid-term and at end of quarter. I don't email teachers asking about this or that. I will never go back to daily logging in and micro-managing. And arguing with my child about what has been supposedly turned in but not recorded yet, etc. Too much instant information can be more of a curse than a blessing. Our parents could not imagine having that kind of data of when we were missing which math assignment on what particular daily assignment or what yesterday's quiz scores was. We had to take it on ourselves.

I hope you find peace and are able to let your son own his school work. It is so hard to see bright and capable kids struggle with attentional issues and get grades below their potential, but it is more important that your son learn to grow up than you manage him through high school. If you carry him through high school, how will he carry himself after high school?

I wish you the best, and I hope that I did not come across too harshly. This just really hit home for me.

Look at it this way , he wanted to try it on his own and it didn't go well. Don't looks at this as a failure but as a learning experience. He is less than 2 years from full adulthood. Instead of forcing your way ask him what he wants. Something like 'Son, I have been really involved in your progress in school and I sense this is frustrating for you. So I stepped back as you asked me to and that didn't work too well. From now on until you graduate what do you need from me so you can succeed?'

In New Yor, we have the BOCES program. It is a Special Ed program and also a vocational program. The kids that are not college bound, usually go there, including my two boys. They attend regular high school 1/2 day and other half at a program they choose, welding, nursing, auto mechanics, carpentry. It is a lifesaver. My boys are now grown with families of their own. One owns his own trucking business and can do carpentry and my other is NYFF. Also does heating, installing burners etc. I think if it is possible and if there is something like that by you, it might just be what he needs. Some kids just hate school and struggle. We always need plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc. college kids cannot find jobs. If you have a vocation u der your belt, you are just about guaranteed to work. Good for his self esteem. He had one failing grade. Not bad IMO for a kid who hates school.

Oh my YES, I have been through something very similar, and so have a few other parents I know.
The thing is, even with all the support and accommodations, the nagging, the punishment/rewards and reminding, it still comes down to whether or not your child, now a young adult, cares enough to do his best.
And really, what is the point?
With my daughter, around junior year, we reached a point where grades were no longer the real issue. Here in California you aren't getting into a state university without at LEAST a 3.0, and for many campuses it's more like a 3.8. She clearly wasn't cutting it, so the focus turned away from grades and to "what are you going to do after high school, what is the plan going forward?" Because my husband and I believe so much in a college education we started looking at realistic alternative paths. It was decided she would go to community college first (and yes, she was part of the decision, all her friends were going to college and she had a desire to do the same.) It was agreed that we would pay for her education, including room and board, as long as she made the effort and got nothing below a C.
She is now nearing the end of her freshman year and is doing fine. Still not a stellar student but figuring out what she wants to major in and learning how to manage her time and responsibilities. I'm actually really proud of her!
I think you need to stop looking so much at his grades and start having some serious conversations about where he plans to be after high school. I mean, look at it this way, even if you stay all over him to keep his grades up what is going to happen when he goes to college? You can't follow him there. He needs to start thinking and planning ahead.
I'm not sure if my daughter will make it through to complete her BA degree, academics are very hard for her. But she may discover a vocational path she enjoys and complete a certificate or degree in a technical field. That's another reason we felt community college was a good place for her to start, so she could have a chance to explore different options.
So start thinking long term for your son. Kids with learning disabilities rarely follow the traditional path, so you're going to need to tweak your traditional way of thinking. Grades are only a small part of what defines success for our kids.

If he's ready to "buy into" some help, then why don't you ask him what kind of help he wants and will accept.

He is at the age where you start passing the baton and making them responsible for themselves. I don't think you should go back to your old pattern. He needs to start figuring out what will work for him. -

So leave it up to him. Remember, he can always start at a junior college. It's amazing what maturity can do to study habits.

Yes, the point where it's no longer an exhausting struggle is when you remove yourself from the battle.

I agree with Jubee.

Is it the completed work that is not acceptable or is this HIS best work?

Have you asked him, "Do you think you did your best job this semester? Do you think you can continue without my help?"

Ask him "Are you prepared to take summer classes to make up these failed classes?"

Ask him "What do you need to do to fix these grades? What is your plan? I am willing to help you, but you will need to tell me how I can help."

I" am always here willing to help, but I will need for you to let me know."

Mom, this is who he is.
I have known my husband since we were in middle school and this is how he has always been. Back then there were no iep or 504's.

My husband is quite brilliant. He can look at almost anything and tell you how and why it works. He can create solutions all day long. But to have to sit down and write it all out, takes a tremendous amount to concentration and control. If the subject is something he has a interest in, he has no problems.

So he has to understand the end point to all of this. And he wants to feel it was worth the stress, and pain it feels to do this tedious work.

What are his interests? What does he think he wants to do as an adult for work? What are his strengths? What does he get excited about? This will guide him and you to figure out what it is he is working towards.

My husbands goal was to move out of his parents home and find a job. He was good with computers, Cameras, and acting.. so he was in an intern program through his high school, working for a local news station.

While there he repaired a "retired" studio camera. The Engineers had it marked to be thrown out. On my husbands spare time, he fixed this camera and got it working. Guess who was offered a job for he summer? Guess who was offered a full time job a year later, beating out College graduates from the big University, because he had the practical experience?

His only regret was that he never was able to go back to college. He says he feels like in his late 20's he was ready for college, late? Yes, but that is when HE had developed his own tried and true strategies to get through the "boring stuff".

If the subject is not something he cares about, it is very difficult to just get through it.

Mom, ADHD is not something he will ever grow out of. His ADHD does not mean he is not intelligent it means his brain is wired differently than the majority of people.

It actually gets worse the older they get, but hopefully he will develop his own strategies to push through it.

My husband was able to finish high school, when he was told as long as he kept a High C or higher, his parents would not interfere. Once the expectation of not all A's and B's were acceptable, he was able to make the B's.. It had just been too much pressure. They took that away and he was able to do this. When he took the SAT he actually tested high. Even though his grades had not been that great.

My husband was accepted to college, but he was sent to a HUGE University. He should have applied to smaller colleges, but again this was a long time ago and we did not understand what he needed.

You are your sons advocate. He needs you to see the good things he does and his strengths. You need to be aware of his weaknesses and let him, know you are aware those subjects / tasks are hard, but if he can just push though it, it will end quicker.

I am sending you strength.

I see nothing wrong with B and C grades. Heck, D is still passing! I also see nothing wrong with saying, "If you don't do your work, you don't get to do xyz."

I would only check the grades on line. No more emailing or calling the teacher. He's old enough to be responsible to turn in his work on time. If the teacher is late in posting a grade, too bad, so sad.

I would sit him down and talk to him about it. School and failure IS an option. Talk to him about not meeting his graduation requirements and summer school. Seriously, you need to let him fail, even if that means he repeats a whole year. So what?

Oh Man, wrote a book & since I still don't know how to copy/paste, etc....LOST it all!!

My oldest daughter is 17, a HS Senior, has ADHD with "Asperger's Social Traits", but not Autism, according to her doctors. Homework, Grades, we've had lots of wars. But not now.

For years, I'd been doing the mirco-managing, nagging, privileges removed until grades up, etc. Sometimes it would work for a while, but then her grades would drop & we would start over.

This year, her first progress report came back all Fs. We did 2 things, super harsh, but very effective. First, we took away ALL media. She can use her laptop at the library or at school for projects. TV is monitored, family time. There were many histrionics about ruining her social life, about ruining her chance to get into a good college, etc.

The thing with the media helped HER, because she has time management issues & her "crack" was always more appealing than her school work. She has spent years "doing" homework, when really she was on Facebook or watching anime or some such.

We've always said, we want you to succeed. But we've done HS, the grades you earn are YOUR grades. NOT ours. We can't do this for you. You have to put the work in to get the grades you want. But still, I would nag, I would check her assignments, I would judge her work. That caused a power struggle between us. It also gave her an OUT. Oh, I missed that assignment because my mom forgot to tell me about it. Or how my mom told me to do it, didn't work for me. Or they'll let me take that test again, it's no big deal. Her HS lets students re-take tests, but by the time they are Seniors, it's just 1 test per semester. Real Life doesn't give you constant do-overs & too many kids are used to not really having to play their A game.

My backing off, has allowed my daughter to own her own grades. She is now straight As, has been for 6 months. But it was an up hill climb. But she is SO proud of herself. She worked hard at it, she found the help she needed at school, she followed through.

Unfortunately, it took me a while to learn to let her fall, let her pick herself up & just be there in the background, not trying to direct every little thing. When I walk my 7 lbs Chihuahua, I NEVER pick her up when a big scary dog comes by. Picking her up would re-enforce her fear, making her MORE aggressive. Leaving her on the ground, walking calmly by that big scary dog, maybe even stopping & letting them sniff each other, talking to the people, tells her that both of us are safe. It empowers her little doggy brain. Letting my child make these mistakes & then letting HER fix them, empowers her. It shows her that she is capable of handling life & it's decisions.

It's Love & Logic Parenting. It's not always easy, I've cried a lot. BUT right now, I'm feeling so much better about her future, just because she was failing & she was able to recover. She'll go to a local community college for her General Ed this Fall & I really think she will do well, because SHE wants it, not me pushing. Good Luck.

Love and Logic for Teens. Great book. He is not going to be responsible for his work if you're willing to assume responsibility. I agree with the others that traditional school may not be his path. You want him to be empowered to make decisions not depend on you to make sure he's doing everything right. You already completed school. This is his job.

My husband is very bright. He HATED school. He is a free thinker and has worked in many arenas. He invented an ambulance simulator and has installed 3 so far including one at a prestigious state school. Talk to him about where he sees himself in 4 years and develop a plan to get there. By the way, what my husband does for our primary business, the technology wasn't invented at the time he was in high school.

Blessings!
L.

Why is failure not an option just because it's school? Will the world stop turning if he has to repeat a class? Or even a grade?
I did not remind my daughter to do her homework. I did not check her homework unless she asked me to. If she needed help with an assignment, she knew that all she had to do was ask, and I would gladly help, but her homework was HER responsibility, not mine. If she didn't do it, she knew she would get a 0. If she got enough 0's, she knew she would fail the class and have to repeat it, and that I would not rearrange my schedule to take her to and from summer school if she failed a class just from not doing the work. She would have to repeat it the next regular term.

We're having similar difficulty with my 13 yo granddaughter. And her parents have been on her case to get work done. She's on a 504 plan and gets extra help at school. They get frustrated and then angry. And as with you nothing works.

She now lives with me because her parents have developed a negative way of interacting with her and her attitude.

I tell her school work is her responsibility. I ask her Iif she's done her homework in a neutral tone. I feel no responsability for her homework or grades. After a few weeks my feelings have changed. I do get anxious because if she fails her parents are likely to blame me. Blame is their game.

I've become more relaxed with her. I've learned that when she says she doesn't want to talk I back off. At first she said those words in an angry way. She has become more civil.

We're in family therapy and the therapist suggested that ppart of the reason she acts this way is because she feels she has no power. I now focus on acknowledging the positive things she does, ignoring the attitude and not giving much attention when she does minor things that irritate her parents. A few weeks ago I noticed a shift in the way I feel. I've become less connected with the results of my parenting. My attitude is more like the way therapists react. I feel less personally involved in her success or failure. Things are getting better.

Doing this is difficult. I've spent time in therapy for many years to reach this point. I wasn't able to be this way with my daughter. Then I kept feeling it was my responsibility to see that she did well. It's not once they reach the developmental stage of learning to make decisions on how they will relate to life pn their own. The teen years are when we gradually let go so that they make mistakes and suffer the consequences while they are not so serious.

I suggest you let go and fail if thats to be. What is the worst that can happen? I suppose he may not graduate with his class unless he goes to summer school. Try this out for the rest pf this school year.

I agree with the incentives you've mentioned. I would consider not getting hid license as the consequence and would not add other consequences such as restricting electronic devises or grounding. When he doesn't keep up with his work involve him with the decisions to be made so that he will succeed. Truly make school work his responsibility. He probably will make poor choices. Let him. This is how he will learn.

When he fails he will know it was his choices.
Now he's acting out in anger. He is showing that he has power in the only way he knows. A parallel would be that when a child is a toddler we cannot force them to eat or become potty trained. Punishment doesn't work. We have to work with them to help them decide to eat. Frustration and anger
Just causes everyone to be upset.

If he has an IEP in place, he should not be failing at anything. In fact, it's in place to make SURE he succeeds. What's in the IEP? Does he have his classwork, homework and tests modified so he can manage them? There shouldn't be any kind of fighting between you. It should be spelled out and very clear and he has a "team" like you said to make sure he doesn't fail. I would revisit what his issues are and address them with the team at school. Make changes that make him still learn but enough to where he can do it without all the stress. For example, my daughter's IEP says for every class she does every other problem and has extended time for large projects and tests. She also gets very little homework. Her grades are always C's or better (mostly better) and she has always tested at grade level. So something is wrong that this is happening with your son. I hope you can figure it out. Good luck.

When my GS, who was MUCH younger that your son is now, wasn't motivated in school, we put him on Independent Study where he went to the school one day per week for 4 hours. During that time, his instructor would go over the previous week's work and teach the concepts for the current week's assignments. The other days of the week, he went to work with my hubby. Hubby worked him HARD! To the point, that my GS was going to bed at 7:00 p.m. because he was exhausted. One semester of that and he asked to go back to school and has been doing well ever since. We told him if he wasn't going to learn in school so he could get a job using his brain, then he needed to learn and experience working with your back. Then he made his own choice.

There really is nothing you can do other than continue to fight with your child. It's the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." You can't make your son do anything he really doesn't want to do. Sure, you can sit him at a desk with pencil in hand, but you can't make him think and you can't make him write.

I think you just need to acknowledge to your son that no, it didn't work out well, but he will continue to be responsible for his work and if his grades don't improve, put him on independent study and make him get a HARD job. If that doesn't make an impression, then you've done all you can and the consequences are his to suffer.

OMG. You sound so much like me. i have no words of wisdom. i am just thinking, i am not alone. ,My son is about to turn 15yrs and he hasn't been officially been diagnosed, because he is so bright that the doctor thinks that he has borderline ADD. i am taking him to a new therapist, because he would not talk to the other doctor unless it was something he was interested in. he was a A student until 7th grade and from then to now it has been a nightmare. i just told him that he will have to repeat 9th grade. i am tired of fighting with him. i used to get the knots in my stomach and get anxious about going home. But now, i just let him do whatever with his homework. as so long as he is respectful and does what he is told at home. the rest is on him. if he fails and have to repeat 9th grade, then maybe it might make him realise that he does need help.

My mom, way back in the 50's and 60's, was an archetypical helicopter mom. All the way through high school, she would not, could not allow any of her 4 daughters to fail. She was wildly concerned not so much with our future college placement (which she never expected for any of us), but rather with what other people would say about her if we goofed up.

Well, all that control backfired, big time, for all of us in individual ways. Whatever hope I had as a child to choose my future was completely dead by my teens, when my mother doubled-down on the expectations and minute-by-minute control. I never learned how to make a choice for myself, and that included when and how to make my bed, brush my teeth, or do my homework. I had to learn how to manage my time entirely by myself as a young adult. I failed early and often when I left my mother's house. My intentions were good but my self-management skills were nil. Talk about discouragement!

Looking back, I think my one feeble way of trying to exert some control over my own life was this: I learned to fake doing my homework. I'd always show Mother something I did days before. I did enough of my homework between classes to get at least B's in my classes, but if it hadn't been for her wringing the will right out of me, I suspect I would have been more engaged in my own education.

I learned from it, though. I gave my own daughter total responsibility for getting ready for school on time (or not), getting her studies done, asking for help if she needed it, and getting dirty clothing to me for laundering (I had to take them to the laundromat). After experimenting with a few limited fails, she took off flying. She's now a very successful career woman, happy wife and mother, and she still thanks me often for giving her freedom with loving support.

Your situation: While it might have been preferable for this experiment to happen when he was younger and his grades mattered less, you did take a step toward turning your son's responsibility over to him. You did allow him to fail, at least enough so that he recognized he isn't ready for so little oversight. That's a great start! Now you can start tweaking the outcomes by tweaking the input, both yours and his. You might use the fabulous coaching in How To Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk (teen version) to help the two of you to find an agreeable middle ground, with the understanding that the territory will change rapidly over the next few years.

The previous three posters have given fabulous advice. Bouquets to you, ladies. And, JB, I do wish you and your son every success as you feel your way together through his teen years.

I feel your pain on so many levels! As a former teacher, I saw so many kids struggle in my classes and others. We had team meetings, with and without the student, and all those parent conferences. We tried to find an acceptable path for each child, whether that meant making accommodations, giving un-timed exams or giving extensions. We had progress meetings. We figured out new ways to post homework and issue reminders.

As a teacher and as a parent, I also looked at expectations (mine, my husband's, my son's, and those of my students and their families). We put kids into this system of learning in a certain way (or sometimes alternative ways) to master specific subjects and to be able to take standardized tests in those areas, in order to go to college. In many circles, vocational schools are viewed only as places for those kids who can't "make it" in academic settings. So many of us, and many of our kids, see voke schools as "settling" and a place of last resort.

The other thing is, kids just don't have the long-term vision yet. We can ask them what they want to do and what their plans are, but they just don't know. They say "college" or "get a job" or "military" because that's what their friends are talking about. They really have no idea, and because their brains aren't fully developed until around age 25 (particularly the part of the brain that can predict and evaluate consequences), their imaginings really aren't very accurate or realistic. So getting them to do X today to prevent (or allow) Y on the weekend or Z next summer just isn't workable. Even if they agree logically, the teen brain (and especially the teen ADD brain) can't follow through. This leads to unparalleled rebellion and frustration.

It sounds also like you have gone through hell - you've tried things every single way (supervise, don't supervise; nag, don't nag; restrict, don't restrict). So you're finding the same frustrations because you've tried everything and nothing works. It's so hard to know whether trying so many things is a good idea, or whether it muddies the waters because the kid gets confused about what his "rules" are. This is harder in the ADD brain because there's already so much going on in there, all these discussions and rules and consequences just create more chaos in a brain yearning for calm.

I have many friends who have gone through this too. One particular friend, a teacher, was really stuck where you are - her son had ADD and it was coming up to the time to get a driver's license. She was scared to death to have him behind the wheel where his lack of focus could have life-threatening consequences, both for him and for others on the road. That was the line in the sand for her. She had not given him medication because she had seen so many kids not do well on it in her years of teaching. She saw side effects and no effects. She saw kids on a variety of medication types and dosages, and she observed how difficult it was to find the right one (type, dosage, schedule).

She had a lot of connections with people who felt that the medication changed their personalities and they really didn't like who they were, either on the meds or off. She also had tried a lot of supplements but learned how poorly most of them are absorbed (same thing with meds) - despite their cost, most pills are only absorbed around 25%.

When you say you have been through all of these things, I wonder if your son has had the same issues. It's so hard to know what the right one is, what the right amount is. Even if you get it stabilized, the child then grows and gains weight, and that throws everything off. Then come the teen years with hormones, and it's a whole new ball game.

I now work with a lot of people who've gone through this as well, and I'm happy to say that we have found something that works. My son went to college, my friend's son got a driver's license and went to college, and another friend of ours got his personality back after going off his meds and finding something that did work for him. Another woman I know, who has years of experience in the classroom, has 2 sons who've had to find their own path with "academic" vs. "vocational" paths, but who've also found new focus.

For all of us, it has been a combination of things. I can tell you from my professional work in epigenetics and cellular nutrition that all supplements are not the same. There is also new and exciting work being done, with the most well-researched and studied nutrients that actually work on the epigenetic level (that is, the material surrounding the genome which tells each cell's genes what their job is). When there is damage to the epigenome (through environmental causes, lifestyle choices, disease, and other factors), the cells (including but not limited to brain cells) just don't work properly. We've seen tremendous changes in kids and adults with ADD, ADHD, Asperger's, sensory processing issues, OCD, PDD and many other problems in as little as 3 weeks, with continued improvement over the next few months. I usually advise people to have a 90-day framework in their minds, but to hope for evident changes much sooner than that.

So there are many paths open to you, and to your son. All of them have possibilities and challenges. I send you strength and support, as a parent, educator and consultant. I know it's especially hard because you are tutor and your work benefits so many other kids - yet you see your own son struggling. You worry about his success, you worry about his emotional state, and you worry about your relationship with him. I can tell you that my son found his solution, got organized and focused, went to a good college, and now has a successful career (to the extent that someone less than 2 years out of school has success!). But I foresee great things for him. Mostly I am thrilled that he is happy with himself.

EDIT: College is not for everyone never has been. Some need a vocation in life and they make darn good money. Life is a journey to be taken by everyone at their own pace.
-----------
Sometimes that is all you can do is to let them fail. They are then faced with the results from trying or not trying. They are then responsible for figuring out what to do to get better grades.

My grandson is smart and can do the work but did he? No. He wanted to play games and such on electronics. Well he did so got the poor grades and my son is going through the roof about this. As time went on grandson started to see the differences between where he lives with dad (own room/clothes and such) and where he lives with mom (another long story). He has two cousins in their early 20s that are not going to school when they said they would and are working low paying jobs and just getting by. They also live in the same apartment complex and his mom. Somewhere something happened and he, grandson, decided that he had to get his butt in gear and do better in order to live a better life. This past week I asked about grandson's grades and they are now As and Bs with one C in a minor subject. Son backed off on grandson and told him that the chips fall where they may and you will have to figure out real life.

So all is not lost. It is just the feeling that you have as a parent wanting your child to do better than you. Sometimes they can and sometimes they can't but we have to remember that we have done our school time and that this is their time. You can lead a horse to water. You just have to sit by and watch the show play out.

It will work out. It may not be the way you as the parent would have liked for it to be but it will be.

Enjoy him and not fight him or he will revolt. When he is ready he will do what is necessary to sustain him.

the other S.

PS When my son was young he was very active perhaps ADHD before it was acceptable thing (70s). He turned out well after finding out what he needed to do what to care for himself.

Your teen's disabilities may prevent him from using the organizational skills that he needs to get his work done and handed in.

I'm a fan of natural motivators and consequences. So, if he fails any classes and has to repeat them, he'll be in summer school rather than working to save money for a car.

He intends to go to college? With D's and an F? Has his guidance counselor let him know what colleges expect? Not to mention, does he know what's required in college? I know it's a couple of years away, but I wouldn't pay for this type of student to go to college. He can't even hand in his work? My oldest is a college freshman, who has to hand in all of their works and labs, manage add/drop, online registration, book ordering, applying for work study jobs, scheduling meetings with advisor, seeking out scholarship and internship opportunities, on their own. College will NOT tell you that your kid is missing assignments, college will not send you any of their grades, you won't know that your kiddult is failing til they flunk out and show up back home.

I'd suggest a meeting with guidance, to set up a plan where your son is responsible for his work and his grades.

Good luck!